Covid 19 in India

wadacrack

I think this deserves a thread. Alot could be learned from what has happened in India.

It seems that the Virus has thrived in India for a number of reasons mainly cramped living conditions. Vastly populated slumps and it would seem that the virus hits people in this region quite severely. Low level's of Vitamin D and poor diet and metabolic health seem to have been factors also.

Hopefully it can become under control, but it might require alot of time and Worldwide support with a population of over 1 billion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npTHqFQ4zsc

Beasty

Leadership has not helped

Less than 2 weeks ago

Prime Minister Narendra Modi was at a packed political rally in the city of Asansol, where he gloated at how crowded the event was. “I have never attended a rally like this,” he said, where crowds were packed “as far as the eye could see.”

There are also claims that the figures in India are vastly under-reported

wadacrack

Deaths likely to be significantly under reported. Some of the scenes out their have been pretty disturbing.

https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status/1387801130206318600

wadacrack

wadacrack wrote: »

It seems that the Virus has thrived in India for a number of reasons mainly cramped living conditions. Vastly populated slumps and it would seem that the virus hits people in this region quite severely. Low level's of Vitamin D and poor diet and metabolic health seem to have been factors also.

But that's always been the case with India. Why is it just in the past week the infection exploded?

I have a feeling it's due to the mutation and there's no reason to think we are immune to seeing chaos here when the mutation arrives.

strathspey

I think Covid-19 has exposed the limits of voting for populist leaders. Think Trump, Johnson, that clown in Brazil, Modi and that other clown in Turkey. I almost forgot that narcissist, Putin. All leaders of their respective countries with the worst Covid statistics.

wadacrack

salonfire wrote: »

But that's always been the case with India. Why is it just in the past week the infection exploded?

I have a feeling it's due to the mutation and there's no reason to think we are immune to seeing chaos here when the mutation arrives.

Public health in first World countries I think will have proper surveillance in place to deal with it.

Atm its hard to know how much of a risk this Indian variant is. From what Iv seen vaccination seems to protect against severe illness for it.

humberklog

They were doing well enough up until recently and whilst I know they eased up restriction thinking they'd avoided the worst some in the press and government were even going on about "Indian Exceptionalism" (very Modi), But events like Cricket matches and festivals like Hola Mohalla being allowed to go ahead in March do look like super spreader events.

A old friend of mine was living in Pushkar for the last year or so and even during the strictest of lock downs life was going on as normal for the people of Pushkar at least.

He died of Covid last week.

Atlantic Dawn

India is the world's largest manufacturer of vaccines, they should have export controls in place until their vulnerable are all treated.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/covid-19-is-out-of-control-in-india-where-most-vaccines-are-made-how-did-that-happen

gozunda

wadacrack wrote: »

I think this deserves a thread. Alot could be learned from what has happened in India.

It seems that the Virus has thrived in India for a number of reasons mainly cramped living conditions. Vastly populated slumps and it would seem that the virus hits people in this region quite severely. Low level's of Vitamin D and poor diet and metabolic health seem to have been factors also.

Hopefully it can become under control, but it might require alot of time and Worldwide support with a population of over 1 billion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npTHqFQ4zsc

Though doesn't quite explain why India had such low levels of infection up to Dec / January.

Various theories which had been offered including that they had beaten the virus, peoples immune systems there were stronger - (due to being exposed to a wide range of common infections), that high levels of herd immunity had been achieved etc.

Would I wrong be thinking that with India's warm / sunny climate - a lot of people should have decent levels of Vitamin D?

India didn't seem to be badly hit last year like Europe and South America when this was spreading like wildfire. I found that quite odd as you'd expect numbers akin to what we are seeing now.

wadacrack

gozunda wrote: »

Though doesn't quite explain why India had duch low levels of infection up to Dec / January.

Various theories which had been offered including that they had beaten the virus, peoples immune systems there were stronger - (due to being exposed to a wide range of common infections), that high levels of herd immunity had been achieved etc.

Would I wrong be thinking that with India's warm / sunny climate - a lot of people should have decent levels of Vitamin D?

