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Is PHEV a reasonable choice in rural Ireland to replace a diesel?

  • 28-04-2021 2:53pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭ batman1


    Currently have a VW Tiguan highline, 2.0D 150bhp. Considering changing to start the journey into electric cars. However, living in rural Ireland the fully electric might cause issues as work can take us on long journeys into the very rural areas and stopping to charge could be problematic. It happened someone I know who was rural and went to charge on a charger they wasn't working. No other charger nearby.

    I looked at the VW ID4 but it's big money for a similar spec.
    I also looked at the Volvo XC40 plug in hybrid. Nice car but I'm no expert so the combination of petrol and electric seems to be crowned upon here!
    I drove a few Toyota hybrids but they're not great.

    Can anyone offer any experience of the Volvo or point me to some real world fuel consumption or electric range? I believe the petrol engine is a 1.5 litre, unlike the huge Toyota ones..


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,323 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    PHEV are great if you mostly do short spins with occasional long trip but are not optimal for high mileage driver imo.


    BEVs are the way forward in my opinion but you need to get the biggest range you can to allay any risks of not being able to get to any charger. That’s if you are not doing over 300 km in a day very regularly. And have good access to home/ work charging.

    If regularly doing longer trips or overnights I’d probably stick with diesel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    The ENiro and ESoul will have over 300km real world range even in the depths of winter.
    I live rurally and used to do 50-60k km a year in an EV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ PaulRyan97


    By long journeys, what sort of distance do you mean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭ batman1


    Since covid our car done 12000km, mostly short runs around the area, 30-35km maybe 2/3 times a week and the local shops etc. A couple of long runs last summer for staycation.

    Pre covid the Mrs could be doing 500km round trip twice a week, visiting different rural areas. It's unlikely that will be the norm again but nothing is ever certain. If it stays as it is now, then it will be the 30-35km runs with a 250km round trip once or twice a month


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭ finbarrk


    I think a PHEV is a better option for someone living in rural Ireland. Like me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Your assessment is correct and the cost benefit of phev is dependant on regular 40km journeys which is the general battery capacity. It's also very dependant on having a normal car spend budget in that range. As you say Bev is expensive so if the glove doesn't fit.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭ krissovo


    finbarrk wrote: »
    I think a PHEV is a better option for someone living in rural Ireland. Like me.

    Why do you think that? I think rural is ideal for BEV, we have space to charge at home so always start full and typically we head into built up areas. I was doing a daily commute of 150km’s with a low range BEV (I3) no problem in the good old days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭ finbarrk


    I live about 300km from Dublin. We might go there a couple of times a year. I don't want the hassle of looking for a charge point. Use the engine for those trips. The PHEV will do around at home for travelling in and out of work. Going shopping, to matches, etc. Can charge for free at work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭ kirving


    krissovo wrote: »
    Why do you think that? I think rural is ideal for BEV, we have space to charge at home so always start full and typically we head into built up areas. I was doing a daily commute of 150km’s with a low range BEV (I3) no problem in the good old days.

    As the OP says, potential 500km round trips at unknown frequency are an issue.

    At 750km per week of predictable commuting, the cost savings very easily offset any other drawbacks. Off the top of my head, probably a saving of €60 p/w vs a petrol (€75 - €15).

    Doing just 90km per week, the cost savings driving a BEV are minimal.

    For me, I'd save a good chunk of my running cost if I were to drive a BEV, but I can't live with other drawbacks. I commute at least once a week Dublin-Galway return, and rent in both locations, where I can't install a charger.

    Charging the 330e with the Granny cable saves me between 10 and 15 per week, depending on how much I charge, and I get a nice quiet drive around Dublin city and my daily 10 min drive to work.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    batman1 wrote: »
    Since covid our car done 12000km, mostly short runs around the area, 30-35km maybe 2/3 times a week and the local shops etc. A couple of long runs last summer for staycation.

