Should have stayed child-free

OnceKindMan

Throwaway account for reasons.

"Having a kid was the second most stupid thing I did. The most stupid thing I did was have another."

I need to preface this with "I love my kids, and I'd do anything for them". And I mean that. The older child is really coming into his own - he's an interesting person to talk to. The younger child is a toddler, with everything that implies. They're both good kids; kind to others (including each other), and generally well behaved.

But I still regret becoming a father. And if I had a do-over, kids just wouldn't be part of it.

Please don't interpret this as wishing them away, it's not like that at all. However, every single aspect of my life was better before I had children. Every. Single. Aspect.

My wife and I had an excellent relationship. It's still "good", but not as good as it was. And I don't think it ever will be again. I hate to say it, but the "spark" is gone.

We always had time for each other, and very rarely argued. Now we're lucky to get an hour together, and it takes so much effort to "arrange" that hour, and usually we're just to tired to do anything but veg out anyway. Our sex life is, well, crap. Used to be every other night. Now it's down to three, maybe four times per month. If the kids are in bed. And there's no risk to wake them up. And we're not interrupted.

We used to take at least one foreign holiday per year (pre-covid, obviously). We had plans to see every capital city in Europe. Now, we haven't left the country in over 7 years.

We used to go to the cinema pretty much weekly. That's gone.

We used to be far healthier. We used to get out hiking a lot, something we both really enjoyed. Now doing things like that is incredibly hard, with the amount of paraphernalia that bringing kids with you entails. And 20 minutes in the "I'm tired" starts. We ate far better - now a lot of it is convenience food. (Weird thing here is all the kids' food is healthy...)

Feel like the odd duvet day together, just watching TV? Now it's just completely impractical. There is no downtime, and no scope for downtime.

See that shiny new toy? Needs to be carefully considered before dropping money on that.

I need to be clear here, I'm not shrugging off my responsibilities - I am a dedicated father. But I pine for the days when my wife and I were living for "us", and not for the sake of our two children. And I often wonder what it is in me, that parenting just never really... "clicked".

So I guess, to summarise.... some people are just better off staying as aunts/uncles. And that's what I should have done.

Eric Cartman

the worst part is too , in the old days people would say its only an 18 year sentence , but these days the reality of it is you won't have time to yourselves and the house empty again till the youngest is 23-25, you are absolutely not alone in feeling like this, its just still a taboo for most to admit it.

secman

You havent mentioned your wife's wishes regarding children, maybe you should have stayed single as you genuinely seemed happier being a lad with no responsibilities and just travelling and having a regular sex life. Marriage and having children isn't for everyone. It continues to have to be tweaked and worked at, it needs total buy in and commitment from both partners.

wench

This is why my response to the perennial "What if you regret not having them?" is that if I have them and regret it, the returns policy is terrible!

CelticRambler

Whatever about the sex, the cinema and the duvet days, I don't understand this how you've ended up with this, especially with only two children:

OnceKindMan wrote: »

We used to take at least one foreign holiday per year (pre-covid, obviously). We had plans to see every capital city in Europe. Now, we haven't left the country in over 7 years.

We used to be far healthier. We used to get out hiking a lot, something we both really enjoyed. Now doing things like that is incredibly hard, with the amount of paraphernalia that bringing kids with you entails. And 20 minutes in the "I'm tired" starts. We ate far better - now a lot of it is convenience food. (Weird thing here is all the kids' food is healthy...)

Taking children on holidays is dead easy. Most of the "paraphenalia" is not necessary, and if they're properly trained, children can cope with pretty much anything an adult can. Having four in five years didn't stop MrsCR and me continuing hiking or visiting some of Europe's finest destinations. Spend a few days in the Alps and you'll see loads of children racing ahead of their parents, same as they do in Marlay or Bushy Park.

Tony EH

To the OP...

Most regrets don't last forever. Sparks come and go.

Life is very often looking about around you and seeing what you've got right now, not what you don't have right now.

In short, your life changes.

Faith

OP, thank you for sharing that. It can’t have been easy to type it out, and please do your best to ignore all the responses telling you why you’re wrong about your feelings and experiences.

lainey_d_123

wench wrote: »

This is why my response to the perennial "What if you regret not having them?" is that if I have them and regret it, the returns policy is terrible!

This is absolutely my concern. If I don't have them and then regret it, what happens? I feel lonely and sad, maybe. If I have them and regret it, what happens? My life is ruined, and probably the lives of innocent children, because resentfulness and bitterness ALWAYS comes out, even when people try to hide it.

Having kids is one of the very few things in life that's well and truly irreversible. You can recover from most bad decisions, even 'bigger' things like marrying the wrong person or buying the wrong house. You can get divorced, you can sell a house, you can even go bankrupt if you have to. There's always a way out. You can't really put your kids up for adoption because your life was way better without them. It's one of the few things that's completely and utterly unacceptable, even in today's relatively liberal society.

