Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

NIMAN

I don't understand the 2 week delay at all.

So in 2 weeks time, the Delta variant won't be an issue? But it is now?

If anything, it will be more hyped up and worrying in 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks.
what about the next variant after Delta?

I can see more delays to reopening, its not just this one. Brace yourselves.

namloc1980

zebastein wrote: »

Did Denmark open the vaccination to everyone or decided like Ireland to give it only to some age ranges in priority ?
That is a problem of fairness: if you want to give privileges to vaccinated people. everybody should have the option to be vaccinated in a first place. It is not the case in Ireland.

In Denmark unvaccinated can also get the coronapas with a negative rapid antigen test (which of course NPHET have an ideological objection to). However here it seems NPHET are recommending a vaccine pass only i.e. no vaccine, no entry. Completely uncharted territory.

VinLieger

lawred2 wrote: »

Whatever about all that - it's simply not workable. You are now putting the onus on bar staff to enforce a type of discrimination.

Not to mention the vast majority of wait or bar staff wont be vaccinated yet

Sweet.Science

facehugger99 wrote: »

There's a distinct lack of the usual Government clappy-seals on the thread since the leak last night - I wonder have even the slow lads in class figured out what some of us did 15 months ago?

Unfortunately in that time, individual businesses and entire sectors have been decimated. We are on course for 250million of debt by the year end. What that means in real terms is sobering - we have crippled ourselves from being able to borrow our way out of the next recession and we have needlessly exposed ourselves to any raising of interests rates.

What have we gained for all this - **** all. With better management of hospitals and nursing homes we could have seen the same results for a tiny fraction of the costs. The Irish have exposed themselves as one of the most docile and easily controlled people on the planet.

We will all pay the price for this in the coming years - our kids will be still paying for this when they reach maturity.

Time to get our from under then beds and wake up to what's been done to the country

I agree . However , its 250 billion of debt.

facehugger99

Deleted User wrote: »

Further lockdowns, ridiculous levels of debt
MNC leaving (maybe), SF likely to win the next election and increase the majority of our taxes. It’s going to be a long few years!

I generally would have been supportive of restrictions up until the last few months but this new forecast is just plain ridiculous unless NPHET know more than the rest of the worlds scientists.

This is why we ended up where we are now folks.

VinLieger

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't understand the 2 week delay at all.

So in 2 weeks time, the Delta variant won't be an issue? But it is now?

If anything, it will be more hyped up and worrying in 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks.

I can see more delays to reopening, its not just this one. Brace yourselves.

Yup on all the reports i heard this morning they were saying NPHET advising "weeks" and deffinitely implying that meant more than 2

KrustyUCC

For NPHETs model to be right we would see 23.58 deaths a day over July, August and September or 723 deaths per month

Where in hell they have come up with those figures nobody knows

the kelt

Red Silurian wrote: »

There will be undoubtedly demonstrations, but think about what you are protesting... That you can't drink inside a pub... I mean... Is it that big a deal?

After all this time do you still think its just about "not being able to go for a pint"

Sweet Jesus!!

Ballynally

It seems clear to me that NPHET's worse case scenario is a misnomer.
It can not be based on a data analysis. Instead, it looks like a multiplier using a single nr with no other parameters interacting.
It can not be other than deliberately misleading knowing what we know from the UK and other places. It is either incredibly stupid to present this 'model' or it is actually a smart way of injecting more fear into society, via the media's uptake. It is extremely hard to reject the idea of an agenda behind it.
It might become a pivital moment for the government and could set up a series of backlash moments.

Red Silurian

sp00k wrote: »

Honestly, some people... I'm not protesting 'not being able to drink inside a pub'. I'm protesting the decimation of livelihoods across the country.

So you're protesting against the virus?

Fitz*

funnydoggy wrote: »

Socially distant seats. You book a seat (or a few seats) and they lock seats around you so you aren't near anybody.


Increased ventilation too I'd assume.

Wonder if cinemas can start serving meals, as you know, it's safe to eat inside there but not safe to eat inside a restaurant apparently.

Or maybe Pennys will start serving meals & drinks. As they don't even need social distancing or numbers restrictions inside. Because inside Pennys is safe but pubs are not.

lawred2

Red Silurian wrote: »

There will be undoubtedly demonstrations, but think about what you are protesting... That you can't drink inside a pub... I mean... Is it that big a deal?

Maybe you should have a think

Sobit1964

Red Silurian wrote: »

So you're protesting against the virus?

Again - thats not what people are protesting.

seamus

VinLieger wrote: »

Not to mention the vast majority of wait or bar staff wont be vaccinated yet

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Billgirlylegs

eskimohunt wrote: »

I've always loathed that phrase.

Science tells you the facts, not what ought to be done with those facts.

There are all manner of potential interpretations and actions, which should be done by politicians who must consider all society and economic factors, and not by NPHET who have only a one dimensional interpretation of how to act.

Scientists who use the phrase "following the science...", as if there is only one possible interpretation, are actually being very much anti-scientific in their conclusions.

Agreed.

Scientific findings are regularly disproven.
Scientific "facts" are merely one person's opinion.
There is an old joke about scientists using pencil to document research findings - easily erased once their "facts" are later disproved.
There is a radio program where a famous scientistic consistently waffles about "the science changes", you see.

namloc1980

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't understand the 2 week delay at all.

