Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Income and excise tax haul point to 'quick rebound' from Covid-19 slump

April exchequer returns show the Government collected €16.1bn overall tax revenues during the first four months of the year – up by more than €650m from a year ago

Income tax receipts were again a star performer, with receipts up by €470m in the year to almost €8bn. Excise duties, which rose by €100m to almost €1.7bn over the same period, also helped the revenue haul

With the economy gradually reopening, we can expect income tax receipts to remain resilient for the rest of the year. Indeed, income tax looks set to provide an unexpected surplus by year-end.

The April exchequer figures were "spectacular" given the large sections of the economy that are still locked down, said Fergal O'Brien, director of policy and public affairs at business group Ibec. "They bode well for a quick rebound once all the restrictions are lifted," he said

I've been led to believe it's time to get off the island, because if the potato fails we are doomed?

Something not right here.

KanyeSouthEast

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sun-holidays-could-be-off-the-cards-if-thenumber-oftravel-related-covid-cases-continues-to-climb-40392501.html

Beanybabog

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G7mOX7NE8ZI&feature=youtu.be

This is brilliant.

Boggles

Fandymo wrote: »

Facial expressions are a massive communication tool. That is a fact.

You should try have a conversation with someone just using facial twitches today, let me know how you get on.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

What are or will be the effects of the debt added Fintan?

In your own words..

I’ve been wrong about debt, I got a great education on debt on this thread last night.

Apparently debt should be the goal, spending money you don’t have is the best option for the future.

Really can’t understand why we actually pay income tax in this country, surely we just abolish it and borrow the funds required.

Sobit1964

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’ve been wrong about debt, I got a great education on debt on this thread last night.

Apparently debt should be the goal, spending money you don’t have is the best option for the future.

Really can’t understand why we actually pay income tax in this country, surely we just abolish it and borrow the funds required.

Yay printing press goes BRRRRRRRRR.

https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/status/1389630970614198279

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Apparently debt should be the goal, spending money you don’t have is the best option for the future.

Nope for the present, you know during a once in a generation pandemic all that, the future based on links provided looks like it will be white hot.

But if you could address the question please.

What are or will be the effects of the debt added Fintan?

OwenM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’ve been wrong about debt, I got a great education on debt on this thread last night.

Apparently debt should be the goal, spending money you don’t have is the best option for the future.

Really can’t understand why we actually pay income tax in this country, surely we just abolish it and borrow the funds required.

Inflation, Eurozone inflation.

When it picks back up the ECB will raise rates and the magic money tree dies.

Yes, you can stem the tide of debt forever with economic growth if you can borrow at less than 1% forever but if (when) the ECB are charging 3.5% then it's hard, what's even harder is convincing the markets that you can. That's when the billions spent on PUP and other reliefs won't seem like such a great idea.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’ve been wrong about debt, I got a great education on debt on this thread last night.

Apparently debt should be the goal, spending money you don’t have is the best option for the future.

Really can’t understand why we actually pay income tax in this country, surely we just abolish it and borrow the funds required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

Its not the local chipper we are talking about

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

Inflation, Eurozone inflation.

When it picks back up the ECB will raise rates and the magic money tree dies.

Yes, you can stem the tide of debt forever with economic growth if you can borrow at less than 1% forever but if (when) the ECB are charging 3.5% then it's hard, what's even harder is convincing the markets that you can. That's when the billions spent on PUP and other reliefs won't seem like such a great idea.

When will that be?

There seems to a cohort of people on here who thinks they could have navigated the pandemic without borrowing and achieved a surplus.

I'd love to know how?

Ignore it, it's just a flu brah economics I'm guessing.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

When will that be?

There seems to a cohort of people on here who thinks they could have navigated the pandemic without borrowing and achieved a surplus.

I'd love to know how?

Ignore it, it's just a flu brah economics I'm guessing.

Not only did Ireland start off Covid with the highest level of debt in Europe they also added the most since

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

Inflation, Eurozone inflation.

When it picks back up the ECB will raise rates and the magic money tree dies.

Yes, you can stem the tide of debt forever with economic growth if you can borrow at less than 1% forever but if (when) the ECB are charging 3.5% then it's hard, what's even harder is convincing the markets that you can. That's when the billions spent on PUP and other reliefs won't seem like such a great idea.

Lets not borrow to repair the leaky roof because, you know, we will have to pay it back. Instead let it get worse until the whole house is destroyed.

Procyclical monetary policy is a dead duck

OwenM

Boggles wrote: »

When will that be?

Last time was 2008, before that was 2000. I can't tell you when, no more than you can say it won't happen.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Not only did Ireland start off Covid with the highest level of debt in Europe they also added the most since

Before Covid having one of the highest debt levels in Europe we also had one of the fastest growing economies, and by the looks of the data released yesterday will continue to do.

So again, third time.

What are or will be the effects of the debt added Fintan?

Come on now Fintan, you have declared on here the health service will collapse in June, large swathes of public sector workers will be made unemployed and the debt will "cripple the nation".

Time to start explaining these doom mongering prophecies?

OwenM

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets not borrow to repair the leaky roof because, you know, we will have to pay it back.

That's hilarious, if only we were fixing roofs or building high speed rail lines with that money.

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

Last time was 2008, before that was 2000. I can't tell you when, no more than you can say it won't happen.

I didn't speculate either way, you did.

So it's not really in anyones interest to jack up the rates to 3-4%, is it?

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

That's hilarious, if only we were fixing roofs or building high speed rail lines with that money.

10 billion to be spent on capital projects this year.

If it makes people sleep better, pretend we borrowed that money.

facehugger99

Boggles wrote: »

When will that be?

There seems to a cohort of people on here who thinks they could have navigated the pandemic without borrowing and achieved a surplus.