OnceKindMan

secman wrote: »

You havent mentioned your wife's wishes regarding children, maybe you should have stayed single as you genuinely seemed happier being a lad with no responsibilities and just travelling and having a regular sex life.

Those are fair points, but I think you've made a couple of assumptions there.

I deliberately didn't mention my wife, this is all me. She started off with no real urge to have kids, I was fine with that. As she got older (and we started having more nieces/nephews), she wanted them more. And I did too. Or at least I thought I did.

I was never "a lad with no responsibilities"; I was never really "a lad" at all. (Just for emphasis - I've never taken drugs, always drink within my limit, and never been in any kind of legal trouble.) It's not all about having a regular sex life, that's just one example of things that have gotten worse.

The "travelling" thing - there's a whole world out there to explore. And, let's face it, people with children won't see as much of it as people without. Or at least, it's a lot more challenging for them to do it.

secman wrote: »

Marriage and having children isn't for everyone. It continues to have to be tweaked and worked at, it needs total buy in and commitment from both partners.

Marriage absolutely is for me; my wife and I have been together since secondary school, she's my best friend, and would be completely lost without her.

I thought having children was for me too - we didn't go in blind here. But at the same time, I didn't think it would affect me as much as it has. I'm not a fool, I was expecting huge changes, changes I thought I could manage. But like I've said, the whole parenting thing just didn't "click" with me.

CelticRambler wrote: »

Taking children on holidays is dead easy. Most of the "paraphenalia" is not necessary, and if they're properly trained, children can cope with pretty much anything an adult can. Having four in five years didn't stop MrsCR and me continuing hiking or visiting some of Europe's finest destinations. Spend a few days in the Alps and you'll see loads of children racing ahead of their parents, same as they do in Marlay or Bushy Park.

And more power to you. I am now the sole earner (childcare is so expensive, it's actually cheaper for my wife to not work), so part of the not getting out of the country is a financial thing. Even staying in the country, it's no longer a case of "throw a few clothes into some suitcases" and head on our way. I've taken holidays inside the country too, but even then we can't go too far because the longer you're in the car, the more hassle it is. Driving across the country is a chore on its own, driving with children compounds that.

Holidays are supposed to be a chance to decompress, to get away from the daily struggles. Hard to do that when you bring your daily struggles with you. (Okay it's not that bad, but you get what I mean.)

"loads of children racing ahead of their parents"
And that, in itself, is stressful. "Are they going too far ahead, are they out of view, are they going to trip/fall?". What was once relaxing hike, enjoying nature, becomes a source of stress, where you spend 90% of your time keeping an eye on the children instead of enjoying the experience and enjoying each other's company.

Faith wrote: »

OP, thank you for sharing that. It can’t have been easy to type it out, and please do your best to ignore all the responses telling you why you’re wrong about your feelings and experiences.

Well it wasn't easy. And (as Eric Cartman mentioned above) there's a huge taboo about this kind of stuff. Hence the throwaway account; people will try to shame you for thinking and saying things like this.

Cal Croydon wrote: »

You might think things would be better if you'd stayed child free, but the relationship with your wife would not have remained the same had you remained child free and she wanted children. Likely she would have become bitter and this would manifest itself in numerous ways. Of course i could be wrong on that but it's a fair bet.

As I mentioned above, we didn't start out wanting children. But as we got older, it grew. There are a few reasons for that, but I think the main reason was that we enjoyed our nieces/nephews so much. My wife definitely wanted them more than I did, so another part was making sure her life was complete.

She's far happier (and better) as a parent than I am. She dotes on the children, and I'm grateful for that. But it still wears on her. I do what I can, outside of work. I'm working from home now, usually finish about 5, and I'll take over from her just so she can have some time to herself, even if all she does is have a cup of tea and watch some TV. I'll go for a walk with them, play some games, whatever. But all the while, at the end of a hard day, all I want to do is sit down with her and have a chat. We so rarely get to do that.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

This is absolutely my concern. If I don't have them and then regret it, what happens? I feel lonely and sad, maybe. If I have them and regret it, what happens? My life is ruined, and probably the lives of innocent children, because resentfulness and bitterness ALWAYS comes out, even when people try to hide it.

That plays on my mind a lot.

The older child is intelligent, and interesting. He's very kind and considerate. I love him, but more importantly, I like him. I enjoy spending time with him. The younger child is starting to come in to his own a lot more now too. The younger child is a lot more brazen, but still a good kid (the majority of the time). And learning a lot from the older child (kindness, compassion, etc).

So I like to think that I can get over myself, and I know I don't begrudge the children at all; this is all on me. That may sound contradictory to everything else I've said. But it's as simple as: if I had the choice again, I wouldn't have children. It's more about missing the life we had before.

Tony EH wrote: »

To the OP...

