Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

PTH2009

As a nation we got out of it

Lots of graves full now because of the effects

Thanks Government for the future you set

astrofool

Reinfection rages were very low initially but very hard to measure effectively due to lockdown restrictions (chances of being exposed twice was very low). Many hoped it would be a longer lasting immunity but it wasn't (and now we see the data with the unvaccinated and infected having longer term risks of severe disease as well).

The vaccine will end up as part of the early childhood vaccination program along with all the other vaccines we give.

What this also means is that either the vaccines are safe and effective enough for medical professionals to recommend for babies in multiple countries or there is a conspiracy, the middle ground that some posters tried to inhabit is now gone, so they either have to spill on the conspiracy, whatever it may be, or accept they were wrong about vaccines.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256071#Comment_120256071

What leads you to believe these covid vaccines will become part of the early childhood vaccination program? I know NIAC recently approved them for those less than 5 but I thought that was just in the vulnerable etc.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256217#Comment_120256217

They're available to all but highly recommended for those vulnerable to Covid:

https://www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/get-the-vaccine/children/

The early childhood program is updated frequently with new vaccines and older ones dropping off (e.g. BCG) it's inevitable the covid vaccines will be part of it across multiple countries (as said, unless you spin off down the conspiracy rathole and disagree with the medical professionals).

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256225#Comment_120256225

I don't see any signs that it is inevitable that the these covid vaccines will be given to children in Ireland as a matter of routine alongside MMR.

Pointless getting into an argument on the rights and wrongs of that unless it actually happens.

corcaigh07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256225#Comment_120256225

It's ok as your opinion but it's absolutely not inevitable it will be part of a vaccination program for kids here. The medical professionals/countries don't agree on vaccinating under 18s for Covid so no conspiracy involved.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256258#Comment_120256258

There's ~15 vaccines in early childhood and more through the teenage years, as I said, unless SARS-COV2 disappears, it's inevitable:

Vaccines for your child - HSE.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256306#Comment_120256306

It's approved by the medical authorities for 6 months+. You can argue if it's "necessary" (the risk/benefit of the COVID vaccines is still greater than a lot of the other early childhood vaccines, as the loopy person who gave their kids one of the elective and paid for meningitis vaccines found out when trying to argue about the COVID vaccines blowing their argument up) which is what some medical professionals are doing, but can no longer argue against it's safety and effectiveness and be taken seriously.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256413#Comment_120256413

As you said three times now, it's inevitable in your opinion, but you have said little to explain why you are of the opinion that is inevitable.

You mention:

the risk/benefit of the COVID vaccines is still greater than a lot of the other early childhood vaccines

Which other early childhood vaccines do you think show less of a risk/benefit profile than the covid vaccines?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256432#Comment_120256432

Meningitis for one, the chances of encountering meningitis and having a severe reaction requiring hospitalisation per age group is less than encountering SARS-COV2 and having a severe reaction (I had posted the numbers over in the vaccines thread when said person had their argument blown up for them if you want to do some research/digging).

The first step was the approval and roll out, in 3-4 years time, I'd be surprised if they're not part of the program.

But I get the feeling that the anti-vaxxers on here are just sad they can't argue (coherently at least) against the safety and effectiveness of the COVID vaccines.

hometruths, you don't have to get obsessed and rathole on all of my vaccine posts either (I have noticed).

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256447#Comment_120256447

The first step was the approval and roll out, in 3-4 years time, I'd be surprised if they're not part of the program.

And I'd be surprised if they are part of the program, unless they show a marked improvement in effectiveness.

I'm far from obsessed and ratholing, whatever that is, on your posts. I would have queried any poster who claimed that babies will be routinely vaccinated against covid in the same program as the MMR vaccines for example, because I think it is totally absurd.

But as we are both just swapping opinions about what is likely or unlikely to occur in the future, we can agree to disagree. That ought to alleviate your concern that I am obsessing and ratholing on your posts. Unless of course you're just trolling.

corcaigh07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256447#Comment_120256447

Using emotive words like anti vax, obsessed and rathole (?) doesn't make your opinion more valid.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256693#Comment_120256693

Not, but explaining that the risk/reward of the COVID vaccines is greater than other childhood vaccines we administer routinely and that medical professionals have approved the safe and effective vaccines for 6 month+ olds does.

Don't Chute!

..

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256447#Comment_120256447

Who are these anti-vaxxers on here? Could you name some please?

Starmix66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256832#Comment_120256832

Don't forget the conspiracy theorists and anti-knowlegists. There have been some prize descriptions used on these forums.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256225#Comment_120256225

I wouldn't agree that it's inevitable or even probable. Is the flu vaccine automatically given to children?

ceadaoin.

The vast majority of parents have rejected these shots for their kids. Where they are available for infants, barely anyone has chosen them. Adding them to the childhood schedule will have the additional effect of turning some people off all vaccines. It's already happening. public health authorities have damaged trust by pushing these shots so hard on everyone rather than just focusing on those who actually would benefit from them , now people are questioning other vaccines too and childhood vaccination rates are declining in a lot of places. Great job guys.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258715#Comment_120258715

Rubbish. Vaccination rates startes dropping with anti vax propaganda and misinformation like Andrew Wakefield scaremongring.

