Steven Spielberg's West Side Story

branie2

I saw it yesterday, and I really enjoyed it.

santana75

Saw this earlier and it was just not my thing. I found myself drifting off, couldn't really get into it. But what do I know, there Was significant amounts of sniffling coming from the row of ladies seated behind me so I'd venture to guess that I'm not the target demographic here.

silverharp

it appears to be having a poor opening, Spielberg didnt allow subtitles for the Spanish because it would give English power over it, lol what has he been smoking

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308569#Comment_118308569

That's hardly a factor in its underperformance. It's an adaptation of a movie most people aged over 40 haven't seen, and those who have seen the original seem as though a remake was unncessary. Add in a lack of stars in the cast and there's no reason it should have been expected to do more than fellow flop In The Heights.

Sad Professor

Worse opening than In the Heights. Ouch! I guess that's the end of big studio musicals for a while.

speedboatchase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311238#Comment_118311238

Wicked will do well because it has Ariana Grande. In The Heights, West Side Story and Dear Evan Hansen had one thing in common: zero stars.

johnny_ultimate

This is definitely the most I've enjoyed a Spielberg blockbuster in quite some time. There's a real energy to the filmmaking, and he isn't overindulging in the SFX like almost all his recent 'blockbuster' efforts have. Indeed, there's a proper physicality to the filmmaking - Janusz Kamiński's camera is constantly swooping in glorious crane shots or indulging in wide shots full of movement and colour. Spielberg isn't cutting frantically like many modern musical filmmakers, so there's lots of space for the choreography and set design to do their job without distraction.

I think most of the changes from the original are well-judged and effective. The change of context and setting for 'Cool' is excellent, and the 'Officer Krupke' (a song I adore, with some thanks to Larry David!), ‘America’ and 'I Feel Pretty’ set pieces also benefit from a new take. I think the extra emphasis on Spanish language is a fitting and impactful thematic choice too: it gives the Puerto Rican characters more power over the English-only characters (and by extend a non Spanish speaking audience too).

The weak point of it all is probably Elgort, who I don’t think really works. Zegler’s superb though, and ditto most of the rest of the cast (even if only a few have much to do).

I don’t think it surpasses the original - the opening sequence of the 1961 film in particular is so **** good that I don’t think Spielberg even tries to top it. That film still feels startlingly modern in so many ways. But it’s an interesting and fresh take while still being extremely loyal to the source material. It definitely has more grit here - there’s more of a sense of danger and violence to the central conflict. Mostly it was refreshing to see Spielberg being really old fashioned, without leaning too heavily on new tech. As much as all remakes are fundamentally redundant and familiar, this is nonetheless a good and entertaining version of a familiar classic.

KevMayo88

Given that the movie has been a financial disaster, I would imagine that the studio will insist on updating the movie prints to include subtitles in order to try and recoup some revenue over the Christmas season. Subtitling a film does not show disrespect for a language, it shows respect for it, and the dialogue of the characters.

Sad Professor

What are we talking about, a few scenes in Spanish where it’s probably perfectly clear what they are talking about or half the movie? If the former then I doubt it had anything to do with the box office results.

Spielberg just doesn’t like subtitles. I assume his preference would have been not to have any significant Spanish dialogue but that’s not really possible with a film like this in 2021 unless you want to get yourself and your film cancelled.

johnny_ultimate

The film is an English language film. The Spanish-speaking characters tend to throw in the odd Spanish word or Spanish sentence. There are a few scenes where the Sharks use Spanish to gain a tactical or psychological advantage over the Jets or police, and a few others where Anita scolds her friends for drifting into Spanish during casual conversation as she believes they should be speaking English.

The film and plot and characters and moment-to-moment drama / emotions are entirely understandable without subtitles for those bits. It’d be absolute madness for anyone to not go to see the film because of the lack of subtitles.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311238#Comment_118311238

It's funny how the Big Studio Musical seems to swing back into fashion every few years. Wonder why that is: we're far from the truly high-point, such that we'll never again see another Hello Dolly scale disaster - but still. It's a funny genre that comes in waves.

Sad Professor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118315885#Comment_118315885

Yeah and I guess that's part of the reason why Spielberg was so hesitant to make a musical in the first place. He kinda prides himself on knowing what audiences want (most of the time) and it looks like he really misjudged this one.