Most regrets don't last forever. Sparks come and go.

Life is very often looking about around you and seeing what you've got right now, not what you don't have right now.

In short, your life changes.

That's a great take, thank you for that. Of all the responses, I think this was the most useful. This is something I can build on.

CelticRambler

OnceKindMan wrote: »

So I like to think that I can get over myself, and I know I don't begrudge the children at all; this is all on me. That may sound contradictory to everything else I've said. But it's as simple as: if I had the choice again, I wouldn't have children. It's more about missing the life we had before.

If you're thinking about your life as a couple, then yeah, that's lost and gone forever. But chances are there were quite a few other people in your life too, whose feelings and/or demands you had to take into account, even if you were able to fob them off in a way that you can't do with your own children.

But ...

OnceKindMan wrote: »

"loads of children racing ahead of their parents"
And that, in itself, is stressful. "Are they going too far ahead, are they out of view, are they going to trip/fall?". What was once relaxing hike, enjoying nature, becomes a source of stress, where you spend 90% of your time keeping an eye on the children instead of enjoying the experience and enjoying each other's company.

... as far as getting out and about is concerned (especially hiking and the actual travelling) it'd help if you didn't treat the children so much as fragile, vulnerable little beings, but "just another person on the trip". We lost SonNo.2 in Dundrum Shopping Centre (twice, in the one day - the second PA announcement was seriously embarrassing ) but never had any trouble out in the big wide world, probably because we explained to the children the limits of what we could do for them if they had any problems - if you fall over and cut your knees, we have no bandages; if you eat your three bars of chocolate in one go, you'll have nothing left for our third break; if you run too far ahead and take a wrong turn, you'll have to catch up with us.

Once those warnings were given, we'd talk to the children about what we were doing and what we were seeing in exactly the same way as we'd talk to each other - there's no reason why they shouldn't be just as interested in the way the sun glints off a glacier as you; and in return, their child-sized perspective will help you see and appreciate things that you wouldn't notice while staring lovingly into your wife's eyes!

bunny_mac

Thank you for sharing, OP. That must have been hard to write. But very brave of you to do it.

Of course, it doesn't surprise me that, even though you posted this on a childfree board, you were assailed with self-righteous replies from parents. And people wonder why so few people admit regretting having kids?!

Your experience is your experience and you're perfectly entitled to feel how you feel. Please ignore the gob****es who seem to be trolling this board (it's the same few users all the time) just to tell everyone they're wrong.

Eire Go Brach

Think we all feel like this from time to time. It’s quite normal. Day dream of our past and what we could be doing. But your also missing options and choice. Kids take that away from you. We all love to be free 😀Even if you had no kids. You might not feel like doing all those things.

Like I love a good night out. But they are always better in my head. Day comes along. Sometimes I’m like “ah wish I could stay in” 😀

Just throwing it out their. But maybe try meditation/ Mindfulness. Helps with living in the now.

shesty

Mod Note:

A mild warning to both sides here - given the nature of this thread and this forum, there are bound to be strong opinions. Both sides are equally entitled to their opinions in this particular space, however the main focus of this particular forum is for those who are childfree.

I would ask that you all think carefully of your language and opinions when you are posting, regardless of which side you fall on. Please respect that other people's life choices may not be yours, and be tolerant.

If you have any issues, please report posts.
Thanks,
S

This hard part is temporary
When the toddlers a bit older it will get easier
It won’t be long before they are teenagers and you’ll barely see them.
You’ll be able to do a lot more things with and without your children
All the things you’ve mentioned you’ll be able to start doing them again
Good luck

ShauntaMetzel

I think the 'spark' of every marital relationship changes or goes down after a certain period of time. By the way, I agree that as a parent we compromise several things for our kids that even we don't bother to do for our parents. With this point, why we still don't consider the efforts of our own parents for us?

YellowLead

bunny_mac wrote: »

Thank you for sharing, OP. That must have been hard to write. But very brave of you to do it.

Of course, it doesn't surprise me that, even though you posted this on a childfree board, you were assailed with self-righteous replies from parents. And people wonder why so few people admit regretting having kids?!

Your experience is your experience and you're perfectly entitled to feel how you feel. Please ignore the gob****es who seem to be trolling this board (it's the same few users all the time) just to tell everyone they're wrong.

I reckon this forum should be membership only, like online dating and sexuality forums and whatever else. Otherwise you are inviting the opinions of every Tom dick and Harry and have to be open/accepting of that.

bunny_mac

YellowLead wrote: »

I reckon this should be membership only, like online dating and sexuality forums and whatever else. Otherwise you are inviting the opinions of every Tom dick and Harry and have to be open/accepting of that.