Their skin type does not absorb the Vitamin D that effectively . Its low in African population for this reason also.

I think its obvious that a new variant has played a major role , but the environment seems perfect for one to thrive in. The virus seems to go in cyclical patterns also in spite even of lockdowns.

At the moment it is hard to say for sure either way. Its a country to keep a close eye on

ShineOn7

wadacrack wrote: »

Low level's of Vitamin D and poor diet and metabolic health seem to have been factors also.

A doctor (a proper qualified one) was on with Joe Rogan about 6 months ago saying that the fact they used so much Turmeric in their diet was playing a big part in why India wasn't hit hard with Covid

It just goes to show how much silliness has been said in the last 12 months. Turmeric alone was never going to stop the inevitable catastrophe there


Question is, after South America and India, where else is due a Wave like this because of their infrastructure and factors similar to India?

Surely Second and Third World African countries will do well to not get ravaged?

Or maybe they have been and the reporting/recording of cases can't be tracked as well as the First World

ShineOn7

humberklog wrote: »

A old friend of mine was living in Pushkar for the last year or so and even during the strictest of lock downs life was going on as normal for the people of Pushkar at least.

He died of Covid last week.

Sorry for your loss

I saw you mentioning in another thread that he was only 55

Stheno

India relaxed all restrictions in January and declared victory over Covid essentially

They then had huge political events, no social distancing, and enormous religious festivals which were attended by millions and encouraged by Modi and his ruling party

Today there are ongoing elections and yet another religious festival is about to kick off soon


Interesting article here calling out a lot of the issues


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/29/we-are-not-special-how-triumphalism-led-india-to-covid-19-disaster

In its public statements, few groups were more certain in their conclusion that the pandemic was over than the ruling BJP. At a meeting of its national executive early in the year, with its eye on the upcoming elections, the party issued nothing less than a victory cry.


In the face of the world “speculating over how India with its vast population and limited healthcare infrastructure” would deal with the pandemic, according to a party resolution, it could be “said with pride that India [had] defeated Covid under the able, sensitive, committed and visionary leadership of Prime Minister Narendra Modi”.

wadacrack

wadacrack wrote: »

Their skin type does not absorb the Vitamin D that effectively . Its low in African population for this reason also.

I think its obvious that a new variant has played a major role , but the environment seems perfect for one to thrive in. The virus seems to go in cyclical patterns also in spite even of lockdowns.

At the moment it is hard to say for sure either way. Its a country to keep a close eye on

Northern Europeans are pale skinned to promote vitamin d due to the low sunlight at high latitudes. Darker skin tones at lower latitudes are because the is no issue with absorption of vitamin d. Lower levels of vitamin d in the Indian populations in Europe is due to skin tone. Same for Africans in Europe and North America. Why it is the case in India I don’t know.

Skin tone is essentially a battle between vitamin d and folic acid. Lighter skin tone promotes production of vitamin d through sunlight. Darker skin tones prevent destruction of folic acid through sunlight. It’s a balance which is difficult to maintain. Conditions such as spina bifida have higher prevalence in Northern Europe due to the folic acid deficiency

ShineOn7

Stheno wrote: »

India relaxed all restrictions in January and declared victory over Covid essentially

How much of the country % wise was vaccinated before they did this?

If any

drunkmonkey

India stopped early intervention of Ivermectin to prevent hospitalisations, this was based on WHO advice that it was only to be used in clinical trials. It's use has now been recommended again since the 22nd of April but not by the WHO, it's expected to put a serious dent in the numbers shortly.

alchemist33

humberklog wrote: »

They were doing well enough up until recently and whilst I know they eased up restriction thinking they'd avoided the worst some in the press and government were even going on about "Indian Exceptionalism" (very Modi), But events like Cricket matches and festivals like Hola Mohalla being allowed to go ahead in March do look like super spreader events.

A old friend of mine was living in Pushkar for the last year or so and even during the strictest of lock downs life was going on as normal for the people of Pushkar at least.

He died of Covid last week.

Sorry for your loss. I've been to Pushkar, a very interesting place.

