Fuelling for cycles

dinneenp

MayoSalmon wrote: »

What is it with cyclists constantly overestimating their calorific consumption on long rides?

You never see runners wanting to bring packed lunches with them on 30k+ long runs yet cyclists on 100k spins are consuming in and around the same calories and think they need to bring the whole of aldi with them..lol

I blame the media, a lot of inches on eating for your cycle, talk of bonking etc. read a few articles on nurishmsnt for long cycles & got slightly difderent answers.

Re why don't runners eat while out- they don't eat while running as they don't have handy pockets built into their t-shirts!

It's my first 100km so after this I'll know for future long spins.

Enduro

Christ, a lot of cyclists have so many bad habits!

I can't remember the last time I ate on a cycle. That would includes lots of long hilly Wicklow efforts, big days out in Tenerife and GC, trips out to Athlone from Dublin etc etc.

Do you realise that you don't have to consume the energy you burn when you exercise whilst you're exercising. The human body is well able to deal with expending more energy than you're consuming for a long long long time. Measured with a calendar, not a watch. It's actually the human specialty. We have crap speed, but are the best persistence hunters (on land anyway).

dinneenp

Enduro wrote: »

We have crap speed, but are the best persistence hunters (on land anyway).

Surprisingly a human would beat an animal in a marathon. Our sweating system or something like that is our advantage.

Enduro

dinneenp wrote: »

Surprisingly a human would beat an animal in a marathon. Our sweating system or something like that is our advantage.

Yeah, there are actually "Man versus Horse" races (Should really be person versus horse!). Once you make it long enough it becomes an easy win for the human. I've plenty of personal experience of running for 24 hours without eating anything (which is considerably more energy-consuming than a 100km cycle).

I had rice crispy buns on my spin today as some easter eggs we bought in bulk when they were cheap hadn't been scoffed. We hid them from the kids then forgot them until the other day

I leave home with a banana and a rice cakes normally IF i bother to bring anything. If I head out in the morning I'd have had a coffee, and a bowl of porridge or wheetabix with fruit in it.

If you're necking gels and drinks for the love of god think of your teeth when you get home!!!!!!

Wishbone Ash

Jesus lads, a lots of faffing about with transporting food, home cooking :eek: and general overthinking about nutrition. Just stop at a shop/filling station and get a Mars bar and can of full fat Coke and a pack of Fruit Pastilles. Life's way to short to be planning about what you need to eat.

km991148

MayoSalmon wrote: »

What is it with cyclists constantly overestimating their calorific consumption on long rides?

You never see runners wanting to bring packed lunches with them on 30k+ long runs yet cyclists on 100k spins are consuming in and around the same calories and think they need to bring the whole of aldi with them..lol

Because cakes are brilliant!

MangleBadger

There is also the question of what is necessary versus what is optimal.
Can you do a 100km cycle without any food? Yes. Will you perform better if you eat during the ride. Also yes.

Same as hydration.

Enduro

MangleBadger wrote: »

There is also the question of what is necessary versus what is optimal.
Can you do a 100km cycle without any food? Yes. Will you perform better if you eat during the ride. Also yes.

Same as hydration.

Actually, It's not a given that you will perform better if you eat. I've certainly used competitor's "need" to eat against them in races.

silverharp

a 65km today, packet of cheese slices and 2 hard boiled eggs, it was my lunch so not extra as such. I normally bring one water bottle with salt and potassium added maybe some magnesium if I remember

MangleBadger

Enduro wrote: »

Actually, It's not a given that you will perform better if you eat. I've certainly used competitor's "need" to eat against them in races.

How is that?

Wildly Boaring

Enduro wrote: »

. I've plenty of personal experience of running for 24 hours without eating anythingl

On purpose?
Or for science?

MayoSalmon

Enduro wrote: »

Actually, It's not a given that you will perform better if you eat. I've certainly used competitor's "need" to eat against them in races.

What is a given is your recovery will be a lot longer and harder if you don't eat so depending on your training that is a massive consideration..

CramCycle

Everyone's different and unless at high level as an athlete, most of us will be fine with whatever we take out. I done 70km yesterday and all I had was a bidon of water. I have done 100km races where I have eaten nothing and the same where I have eaten a packet of Haribo Tangfastic (share bag size). Long story short, there are so many variables in regards intensity, distance, what you want to achieve after the ride, risk of being stranded etc. that none of you are right or wrong.

