Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

speckle wrote: »

Yes..possibly even better

Based on?

NIAC Fanboy

Boggles wrote: »

Based on?

Based on the fact that most of the stuff that closed made no odds anyway.

Supermarkets have been rammed for over a year, opening non essential would have spread the crowds even better.

15 outside pubs would be safer than uncontrolled sheebeens.

Construction is pretty safe, and all the builders were driven into nixers mainly in private houses, which is higher risk.

Edit....and level 5 created pent up demand at Christmas and people went mental

gozunda

PTH2009 wrote: »

Pre covid nobody cared really about how safe the building of the pub is and I don't think many will care now

I think you'll find they do - planning regs / health and safety regs etc etc

And to be fair - any temporary structure outdoors is going to be adversely affected by weather conditions such as high winds and torrential downpours.

But of course as we live in a beautiful Mediterranean climate that never has any of the above - we'll be grand sur...

I think we're really getting down to the bottom of the barrel of things to complain about tbh.

speckle

Human nature basic pyschology 101..the increase came around Xmas with a pent up pyschological demand to meet up with family and friends from too tight restrictions in the period before the Xmas relaxation.

For example interestly I am thinking of one particular nursing home were upto 14 staff tested positive just after Xmas and none of the residents(who had been upping the vit D amongst other preventative measures including good new hygiene/infection control protocols)who were tested negative twice each... Note this is not to blame staff for just being human and I am sure it happened with people in other occupations.

I think Nephet are missing out on knowledge of basic human pyschology...as we have just seen again recently.

normanoffside

Dublin embracing the idea of an outdoor summer by fencing off more amenities.

https://twitter.com/NellydaSilla/status/1400080281873362956

Meanwhile Tony shows no remorse for his tweeting by simply asking the Journalist 'where you there'?

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1400090363495337986

NIAC Fanboy

normanoffside wrote: »

Dublin embracing the idea of an outdoor summer by fencing off more amenities.

https://twitter.com/NellydaSilla/status/1400080281873362956

Meanwhile Tony shows no remorse for his tweeting by simply asking the Journalist 'where you there'?

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1400090363495337986

Christ Tony loves the sound of his own voice.

Crowds have been gathering outdoors for months with no noticeable increase in cases. The ul party, the salthill party, the list is endless.

GT89

normanoffside wrote: »

Dublin embracing the idea of an outdoor summer by fencing off more amenities.

Insanity

normanoffside

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Christ Tony loves the sound of his own voice.

Crowds have been gathering outdoors for months with no noticeable increase in cases. The ul party, the salthill party, the list is endless.

Yes but he saw it this time and made sure the Gardai snapped into action on his instruction.

Here is actual footage of Tony driving by to inspect the next day.

https://twitter.com/jackomeara12/status/1399470520089944071

Windmill100000

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Based on the fact that most of the stuff that closed made no odds anyway.

Supermarkets have been rammed for over a year, opening non essential would have spread the crowds even better.

15 outside pubs would be safer than uncontrolled sheebeens.

Construction is pretty safe, and all the builders were driven into nixers mainly in private houses, which is higher risk.

Edit....and level 5 created pent up demand at Christmas and people went mental

I never saw a supermarket rammed. Not once. During busy times my local Dunnes used a one in, one out policy.

I don't believe there were loads of uncontrolled shebeens either. It was a risky undertaking to engage in for the sake of pints among a small group of people.

speckle

Jokingly but I wonder...could someone in particular ...you know who/fill the blank...be detained under the health act as a danger to others? The legislation applies equally to every citizen..people in places of power are meant to follow the science with restrictions balanced with all other health and welfare considerations and I am definetly not seeing that balance anymore ...if really ever after last spring.

Micky 32

Could be worse lads :pac: :

https://twitter.com/essexpr/status/1400129248095047684?s=21

Boggles

speckle wrote: »

Human nature basic pyschology 101..the increase came around Xmas with a pent up pyschological demand to meet up with family and friends from too tight restrictions in the period before the Xmas relaxation.

Christmas has always pent up demand, it's why it is always the busiest time of the year.

Common Sense 101.

speckle wrote: »

For example interestly I am thinking of one particular nursing home were upto 14 staff tested positive just after Xmas and none of the residents(who had been upping the vit D amongst other preventative measures including good new hygiene/infection control protocols)who were tested negative twice each... Note this is not to blame staff for just being human and I am sure it happened with people in other occupations.

Which nursing home?

I did google, this came up.

Kerry nursing home where nine died due to Covid-19 to close today

Also are you suggesting Vitamin D prevents 100% infection?

speckle wrote: »

I think Nephet are missing out on knowledge of basic human pyschology...as we have just seen again recently.

NPHET have a whole team of behavioral scientists at their disposal.