I've been off work this week so more time to look at the news and some of the reports on Sky have been nightmarish - a family driving a man (he looked about 30) around town looking for oxygen as the hospital was full, giving him (poor quality) chest compressions every time he lost consciousness. It was just horrendous. I'm glad lots of countries including ourselves are offering support.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

India stopped early intervention of Ivermectin to prevent hospitalisations, this was based on WHO advice that it was only to be used in clinical trials. It's use has now been recommended again since the 22nd of April but not by the WHO, it's expected to put a serious dent in the numbers shortly.

Still hawking magic beans?

odyssey06

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still hawking magic beans?

In India you can get magic beans whenever you want... but still end up in hospital alas

https://theprint.in/health/fearing-covid-indians-are-popping-ivermectin-hcq-dexamethasone-all-self-prescribed/642475/

Stheno

ShineOn7 wrote: »

How much of the country % wise was vaccinated before they did this?

If any

Right now they are at about 8% I think for a first dose https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56345591.amp

Back in January it was restricted initially to healthcare workers

They have a shortage of vaccines also

humberklog

alchemist33 wrote: »

Sorry for your loss. I've been to Pushkar, a very interesting place.

Mad thing is is that he's Belgian (lived in Ireland for 20+ years) and the first cases of the Indian variant has turned up in Belgium!

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Still hawking magic beans?

Guidance reintroduced 22nd of April, https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/bodyeditor/202104/COVID19_Management_Algorithm_2-1200x2100.jpg?RzVfHMjtyv0eSdheB2m3htdqCWf4xGXH
You know they've been shown to prevent a good propitiation of disease progression and reduce time of infection.
Check in with around the 14th of May and we'll know if they're magic beans or not.

drunkmonkey

odyssey06 wrote: »

In India you can get magic beans whenever you want... but still end up in hospital alas

https://theprint.in/health/fearing-covid-indians-are-popping-ivermectin-hcq-dexamethasone-all-self-prescribed/642475/

Alas it's the same with a lot of medications, it's always worth consulting a medical professional, from your link "these medicines should be taken in the hospital settings, under a trained physician. "

gozunda

ShineOn7 wrote: »

How much of the country % wise was vaccinated before they did this?

If any

At the beginning of April, India's Health Ministry declared that it was "the fastest country in the world" to give more than 100 million jabs and "achieved the feat in 85 days, whereas the US took 89 days and China 102 days".

Unfortunately the programme to vaccinate the eligible adult population out of a total population of 1.3 million means that currently their vaccination rate is running at around 50 percent of our own.

Interestingly India produces 60 percent of the world’s vaccines, largely through the Serum Institute of India, the world’s largest vaccine manufacturer. However the country has been running out of raw materials to produce enough vaccines to immunize its own population of 1.3 billion people.

The current outbreak means that vaccines previously designated as exports will now be likley redirected to help stem the further spread of infection there.

the14thwarrior

People's behaviours, attitudes, and engagement in activities with ill regard to advice have resulted in large numbers being infected.

they gathered in masses, on an ongoing basis, for weeks and weeks.

yes the government have a hand in it, poor leadership and bad advice, but I don't believe millions and millions of people are that silly to believe one leader if they say they have it under control, and ignore the rest of the world that is largely in lockdown in one form or the other

and honestly who ever believed they were really telling the truth in the first place.?

vaccines are useful.

but if the rest of the world are largely behaving in a manner that limits the disease, and your country does not, then a virus like Covid will, and has, run rampant.

its shocking
it was only ever going to end up in diaster.

Stheno

the14thwarrior wrote: »

People's behaviours, attitudes, and engagement in activities with ill regard to advice have resulted in large numbers being infected.

they gathered in masses, on an ongoing basis, for weeks and weeks.

yes the government have a hand in it, poor leadership and bad advice, but I don't believe millions and millions of people are that silly to believe one leader if they say they have it under control, and ignore the rest of the world that is largely in lockdown in one form or the other

and honestly who ever believed they were really telling the truth in the first place.?

vaccines are useful.

but if the rest of the world are largely behaving in a manner that limits the disease, and your country does not, then a virus like Covid will, and has, run rampant.

its shocking
it was only ever going to end up in diaster.