I wish it was. I mean there's a thread about how we're always being told we'll change our minds, and two parents posted on there... telling us most of us will change our minds! Is it too much to ask that we have a tiny corner of a tiny corner of the internet where we can be free from that?

magicbastarder

to be fair - the people possibly most likely to be able to empathise, or give useful feedback - are people who *have* had kids (deliberately or accidentally). possibly in similar circumstances, or have been through it and have learned useful lessons they might be able to pass on.

those of us who *haven't* had kids are not necessarily in a useful position to offer advice.

limnam

If I was to guess I would imagine that parents mourning their childless old selves/life is fairly common.


A lot of people probably don't admit it for the same reason you posted this under a different account.

YellowLead

beauf wrote: »

This is probably worth its own thread. So it doesn't derail the OPs thread.

If you think neither have useful opinions to share with the other. Then lock down the forum. But consider then the op wouldn't have been able to post here.

They would be able to, all they would have to do was ask to join.

I just feel it’s silly to be complaining about all manner of opinions if you leave the forum open for everyone to use. If you (not you personally) want it only for people who are child free by choice, or who regret having kids, then it needs to be locked down - simple

Without the forum being open, most childfree posters would never have found it

Leave it open, we can deal with annoyances as they occur rather than hiding away

sparksfly

I don't know what age you are but with a toddler i'l guess in your 30s.
I am 60, my wife 56 and we have one daughter.

I remember clearly picking her up from playschool, her not leaving until the story being read was finished. I remember her first day on the school bus, my wife driving behind it to see would she get into the school safely. Her little head bobbing around in the back seat of the bus made my wife distraught at the fact her baby was on her own for the first time.
The open day at secondary as she excitedly explored the new huge school seems like yesterday. We brought her to find her accommodation as she started university, she was both exited and apprehensive.

Now she heads off in her car to the same school as a teacher, smartly dressed and confident, next she is leaving home to live with her partner.

I heard children playing and laughing at a neighbours house yesterday and I suddenly had to catch my breath. This was our house for years, we always welcomed her friends around and it was noisy, my wife cooking chips and making buns.

I'm not saying you don't but cherish those moments with your kids with all your might. Before you know it they will be gone. You and your wife will re-live those moments with your memories.
Make as many memories as you can and make them strong.

R.D. aka MR.D

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Without the forum being open, most childfree posters would never have found it

Leave it open, we can deal with annoyances as they occur rather than hiding away

Agree with this. Even if it shows a few people who are on the fence that this life is okay, it is worth dealing with the nonsense.

There have only been a few comments which i thought were designed to be hurtful, most are just ignorance so I am happy enough to deal with the just as I do in real life which is ignore or attempt to inform.

This thread in particular is bound to attract people telling the OP that actually children are great, not out of malice but in an attempt to comfort.

shtpEdthePlum

Most people will always feel the grass is greener. I've found that things get progressively worse over time, even if there are incremental improvements it generally feels to me like one step forward two steps back.

Maybe that's just me, but I cope with it by trying to live in the moment as much as possible. Mindfulness kind of stuff, just looking around and thinking about what's grand at the moment. Focusing on what's lost is healthy but can't work as the only mechanism for coping with your situation.

Thank you for sharing your circumstances as it will no doubt help many others to feel less alone. I hope you make peace with your situation and you're far from the only one.

ChrissieH

Thank you for sharing and being so honest, I am childfree by choice and very happily married so I empathise with your feelings of loss about the relationship with your wife. I cherish my marriage and I feel like lockdown was easy and nice for us compared to the pressure so many parents were under, so hopefully that's part of the contributing factor to your current malaise and things might get better for you when life in general improves.
I recently had a conversation with a male friend who had been childfree until his 40s when he met his partner who was adamant that she wanted kids. He found it stressful when they were babies but seems ok now, however their romantic relationship is very "limited" shall we say.. they get on great etc but zero intimacy.

Our conversation was interesting because he freely admitted that he felt he would have been equally happy childfree as he is with children, in terms of "you can't miss what you never had" or "ignorance is bliss" which is, of course, antithesis to lots of peoples arguments that you'll regret it if you don't have kids. I don't think I've ever heard a parent say that before so it really stuck in my mind! I appreciated the honesty - I think we all know that parents love their kids but that doesn't mean that they're entirely happy with the impact on their lives.
I've never wanted them and I don't regret not having them, so I feel for you because I know I would feel exactly like you do if I was a parent, and it's tough!

Faith

beauf wrote: »

There is no way to reply to this on this forum other than agree with you.
That maybe the "correct" answer for the forum but I'm not sure thats useful for you.

You can just empathise. I doubt the OP is thinking someone will provide a magic solution because there is none; it's okay to allow someone to get something off their chest without responses needing to be solution-focused and "agree" or "disagree"

OnceKindMan

CelticRambler wrote: »

... as far as getting out and about is concerned (especially hiking and the actual travelling) it'd help if you didn't treat the children so much as fragile, vulnerable little beings, but "just another person on the trip". We lost SonNo.2 in Dundrum Shopping Centre (twice, in the one day - the second PA announcement was seriously embarrassing ) but never had any trouble out in the big wide world, probably because we explained to the children the limits of what we could do for them if they had any problems - if you fall over and cut your knees, we have no bandages; if you eat your three bars of chocolate in one go, you'll have nothing left for our third break; if you run too far ahead and take a wrong turn, you'll have to catch up with us.

