Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

Silentcorner wrote: »

I have already shared the people who i spent most time listening to, you seem to forget that...it was only the other day...and my mistake, was not factoring in a winter surge, hardly a hanging offense for an amateur....but you seem almost obsessed with attempting to undermine every thing I say, it's pathetic.

What snake oil salesman told you that Asyptomatic people transmit the virus?

This was one of the reasons we were all told we had to lock down by the way....

Asymptomatic people do transmit the virus, you have said so yourself. Do you need the quote?

It's the level at which they do is up for debate.

Do you think people who declared the pandemic over last year are credible?

Do you think the Anti Vax "doctor" you channel and the cook book author you parrot are credible?

ArthurDayne

charlie14 wrote: »

I didn`t point out that the CSO have produced the figures for Q1 2021, and there is no ambiguity from the CSO on Q2 2020 excess deaths and Covid deaths.
Excess deaths were 14.1% greater (1,063 deaths) and deaths due to Covid for the period were 1,227. 14.3% of all deaths for the period.

At what age does human life become meaningless for you as opposed to those younger?
As well as being an advocate for the natural herd immunity nonsense are you also an advocate for euthanasia, because it certainly sounds as if you are.

This virus has shown just how deadly it is if left to its own devices without adequate restrictions.
You have only to look next door at the UK who originally went the natural immunity light touch restriction route, or Sweden doing the same.
Sweden 14,413 deaths to date. Excess deaths for 2020 9,175 (10.3% increase). Norway, just over half Sweden`s population, 783 deaths to date. Finland, just over half Sweden`s population, 948 deaths to date.

Yeah but 10% excess deaths, especially in a context where the vast majority of those deaths are people of very old age, would have had much less of a compelling effect on convincing people as to the merits on balance of pursuing a lockdown strategy for a year and a half. It seems like almost 4,000 of Sweden’s fatalities were over the age of 90 — so many of them at least 7 years above average life expectancy. It’s not a question of their lives having less value, but simply one of degree in tragedy — the exact same phenomenon by which the level of grief and horror over the death of a young person in a community tends to be far higher than that of an older person who has lived a full long life.

And cut the “euthanasia” moralising — when the pandemic is over you will happily advocate reopening things even if infections will still circulate and continue to kill vulnerable old people, just so you can have your freedoms. Are their lives of “less value” too simply because there would be less of them numerically? Or is it simply the case that you also recognise that there is a balancing act involved, even when it comes to human life?

Silentcorner

Boggles wrote: »

Asymptomatic people do transmit the virus, you have said so yourself. Do you need the quote?

It's the level at which they do is up for debate.

Do you think people who declared the pandemic over last year are credible?

Do you think the Anti Vax "doctor" you channel and the cook book author you parrot are credible?

If I said that then I was wrong...they don't transmit, as we now know....if I said that outdoor transmission of this virus is a danger, then I'd have been wrong there as well....you hardly expect an amateur to be right all the time, you can't even point out an expert who has been right some of the time yet you still cling to the belief that the actions of our Government have been entirely necessary.

See that is the point Boggles..a lot of what we were led to believe hasn't manifested itself anywhere, so it is on ourselves to try to make sense of what is happening to all of us....you seem to have some weird obsession going on about youtube grifters that you can't see the grifters that are selling you snake oil.....you aren't the only one Boggles.

You have some weird obsession to try to undermine me also....it's very weird.

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you are going to discuss death rates can you show a bit of emotional maturity, instead you are engaging in hyper emotional sensitivity as a tool of aggression....

The data for deaths in 2020 is not showing much excess death, you can't just isolate the flu season and use that as an example of excess death.

What percentage of people who dies from/with Covid were in the elderly demographic? 80%? You have to ask yourself, did the state fail these people, should we have embarked in more "focused protection" type policy then?

I would be more inclined to associate aged based euthanasia with a dangerous slippery slope ideology than emotional maturity.

If you believe the months of Quarter 2 (April, May & June) are the height of Ireland`s flu season then you know as much about the flu as you do about Covid.

For the three months of Quarter 2 of 2020 the Central Statistics Office found that excess deaths were 1,063 (14.1%) and that Covid deaths at 1,227were 14.3% of all deaths for those three months.
I know that does not suit your narrative, but those are the facts and no childish ramblings on flu season is going to change them.

We`re back to the "focused protection" of the vulnerable by the nonsense of natural herd immunity I see.
When are you going to cop on to the facts that Ioannidis and Giesecke have for a long time now been exposed as nothing other than limelight seeking grifters, and that the opinions of Gupta, Kuldorff and Bhattacharya were bought and paid for by some very shady people.

charlie14

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Yeah but 10% excess deaths, especially in a context where the vast majority of those deaths are people of very old age, would have had much less of a compelling effect on convincing people as to the merits on balance of pursuing a lockdown strategy for a year and a half. It seems like almost 4,000 of Sweden’s fatalities were over the age of 90 — so many of them at least 7 years above average life expectancy. It’s not a question of their lives having less value, but simply one of degree in tragedy — the exact same phenomenon by which the level of grief and horror over the death of a young person in a community tends to be far higher than that of an older person who has lived a full long life.