My own preference is the longer the ride, the less processed the food for me, so if doing Audax length rides, I try and aim for a cafe at different points. If its shorter and under 3 hours, not sure I'd bring anything except emergency bonking supplies. This is a personal preference and not the correct choice though.

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

Everyone's different and unless at high level as an athlete, most of us will be fine with whatever we take out.

this is the thing; much as I know Enduro knows what he is talking about, he's operating at a level which very few others on this forum are, and there's gotta be a certain amount of conditioning going on there.

i've 'bonked' (hate the term) a couple of times - both times when i've gone out and stayed out longer than expected. last time was when i went out to do what i expected was to be about 75km a few years back, but stayed out for around 100km i think (it was an all ireland final day, so the roads were gloriously quiet). so i'd probably last eaten around the 50km mark. when i hit about the 85km mark, the speed i could sustain fell fairly quickly by 5-10km/h on the flat, i couldn't go faster than maybe 20 or 25km/h without serious effort; i had started to recover maybe 5km before i got home.
as i'm not training for any events, or am seeking to push through that and condition my body, i stick to the routine of a banana an hour (or every 45 minutes if i know i'm going to be pushing harder than normal)

JimmiesRustled

Personally I'd always aim for 60 grams of carbs per hour in training. So a breakdown of that for a 5 hour ride would be:

Hour 0 - 1: Nothing

Hour 1 - 2: Half a cliff bar, half a bottle (Cliff bar has 40 grams of carbs, bottle has 80 grams of carbs so half and half is 60 grams.)

Hour 2 - 3: Finish the other half of the cliff bar and bottle.

Hour 3 - 4: Half a cliff bar, half a bottle.

Hour 4 - 5: Finish the other half of the cliff bar and bottle.

I see some saying you don't need any food on a spin and yeah you can get away with it but unless you're going down the fasted route (intermittent fasting, no breakfast, no eating on the ride etc) then you really should be eating as you won't be adapted to burn fat as efficiently.

Racing would be slightly more than 60 grams of carbs per hour and a little less structured. I try and stay as far away from gels as possible unless racing.

jethrothe2nd

I also think it comes down to knowing your own body and what works for you. I eat healthily but tbh I really don't know if what and when I am eating is optimal for the cycling I do. What I do know though is that anything up to 50km I don't need anything other than water. 50-70 add a banana and anything over that either a second banana or something that I can keep nibbling on. Sometimes a stop for a sandwich.

dahat

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

Personally I'd always aim for 60 grams of carbs per hour in training. So a breakdown of that for a 5 hour ride would be:

Hour 0 - 1: Nothing

Hour 1 - 2: Half a cliff bar, half a bottle (Cliff bar has 40 grams of carbs, bottle has 80 grams of carbs so half and half is 60 grams.)

Hour 2 - 3: Finish the other half of the cliff bar and bottle.

Hour 3 - 4: Half a cliff bar, half a bottle.

Hour 4 - 5: Finish the other half of the cliff bar and bottle.

I see some saying you don't need any food on a spin and yeah you can get away with it but unless you're going down the fasted route (intermittent fasting, no breakfast, no eating on the ride etc) then you really should be eating as you won't be adapted to burn fat as efficiently.

Racing would be slightly more than 60 grams of carbs per hour and a little less structured. I try and stay as far away from gels as possible unless racing.

Excellent post & something i try aim for as well but likely consume more. I think it's the fear of going bang in the ast 60mins of an spin with efforts in that hour has me cosuming a little over.

oisinog

Seth Brundle wrote: »

To be honest you possibly have enough there. I'd only bring two or three bananas. Are you stopping for a picnic?
More importantly, have enough water. If needs be, fill up as you pass a GAA club as they always have outside taps.

Do you know what I have been around GAA clubs all my life and I have never though of stopping for Water. Thanks for the great Idea

Weepsie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Jesus lads, a lots of faffing about with transporting food, home cooking :eek: and general overthinking about nutrition. Just stop at a shop/filling station and get a Mars bar and can of full fat Coke and a pack of Fruit Pastilles. Life's way to short to be planning about what you need to eat.

Few things more miserable to me on a cycle than stopping in some crap filling station or shop. It's the last resort for me personally.

Wishbone Ash

Enduro wrote: »

Christ, a lot of cyclists have so many bad habits....

When did eating become a bad habit?