That story about Dundrum - you've just proven my point for me. A casual shopping trip turned into a stressful situation.

But good tips (generally something we try to do anyway). Will definitely take them on board!

beauf wrote: »

There is no way to reply to this on this forum other than agree with you.
That maybe the "correct" answer for the forum but I'm not sure thats useful for you.

Faith wrote: »

You can just empathise. I doubt the OP is thinking someone will provide a magic solution because there is none; it's okay to allow someone to get something off their chest without responses needing to be solution-focused and "agree" or "disagree"

Exactly. I'm not expecting a solution. I'm not looking for "forgiveness". And I don't want condemnation either.

It's just good to get my thoughts/feelings out. It's not a "confession"; I'm just telling my story exactly as it is, warts and all.

(Just for clarity, 90% of the responses have been positive; indeed some have actually been quite helpful, which is not something I had expected when I posted!)

Anyway, I believe this thread has served its purpose, so if a mod wants to lock it, that's fine.

How Soon Is Now

I've two young kids boy 7 and girl 4 ya they drive me mental and Id love a break more often than not. My daughter especially can be a lot of work she's still not toilet trained ( we have tried and tried and tried ha) she wont talk to you properly the vast majority of the time and everything she does talk about usually revolves mostly around what she wants or what's on tv. Where in the process of finding out if she has anything Autism etc so that's not gonna make life any easier.

They have the place wrecked half the time and herself is a hell of a lot more stressed out because of everything going on. I do have to just get out and do my own thing every now and again even if its just out for a cycle.

Thing is we had them cause we wanted kids and like the OP I love them more than anything and I work really hard at being the best father I can be. I have a good relationship with them but there's a lot of things I loved before they where born I know I aint getting back again including how my relationship with my partner was before hand.

I find the best thing I can do Is to try and find some kinda time to do something away from there stuff even if its just an hour or two or get them involved in things I like and enjoy. At least that way its not just there ****e over and over.

I can one hundred percent understand why people choose to not have kids or some what regret it if they do its a natural thing. I guess one way or another all you can do is your best.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

This hard part is temporary
When the toddlers a bit older it will get easier
It won’t be long before they are teenagers and you’ll barely see them.
You’ll be able to do a lot more things with and without your children
All the things you’ve mentioned you’ll be able to start doing them again
Good luck

I’ve heard this quite a bit and I’m not sure if it’s accurate

Toddlers are physically demanding but teenagers are a difficulty on a different scale mentally and financially

By the time those teenagers pass into early 20s they will likely have been through college at an enormous cost and still living at home

We spend the healthiest most energetic years of or lives devoting it to raising children, by the time they are gone it’s often to late financially and physically to do the things we postponed to raise kids

Make no mistake, parenting is a vocation with little reward for many people

Our lives are not a rehearsal, we don’t get the time back dedicated to raising babies into adults

@OP

@OP I wonder if this was really the right place for you to post this, all you are getting is posters patting themselves on their backs and high fiving each other that they made the “right” decision (or someone else did on their behalf).

What can these posts possibly do for your situation? The few helpful advice posts are being drowned out.

I feel the personal sub forum would be best, as you will get genuine advice there from people who have gotten through your tough stage and are enjoying the far side of it or useful tips on how to enjoy / get through your current stage that will hopefully give you a positive outlook. It will help you see see the positives rather than regret which is all I see here.

I fear for the outlook of both you and your family if you take on board the majority of the posts on here. It’s like visiting the vegan forum and saying you have meat in the fridge.

jimmycrackcorm

OnceKindMan wrote:

So I like to think that I can get over myself, and I know I don't begrudge the children at all; this is all on me. That may sound contradictory to everything else I've said. But it's as simple as: if I had the choice again, I wouldn't have children. It's more about missing the life we had before.

In the longer term though, your kids will grow up and be independent.
I'm at that stage and it's a while new life for me since, apart from the pandemic, I've been able to travel and have new experiences that are separate from family life.

So I'm saying, that which you miss, isn't gone forever.

secman

Thanks for your response OP, i hope i didn't come across badly or condescending to you, absolutely not my intention. As one of the responses mentioned during our life there are periods that we don't enjoy, we had a very difficult time with one of our 2 children, thankfully that "child" has turned their life around and we now have a 3rd grandchild , you will learn in time OP that grandchildren are a blessing, totally different to children, you can give them back
Anyways glad to hear that you have found it helpful and insightful that you put your thoughts on paper.
Best of luck.

mfceiling

Fair play to admitting that.

