Should have stayed child-free

secman

Thanks for your response OP, i hope i didn't come across badly or condescending to you, absolutely not my intention. As one of the responses mentioned during our life there are periods that we don't enjoy, we had a very difficult time with one of our 2 children, thankfully that "child" has turned their life around and we now have a 3rd grandchild , you will learn in time OP that grandchildren are a blessing, totally different to children, you can give them back
Anyways glad to hear that you have found it helpful and insightful that you put your thoughts on paper.
Best of luck.

mfceiling

Fair play to admitting that.

I'll be honest and say I've often thought it too. 3 girls (youngest nearly 12, eldest nearly 16 and the middle nearly 14).
The early years were hell. No respite at all. Middle of a recession, screaming babies, and lack of sleep didn't have us in a good place.
The years have went by and gradually they don't rely on you as much (financially more though!!).

The "spark" has come back somewhat because we make time for each other. We walk together, talk together, watch the same TV shows together. It has been difficult but here we are.

My wife commented on a walk last week "we should get the girls to come with us next week". I replied "not going to happen...no teenager wants to go on a walk with their parents".

Time flies past and gradually your old life sort of returns. 2019 we took our first foreign break on our own in 15 years (Lisbon) for a few days on our own. We had a brilliant weekend even though we occasionally dropped in a "the girls would love this".

I hope it works out for you in the future OP.

Kaybaykwah

What strikes me is the thought of not being able to visit Europe's capitals in the short to mid-term. I mean, you don't have to go back that far to a time when people only gravitated a coupla kms from their homestead, council house, rowhome, etc...

We have gotten used to more freedom as implied by those who sell us this idea of freedom but, it's all about the abundance of choices, and the steps we take in life.

I think what bothered me when my kids were growing up was the two boys fighting, not getting along. It time this alll changed to a more positive relationship. They are now buddies, but when one does something the other doesn't like, they can still go at it, in their twenties. They are both living the good life with us, have their cars and good jobs, but need to be reminded of their duties around the house. My younger son is 22, and a mechanic, he has a hobby car he fiddles with, and travels many miles with his regular car to fetch parts. He has time to do tuning and repairs but very little to set the garage straight. I have been asking him to clean up, but the inkling of an enlightenment are only beginning to appear.

In short, it is best o make the best of it, the warmth of a little family life. If ypour circumstances are not worse than what you have stated, OP; it really bears reminding ourselves that the universe and its workings only make sense when we put a meaning to it all.

eviltwin

You're kids are very young and at a very demanding age OP so hopefully it won't always be this way for you. I'm coming out the other side - one almost a teen and the other in her mid 20's - and life has settled down to a point where things are really great. It does help hugely when you're kids become independent and you don't need to be so hands on.

There is always a trade off when you bring something into your life. With children there are many sacrifices but you should also feel you are getting something positive back. If it helps many of my friends are child free and also have the same issues regarding intimacy with their partner that parents can have, a combination of age, a long relationship and pressures of life in general. Not every childfree person is in a position to be spontaneous or has the funds to live that kind of life either, be wary of look at an alternative life through rose coloured lenses. You also have to invest in your relationship, so many couples don't. I've always believed my most important relationship is the one I have with my husband because he will still be there when the kids have moved on, we make time for it and each other and keep it our priority.

I always think of parenting as being akin to training for a marathon. The training is hard going, its torture at times and you ask yourself all the time why you are doing it but the feeling of achievement when you get your baby to adulthood is immense and you then enter a lovely new phase of life where you have this cool younger person to hang out with who just happens to be your child.

I really hope for your kids sake your feelings aren't obvious. I was the child of a parent who never wanted kids. It's horrible growing up feeling your parents resent you so I hope you are not inadvertently passing that onto your children.

partyguinness

TBH OP...that could have been written by every parent. I am a father to a 9 & 4 year old and I recoginse everything you have written.

Yes- I cannot drop everything and head off on a city break
Yes- Myself and wife are now parents rather than a couple
Yes- I hate the house is basically looks like a creche
No- It is not my job to provide 24/7 enterainment.
Yes- the car is a kip
Yes- I spent close to £70k on nursery feees over 8 years
Yes- I did get unfit and unhealthy when combined with heavy workload but I did sort that out with effort.
Yes- as the wife works on Saturday I have spent pretty much every Saturday for the last 9 years in a Groundhog day cycle of parenting. Grocery shopping is the higjlight of the day
Yes- I cannot drink for **** anymore. 4 pints and I'm hungover.
Yes- Every fcking week there is another payment demand from the school
Yes- I have gone from paying for one plane ticket to 4
Yes- the bickering between the kids gets very effing annoying
Yes- I hate doing homework
Yes- I have not had a decent sleep in 9 years

Would I change any of it? No.
Do I miss my old life? No, it's life. We move on.

I tend not to hold regrets as to the life choices I make as I alone made them. We have left the country every year as I will drive back to Ireland. We have been on a sun holiday to Spain or Portugal every year even with small toddlers. You end up doing the whole all inclusive package holiday.