I am not sure it can be entirely explained by audiences not being interested in big studio musicals right now though. I think the "boomer nostalgia" factor was a big one in turning off younger viewers.

The Black Oil

Is there something that helps a musical's success, word of mouth? I wouldn't have thought language or subtitles would be a particular barrier, given the solid success of the likes of Sicario. Maybe some just said 'Spielberg, doing a musical? Not having that'. The state of the world probably isn't helping.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317209#Comment_118317209

It's a real shame.

The pandemic has clearly hit it. I think a film like this would draw an older audience who will still be a tad nervous to go to the cinema.

I remember maybe two or three small sections with Spanish but it didn't bother me at all, I speak a bit of it so wasn't lost, even if you don't I wouldn't see it as an issue, it was fairly obvious to get the gist.

Maybe the good word of mouth and awards can give it some legs, musicals can sometimes hang around a long time, but I can't see it doing something like the greatest showman, the songs just wouldn't have that radio friendly broad appeal.

Chris_Heilong

I heard it was completely Woke-washed using current day talking points that do not fit in with the time it takes place, there is also a decision by Spielberg to not subtitle the Spanish in the US which is nuts if true. I liked the original but think I will give this one a miss as I dont think it needed to be remade, none of the classic do.

Hontou

Saw it last night. It was glorious. I'm a huge fan of the original so had very high expectations, but was not disappointed. The dancing was astounding......again. It felt dark and sinister in the second half - which really added to the atmosphere of a heartbreaking, violent story. Some parts were better than the original - "Officer Krupke" was a high point. Ansel Elgort is a better Tony than Richard Beymer was. The Bernardo and Riff characters are grittier in this version. Ariana DeBose as Anita was every bit as fabulous as Rita Moreno in the original. (Spoiler alert) The "I Feel Pretty" scene was hard to watch after the Rumble scene. I'm guessing that was done on purpose. It felt like an ode to the original rather than a remake. I'll go and see it again.

johnny_ultimate

God give me the confidence of someone who decides to complain publicly about how 'woke' a film they haven't watched is :)

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318210#Comment_118318210

I have never heard that term before...but I would say judge it yourself rather than listening to nonsense like that. I thought it was better than the original.

Kingp35

IMC Cinemas don't seem to showing this for some reason.

Chris_Heilong

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318369#Comment_118318369

Dude get over yourself, It is my opinion and is probably best not to gatekeep the forum. I gave reasons why I might not watch it, I never said you cant enjoy it. I come here for different opinions and do read what others have said, If someone says yeah there is a little bit but it is not that bad then I might watch at some stage.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118318322#Comment_118318322

This is what I wanted to hear when I clicked into the thread. Going to see it ASAP, usually don't like to see things re-made, when they have been made perfectly the first time around... but I'm all in for this one!

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118320588#Comment_118320588

I just honestly find it frustrating when yet another discussion about films gets drowned out by IMO hyperbolic 'anti-woke' complaints - often before people have seen the film! I think it's fair enough to suggest it's worth giving the film a look before weighing in with an opinion about what it gets wrong / right :)

The film is an interesting take on the material with a handful of modern (and for my money entirely sensible and logical) updates. I mean, I don't think anyone would argue casting actual Latino actors rather than relying on 'brown face' makeup is a bad call, nor that original film star Rita Moreno is a more interesting casting choice as Doc's wife rather than a mere lazy gender swap. Indeed, I think that casting choice is extremely smart as it adds rich metatextual substance to some of the later scenes (plus one of the strongest songs of the film).

But ultimately it's an extremely loyal take on a classic story. Like I find it hard to imagine anyone thinking Spielberg has radically transformed the material despite the tweaks. It's worth a look for anyone who did enjoy the original, as *by far* the biggest changes to the source material are how scenes / songs are framed or narratively recontextualised within the structure of the original story.

The Phantom Pain

Ok, so I was very much against this remake from the word 'go'. Not even Spielberg could justify doing it because the original is one of the greatest films ever made IMO, and the only take on Romeo and Juliet I've ever liked. However, this is on Disney + now so I had to check it out. It's...fine. Not as good as the original but about what you would expect from the (so-called) greatest director of all time. In less capable hands like, I dunno, GUY RITCHIE, it would have been a disaster but in Spielberg's it's adequate.