I'll be honest and say I've often thought it too. 3 girls (youngest nearly 12, eldest nearly 16 and the middle nearly 14).
The early years were hell. No respite at all. Middle of a recession, screaming babies, and lack of sleep didn't have us in a good place.
The years have went by and gradually they don't rely on you as much (financially more though!!).

The "spark" has come back somewhat because we make time for each other. We walk together, talk together, watch the same TV shows together. It has been difficult but here we are.

My wife commented on a walk last week "we should get the girls to come with us next week". I replied "not going to happen...no teenager wants to go on a walk with their parents".

Time flies past and gradually your old life sort of returns. 2019 we took our first foreign break on our own in 15 years (Lisbon) for a few days on our own. We had a brilliant weekend even though we occasionally dropped in a "the girls would love this".

I hope it works out for you in the future OP.

Kaybaykwah

What strikes me is the thought of not being able to visit Europe's capitals in the short to mid-term. I mean, you don't have to go back that far to a time when people only gravitated a coupla kms from their homestead, council house, rowhome, etc...

We have gotten used to more freedom as implied by those who sell us this idea of freedom but, it's all about the abundance of choices, and the steps we take in life.

I think what bothered me when my kids were growing up was the two boys fighting, not getting along. It time this alll changed to a more positive relationship. They are now buddies, but when one does something the other doesn't like, they can still go at it, in their twenties. They are both living the good life with us, have their cars and good jobs, but need to be reminded of their duties around the house. My younger son is 22, and a mechanic, he has a hobby car he fiddles with, and travels many miles with his regular car to fetch parts. He has time to do tuning and repairs but very little to set the garage straight. I have been asking him to clean up, but the inkling of an enlightenment are only beginning to appear.

In short, it is best o make the best of it, the warmth of a little family life. If ypour circumstances are not worse than what you have stated, OP; it really bears reminding ourselves that the universe and its workings only make sense when we put a meaning to it all.

eviltwin

You're kids are very young and at a very demanding age OP so hopefully it won't always be this way for you. I'm coming out the other side - one almost a teen and the other in her mid 20's - and life has settled down to a point where things are really great. It does help hugely when you're kids become independent and you don't need to be so hands on.

There is always a trade off when you bring something into your life. With children there are many sacrifices but you should also feel you are getting something positive back. If it helps many of my friends are child free and also have the same issues regarding intimacy with their partner that parents can have, a combination of age, a long relationship and pressures of life in general. Not every childfree person is in a position to be spontaneous or has the funds to live that kind of life either, be wary of look at an alternative life through rose coloured lenses. You also have to invest in your relationship, so many couples don't. I've always believed my most important relationship is the one I have with my husband because he will still be there when the kids have moved on, we make time for it and each other and keep it our priority.

I always think of parenting as being akin to training for a marathon. The training is hard going, its torture at times and you ask yourself all the time why you are doing it but the feeling of achievement when you get your baby to adulthood is immense and you then enter a lovely new phase of life where you have this cool younger person to hang out with who just happens to be your child.

I really hope for your kids sake your feelings aren't obvious. I was the child of a parent who never wanted kids. It's horrible growing up feeling your parents resent you so I hope you are not inadvertently passing that onto your children.

partyguinness

TBH OP...that could have been written by every parent. I am a father to a 9 & 4 year old and I recoginse everything you have written.

Yes- I cannot drop everything and head off on a city break
Yes- Myself and wife are now parents rather than a couple
Yes- I hate the house is basically looks like a creche
No- It is not my job to provide 24/7 enterainment.
Yes- the car is a kip
Yes- I spent close to £70k on nursery feees over 8 years
Yes- I did get unfit and unhealthy when combined with heavy workload but I did sort that out with effort.
Yes- as the wife works on Saturday I have spent pretty much every Saturday for the last 9 years in a Groundhog day cycle of parenting. Grocery shopping is the higjlight of the day
Yes- I cannot drink for **** anymore. 4 pints and I'm hungover.
Yes- Every fcking week there is another payment demand from the school
Yes- I have gone from paying for one plane ticket to 4
Yes- the bickering between the kids gets very effing annoying
Yes- I hate doing homework
Yes- I have not had a decent sleep in 9 years

Would I change any of it? No.
Do I miss my old life? No, it's life. We move on.

I tend not to hold regrets as to the life choices I make as I alone made them. We have left the country every year as I will drive back to Ireland. We have been on a sun holiday to Spain or Portugal every year even with small toddlers. You end up doing the whole all inclusive package holiday.

I suppose the one thing I have accepted now is that it is no longer about me- it is about the kids.

Soon enough the house will be quiet and there will no longer be the sounds of little feet running around trashing the place. It will be just myself and wife sitting there in silence- it will be a steep reminder of our own mortality. I know that will be a very sad day but it will be a new chapter to get used to like our parents before us.