India is a very very fractured country tbh

Modi adherents slavishly follow his announcements and policies, opposition is weak and then you've the day labourer who has no social welfare

ImDave

Scary situation and really tough to see the videos and coverage. I work with a lot of folks in India and the number of people I’ve heard of today alone who have COVID right now is crazy, and so many more with family members who are ill, or living in apartment complexes where neighbours are sick.

One of the guys on my team back in February described that last year someone in a crowd without a mask would have stood out, whereas earlier this year the person wearing a mask would stand out. Life seems to have been fully back to normal before this spike.

50% of vaccines purchased by government are being sold to private healthcare facilities as well I believe which just strikes me as crazy.

Stheno

ImDave wrote: »

Scary situation and really tough to see the videos and coverage. I work with a lot of folks in India and the number of people I’ve heard of today alone who have COVID right now is crazy, and so many more with family members who are ill, or living in apartment complexes where neighbours are sick.

One of the guys on my team back in February described that last year someone in a crowd without a mask would have stood out, whereas earlier this year the person wearing a mask would stand out. Life seems to have been fully back to normal before this spike.

50% of vaccines purchased by government are being sold to private healthcare facilities as well I believe which just strikes me as crazy.

Yep its insane. I've a colleague here in Ireland who is Indian who thought our lockdoqn was nuts as they were in India over Christmas and life was pretty normal

Now their family are all down with Covid

I'd 20 conference calls thus week with Indian participation only one did not have mention of people having Covid

Estimates are that ita between 10 and 50 times undetected and will not peak for several weeks

gozunda

ImDave wrote: »

Scary situation and really tough to see the videos and coverage. I work with a lot of folks in India and the number of people I’ve heard of today alone who have COVID right now is crazy, and so many more with family members who are ill, or living in apartment complexes where neighbours are sick.

One of the guys on my team back in February described that last year someone in a crowd without a mask would have stood out, whereas earlier this year the person wearing a mask would stand out. Life seems to have been fully back to normal before this spike.

50% of vaccines purchased by government are being sold to private healthcare facilities as well I believe which just strikes me as crazy.

That has now changed afaik to allow those companies producing covid vaccines to sell directly to private hospitals etc with the idea of boosting vaccine production

Until now, the Serum Institute of India and Bharat Biotech, manufacturers of the two COVID-19 vaccines approved for distribution in India, have sold those vaccines directly to the government at INR 150 ($2) a dose. The government, in turn, supplied the vaccines to private hospitals and state governments. Under the new policy, vaccine producers are permitted to sell up to half of their output to private hospitals and state governments directly at a higher market rate. The aim is to create an incentive for manufacturers to boost production.

https://fortune.com/2021/04/23/india-covid-cases-vaccine-raise-price-covishield-covaxin/

humberklog

I know it's been a year of looking at graphs and they kinda meld into one big big Groan over Time but this is pretty bloody stark...

Pablo Escobar

humberklog wrote: »

I know it's been a year of looking at graphs and they kinda meld into one big big Groan over Time but this is pretty bloody stark...

Stark, but also a massive understatement.

positron

Ignoring clueless / evil politicians and people who flaunt restrictions for a second, Indians are trying their darn best to control the virus and to stay alive.

For instance, my parents in India got their free vaccine thru their local health center an entire month before my in-laws here in Ireland. My parents and my in-laws are of same age group.

India had a travel quarantine system in place since middle of last year. I've heard stories of immigrant Indians travelling back to India to see their poorly relatives and having to watch the funeral online while sitting in the government run quarantine facilities. They had inter-state travel restrictions for months - with an online system requiring you to get a permission to travel which will in turn be checked at the border etc etc.

However - all of this came with untold amount of misery for the less fortunate of the society as well. We all have heard of stories of internal migrant workers walking thousands of kilometres to reach their village etc when certain states announced lockdowns.