So again, how would Kerry have done better with Schools completely open, retail, hospitality open somewhat, etc throughout the whole pandemic.

People wouldn't have came home or visited each other at Christmas is just not realistic or a sound basis for your very meaty claim.

Boggles

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Based on the fact that most of the stuff that closed made no odds anyway.

Supermarkets have been rammed for over a year, opening non essential would have spread the crowds even better.

15 outside pubs would be safer than uncontrolled sheebeens.

Construction is pretty safe, and all the builders were driven into nixers mainly in private houses, which is higher risk.

Edit....and level 5 created pent up demand at Christmas and people went mental

You have the stats from Kerry on spread from sheebeens, nixers and "rammed" supermarkets?

NIAC Fanboy

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I never saw a supermarket rammed. Not once. During busy times my local Dunnes used a one in, one out policy.

I don't believe there were loads of uncontrolled shebeens either. It was a risky undertaking to engage in for the sake of pints among a small group of people.

Use whatever definition of rammed you want and apply it to non essential so. Either way it would have been more sensible to leave it open rather than create pent up demand when it came to Christmas shopping.

Loads of shebeens were busted by the guards, and documented by the media.

God knows how many more went on without being detected, I know of many myself, and also house parties etc. etc.

Whatsisname

Micky 32 wrote: »

Could be worse lads :pac: :

https://twitter.com/essexpr/status/1400129248095047684?s=21

Went away to a hotel in Chester for the bank holiday here in England. Ordered a drink at the bar, bar man couldn’t hand it across the bar to me so he walked out from behind it and put it on the table next to me. I swear I’m being punk’d sometimes.

speckle

Boggles wrote: »

Christmas has always pent up demand, it's why it is always the busiest time of the year.

Common Sense 101.




Which nursing home?

I did google, this came up.

Kerry nursing home where nine died due to Covid-19 to close today

Also are you suggesting Vitamin D prevents 100% infection?



NPHET have a whole team of behavioral scientists at their disposal.

So again, how would Kerry have done better with Schools completely open, retail, hospitality open somewhat, etc throughout the whole pandemic.

People wouldn't have came home or visited each other at Christmas is just not realistic or a sound basis for your very meaty claim.

awwh come on now Boggles common sense 101 would tell you the pent up demand last Xmas was like no other maybe your trying to wind me up?

No that is not the nursing home I was referring to..there was also circa the same number of deaths in one community hospital..just incase you want to looking ..yet the local undertakers in kerry were no busier overall then previous years...

You avoided the c50 deaths out of 147,707 people with a higher than average elderly population. May the all rest in peace.

I suggested both vitamin D along with other health regimes keeping your immune system as good as it can be along with proper infection control protocols..you left that last bit out again..like you did with the deaths per county in your reply

Nphets behavioural/cognitive scientists have to narrow a focus when it comes to human pyschology..they could have done with a wider range of people from the field of pyschology.

yes as pointed out above by re retail other posters..yes re schools the kids in primary in particular in kerry they all live near each other and intereact anyway in classroom bubbles even outside of school... the secondary school kids yes also but with a supervised lunch hour.

Hospitality outdoor with guidelines...cases numbers very low... over winter alot of hospitality hotels/bnb /air bnb shuts down there anyway. Did you know Dingle had a fun fair open all summer?

The only exception... but it would not have gone ahead under level 3 was the likes of the rose /kilarney bike festivals etc and I would agree with that. Did you know the INEC had the early test gigs also..no problem.

I never claimed thst people would not have come home for Xmas in my original post.. but certainly more came this year as they had not seen their family or friends in ages. which ties in with the harsh travel restrictions all year before that..and that pressure concluded with the cases going up higher for the first time for a short while in the whole long pandemic..yet they still have the lowest or second lowest mortality rate..even during level 3...you explain that.

Windmill100000

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Use whatever definition of rammed you want and apply it to non essential so. Either way it would have been more sensible to leave it open rather than create pent up demand when it came to Christmas shopping.

Loads of shebeens were busted by the guards, and documented by the media.

God knows how many more went on without being detected, I know of many myself, and also house parties etc. etc.

Rammed to me means full of people. Never saw it. I call BS. Most people did adhere to guidelines and no supermarket I visited was ever rammed. They took covid seriously and with it ensured their premises were deemed safe. I think you are exaggerating to try and make a point.

I don't recall loads of shebeens being in the media. There were some, yes, that were reported on, which I suppose we all expected. But they were named in the media and commented on in these very threads. There weren't loads at all so I call exaggeration again.

PTH2009

Delta variant has a nice ring to it

speckle

PTH2009 wrote: »

Delta variant has a nice ring to it

Whats Z...Zappa?

