Is PHEV a reasonable choice in rural Ireland to replace a diesel?

batman1

Currently have a VW Tiguan highline, 2.0D 150bhp. Considering changing to start the journey into electric cars. However, living in rural Ireland the fully electric might cause issues as work can take us on long journeys into the very rural areas and stopping to charge could be problematic. It happened someone I know who was rural and went to charge on a charger they wasn't working. No other charger nearby.

I looked at the VW ID4 but it's big money for a similar spec.
I also looked at the Volvo XC40 plug in hybrid. Nice car but I'm no expert so the combination of petrol and electric seems to be crowned upon here!
I drove a few Toyota hybrids but they're not great.

Can anyone offer any experience of the Volvo or point me to some real world fuel consumption or electric range? I believe the petrol engine is a 1.5 litre, unlike the huge Toyota ones..

fits

PHEV are great if you mostly do short spins with occasional long trip but are not optimal for high mileage driver imo.


BEVs are the way forward in my opinion but you need to get the biggest range you can to allay any risks of not being able to get to any charger. That’s if you are not doing over 300 km in a day very regularly. And have good access to home/ work charging.

If regularly doing longer trips or overnights I’d probably stick with diesel.

ELM327

The ENiro and ESoul will have over 300km real world range even in the depths of winter.
I live rurally and used to do 50-60k km a year in an EV.

PaulRyan97

By long journeys, what sort of distance do you mean?

batman1

Since covid our car done 12000km, mostly short runs around the area, 30-35km maybe 2/3 times a week and the local shops etc. A couple of long runs last summer for staycation.

Pre covid the Mrs could be doing 500km round trip twice a week, visiting different rural areas. It's unlikely that will be the norm again but nothing is ever certain. If it stays as it is now, then it will be the 30-35km runs with a 250km round trip once or twice a month

finbarrk

I think a PHEV is a better option for someone living in rural Ireland. Like me.

Lantus

Your assessment is correct and the cost benefit of phev is dependant on regular 40km journeys which is the general battery capacity. It's also very dependant on having a normal car spend budget in that range. As you say Bev is expensive so if the glove doesn't fit.......

krissovo

finbarrk wrote: »

I think a PHEV is a better option for someone living in rural Ireland. Like me.

Why do you think that? I think rural is ideal for BEV, we have space to charge at home so always start full and typically we head into built up areas. I was doing a daily commute of 150km’s with a low range BEV (I3) no problem in the good old days.

finbarrk

I live about 300km from Dublin. We might go there a couple of times a year. I don't want the hassle of looking for a charge point. Use the engine for those trips. The PHEV will do around at home for travelling in and out of work. Going shopping, to matches, etc. Can charge for free at work.

kirving

krissovo wrote: »

Why do you think that? I think rural is ideal for BEV, we have space to charge at home so always start full and typically we head into built up areas. I was doing a daily commute of 150km’s with a low range BEV (I3) no problem in the good old days.

As the OP says, potential 500km round trips at unknown frequency are an issue.

At 750km per week of predictable commuting, the cost savings very easily offset any other drawbacks. Off the top of my head, probably a saving of €60 p/w vs a petrol (€75 - €15).

Doing just 90km per week, the cost savings driving a BEV are minimal.

For me, I'd save a good chunk of my running cost if I were to drive a BEV, but I can't live with other drawbacks. I commute at least once a week Dublin-Galway return, and rent in both locations, where I can't install a charger.

Charging the 330e with the Granny cable saves me between 10 and 15 per week, depending on how much I charge, and I get a nice quiet drive around Dublin city and my daily 10 min drive to work.

ineedeuro

batman1 wrote: »

Since covid our car done 12000km, mostly short runs around the area, 30-35km maybe 2/3 times a week and the local shops etc. A couple of long runs last summer for staycation.

Pre covid the Mrs could be doing 500km round trip twice a week, visiting different rural areas. It's unlikely that will be the norm again but nothing is ever certain. If it stays as it is now, then it will be the 30-35km runs with a 250km round trip once or twice a month

Stick with diesel or move to full electric. A PHEV will not suit that driving style

ineedeuro

finbarrk wrote: »

I think a PHEV is a better option for someone living in rural Ireland. Like me.

Not really. It doesn't matter what part of Ireland you live in an electric or PHEV will suit depending on your driving style. You could live in the centre of Dublin and you might suit a diesel. Location is not the determining factor in which fuel best serves your needs

AndyBoBandy

kirving wrote: »

I commute at least once a week Dublin-Galway return, and rent in both locations, where I can't install a charger.