I'd love to know how?

Ignore it, it's just a flu brah economics I'm guessing.

We certainly could have navigated it without taking on tens of billions of additional debt. So many industries and jobs closed down for no good reason. Just to protect politicians from having to take any accountability.

Those tens of billions will have to be paid back and if you think interest rates will stay this low with the money printing presses running 24/7, then you need to do a bit of research in to basic economics.

Borrowing is going to get a whole lot more expensive. Runaway inflation is a deep-rooted fear in Europe and Germany in particular . The ECB will hike rates at the first sniff - my bet is in 12-18 months and then steadily after that.

Then we'll see the true cost of all the unnecessary debt as services are cut and taxes are raised to attempt to reign in borrowings.

I wonder where all the lockdown-cheerleaders will be when that happens?

Boggles

facehugger99 wrote: »

We certainly could have navigated it without taking on tens of billions of additional debt.

So how much would you have borrowed?

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

That's hilarious, if only we were fixing roofs or building high speed rail lines with that money.

That's hilarious, because somehow you seem to believe that an analogy is a literal statement because you chose to cut of the second half.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets not borrow to repair the leaky roof because, you know, we will have to pay it back. Instead let it get worse until the whole house is destroyed.

Procyclical monetary policy is a dead duck

We certainly were not borrowing for repairs

We were borrowing solely to keep the lights on because we shut countless businesses unnecessarily for months on end

The rest of Europe were reopening business this time last year that we are reopening next month

brickster69

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Yay printing press goes BRRRRRRRRR.

https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/status/1389630970614198279

I thought you could only put assets on a balance sheet :pac::pac:

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Before Covid having one of the highest debt levels in Europe we also had one of the fastest growing economies, and by the looks of the data released yesterday will continue to do.

So again, third time.



Come on now Fintan, you have declared on here the health service will collapse in June, large swathes of public sector workers will be made unemployed and the debt will "cripple the nation".

Time to start explaining these doom mongering prophecies?

I never said the health service would collapse, quite the opposite, that was your justification for handing out fines on beaches

You continue to use GDP as a metric for Ireland’s economic performance

No point getting involved in a discussion with someone who persists with that metric

OwenM

Boggles wrote: »

I didn't speculate either way, you did.

So it's not really in anyones interest to jack up the rates to 3-4%, is it?

So you agree it will happen at some stage, and yes it's not in anyones interest to jack rates up, but the Irish government and the central bank will have exactly f*ck all say in the matter when the time comes.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I never said the health service would collapse, quite the opposite, that was your justification for handing out fines on beaches

Ahh you did.

FintanMcluskey wrote:

The country is in ruins, it’s currently masked behind money that’s not ours being borrowed at a rate never seen before

When the exchequer can’t fund the health service and pay wages of public servants in a few months I imagine a few of ye will wonder how when our imaginary GDP is so strong.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You continue to use GDP as a metric for Ireland’s economic performance

Haven't mentioned GDP.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No point getting involved in a discussion with someone who persists with that metric

Now that we have established I didn't do that, will you now explain your doom day prophecies?

FintanMcluskey

For a risk averse country like Ireland we sure have no problem frivolously spending money that we don’t have

Slow and cautious but no problem turning into the wolf of Wall Street when it comes to money

Boggles

OwenM wrote: »

So you agree it will happen at some stage, and yes it's not in anyones interest to jack rates up, but the Irish government and the central bank will have exactly f*ck all say in the matter when the time comes.

Nope. Can't see how you garnered that from anything I said.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

For a risk averse country like Ireland we sure have no problem frivolously spending money that we don’t have

Slow and cautious but no problem turning into the wolf of Wall Street when it comes to money

Risk - Reward.

I'll just post this again, just in case you missed it.

Income and excise tax haul point to 'quick rebound' from Covid-19 slump

April exchequer returns show the Government collected €16.1bn overall tax revenues during the first four months of the year – up by more than €650m from a year ago

Income tax receipts were again a star performer, with receipts up by €470m in the year to almost €8bn. Excise duties, which rose by €100m to almost €1.7bn over the same period, also helped the revenue haul

With the economy gradually reopening, we can expect income tax receipts to remain resilient for the rest of the year. Indeed, income tax looks set to provide an unexpected surplus by year-end.

The April exchequer figures were "spectacular" given the large sections of the economy that are still locked down, said Fergal O'Brien, director of policy and public affairs at business group Ibec. "They bode well for a quick rebound once all the restrictions are lifted," he said

I've been led to believe it's time to get off the island, because if the potato fails we are doomed?

Something not right here.

facehugger99

Boggles wrote: »

So how much would you have borrowed?

Why don't you work it out?

Add up what we borrowed then deduct all the lost VAT, PAYE and PRSI from keeping industries like non-essential retail, construction, hospitality, barbers etc closed down unnecessarily for months on end.

Then add in all the bribes, sorry I mean PUP payments and 'business supports' you had to pay these people not to work and pay taxes.

See what figure you come up with and get back to us.

Then you can tell us how much you would have borrowed - wait, I think I already know this one - is it exactly how much the Government did borrow?

I'm right aren't I?

Boggles

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why don't you work it out?

Add up what we borrowed then deduct all the lost VAT, PAYE and PRSI from keeping industries like non-essential retail, construction, hospitality, barbers etc closed down unnecessarily for months on end.

Then add in all the bribes, sorry I mean PUP payments and 'business supports' you had to pay these people not to work and pay taxes.

See what figure you come up with and get back to us.

Then you can tell us how much you would have borrowed - wait, I think I already know this one - is it exactly how much the Government did borrow?

I'm right aren't I?

So you wouldn't have borrowed anything, and balanced the books?

Please do explain how.

Let me get a pencil.