I suppose the one thing I have accepted now is that it is no longer about me- it is about the kids.

Soon enough the house will be quiet and there will no longer be the sounds of little feet running around trashing the place. It will be just myself and wife sitting there in silence- it will be a steep reminder of our own mortality. I know that will be a very sad day but it will be a new chapter to get used to like our parents before us.

OP...I guess what I am saying is that life is very short and it will disappear very quickly. I fully respect your view and feelings on the matter but try to embrace and accept it. TBH you have no choice really- you don't want to look back in years to come when the kids have moved on and start to wish that you had enjoyed it or embraced more- you won't get a second chance.

bunny_mac

Mayo_fan wrote: »

@OP I wonder if this was really the right place for you to post this, all you are getting is posters patting themselves on their backs and high fiving each other that they made the “right” decision (or someone else did on their behalf).

I may be completely wrong about this (OP, feel free to correct me if so) but I read it that the OP posted this in the Childfree forum to say to us (the childfree) that, from the other side of the fence, he can tell us that we're doing the right thing. To maybe make a refreshing change from parents telling us that we'll regret it/we'll change our minds/we don't know the meaning of real love/we're abnormal. At no point in his original post did he ask for opinions or advice. Yet all these parents, surprise surprise, felt the need to stick their oar in anyway.

eviltwin

bunny_mac wrote: »

I may be completely wrong about this (OP, feel free to correct me if so) but I read it that the OP posted this in the Childfree forum to say to us (the childfree) that, from the other side of the fence, he can tell us that we're doing the right thing. To maybe make a refreshing change from parents telling us that we'll regret it/we'll change our minds/we don't know the meaning of real love/we're abnormal. At no point in his original post did he ask for opinions or advice. Yet all these parents, surprise surprise, felt the need to stick their oar in anyway.

The guy is clearly struggling with his feelings. I think its a bit distasteful to use someone's emotional distress to feel better about your own choices. He might not be asking for advice but he could probably do with some. His kids aren't going anywhere and they don't deserve to grow up feeling they messed up their dad's life. He is a parent now for better or worse, he can't undo that and he shouldn't be resigned to spending the rest of his life feeling regret.

ellee

Well it is hard to read the pain of someone in so much regret. Having children is a huge change of life experience and it can be v hard to adjust. There is no magic clicking to it. It's about finding ways to enjoy your children and your life together, and knowing your own boundaries and ensuring you respect them and develop ways in your family to protect them too so you can remain somewhat sane.

From my grand sample of 2, I can heartily agree that toddlers are hell.

Probably might help to remember that life changes no matter what. Even if you do not have children, your life does not remain as it was when you were in your 20s. People are less available, they're older and tireder, they develop new interests, their careers, they move on, lose touch, get sick, get better, go through grief, infertility, develop caring responsibilities for parents, they fall out of love or back in love, fall down conspiracy rabbit holes etc etc!

I hope OP you find ways to find more joy with your kids. Be assured it's not magic, these are small people you've brought into your life and they are as demanding and awkward as people anywhere plus you have to figure out how to teach them to tie their shoelaces and a million other things. It's a huge job, and it's perfectly normal to be overwhelmed.

bunny_mac

eviltwin wrote: »

The guy is clearly struggling with his feelings. I think its a bit distasteful to use someone's emotional distress to feel better about your own choices. He might not be asking for advice but he could probably do with some. His kids aren't going anywhere and they don't deserve to grow up feeling they messed up their dad's life. He is a parent now for better or worse, he can't undo that and he shouldn't be resigned to spending the rest of his life feeling regret.

I'm not using his emotional distress to feel better about my choices. I don't need to, I'm perfectly happy with my choices thanks. And I'm sure if he'd wanted advice he would have asked for it.

bunny_mac

beauf wrote: »

Actually people from all experiences "stuck their oar in"

Kinda hard to avoid that if you open a thread on a "discussion forum". Thats not a criticism of the OP its just how the forum works from a technical point of view.

Even if it was a closed forum I'm not sure how you could filter membership to only people of the same experience, and who will only agree with you. Some forums every post has to be approved by a mod. Not seen that on boards yet.
If you want to post and have no replies that would be a one post thread.

This is a childfree board. It would be expected that childfree people would 'stick their oar in' on a childfree board. Why are parents even reading posts on a childfree board? I don't read or comment on posts on parenting forums because I'm not a parent. I don't comment on posts on car forums because I have no interest in cars. I know I can't control who posts here, but I don't understand why, when almost the entirety of the internet (and the world) caters for parents at every turn that parents can't just let the non-parents have one little space for themselves. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a 'safe' space where I can connect with people who have made the same, marginalised, choice as me without the non-marginalised feeling like they have a right to be here too.

eviltwin

bunny_mac wrote: »

This is a childfree board. It would be expected that childfree people would 'stick their oar in' on a childfree board. Why are parents even reading posts on a childfree board? I don't read or comment on posts on parenting forums because I'm not a parent. I don't comment on posts on car forums because I have no interest in cars. I know I can't control who posts here, but I don't understand why, when almost the entirety of the internet (and the world) caters for parents at every turn that parents can't just let the non-parents have one little space for themselves. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a 'safe' space where I can connect with people who have made the same, marginalised, choice as me without the non-marginalised feeling like they have a right to be here too.