All I am saying is their tried their darned best. And are still trying. There's a limit to how much they can do given how less well off the country is compared to Western nations, and given we are talking about a sixth of humanity, which is really hard to comprehend for regular folks. (A small state in south of India approximately seven times more people than in all Ireland - about the same population as Poland).

Sh1t has hit the fan lately. And the blame is squarely with the Government. They could have done more, and more importantly they could have avoided a lot more of the super-spreader situations. They shouldn't have jumped into "vaccination triumphed" narrative just yet.

Tough situation - not entirely their fault, but some for sure.

DaSilva

salonfire wrote: »

But that's always been the case with India. Why is it just in the past week the infection exploded?

I have a feeling it's due to the mutation and there's no reason to think we are immune to seeing chaos here when the mutation arrives.

People have been blaming mutations/variants for every single outbreak since the variants stole the headlines late last year.

The Kent variant for Christmas/Jan surge here
The Brazilian variant for their surge
The S.African variant for their surge

What about Bergamo back last March/April?
What about Wuhan Last January?
What about Iran?

The variants are just a distraction, this virus has been very capable of causing massive outbreaks since the beginning. What nobody wants to acknowledge because everything is bloody political now, is the role of chance.

RebelButtMunch

India added to the hotel quarantine list

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1213156-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

Going to impact global business and IT operations as well as staff fall ill or are required to look after relatives, including vacinne production.

Barkleys bank in the UK have branch staff taking call centre calls.

I hope it really bites businesses using third world labour firmly in the ass.

JP Liz V1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

India is the world's largest manufacturer of vaccines, they should have export controls in place until their vulnerable are all treated.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/covid-19-is-out-of-control-in-india-where-most-vaccines-are-made-how-did-that-happen

Yes export while the deaths and cases rise dramatically, I believe we sent over oxygen

positron

I recall seeing some statistics that half of India's vaccine export have been free - to third word nations. The other half has been to countries who can afford to pay - like Saudi Arabia and UK.

Of course AZ vaccine formulation was shared with SII - they didn't develop it themselves - and I think Gates and Melinda foundation paid like 300 million usd or so to SII to get vaccine production up and running, in return of 2 or 3 million doses of vaccines for poorer countries.

Indian Government has introduced some export controls recently but they certainly didn't do any drastic "our own first" - because that would have been very hard for many poorer nations.

wes

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

India added to the hotel quarantine list

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1213156-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

Took the government long enough. I do honestly wonder what they really are playing at. They have really half assed the hotel quarantine system.

wes

positron wrote: »

I recall seeing some statistics that half of India's vaccine export have been free - to third word nations.

Really? Vaccines are not free in quite a few Indian states, so that is really idiotic if they charge there own people for them.

Also, people can "skip" the line for vaccines, as you can pay for vaccines privately. Few of the Indian guys I work with have done so. Can't blame them, I would do the same in their shoes, but amazing how India is basically gone full capitalist hellscape right now.

VinLieger

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

India added to the hotel quarantine list

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1213156-mandatory-hotel-quarantine/

With the potential for numerous variant mutations in such a large population we should be shut to them entirely.

Wanderer78

Very scary stuff from India alright, apparently many young dying

Graces7

This week we have lost nine of our faith -family folk out there to covid.

They have been there for many years. gathering in the newborns that get abandoned.
They had been going out in the night to check for babies; so many dead and dead children, from covid

Our survivors are now barricaded in with food left outside the gate. Thankfully we still have phone contact .

Cremations in the streets as there is no room elsewhere and bodies in the streets. No farewells. No ceremony.

Scenes are like the worst disaster movie. Apocalyptic. Plague. Some of the drone shots online now are as it is.

And in our modern world much more easily disseminated.

Please take care out there.

Offline a while. We are so blessed here. Take care.

Wanderer78

Graces7 wrote: »

This week we have lost nine of our faith -family folk out there to covid.

They have been there for many years. gathering in the newborns that get abandoned.
They had been going out in the night to check for babies; so many dead and dead children, from covid

Our survivors are now barricaded in with food left outside the gate. Thankfully we still have phone contact .