OP...I guess what I am saying is that life is very short and it will disappear very quickly. I fully respect your view and feelings on the matter but try to embrace and accept it. TBH you have no choice really- you don't want to look back in years to come when the kids have moved on and start to wish that you had enjoyed it or embraced more- you won't get a second chance.

bunny_mac

Mayo_fan wrote: »

@OP I wonder if this was really the right place for you to post this, all you are getting is posters patting themselves on their backs and high fiving each other that they made the “right” decision (or someone else did on their behalf).

I may be completely wrong about this (OP, feel free to correct me if so) but I read it that the OP posted this in the Childfree forum to say to us (the childfree) that, from the other side of the fence, he can tell us that we're doing the right thing. To maybe make a refreshing change from parents telling us that we'll regret it/we'll change our minds/we don't know the meaning of real love/we're abnormal. At no point in his original post did he ask for opinions or advice. Yet all these parents, surprise surprise, felt the need to stick their oar in anyway.

eviltwin

bunny_mac wrote: »

I may be completely wrong about this (OP, feel free to correct me if so) but I read it that the OP posted this in the Childfree forum to say to us (the childfree) that, from the other side of the fence, he can tell us that we're doing the right thing. To maybe make a refreshing change from parents telling us that we'll regret it/we'll change our minds/we don't know the meaning of real love/we're abnormal. At no point in his original post did he ask for opinions or advice. Yet all these parents, surprise surprise, felt the need to stick their oar in anyway.

The guy is clearly struggling with his feelings. I think its a bit distasteful to use someone's emotional distress to feel better about your own choices. He might not be asking for advice but he could probably do with some. His kids aren't going anywhere and they don't deserve to grow up feeling they messed up their dad's life. He is a parent now for better or worse, he can't undo that and he shouldn't be resigned to spending the rest of his life feeling regret.

ellee

Well it is hard to read the pain of someone in so much regret. Having children is a huge change of life experience and it can be v hard to adjust. There is no magic clicking to it. It's about finding ways to enjoy your children and your life together, and knowing your own boundaries and ensuring you respect them and develop ways in your family to protect them too so you can remain somewhat sane.

From my grand sample of 2, I can heartily agree that toddlers are hell.

Probably might help to remember that life changes no matter what. Even if you do not have children, your life does not remain as it was when you were in your 20s. People are less available, they're older and tireder, they develop new interests, their careers, they move on, lose touch, get sick, get better, go through grief, infertility, develop caring responsibilities for parents, they fall out of love or back in love, fall down conspiracy rabbit holes etc etc!

I hope OP you find ways to find more joy with your kids. Be assured it's not magic, these are small people you've brought into your life and they are as demanding and awkward as people anywhere plus you have to figure out how to teach them to tie their shoelaces and a million other things. It's a huge job, and it's perfectly normal to be overwhelmed.

bunny_mac

eviltwin wrote: »

The guy is clearly struggling with his feelings. I think its a bit distasteful to use someone's emotional distress to feel better about your own choices. He might not be asking for advice but he could probably do with some. His kids aren't going anywhere and they don't deserve to grow up feeling they messed up their dad's life. He is a parent now for better or worse, he can't undo that and he shouldn't be resigned to spending the rest of his life feeling regret.

I'm not using his emotional distress to feel better about my choices. I don't need to, I'm perfectly happy with my choices thanks. And I'm sure if he'd wanted advice he would have asked for it.

bunny_mac

beauf wrote: »

Actually people from all experiences "stuck their oar in"

Kinda hard to avoid that if you open a thread on a "discussion forum". Thats not a criticism of the OP its just how the forum works from a technical point of view.

Even if it was a closed forum I'm not sure how you could filter membership to only people of the same experience, and who will only agree with you. Some forums every post has to be approved by a mod. Not seen that on boards yet.
If you want to post and have no replies that would be a one post thread.

This is a childfree board. It would be expected that childfree people would 'stick their oar in' on a childfree board. Why are parents even reading posts on a childfree board? I don't read or comment on posts on parenting forums because I'm not a parent. I don't comment on posts on car forums because I have no interest in cars. I know I can't control who posts here, but I don't understand why, when almost the entirety of the internet (and the world) caters for parents at every turn that parents can't just let the non-parents have one little space for themselves. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a 'safe' space where I can connect with people who have made the same, marginalised, choice as me without the non-marginalised feeling like they have a right to be here too.

eviltwin

bunny_mac wrote: »

This is a childfree board. It would be expected that childfree people would 'stick their oar in' on a childfree board. Why are parents even reading posts on a childfree board? I don't read or comment on posts on parenting forums because I'm not a parent. I don't comment on posts on car forums because I have no interest in cars. I know I can't control who posts here, but I don't understand why, when almost the entirety of the internet (and the world) caters for parents at every turn that parents can't just let the non-parents have one little space for themselves. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a 'safe' space where I can connect with people who have made the same, marginalised, choice as me without the non-marginalised feeling like they have a right to be here too.