Because he is a parent and a lot of parents might have direct experience of what he is going through. He might not have asked for advice but its a very sad and lonely post to read and if someone can give him some feedback that might help him feel a bit better about his situation isn't that a good thing

bunny_mac

eviltwin wrote: »

Because he is a parent and a lot of parents might have direct experience of what he is going through. He might not have asked for advice but its a very sad and lonely post to read and if someone can give him some feedback that might help him feel a bit better about his situation isn't that a good thing

Not in my opinion, no. I think as humans we are too quick to jump in and tell people how to fix things instead of just letting them vent. Plus most of the comments were along the lines of 'but children are great! things will get better!', which isn't helpful imho, because you don't know that they will. All you can offer is your experience which might not be his. Which will then only make him feel worse if it doesn't turn out to be the case. So I would never offer advice unless someone specifically asks for it.

mfceiling

bunny_mac wrote: »

Yet all these parents, surprise surprise, felt the need to stick their oar in anyway.

Christ. What did you expect? Every childless person on boards to post here telling him he's made a huge mistake? Or parents with kids to give him some advice. Parents telling him they went through the same and came out the other side. Parents telling him they struggle also and are happy that it's not just them.

If that's "sticking their oar in" then I suggest you go back to your echo chamber in case someone has a different opinion than yours.

eviltwin

bunny_mac wrote: »

Not in my opinion, no. I think as humans we are too quick to jump in and tell people how to fix things instead of just letting them vent. Plus most of the comments were along the lines of 'but children are great! things will get better!', which isn't helpful imho, because you don't know that they will. All you can offer is your experience which might not be his. Which will then only make him feel worse if it doesn't turn out to be the case. So I would never offer advice unless someone specifically asks for it.

I wouldn't presume to tell the man how he will feel in the future but there is nothing wrong with giving someone a bit of hope that maybe how he feels now isn't how he will always feel. Judging from his reply to a poster earlier in the thread some of the positive words have given him something to work with so who knows, maybe he can find some light in the darkness and move forward. Sometimes the best insight you get is in a discussion where you don't look for advice or support, you just put your words down and let people respond to them from their perspective.

Normally I don't give unsolicited advice but its not just about this man. He has two kids who are innocent and blameless but who may in time suffer as a result of his unresolved feelings and I say that very much from the experience of having a parent who didn't want me. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I would have loved someone to reach out to my parent had they had the chance to do so when I was younger, it might just have helped.

Maybe in time nothing will change and he will always have regrets but that is his stuff to deal with. His kids shouldn't have to bear the burden of it and they will know as they grow and become more emotionally aware.

bunny_mac

mfceiling wrote: »

Christ. What did you expect? Every childless person on boards to post here telling him he's made a huge mistake? Or parents with kids to give him some advice. Parents telling him they went through the same and came out the other side. Parents telling him they struggle also and are happy that it's not just them.

On a childfree board? Childfree people. Not parents.

mfceiling wrote: »

If that's "sticking their oar in" then I suggest you go back to your echo chamber in case someone has a different opinion than yours.

Well that's the problem, I don't have an 'echo chamber' because apparently parents feel like they belong in it as well as everywhere else. I'm sick to death of hearing parents' opinions every day in real life... everywhere... on the TV, in newspapers, in real life. Why is it wrong for me to want ONE place where I can just 'talk' to people who are the same as me. ONE PLACE! Do you have a problem with Dr Who fans having their own boards? Or LGBT people? Anyone else who has a niche interest or lifestyle?

beauf

bunny_mac wrote: »

On a childfree board? Childfree people. Not parents.

Well that's the problem, I don't have an 'echo chamber' because apparently parents feel like they belong in it as well as everywhere else. I'm sick to death of hearing parents' opinions every day in real life... everywhere... on the TV, in newspapers, in real life. Why is it wrong for me to want ONE place where I can just 'talk' to people who are the same as me. ONE PLACE! Do you have a problem with Dr Who fans having their own boards? Or LGBT people? Anyone else who has a niche interest or lifestyle?

So you don't want the OP to post here either.

OP, I have an aunt, just a few years older then me, she has always confided in me, we are close. She had a child in her early 20s, she was married and that was what you did when you got married. She hated being pregnant, she very much disliked being a mother, she found it very difficult and stopped at one child. I think I probably did a lot of parenting her child when he was young.
She's the first to admit she did not like being a mother, she never felt maternal, now she wasn't ever mean to her son and she obviously always loved him, but thing is, she loves being a grandmother!
She was a young granny and hated the thoughts of it but once her own got older she found it got easier and she adores her two grandchildren.
So, there's something to look forward to

shesty

Mod note:
Right, as we are starting to go in circles, I am going to lock this as per the OP's request.
S