And cut the “euthanasia” moralising — when the pandemic is over you will happily advocate reopening things even if infections will still circulate and continue to kill vulnerable old people, just so you can have your freedoms. Are their lives of “less value” too simply because there would be less of them numerically? Or is it simply the case that you also recognise that there is a balancing act involved, even when it comes to human life?

Not the point or even close.
The poster was of the opinion we had no excess deaths and that Covid was not the killer we were lead to believe. I provided the stats for Quarter 2 2020 that showed we did and it was.
14.1% excess deaths, and deaths due to Covid for the Quarter were 1 in every 7. (14.3%)

Hard to not think of an advocation of euthanasia when people post the belief that preventable deaths are acceptable and of no concern just based on age while simultaneously pushing their unethical natural herd immunity nonsense.

GT89

If masks were such an effective tool as reducing transmission then this would have never gotten out of China

Silentcorner

charlie14 wrote: »

Not the point or even close.
The poster was of the opinion we had no excess deaths and that Covid was not the killer we were lead to believe. I provided the stats for Quarter 2 2020 that showed we did and it was.
14.1% excess deaths, and deaths due to Covid for the Quarter were 1 in every 7. (14.3%)

Hard to not think of an advocation of euthanasia when people post the belief that preventable deaths are acceptable and of no concern just based on age while simultaneously pushing their unethical natural herd immunity nonsense.

AS usual you completely misrepresent what I said.

We haven't recorded much if any excess deaths for 2020. This is a fact. There is possibly about 1,600 deaths attributable to Covid...a larger number than what we would normally see attributable to viral infections....but no where near the realm we were led to believe.

You are also tying yourself in knots as usual.

IF you accept that over 80% of Covid related deaths occurred in a particular demographic (over 70s with serious underlying health issues) ...then logically, you must also question whether we should have focused more on protecting that demographic....

suicide_circus

GT89 wrote: »

If masks were such an effective tool as reducing transmission then this would have never gotten out of China

Probably didn't have the €9 meal rule

charlie14

Silentcorner wrote: »

AS usual you completely misrepresent what I said.

We haven't recorded much if any excess deaths for 2020. This is a fact. There is possibly about 1,600 deaths attributable to Covid...a larger number than what we would normally see attributable to viral infections....

You are also tying yourself in knots as usual.

IF you accept that over 80% of Covid related deaths occurred in a particular demographic (over 70s with serious underlying health issues) ...then logically, you must also question whether we should have focused more on protecting that demographic....

We have no official deaths for 2020, let alone excess deaths, other than those for the months of April, May and June, the first months of this pandemic.

There is no ambiguity in the CSO statement of Nov 2020 that for that three month period excess deaths were 14.1% and Covid deaths were 1 in 7 (14.3%) of all deaths for that period.
The only person here tying themselves in knots is you attempting to ignore those statistics with a half -assed theory that those deaths were due to flu for those months.

Thankfully we did make the logical choices to protect the vulnerable by using lockdown and the vaccination program being age based, rather than the unethical and now disproven ramblings of grifters on natural herd immunity and the advocates of same such as yourself.

corcaigh07

charlie14 wrote: »

We have no official deaths for 2020, let alone excess deaths, other than those for the months of April, May and June, the first months of this pandemic.

There is no ambiguity in the CSO statement of Nov 2020 that for that three month period excess deaths were 14.1% and Covid deaths were 1 in 7 (14.3%) of all deaths for that period.
The only person here tying themselves in knots is you attempting to ignore those statistics with a half -assed theory that those deaths were due to flu for those months.

Thankfully we did make the logical choices to protect the vulnerable by using lockdown and the vaccination program being age based, rather than the unethical and now disproven ramblings of grifters on natural herd immunity and the advocates of same such as yourself.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsys/vitalstatisticsyearlysummary2020/

mightyreds

My Snapchat is full of indoor drinking today, half of kildare must have headed north when they seen the forecast.

I'm excited for the timely reopening of Ireland.

normanoffside

This is very concerning.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1398724543536041990

ACitizenErased

That's an embarrassing tweet to be honest.

GeorgeBailey

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That's an embarrassing tweet to be honest.

Infuriating too. He'll lose a lot of goodwill with that. People trying to do the right thing by being outdoors and they still get a scolding.

normanoffside

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That's an embarrassing tweet to be honest.

Not surprising as he bases many of his policies on anecdotes rather than science.

km79

normanoffside wrote: »

This is very concerning.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1398724543536041990

He has lost the room now
Sure MM was telling us it’s an outdoor summer

dominatinMC

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Infuriating too. He'll lose a lot of goodwill with that. People trying to do the right thing by being outdoors and they still get a scolding.