Because he is a parent and a lot of parents might have direct experience of what he is going through. He might not have asked for advice but its a very sad and lonely post to read and if someone can give him some feedback that might help him feel a bit better about his situation isn't that a good thing

bunny_mac

eviltwin wrote: »

Because he is a parent and a lot of parents might have direct experience of what he is going through. He might not have asked for advice but its a very sad and lonely post to read and if someone can give him some feedback that might help him feel a bit better about his situation isn't that a good thing

Not in my opinion, no. I think as humans we are too quick to jump in and tell people how to fix things instead of just letting them vent. Plus most of the comments were along the lines of 'but children are great! things will get better!', which isn't helpful imho, because you don't know that they will. All you can offer is your experience which might not be his. Which will then only make him feel worse if it doesn't turn out to be the case. So I would never offer advice unless someone specifically asks for it.

mfceiling

bunny_mac wrote: »

Yet all these parents, surprise surprise, felt the need to stick their oar in anyway.

Christ. What did you expect? Every childless person on boards to post here telling him he's made a huge mistake? Or parents with kids to give him some advice. Parents telling him they went through the same and came out the other side. Parents telling him they struggle also and are happy that it's not just them.

If that's "sticking their oar in" then I suggest you go back to your echo chamber in case someone has a different opinion than yours.

eviltwin

bunny_mac wrote: »

Not in my opinion, no. I think as humans we are too quick to jump in and tell people how to fix things instead of just letting them vent. Plus most of the comments were along the lines of 'but children are great! things will get better!', which isn't helpful imho, because you don't know that they will. All you can offer is your experience which might not be his. Which will then only make him feel worse if it doesn't turn out to be the case. So I would never offer advice unless someone specifically asks for it.

I wouldn't presume to tell the man how he will feel in the future but there is nothing wrong with giving someone a bit of hope that maybe how he feels now isn't how he will always feel. Judging from his reply to a poster earlier in the thread some of the positive words have given him something to work with so who knows, maybe he can find some light in the darkness and move forward. Sometimes the best insight you get is in a discussion where you don't look for advice or support, you just put your words down and let people respond to them from their perspective.

Normally I don't give unsolicited advice but its not just about this man. He has two kids who are innocent and blameless but who may in time suffer as a result of his unresolved feelings and I say that very much from the experience of having a parent who didn't want me. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I would have loved someone to reach out to my parent had they had the chance to do so when I was younger, it might just have helped.

Maybe in time nothing will change and he will always have regrets but that is his stuff to deal with. His kids shouldn't have to bear the burden of it and they will know as they grow and become more emotionally aware.

bunny_mac

mfceiling wrote: »

Christ. What did you expect? Every childless person on boards to post here telling him he's made a huge mistake? Or parents with kids to give him some advice. Parents telling him they went through the same and came out the other side. Parents telling him they struggle also and are happy that it's not just them.

On a childfree board? Childfree people. Not parents.

mfceiling wrote: »

If that's "sticking their oar in" then I suggest you go back to your echo chamber in case someone has a different opinion than yours.

Well that's the problem, I don't have an 'echo chamber' because apparently parents feel like they belong in it as well as everywhere else. I'm sick to death of hearing parents' opinions every day in real life... everywhere... on the TV, in newspapers, in real life. Why is it wrong for me to want ONE place where I can just 'talk' to people who are the same as me. ONE PLACE! Do you have a problem with Dr Who fans having their own boards? Or LGBT people? Anyone else who has a niche interest or lifestyle?

beauf

bunny_mac wrote: »

On a childfree board? Childfree people. Not parents.

Well that's the problem, I don't have an 'echo chamber' because apparently parents feel like they belong in it as well as everywhere else. I'm sick to death of hearing parents' opinions every day in real life... everywhere... on the TV, in newspapers, in real life. Why is it wrong for me to want ONE place where I can just 'talk' to people who are the same as me. ONE PLACE! Do you have a problem with Dr Who fans having their own boards? Or LGBT people? Anyone else who has a niche interest or lifestyle?

So you don't want the OP to post here either.

OP, I have an aunt, just a few years older then me, she has always confided in me, we are close. She had a child in her early 20s, she was married and that was what you did when you got married. She hated being pregnant, she very much disliked being a mother, she found it very difficult and stopped at one child. I think I probably did a lot of parenting her child when he was young.
She's the first to admit she did not like being a mother, she never felt maternal, now she wasn't ever mean to her son and she obviously always loved him, but thing is, she loves being a grandmother!
She was a young granny and hated the thoughts of it but once her own got older she found it got easier and she adores her two grandchildren.
So, there's something to look forward to

shesty

Mod note:
Right, as we are starting to go in circles, I am going to lock this as per the OP's request.
S