Dublin - Galway is the best served route in the country for DC fast charging along the route...


This is filtered to CCS chargers.....

kaahooters

ineedeuro wrote: »

Stick with diesel or move to full electric. A PHEV will not suit that driving style

a phev is perfect for that, 30 - 35km runs with a longer run on weekends.

your mad if you think there not.

ineedeuro

kaahooters wrote: »

a phev is perfect for that, 30 - 35km runs with a longer run on weekends.

your mad if you think there not.

500km twice a week in a car that is carrying around a petrol engine, fuel, a electric motor and a big battery. Seems fairly pointless to me and you will end up causing more harm to environment burning petrol over the life of the car

THe OP has two choices, full electric if they are willing to charge on those trips would be perfect. Or diesel will give you a better return over the life of the car if you have to continue with those long trips.

kaahooters

ineedeuro wrote: »

500km twice a week in a car that is carrying around a petrol engine, fuel, a electric motor and a big battery. Seems fairly pointless to me and you will end up causing more harm to environment burning petrol over the life of the car

THe OP has two choices, full electric if they are willing to charge on those trips would be perfect. Or diesel will give you a better return over the life of the car if you have to continue with those long trips.

a toyota hybrid would be better then a diesel.

Miscreant

ineedeuro wrote: »

500km twice a week in a car that is carrying around a petrol engine, fuel, a electric motor and a big battery. Seems fairly pointless to me and you will end up causing more harm to environment burning petrol over the life of the car

THe OP has two choices, full electric if they are willing to charge on those trips would be perfect. Or diesel will give you a better return over the life of the car if you have to continue with those long trips.

I drove ~700kms in my PHEV on Sunday and averaged 63mpg for the day (calculated from fill to fill). I would not have made that trip in a full EV as I am not willing to wait for a charge (like the OP has already said), so I find the PHEV is perfect. Other than our twice monthly 400km trip, most of my time is spent pottering around on battery power alone for almost 60kms per charge.

As with all of these things, it is down to preference. I am not willing to spend the guts of 40k (certainly north of 30k anyway) to get an EV that will complete my regular twice monthly trip and then allow me to potter around during the week. I found a PHEV that suited my family, got it for a good price that I was willing to pay and I am very happy with the car. Incidentally, I had a Toyota hybrid before this car and it was fantastic on short and long journeys, albeit thirstier on a long trip. The lifetime average for that car was ~54mpg over 7 years.

@OP: If your normal weekly trips are within the range of a PHEV (about 50 to 60kms) and you diligently charge the car when able to, then it could be a winner. On the longer trips, you have the security of a full tank of fuel and, if needed, can refuel in 5 minutes to be on your way again.

Just my 2 cents.

kirving

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Dublin - Galway is the best served route in the country for DC fast charging along the route...

No way am I buying a BEV without a home charger.

My commute time is very predicable, and without a night rate, my saving per week would be ballpark €20 with an EV. Right now, I'm prepared to pay €1000 per year for the convenience of not relying on public chargers.

With a night rate, I'd be saving around €31.5pw, which is more attractive of course, but I don't have that option anyway. With PHEV I get many advantages in that the car is a powerful enough, quiet, and smooth automatic, and didn't cost me much due to low VRT in 2020. I'm happy to take my €500 saving for now, and think about an EV later.

400km Motorway
100km Urban

Petrol Only: €53
PHEV Full Rate: €43
BEV Full Rate: €23
BEV Night Rate: €11.5

ineedeuro

Miscreant wrote: »

I drove ~700kms in my PHEV on Sunday and averaged 63mpg for the day (calculated from fill to fill). I would not have made that trip in a full EV as I am not willing to wait for a charge (like the OP has already said), so I find the PHEV is perfect. Other than our twice monthly 400km trip, most of my time is spent pottering around on battery power alone for almost 60kms per charge.

As with all of these things, it is down to preference. I am not willing to spend the guts of 40k (certainly north of 30k anyway) to get an EV that will complete my regular twice monthly trip and then allow me to potter around during the week. I found a PHEV that suited my family, got it for a good price that I was willing to pay and I am very happy with the car. Incidentally, I had a Toyota hybrid before this car and it was fantastic on short and long journeys, albeit thirstier on a long trip. The lifetime average for that car was ~54mpg over 7 years.

@OP: If your normal weekly trips are within the range of a PHEV (about 50 to 60kms) and you diligently charge the car when able to, then it could be a winner. On the longer trips, you have the security of a full tank of fuel and, if needed, can refuel in 5 minutes to be on your way again.

Just my 2 cents.