In case you hadnt noticed the unprecedented anti vax campaign of which you are an active participant?

ceadaoin.

It's not rubbish. Many places have seen a drop specifically in 2021/2022. For example

https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2022/childhood-vaccinations-2021-22

I'm not part of any "campaign". Stop being ridiculous. And I'm not an anti vaxxer either, my child is up to date on all of her standard childhood shots. Do you agree that the statistics show that parents have widely rejected these shots for their young kids? What effect do you think trying to force it will have?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258895#Comment_120258895

There was an unprecedented anti vac campaign running. Are you going to pretend that had no impact?

At every opportunity you try to undermine confidence in vaccines on the flimsiest of pretexts and evidence - see the deliberate misrepresentation above about natural immunity.

Then you ask questions about why vaccine rates are dropping?

Look in the mirror.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120255914#Comment_120255914

Absolute boll&x as usual from some on this thread.

Thank you for your most inciteful post.

ceadaoin.

I'm a person expressing my opinions on a little Irish message board that I've been a part of for 10+ years fgs, not a cog in some kind of global organized campaign to "undermine" vaccines. And you label people who don't want the COVID shot as conspiracy theorists? Lol.

I'll ask again - Do you agree that the statistics show that parents have widely rejected these shots for their young kids? What effect do you think trying to force it will have?

Look in the mirror indeed

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259119#Comment_120259119

I stand over my comments. You consistently misrepresent or exaggerate evidence to undermine confidence in vaccines.

Here again with the misrepresentation.

Where did I label people who dont want to be vaccinated as conspiracy theorists merely for that? Well? It is your accusation. Point me to the exact post and line. You wont be able to. Another example of a deceptive deliberate misrepresentation.

Multiple times on this thread you have thrown out similar accusations and been unable to support it. What was that line from Shakespeare about protesting too much?

Nobody is forcing covid vaccinations on young kids here or in UK. Another misrepresentation by you.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258715#Comment_120258715

Exactly, that's why I think the idea of these covid vaccines being included as routine with MMR vaccines for kids is absurd. Government/NIAC/HSE etc are not that stupid.

If they tried that, the result would be the uptake of MMR vaccinations in kids would decline rapidly. Nobody with any sense believes that the benefits of potential increased covid vaccines in toddlers outweighs the risks of potential declining MMR vaccines in toddlers.

Total madness to try and argue otherwise.

And like you, despite being a supposed anti-vaxxer, I happily signed off on a second dose of MMR, and polio, pertussis etc vaccinations without a second thought for my four year old less than two weeks ago.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259102#Comment_120259102

Sorry I’ll be more polite.

Your first section of text in bold is absolute nonsense and I put link to an article explaining that.

You then make defence to a paper in the journal ‘Cell’ and say there are some startling statements in it. In case you didn’t read the article , one of the statements includes;

‘During the COVID-19 pandemic, the rapid development and deployment of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines has saved innumerable lives…’

So I suppose I should really apologise and actually thank you for posting links to articles that certainly consider the limitations of the Covid vaccine but also absolutely advocate for how important they were.

Thanks for your (possibly inadvertent) pro vaccine advocacy.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259252#Comment_120259252

The anti vax thing is quite complex. The pre covid anti vax phenomenon has no link to the covid vax one. The pre covid anti vax thing was strangely led by educated, intelligent middle class people. The anti covid vaccine crowd seem to me to be from a much broader spectrum of society.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259290#Comment_120259290

HPV was added recently which is arguably more controversial than the COVID vaccines (for the average person) as it doesn't provide any direct benefit to ~50% of the population.

The COVID vaccine is unlike the flu vaccine in they provide (at least so far) ongoing high efficacy levels against severe infection regardless of variant (whereas flu tends to be variant specific, at least for now), 5-11 year olds have only had the 2 initial jabs recommended, no boosters (unless at risk/immunocompromised), under 16 have only had a single booster vs. adults who would have had 4 doses by now.

Parents can also opt out of specific vaccines (though with ~90%+ of the population vaccinated against SARS-COV2, this won't really be a thing for the vast majority).

But it's good we've left the safe and effective talk behind and are now concentrating on rollout and ongoing programs and no one has disagreed with the medical professionals in multiple countries approving the rollout for younger cohorts (arguments have purely been about risk/reward for this age group).

vatnikbanderite

Yells about covid vaccination...goes and gets flu vaccination without hesitation

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259659#Comment_120259659

apples and oranges...

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120259283#Comment_120259283

I posted the paper and a commentary on it for information purposes.

You can pick and choose what you emphasise from that paper as you wish as the other link I provided did.

Like everything else in the last few years it is open to bias and interpretation as well as cherry picking.

For me the days of being sure of anything or anybody are gone.

I guess I have become a sceptic!

(seems that makes me an antivaxer and also an anti-antivaxer)