    Pre covid the Mrs could be doing 500km round trip twice a week, visiting different rural areas. It's unlikely that will be the norm again but nothing is ever certain. If it stays as it is now, then it will be the 30-35km runs with a 250km round trip once or twice a month

    Stick with diesel or move to full electric. A PHEV will not suit that driving style


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    finbarrk wrote: »
    I think a PHEV is a better option for someone living in rural Ireland. Like me.

    Not really. It doesn't matter what part of Ireland you live in an electric or PHEV will suit depending on your driving style. You could live in the centre of Dublin and you might suit a diesel. Location is not the determining factor in which fuel best serves your needs


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭ AndyBoBandy


    kirving wrote: »
    I commute at least once a week Dublin-Galway return, and rent in both locations, where I can't install a charger.

    Dublin - Galway is the best served route in the country for DC fast charging along the route...


    This is filtered to CCS chargers.....
    556649.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ kaahooters


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Stick with diesel or move to full electric. A PHEV will not suit that driving style

    a phev is perfect for that, 30 - 35km runs with a longer run on weekends.

    your mad if you think there not.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    kaahooters wrote: »
    a phev is perfect for that, 30 - 35km runs with a longer run on weekends.

    your mad if you think there not.

    500km twice a week in a car that is carrying around a petrol engine, fuel, a electric motor and a big battery. Seems fairly pointless to me and you will end up causing more harm to environment burning petrol over the life of the car

    THe OP has two choices, full electric if they are willing to charge on those trips would be perfect. Or diesel will give you a better return over the life of the car if you have to continue with those long trips.


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ kaahooters


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    500km twice a week in a car that is carrying around a petrol engine, fuel, a electric motor and a big battery. Seems fairly pointless to me and you will end up causing more harm to environment burning petrol over the life of the car

    THe OP has two choices, full electric if they are willing to charge on those trips would be perfect. Or diesel will give you a better return over the life of the car if you have to continue with those long trips.

    a toyota hybrid would be better then a diesel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    500km twice a week in a car that is carrying around a petrol engine, fuel, a electric motor and a big battery. Seems fairly pointless to me and you will end up causing more harm to environment burning petrol over the life of the car

    THe OP has two choices, full electric if they are willing to charge on those trips would be perfect. Or diesel will give you a better return over the life of the car if you have to continue with those long trips.

    I drove ~700kms in my PHEV on Sunday and averaged 63mpg for the day (calculated from fill to fill). I would not have made that trip in a full EV as I am not willing to wait for a charge (like the OP has already said), so I find the PHEV is perfect. Other than our twice monthly 400km trip, most of my time is spent pottering around on battery power alone for almost 60kms per charge.

    As with all of these things, it is down to preference. I am not willing to spend the guts of 40k (certainly north of 30k anyway) to get an EV that will complete my regular twice monthly trip and then allow me to potter around during the week. I found a PHEV that suited my family, got it for a good price that I was willing to pay and I am very happy with the car. Incidentally, I had a Toyota hybrid before this car and it was fantastic on short and long journeys, albeit thirstier on a long trip. The lifetime average for that car was ~54mpg over 7 years.

    @OP: If your normal weekly trips are within the range of a PHEV (about 50 to 60kms) and you diligently charge the car when able to, then it could be a winner. On the longer trips, you have the security of a full tank of fuel and, if needed, can refuel in 5 minutes to be on your way again.

    Just my 2 cents. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭ kirving


    Dublin - Galway is the best served route in the country for DC fast charging along the route...

    No way am I buying a BEV without a home charger.

    My commute time is very predicable, and without a night rate, my saving per week would be ballpark €20 with an EV. Right now, I'm prepared to pay €1000 per year for the convenience of not relying on public chargers.

    With a night rate, I'd be saving around €31.5pw, which is more attractive of course, but I don't have that option anyway. With PHEV I get many advantages in that the car is a powerful enough, quiet, and smooth automatic, and didn't cost me much due to low VRT in 2020. I'm happy to take my €500 saving for now, and think about an EV later.