Everything that I liked about it was everything that was in the original. The only thing new that I thought was good was the casting of the original Anita actress as Doc's wife which was a clever choice. I usually hate gender swaps but here it felt organic. Now, here's what I didn't like about it:

• I hate Ansel Elgort so much that I think I'm gonna die from it. I have never seen a face more slappable on camera. Every single time I saw his smarmy little mug I wanted to punch him in his platypus mouth. I actually forgot he was in this so when he first appeared on screen my heart sank. I couldn't stand him in Baby Driver and The Fault in Our Stars and he's just unbearable here. Also, he's a disgusting person in real life so now my irrational hatred of him is entirely justified. It was so awkward that Chino is clearly the better option for Maria in every way, but I guess some gals are just drawn to trash.
• Aside from the leader of the Jets, the other performances were weak in comparison to the original. No life behind the eyes, passionless. Even 'America' was low energy FFS. The dancing overall was well shot but the dancing, itself, wasn't as strong as the original performers. In the original even spoken dialogue felt musical and rhythmic so whenever the characters did launch into song it felt natural. Also, his rendition of 'Maria' (my fave song) was way too fast. It's the buildup and lighting and just how in-the-moment Richard Beymer is in that entire sequence that makes the skin tingle every time. Spielberg blew through it and then proceeded to ruin the crescendos with loud environmental sounds, almost as if he was trying to hide the fact that Ansel Idiot isn't a very good singer...
• Why was Tony in 'Cool'? And why did Spielberg change the entire context for it???
• The problem with giving the characters more depth is that now their reasoning is too easy to pick apart. The original was very much of the times so you can forgive a lot of the glaring problematic issues it overlooks. For instance, in the original, Tony never comes to terms with the fact that he was previously part of a racist gang; he literally switches on a dime due to the power of the p*ssy. Now, with these self reflective moments he comes across as even more of an arsehole for trying to justify his and his friend's racism ( "tHeY nEvEr hAd aNy hOpE" ) proving that people like this don't change. His whitesplaining to Bernado at the rumble was also hilarious: "it's not about skin!" Really? Because I think when your buddies are calling the Sharks the s word and sexually assaulting Bernado's "black pig" girlfriend it's very much about skin. Oh, and they even make out that he is nice to the trans character when in the original he never accepted him (trans person) as one of them, and at one point he even told him to piss off because he's a girl and should go "be a girl". You can't have that now because dismissing a trans character in 2022 (or 2021 when it was released) will make the lead instantly villainous (but beating someone to a pulp and murdering your girlfriend's brother are just "character flaws"). Both he and Maria are so unlikeable in this one that I clapped when Anita slapped Maria. Whereas in the original I was rooting for the lovers every time despite knowing how the film ends. In short, there's no way to justify what Tony has done so it's best to just ignore it. The original understood that. This remake doesn't.
• Speaking of the trans character, they try to make him sympathetic because, guys, he too should get to feel part of the little gang of racists. Don't hog it, fellas, white supremacy should be shared amongst all! What? In the original, the trans character was as horrible as the cis gendered males and even participated in the attempted rape. Now the trans person is warning Anita to leave the shop. 🤣 🤣 🤣 How is it that a 1961 film understands that being part of a marginalised group doesn't make you immune to prejudices of your own but this 2021 remake does not? Are trans people that untouchable with white liberals now that we're just gonna pretend they can't be racist? What is this? 😂
• When the white women were trying to stop the attempted rape. 🤣🤣🤣 Again, I'm sorry, I know I shouldn't given the subject matter, but I laughed out loud. That would literally never happen and it's not in the original either. In the original they hated the Puerto Ricans just as much as the blokes did. It would have been more authentic if they were cheering it on. It's insulting to the intelligence of the audience.
• The overuse of film grain and black bars to make the movie look "classic" only highlights why this film should not have been made. If you're gonna do this why not modernise it entirely? I have the original for that.

I'm very happy it bombed at the box office, I can't lie. Let this be a warning to any director who has the audacity to remake legendary films for no other purpose than to massage their own ego: don't ever do this again. Those of us who love these films aren't here for it and we won't show up for it. Save your money like we saved ours.