Which PHEV is doing 50-60km?

kanuseeme

Even the mid range trips are fairly good, 1 charge on night rate and a 75 km spin gave me 99 mpg. ( 50/50 back roads and N road.)

PaulRyan97

ineedeuro wrote: »

Which PHEV is doing 50-60km?

A lot of them are capable of doing that now. Hell, my GTE is quoting me 70km of range on a charge now, though it's usually closer to 60km in the real world.

butrasgali

My superb phev is just about getting 50klm now ,with the good weather on a full charge

MAULBROOK

Our main car is a Octavia Diesel and when time comes im looking at a PHEV. Main to reasons are its used for short runs and we have a good solar setup for free top ups.

ineedeuro

Sorry I have driven and tested enough PHEV that I doubt unless you are driving like Miss Daisy you are getting above 50km.....

butrasgali

Look no further than the octavias big brother..lovely car all round.

ineedeuro

butrasgali wrote: »

Look no further than the octavias big brother..lovely car all round.

The OP drives a VW. I doubt they want to go backwards and into a Skoda.

I expect you are talking about the Kodiaq? awful interior compared to the Tiguan and whoever came up with the idea of writing Skoda in big letter across the back should be shot.

I seen one lad who had a black one and he had tried to black out the Skoda writing :P

PaulRyan97

ineedeuro wrote: »

Sorry I have driven and tested enough PHEV that I doubt unless you are driving like Miss Daisy you are getting above 50km.....

This statement is pretty pointless unless you detail what you drove.

Miscreant

ineedeuro wrote: »

Which PHEV is doing 50-60km?

My Ioniq PHEV is regularly giving me over 50kms to a charge. Tipped over the 60 a couple of times with a really light foot and lots of regen.

Lantus

butrasgali wrote: »

Look no further than the octavias big brother..lovely car all round.

For a phev. It's 6500 More than auto petrol and 7k more than the 2l diesel.


Even if you save 30 a week that's 1500 a year so 4+ years to break even and that excludes any elec costs and higher interest repayments. It's aspirational and you would have to be militant about charging and not just get lazy.

Best use for phev is to give extra fun for a nice boost. Because if you can afford 48k on a car you really don't need to 'save' money.

User1998

ineedeuro wrote: »

Sorry I have driven and tested enough PHEV that I doubt unless you are driving like Miss Daisy you are getting above 50km.....

You obviously haven’t driven a PHEV released in the past few years then. Minimum 50km range is the norm now. 5+ years ago it was around 20km

jeremyr62

I have a 2021 Golf ehybrid with a claimed 13kWh battery. I can barely scrape 50km on the battery alone and that is in Summer driving with a limp right foot. When I got it in January it was about 40km. Not what I expected but the car is pretty good otherwise so I'll forgive it.

turnfan

Stay with your current car until a BEV meets your needs. Save all those repayments in between to get the BEV you like, when the time comes.

What's with this "start your electric journey" it's Toyota's marketing jargon to get you to part with cash now for a hybrid.

Rural Ireland has the space for solar and home chargers, the pity is the cars will be at work during the day, so unless you could solar charge at work - you'd have to buy 2 BEVs and use on alternate days

PaulRyan97

jeremyr62 wrote: »

I have a 2021 Golf ehybrid with a claimed 13kWh battery. I can barely scrape 50km on the battery alone and that is in Summer driving with a limp right foot. When I got it in January it was about 40km. Not what I expected but the car is pretty good otherwise so I'll forgive it.

I've a 2021 GTE, which is less efficient and I've no trouble getting at least 50km off a charge. My average for the last few weeks has been ~55km. Though I usually toss it in Eco mode once I'm up to speed.

jeremyr62

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

I've a 2021 GTE, which is less efficient and I've no trouble getting at least 50km off a charge. My average for the last few weeks has been ~55km. Though I usually toss it in Eco mode once I'm up to speed.

Less efficient how? You have a more powerful electric motor but that's it AFAIK. I would expect the GTE and the eHybrid to get similar range which they appear to when you take into consideration driving styles. Can't say I ever use ECO mode. Maybe I'll give that a go.

PaulRyan97

jeremyr62 wrote: »

Less efficient how? You have a more powerful electric motor but that's it AFAIK. I would expect the GTE and the eHybrid to get similar range which they appear to when you take into consideration driving styles. Can't say I ever use ECO mode. Maybe I'll give that a go.