    400km Motorway
    100km Urban

    Petrol Only: €53
    PHEV Full Rate: €43
    BEV Full Rate: €23
    BEV Night Rate: €11.5

    556663.png


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    Miscreant wrote: »
    I drove ~700kms in my PHEV on Sunday and averaged 63mpg for the day (calculated from fill to fill). I would not have made that trip in a full EV as I am not willing to wait for a charge (like the OP has already said), so I find the PHEV is perfect. Other than our twice monthly 400km trip, most of my time is spent pottering around on battery power alone for almost 60kms per charge.

    As with all of these things, it is down to preference. I am not willing to spend the guts of 40k (certainly north of 30k anyway) to get an EV that will complete my regular twice monthly trip and then allow me to potter around during the week. I found a PHEV that suited my family, got it for a good price that I was willing to pay and I am very happy with the car. Incidentally, I had a Toyota hybrid before this car and it was fantastic on short and long journeys, albeit thirstier on a long trip. The lifetime average for that car was ~54mpg over 7 years.

    @OP: If your normal weekly trips are within the range of a PHEV (about 50 to 60kms) and you diligently charge the car when able to, then it could be a winner. On the longer trips, you have the security of a full tank of fuel and, if needed, can refuel in 5 minutes to be on your way again.

    Just my 2 cents. :)

    Which PHEV is doing 50-60km?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    Even the mid range trips are fairly good, 1 charge on night rate and a 75 km spin gave me 99 mpg. ( 50/50 back roads and N road.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ PaulRyan97


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Which PHEV is doing 50-60km?

    A lot of them are capable of doing that now. Hell, my GTE is quoting me 70km of range on a charge now, though it's usually closer to 60km in the real world.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭ butrasgali


    My superb phev is just about getting 50klm now ,with the good weather on a full charge


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭ MAULBROOK


    Our main car is a Octavia Diesel and when time comes im looking at a PHEV. Main to reasons are its used for short runs and we have a good solar setup for free top ups.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    Sorry I have driven and tested enough PHEV that I doubt unless you are driving like Miss Daisy you are getting above 50km.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭ butrasgali


    Look no further than the octavias big brother..lovely car all round.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ ineedeuro


    butrasgali wrote: »
    Look no further than the octavias big brother..lovely car all round.

    The OP drives a VW. I doubt they want to go backwards and into a Skoda.

    I expect you are talking about the Kodiaq? awful interior compared to the Tiguan and whoever came up with the idea of writing Skoda in big letter across the back should be shot.

    I seen one lad who had a black one and he had tried to black out the Skoda writing :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ PaulRyan97


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Sorry I have driven and tested enough PHEV that I doubt unless you are driving like Miss Daisy you are getting above 50km.....

    This statement is pretty pointless unless you detail what you drove.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Which PHEV is doing 50-60km?
    My Ioniq PHEV is regularly giving me over 50kms to a charge. Tipped over the 60 a couple of times with a really light foot and lots of regen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    butrasgali wrote: »
    Look no further than the octavias big brother..lovely car all round.

    For a phev. It's 6500 More than auto petrol and 7k more than the 2l diesel.


    Even if you save 30 a week that's 1500 a year so 4+ years to break even and that excludes any elec costs and higher interest repayments. It's aspirational and you would have to be militant about charging and not just get lazy.

    Best use for phev is to give extra fun for a nice boost. Because if you can afford 48k on a car you really don't need to 'save' money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭ User1998


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Sorry I have driven and tested enough PHEV that I doubt unless you are driving like Miss Daisy you are getting above 50km.....

    You obviously haven’t driven a PHEV released in the past few years then. Minimum 50km range is the norm now. 5+ years ago it was around 20km


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  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭ jeremyr62


    I have a 2021 Golf ehybrid with a claimed 13kWh battery. I can barely scrape 50km on the battery alone and that is in Summer driving with a limp right foot. When I got it in January it was about 40km. Not what I expected but the car is pretty good otherwise so I'll forgive it.


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