So in 2 weeks time, the Delta variant won't be an issue? But it is now?

If anything, it will be more hyped up and worrying in 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks.
what about the next variant after Delta?

I can see more delays to reopening, its not just this one. Brace yourselves.

Well they are projecting total doom in August and September and end of the world stuff come January. As you say brace yourselves for a horribly restricted winter. NPHET have the country firmly in their grip.

I like many others thought we'd be in a brilliant place by now and we are, millions vaccinated (yes), very low number in hospital and ICU (yes), stable and low case numbers (yes). We've hit all the metrics and yet he we are with absolute doom and gloom from NPHET worse than anything that's come before and government lapping it up and to hell with the economic consequences. :mad::mad:

Sobit1964

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Plenty of evidence that vaccinated, double jabbed or not can and do spread the virus.

VinLieger

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

But vaccinated people can still spread it.

agoodpunt

Uk look at it very differently the are already more open than us,
Here's another way of putting it: based on recent trends, cases of COVID-19 on 19 July could be at around two thirds of the levels they peaked at in the winter. But, on the same trends, hospitalisations could be barely more than a tenth of the winter peak (they were running at over 4,000 a day in early January).

Hurrache

titan18 wrote: »

Tbh, when they're giving advice based off ridiculous data, there's a serious question as to what their purpose is. Either they can stand over that data or they can't, and if they can't, their advice is worthless tbh and there's no need for them.

The question as to what their purpose is is not the issue, we know their purpose and it's a necessity, there's a reason for the existence of such organisations the world over.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

If you're only letting vaccinated people inside, then the staff aren't being put at any extra risk. The staff are all milling around indoors together as it is.

Yeah, but its morally reprenhesible to have staff working in bars & restaurants that they themselves aren't allowed to attend in their spare time due to being of the younger population who have been put bottom of the list to receive vaccines for a virus as they are by far and away the least vulnerable to it.


There's a logic gap in here somewhere. The virus barely affects young people so bottom of the list for vaccines, but when they're the only ones not vaccinated they still can't live their lives freely, unless of course they're needed to serve you food and drink.

Its frankly disgusting and I'd be shocked if it happens

zebastein

Red Silurian wrote: »

There will be undoubtedly demonstrations, but think about what you are protesting... That you can't drink inside a pub... I mean... Is it that big a deal?

Or that the people of a country have their freedom restricted, not because of an increasing death number, not because of an increasing hospitalization number, not because of an increase case numbers, but because of a "potential".

So this is not based on facts anymore, not an health emergency but politics, because "potential" and "predictions" are politics. They are based on assumptions made by a single group of people. How is it different to say "if we open the pubs, we will have a big wave of deaths" than any regular politician that says "if we tax the companies, we will have a massive unemployement rate because companies will leave Ireland". These are opinions, one scenario amongst other scenarios. You support them or you don't but usually there is an opposition and a vote.

So your freedom, not only to go to the pub but to meet indoor, to organize events indoor, to go to the swimming pool ... is restricted because someone said there is a threat.

When a dictatorship in a foreign government restricts the rights of their people, like if they prevent them from demonstrating in the street for reasons of safety, we condemn them. "They use safety as an excuse to push their own political agenda". How is it different here ?

mojesius

The opposition parties are a fcuking joke in all this as well. Not a whimper from them about the need to reopen now. Or did I miss something among the scaremongering from NPHET the last few days?

I feel so sorry for all the business owners whose doors remain shut and debt piling up.

seamus

VinLieger wrote: »

But vaccinated people can still spread it.

At considerably lower rates though, we know that. The unvaccinated staff pose a graver risk to eachother than vaccinated customers do.

Sobit1964

Hurrache wrote: »

The question as to what their purpose is is not the issue, we know their purpose and it's a necessity, there's a reason for the existence of such organisations the world over.

Wrong. When they are so demonstrably bad at their job - there is most certainly a question as to their purpose.

Gael23

Plan to only allow vaccinated dine indoors looks to be illegal under the equality act

Hurrache

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Wrong. When they are so demonstrably bad at their job - there is most certainly a question as to their purpose.

No, there is no question as to their purpose.

We've ****ty governments and state bodies in the past, did we go all hysterical and abolish the notion of a government and live in chaos since?

Nope, it's dumb idea to try justify the abandonment.

namloc1980

mojesius wrote: »

The opposition parties are a fcuking joke in all this as well. Not a whimper from them about the need to reopen now. Or did I miss something among the scaremongering from NPHET the last few days?

I feel so sorry for all the business owners whose doors remain shut and debt piling up.

On this. The Banks have been showing massive levels of forbearance for the last year or so especially on business loans. Bad debts are piling up on Bank's balance sheets and those are going to come home to roost at some point as businesses are being forced to closure. That's another bill that will be presented to the taxpayer to pay.

seamus

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Wrong. When they are so demonstrably bad at their job - there is most certainly a question as to their purpose.

Considering the Republic has in fact done incredibly well in the local geographical region in terms of the impact of this virus, it seems at best misinformed to say that NPHET are "bad" at their job.

They've certainly made a few missteps; even dropped a couple of clangers. But we've managed to get through this with a few scorch marks while our neighbour's house was a towering inferno. Credit where credit is due.

Surprise, surprise!

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1409751053042597891