Cremations in the streets as there is no room elsewhere and bodies in the streets. No farewells. No ceremony.

Scenes are like the worst disaster movie. Apocalyptic. Plague. Some of the drone shots online now are as it is.

And in our modern world much more easily disseminated.

Please take care out there.

Offline a while. We are so blessed here. Take care.

im very sorry grace, best of luck

B.A._Baracus

Watching some of the reports from sky news. It's bleeding sad. This should be the tail-end for covid throughout the world but it doesn't want to go away. Always changing and mutating. It really is a disease on the world.

Also just seen the brave people bringing bodies in ambulances. Some make shift ambulances. This is sad

JP Liz V1

It has surpassed 19 million cases

wadacrack

Insight about the situation in India.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQdKsLZjmaQ

Seems the government thought they had achieved herd immunity
Patients have to wait 24-48 for ICU
Hospital's running out of oxygen.
Higher death rate than first wave.
Milder cases getting better with early intervention.
Situation unmanageable.
Alot of patients suffering from stroke due to clotting from the virus.
Diabetes very prevalent in the population and this is contributing to severe illness.

wes

Some interesting reading from Arundhati Roy:

‘We are witnessing a crime against humanity’: Arundhati Roy on India’s Covid catastrophe


Far right governments have shown that they can't govern. We seen the turn around in the US, once they got rid of Trump, and the other country that is a disaster zone is Brazil, with their own far right idiot in charge. The far right can't govern and seem to only be good at getting people killed. I hope the world learns from this.

Also, after this Modi and rest of the RSS/BJP leadership need to go to prison, the scale of there failure can't go unpunished. Same for Trump and Bolsanaro imo.

beerguts

The situation in India is very upsetting and my thoughts and prayers go out to all within the subcontinent.
I have genuine questions regarding what is happening in other densely populated countries such as Pakistan and Nigeria. We certainly are not getting the true picture of how bad it is on those places. Would anyone with a primary source be able to give an insight into places in the world where the media is ignoring

bb1234567

Very disturbing what is happening in India. My friend in New Delhi said it's incredibly sad what is happening, there is real desperation for scarce oxygen supplies, and she knows lots of people queuing for hours or days on the streets for hospital treatment.

It is very strange that it has only occurred now though. My friend said last year Indian lockdown was nothing like Ireland or Europe, at the peak of harshest restrictions Indians were still holding weddings of over 100 guests commonly. She said limits on gathering are only being taken seriously now this time round as it's so bad there now. Well they really got away with murder.

Another thing that's strange is how a lot of Asia and Africa seemed to avoid scenes like this occurring , with a few exceptions like South Africa, for most of the pandemic. Really, what's occurring in india is one of the first times that the danger warned of by governments and media worldwide actually very clearly alined with what we can see happening on the ground.

But it has to be said that while the images and footage from india are awful, and not to take away from the tragedy that is unfolding there at all, but the practice of open air cremation pyres ,which looks apocalyptic to us , are actually common form of management of the dead there. Nothing new in COVID, other than the quantity of deaths obviously.

wes

beerguts wrote: »

The situation in India is very upsetting and my thoughts and prayers go out to all within the subcontinent.
I have genuine questions regarding what is happening in other densely populated countries such as Pakistan and Nigeria. We certainly are not getting the true picture of how bad it is on those places. Would anyone with a primary source be able to give an insight into places in the world where the media is ignoring

I have family in Pakistan and Azad Kashmir, it is not as bad as India (for example I know no one in Pakistan who has caught covid, but I know multiple Indian colleagues who have caught covid), but the situation is precarious and things could go either way.

I would recommend https://www.dawn.com/ for news on Pakistan and how things are going. It is an English language publication and provides decent enough coverage.

The major thing will be Eid at the end of Ramadan, people in Pakistan could make the same mistake we did over Christmas and create a super spreader event over Eid, by visiting families and throwing caution the wind. I hope the government locks thing down for the last few days of Ramadan and for Eid, otherwise I fear they could be in the same shoes as India in a few short weeks.