PTH2009

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0602/1225601-watch-covid-19-briefing-from-the-department-of-health/

My bad Covid Delta is named

Boggles

speckle wrote: »

awwh come on now Boggles common sense 101 would tell you the pent up demand last Xmas was like no other maybe your trying to wind me up?

Not at all, I am aware of people who did not travel home for Christmas as usual though because of the pandemic, travel numbers into the country were a fraction of what they normally are, and TBH and I didn't see many people "going mad".

So nothing really concrete to offer there.

speckle wrote: »

No that is not the nursing home I was referring to..there was also circa the same number of deaths in one community hospital..just incase you want to looking ..yet the local undertakers in kerry were no busier overall then previous years...

You avoided the c50 deaths out of 147,707 people with a higher than average elderly population. May the all rest in peace.

I suggested both vitamin D along with other health regimes keeping your immune system as good as it can be along with proper infection control protocols..you left that last bit out again..like you did with the deaths per county.

Well if 14 staff tested positive infection control wasn't that "proper" now was it?

So that leaves Vitamin D that prevented infection? Nonsense.

Again, which Nursing Homes was it?

speckle wrote: »

Nphets behavioural/cognitive scientists have to narrow a focus when it comes to human pyschology..they could have done with a wider range of people from the field of pyschology.

You both know them and are qualified to say that?

speckle wrote: »

yes as pointed out above by re retail other posters..yes re schools the kids in primary in particular in kerry they all live near each other and intereact anyway in classroom bubbles even outside of school... the secondary school kids yes also but with a supervised lunch hour.

Huh?

No they don't.

Absolute bonkers thing to claim.

speckle wrote: »

I never claimed thst people would not have come home for Xmas in my original post.. but certainly more came this year as they had not seen their family or friends in ages. which ties in with the cases going up higher for the first time for a short while in the whole long pandemic..yet they still have the lowest or second lowest mortality rate..even during level 3...you explain that.

I don't need to explain anything, I am not the one stating that allowing more hosts interact would result in less infection.

You can't explain it because it is nonsensical.

speckle

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0602/1225601-watch-covid-19-briefing-from-the-department-of-health/

My bad Covid Delta is named

I really dont think it will take off... I mean for ordinary folks who will still call them from where it arrives..uk..brazil..india etc.. and keep the b1117 etc for virologists and those else who want to differienate. How nany businesses named after greek letters they might not want it either

speckle

Boggles wrote: »

Not at all, I am aware of people who did not travel home for Christmas as usual though because of the pandemic, travel numbers into the country were a fraction of what they normally are, and TBH and I didn't see many people "going mad".

So nothing really concrete to offer there.



Well if 14 staff tested positive infection control wasn't that "proper" now was it?

So that leaves Vitamin D that prevented infection? Nonsense.

Again, which Nursing Homes was it?



You both know them and are qualified to say that?



Huh?

No they don't.

Absolute bonkers thing to claim.




I don't need to explain anything, I am not the one stating that allowing more hosts interact would result in less infection.

You can't explain it because it is nonsensical.

Did you see the posts on the travel threads re people coming home from abroad aswell as within the country.. read back on them yourself and people giving out re airports?

Again the 14 staff went home/socialised etc over Xmas..no blame intended but those infection controls you belittle etc meant all nursing home residents tested twice negative..so I think they worked.
The nursing home was in the media check yourself seeing you were quick to find one of the sad stories from kerry you should be able to find the positive.
oh just to add the other large outbreak was in a refugee center no fault of their own but caused by the government sending positive people to cahersiveen.

I checked their resumes very early on..did you? maybe one or two added/swapped since..

The kids form bubbles in school and to play there.. ... for example do you expect an only child not to have met anyone all year outside of school? What sort of pyschological damage would that have done?

I have explained my side of the issue but you have not explained your side why kerry should be at level 5.

And you might think it is nonsence which your perfectly entitled too.. but the people of Kerry might think different... how about travelling down there like the tens of thousands tourists did last summer and asking the people of Kerry themselves?

Boggles

speckle wrote: »

Did you see the posts on the travel threads re people coming home from abroad aswell as within the country.. read back on them yourself and people giving out re airports?

Travel was at a absolute fraction compared to pre pandemic, I don't need to check a thread, it's not my opinion.

speckle wrote: »

Again the 14 staff went home/socialised etc over Xmas..no blame intended but those infection controls you belittle etc meant all nursing home residents tested twice negative..so I think they worked.
The nursing home was in the media check yourself seeing you were quick to find one of the sad stories from kerry you should be able to find the positive.

I tried like I said, now it's your claim, boards etiquette says back it up.

So in your own good time.

speckle wrote: »

I checked their resumes very early on..did you? maybe one or two added/swapped since..

Who and again what qualifications have you to determine they are not qualified?

speckle wrote: »

The kids form bubbles in school and to play here.. ... for example do you expect an only child not to have met anyone all year outside of school? What sort of pyschological damage would that have done?