CantGetNoSleep

For 90-100k, I tend to go for a small bar after 1hr/1hr 15. Stop half way and eat a banana. Then I would normally have another bar and a gel with me. Eating the second bar depends on how tough the ride is, e.g. if I am with a fast group but I would probably eat it more often than not. The gel is really for emergencies only, I probably only have one less than one in ten rides and often it gets thrown out after puncturing having been in the jersey pocket for weeks at a time. When you need it is is really worth having though, e.g. with 25km to go on a rainy day

JimmiesRustled

dahat wrote: »

Excellent post & something i try aim for as well but likely consume more. I think it's the fear of going bang in the ast 60mins of an spin with efforts in that hour has me cosuming a little over.

To be honest, IMO, you're better off eating a bit more and completing the efforts than eating less and failing. Really just about trial and error. 60 grams of carbs per hour is enough for me to get through 4 - 5 hours with 3 - 4 10 minute tempo/threshold efforts at the end.

I generally tend to try and make sure I get 80 grams of carbs per hour in a race. This does change up the fuelling strategy though as, to be able to absorb 80 grams of carbs per hour I use a 2:1 ratio of maltodextrin to glucose otherwise I get an upset stomach. There's a pretty decent study on absorption rates done by Hammer nutrition, linked below.

https://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/advanced-knowledge/carbohydrates-101

All the above still doesn't stop me from getting dropped in races though

Brian?

JimmiesRustled wrote: »

Personally I'd always aim for 60 grams of carbs per hour in training. So a breakdown of that for a 5 hour ride would be:

Hour 0 - 1: Nothing

Hour 1 - 2: Half a cliff bar, half a bottle (Cliff bar has 40 grams of carbs, bottle has 80 grams of carbs so half and half is 60 grams.)

Hour 2 - 3: Finish the other half of the cliff bar and bottle.

Hour 3 - 4: Half a cliff bar, half a bottle.

Hour 4 - 5: Finish the other half of the cliff bar and bottle.

I see some saying you don't need any food on a spin and yeah you can get away with it but unless you're going down the fasted route (intermittent fasting, no breakfast, no eating on the ride etc) then you really should be eating as you won't be adapted to burn fat as efficiently.

Racing would be slightly more than 60 grams of carbs per hour and a little less structured. I try and stay as far away from gels as possible unless racing.

Severe lack of Turkish delight in there.

dinneenp

Enduro wrote: »

I've plenty of personal experience of running for 24 hours without eating anything (which is considerably more energy-consuming than a 100km cycle).

I'm also curious about this. Do you run ultra marathons or something like that?

On a side note, if you haven't seen this I think you'd like it- The Barkley Marathons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQmoxlUy33A

iwillhtfu

dinneenp wrote: »

I'm also curious about this. Do you run ultra marathons or something like that?

Didn't Enduro do something silly like run Mizen-Malin or something along those lines.:P Runners are a curious breed but reading some of the comments on here has me thinking perhaps it's a cyclist thing also. Eating like a pro doesn't make you a pro

For 100km a simple snack should suffice more because your mind is telling you that you should be eating something. Hydration is key for me particularly on these hot days, I wouldn't go out without a electrolyte tab in one bottle if doing 2hrs+ another fella I'd go out with would bring one bidon and barely sip out of it.

It's all relative though I guess, a 100km at a high pace is a lot different than 100km just pootling along enjoying the scenery and the simplicity of riding you bike.

Large bottle small glass

dinneenp wrote: »

I'm also curious about this. Do you run ultra marathons or something like that?

On a side note, if you haven't seen this I think you'd like it- The Barkley Marathons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQmoxlUy33A

@Enduro has competed in it.

Graveyards and churches are my preferred option over GAA pitches for water

Plastik

If you know where you're looking you'll see Enduro competing at the Barkley.

I don't tend to bring much on the bike. My Sat spin this week was 115km/2050m/29avg in the Wicklow mountains and for that I had 2x500ml bottles of water/dash of cordial, and two 90cal cereal bars of some description from whatever was to hand in the cupboard when I was leaving. For a flatter spin I'd probably just bring a banana.

dinneenp

Plastik wrote: »

If you know where you're looking you'll see Enduro competing at the Barkley.

If I knew what he looks like and I know where I'm looking.....

Major respect to him for competing in it.

iwillhtfu

Plastik wrote: »

If you know where you're looking you'll see Enduro competing at the Barkley.

Art O Neill has got to be a give away.