Tony lost the room a long time ago. His "dark cloud" comments, and now this will only exacerbate this. Not that he will care, he's doing his job, but seems to have forgotten the importance of bedside manner

dominatinMC

PTH2009 wrote: »

The media scare game wont be going away anytime soon sadly. A rise in anything will be reported as the end of the world

The country will go insane if last years timeline repeats itself, i know i will

Sorry, I'm seeing comments like this all the time. Lockdown in winter, seasonal virus, etc etc. How could last year's timeline possibly repeat itself if 60-70% of the population are fully vaccinated by the winter?

charlie14

dominatinMC wrote: »

Sorry, I'm seeing comments like this all the time. Lockdown in winter, seasonal virus, etc etc. How could last year's timeline possibly repeat itself if 60-70% of the population are fully vaccinated by the winter?

It`s rubbish. Just anti lockdown posters now seeing reopening going ahead doing what they were previously accusng others of doing. Scaremongering.

Dickie10

normanoffside wrote: »

This is very concerning.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1398724543536041990

King Tony el dictator , throwing it all on the line for one last coup de grace at holding onto power. wow he really is acting full egotistical tyrant now, sort of thing you see in the final days of dictatorship regime about to fall. this is his last shot at glory . by god hes going for it, paving the way for one late pull on the pubs. i feel hes trying to pave the way for pulling the plug on june 7th lads, wait for it. he will do his best to make this all over front pages and full news coverage this week.

AlekSmart

km79 wrote: »

He has lost the room now
Sure MM was telling us it’s an outdoor summer

Don't be so sure of that .

The CMO has his influential friends in high places,and his opinions hold a great deal of weight there.

It is my belief that He and many of his NPHET co members have become intoxicated with their power,influence and status and like may such sufferers,now believe themselves to be omnipotent and immune to challenge.

When one adds the new-found Irish political belief in Parochialism and introversion,then we truly are in dangerous times.

These people will use ANY means available,including a never ending "Variant" list to ensure the ordinaries stay at home and give up deatroying the Planet with unnecessary travel and over use of free time on useless fripperies such as foreign holidays and the likes.

Wide ranging powers to close down society,thus far temporary,are vast...

https://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/1947/act/28/revised/en/html#SEC31A

Covid-19 is no longer the core,if indeed it ever was,for example,when did Covid-19 last meet this definition....

31A. (1) The Minister may, having regard to the immediate, exceptional and manifest risk posed to human life and public health by the spread of Covid-19 and to the matters specified in subsection (2), make regulations for the purpose of preventing, limiting, minimising or slowing the spread of Covid-19 (including the spread outside the State) or where otherwise necessary, to deal with public health risks arising from the spread of Covid-19 and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, such regulations may, in particular, provide for all or any of the following:

( a ) restrictions to be imposed upon travel to or from the State;

( b ) restrictions to be imposed upon travel to, from or within geographical locations to which an affected areas order applies;

( c ) without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (b), restrictions to be imposed upon persons or classes of persons resident in, working in or visiting locations referred to in paragraph (b) including (but not limited to) —

(i) requiring persons to remain in their homes, or

(ii) without prejudice to any other provisions of this Act or regulations made thereunder requiring persons to remain in such other places, as may be specified by the Minister;

I'm afraid we've long since strayed far beyond Public Health concerns........:o

PTH2009

normanoffside wrote: »

This is very concerning.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1398724543536041990

Pathetic

mightyreds

Villarreal had a parade for their Europa league win during the week , man united and Villarreal fans travelling to Gdansk, drinking away in bars and allowed enter the stadium, same in Porto tonight.

Are we living in an alternate universe in Ireland it definitely feels like it?

expectationlost

mightyreds wrote: »

Villarreal had a parade for their Europa league win during the week , man united and Villarreal fans travelling to Gdansk, drinking away in bars and allowed enter the stadium, same in Porto tonight.

Are we living in an alternate universe in Ireland it definitely feels like it?

you'll follow football fans as people with good judgement?

mightyreds

expectationlost wrote: »

you'll follow football fans as people with good judgement?

Was it the fans who allowed the parade go ahead or the stadiums to have fans inside ??

expectationlost

mightyreds wrote: »

Was it the fans who allowed the parade go ahead or the stadiums to have fans inside ??

you follow politicians as people with good judgement?

mightyreds

expectationlost wrote: »

you follow politicians as people with good judgement?

So who are we meant to follow Tony Holohan, Anthony staines, Joe Biden, Ivor cummins? Your not giving away much of your wisdom

expectationlost

mightyreds wrote: »

So who are we meant to follow Tony Holohan, Anthony staines, Joe Biden, Ivor cummins? Your not giving away much of your wisdom

its the politician that makes these decisions that what you told me

Del Griffith

normanoffside wrote: »

This is very concerning.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1398724543536041990

LOL

The only thing better than seeing those scenes (which are there every weekend Tony btw) is seeing St Tony snapping about it.