You claimed all kids in Kerry stay in their bubbles outside school.

That is clearly nonsense. Isn't it?

speckle

Boggles wrote: »

Travel was at a absolute fraction compared to pre pandemic, I don't need to check a thread, it's not my opinion.



I tried like I said, now it's your claim, boards etiquette says back it up.

So in your own good time.




Who and again what qualifications have you to determine they are not qualified?




You claimed all kids in Kerry stay in their bubbles outside school.

That is clearly nonsense. Isn't it?

I and others posted about the nursing home on the kerry thread..maybe you could spend some time reading that if you havn't as I try not to cross post links.

Never heard of this boards etiquette for this particular thread ...not in the OP.

Read again..I did not say that they were not qualified in their fields but too many from similiar backgrounds ie. the behavioural field..there is much more to psychology than that one narrow field surely that is basic knowledge? I like many others here on boards dont have to post their qualifications to post and I dont ask for yours either? It is a discussion board not linkedin and if we both have different viewpoints so be it ..others can make their minds up.

By the way maybe you would like to check out or email instead the professor of medical anthropology from Maynooth who was asking the question why Kerry had such good covid stats..if you need a qualified professional.

Should say high risk kids of course are extra careful re bubbling but that is the same everywhere in the country.

Again if you think it is nonsense that the people of kerry were in too high a level..as they say ask the horses mouth.

Tog de bog e but still looking forward to your next reply

gozunda

NIAC Fanboy wrote: »

Christ Tony loves the sound of his own voice.

Crowds have been gathering outdoors for months with no noticeable increase in cases. The ul party, the salthill party, the list is endless.

Except we know case numbers (although reduced from the high numbers we witnesses at Christmas) have remained elevated for several months now.

Now just like you - I can't say point the finger at all the things keeping those numbers constant - but I'd wager you an outdoor pint - that the increase in socialising of all types - has contributed some degree to that running total.

Do I have proof? No I don't. But the one thing I will say is that without the ongoing vaccination programme - things wouldn't be half as rosey with hospital and ICU numbers.

At least your bugbear "Tony" as CMO has full access to the relevant data - something that keyboard warriors apparently don't

NIAC Fanboy

gozunda wrote: »

Now just like you - I can't say point the finger at all the things keeping those numbers constant - but I'd wager you an outdoor pint - that the increase in socialising of all types - has contributed some degree to that running total.

I'd agree 100%, and I'd wager you another outddor pint that 99% of cases caused by increased socialising were from indoor socialising.

gozunda wrote: »

But the one thing I will say is that without the ongoing vaccination programme - things wouldn't be half as rosey with hospital and ICU numbers.

I don't believe anybody is disputing that, other than the anti vax crowd.

Stormyteacup

gozunda wrote: »

Except we know case numbers (although reduced from the high numbers we witnesses at Christmas) have remained elevated for several months now.

Now just like you - I can't say point the finger at all the things keeping those numbers constant - but I'd wager you an outdoor pint - that the increase in socialising of all types - has contributed some degree to that running total.

Do I have proof? No I don't. But the one thing I will say is that without the ongoing vaccination programme - things wouldn't be half as rosey with hospital and ICU numbers.

At least your bugbear "Tony" as CMO has full access to the relevant data - something that keyboard warriors apparently don't

They have remained steady. Elevated is subjective. At one point recently, oireachtas reports suggested they would be happy with over 1,000 cases provided vaccine rollout went according to plan.

So cases remain steady despite relaxations so far. It seems nothing to date has caused a spike in case numbers and ICU/deaths continue to slowly fall.

Tony may well have full access to relevant data - we sure don’t. Why is it private? NPHET minutes haven’t been published in five weeks despite requests from members of government.

Needless castigation and shaming of people gathering outdoors with respect to them being a danger to public health.

daydorunrun

gozunda wrote: »

Except we know case numbers (although reduced from the high numbers we witnesses at Christmas) have remained elevated for several months now.

Now just like you - I can't say point the finger at all the things keeping those numbers constant - but I'd wager you an outdoor pint - that the increase in socialising of all types - has contributed some degree to that running total.

Do I have proof? No I don't. But the one thing I will say is that without the ongoing vaccination programme - things wouldn't be half as rosey with hospital and ICU numbers.

At least your bugbear "Tony" as CMO has full access to the relevant data - something that keyboard warriors apparently don't

Is it only people who you disagree with that are keyboard warriors? I take it you don’t consider yourself one even though you are responsible for a fair percentage of the posts on this thread.

Richard Hillman

If Tony had the data they would have released it. They only release numbers that suit them. And when they have no numbers to suit the message, they break out the famous Worry-Index.