Well the car is a bit heavier than the eHybrid, plus I've some options that reduce the efficency, 18" alloys, sunroof etc. If I remember correctly I think the eHybrid gets nearly 10km more electric range under WLTP.

butrasgali

ineedeuro wrote:

I seen one lad who had a black one and he had tried to black out the Skoda writing

ineedeuro wrote:

I expect you are talking about the Kodiaq? awful interior compared to the Tiguan and whoever came up with the idea of writing Skoda in big letter across the back should be shot.

The superb would be a big brother to the octavia..just goes to show ,some people don't know the difference between a car and a suv..the skoda is a much better car than the vw .IMO

butrasgali

Lantus wrote:

Even if you save 30 a week that's 1500 a year so 4+ years to break even and that excludes any elec costs and higher interest repayments. It's aspirational and you would have to be militant about charging and not just get lazy.

Lantus wrote:

Best use for phev is to give extra fun for a nice boost. Because if you can afford 48k on a car you really don't need to 'save' money.

Lantus wrote:

For a phev. It's 6500 More than auto petrol and 7k more than the 2l diesel.

I bought a superb phev 6 months old ,40 k..equivalent diesel was exactly the same price..the phev had a sunroof and more importantly dcc,,so it was a no brainer for me.im currently getting 75 mpg,which is great and it's an animal to go..

butrasgali

I did have the choice of 2 6 month old superb sportlines..bother 40 k..1 diesel and the phev..I went for the phev..sunroof and dcc were on the phev..and it's lovely to drive..75 mpg at the moment 😀

Squeaksoutloud

Looking at XC40 but prob holding off due to finances. Was looking at the price list and the PHEV seems to be well priced versus the equivalent auto diesel model. With 0% and the grant until end of June..as well as a good lounge pack with sunroof I'd be all over it. But that's just because I want one and will be looking at changing an aging diesel V40.

kanuseeme

Just because a similar petrol or diesel is cheaper does not mean that 4 years down the road they will both be worth the same.

Depreciation will be a similar % drop on both.

Take the e- niro, 40k for the EV version and the plug in niro is 33k , in 4 years time both will only be worth half of the original price

ineedeuro

butrasgali wrote: »

The superb would be a big brother to the octavia..just goes to show ,some people don't know the difference between a car and a suv..the skoda is a much better car than the vw .IMO

Well I would call the Superb a bigger brother but that’s why I said “I expect”

I am not surprised a Skoda owner says they are better then VW, I also see Skoda owners say they are better than Audi.

daheff

kaahooters wrote: »

a phev is perfect for that, 30 - 35km runs with a longer run on weekends.

your mad if you think there not.

Agreed 100%.

Bought one for just this reason.

Precovid I had a 35km each way journey to work. I could recharge at work.

Petrol engine only used for longer trips at the weekend.

butrasgali

All good surveys tell you which are better, between the vw family..

I have a PHEV, picked it up first week of March. Since then I have filled the tank only 4 times, twice for 400km journeys. I drive average of 25km per day so it is costing me buttons to run a heavy 4x4 on its EV charge. With reduced tax/VRT, it is a no brainer.

finbarrk

butrasgali wrote: »

I bought a superb phev 6 months old ,40 k..equivalent diesel was exactly the same price..the phev had a sunroof and more importantly dcc,,so it was a no brainer for me.im currently getting 75 mpg,which is great and it's an animal to go..

I went investigating prices yesterday on the Skoda Ireland website. A diesel one similar to the one I own at the moment is €38,400. But a PHEV one is €48,200. Too much of a hike to justify buying one. I can't understand how you say they were similar prices.

Lantus

ineedeuro wrote: »

Well I would call the Superb a bigger brother but that’s why I said “I expect”

I am not surprised a Skoda owner says they are better then VW, I also see Skoda owners say they are better than Audi.

Some say comparable to a 5 series.....

ineedeuro

Lantus wrote: »

Some say comparable to a 5 series.....

butrasgali

Have a look on done deal..I counted about 10 superb ,diesel and phev on it..some of the phevs are cheaper than the 2 litre diesels..I've always had a diesel, last car was the scout..so when I saw the 2 at identical priced cars sitting in the forecourt..the extras in the phev swung It for me..

butrasgali

The price for the diesel sportline superb is about 45 grand on the website..not sure what model you are pricing at

ineedeuro

butrasgali wrote: »

The price for the diesel sportline superb is about 45 grand on the website..not sure what model you are pricing at

I see the Skoda supporters club has moved across to the Electric car forum.
Just a question, has the OP at any stage mentioned they would like a Skoda? especially a car to replace a Crossover when most people never move back.

butrasgali

OK point taken,..the vw group do have a great range to choose from ..hybrid or electric..