How do you deal with this?

The chan chan man

Everything I do is defensive..

I get up early on a Saturday morning, wife has a lie in, i cook kids breakfast, clean the kitchen, clean garden after the dog, cut the grass and have dinner ready. Wife gets up late and says I didn’t clean the kitchen floors.. I then say “well jesus christ I did x, y and z while you had a lie in...” She gets angry and says I’m defensive.

Are you not supposed to defend yourself in that case?! How are you supposed to handle these situations?

Thanks

Edit - I should also add that she always wants to have her feelings validated, fair enough I guess. However even when those feelings are anger towards me, i’m not supposed to defend myself in the situation described above, and should instead acknowledge that she’s angry and validate her feelings and just apologise. To me, basically become a fcuking doormat and give her a free pass to say whatever she likes to me? Is this normal? How do you deal with it?!

alibab

Tell her tomorrow you are having a lie in and don’t get out of the bed till whatever time . When you get up and place is a mess etc point out what she didn’t do . Alternatively get up early and head off for a few hours peace on your own . It should be equal for both parties and not all one sided . As for the validation thing nip it in the bud . Yes you can defend yourself completely allowed ,

Smee_Again

I was hoping you would do that because I spent the morning doing xyz.

Dtp1979

From what you told us, I’d agree with you op. But, it’s Probably not as simple as you’re saying. Spread out over the week, what way do the chores pan out. ?

Tork

Have you tried to talk to her about this when neither of you are annoyed?

cap.in.hand.

The chan chan man wrote: »

Everything I do is defensive..

I get up early on a Saturday morning, wife has a lie in, i cook kids breakfast, clean the kitchen, clean garden after the dog, cut the grass and have dinner ready. Wife gets up late and says I didn’t clean the kitchen floors.. I then say “well jesus christ I did x, y and z while you had a lie in...” She gets angry and says I’m defensive.

Are you not supposed to defend yourself in that case?! How are you supposed to handle these situations?

Thanks

Edit - I should also add that she always wants to have her feelings validated, fair enough I guess. However even when those feelings are anger towards me, i’m not supposed to defend myself in the situation described above, and should instead acknowledge that she’s angry and validate her feelings and just apologise. To me, basically become a fcuking doormat and give her a free pass to say whatever she likes to me? Is this normal? How do you deal with it?!

Do you get up every sat morn doing this incl the floor...she'd be expecting same result all the time...

osarusan

If this came out of nowhere it's completely unfair.

But the way you speak/write ('these situations', she 'always' wants), it sounds like things are simmering in the background. Is there a wider context to all this?

Curious_Case

Don't reciprocate, that's childish & basic.

Develop occasional headaches, toothaches, backaches, etc. which put you out of action for a while.

Let her wonder if you're burnt out, depressed, seriously ill, etc.

She doesn't deserve to be treated like an adult until she treats you like one.

screamer

Stop doing anything on a Saturday. Let her get up early and do it herself. I know of a few guys who have thundering bitches of partners and nothing they do is enough. TBH my husband works all hours and is rarely home before 8.30 at night, and I’m so grateful for any help he gives me which is way less than what you do.

Lesalare

I'd probably just tell her next Saturday morning: "Hey the kids need their breakfast. It's your turn. I'll cut the grass later but I'd be grateful if you'd sort that for a change'.

Not really sure how she can argue this unless you have some situ where you are not working and she is the full-time main breadwinner.

km991148

Curious_Case wrote: »

Don't reciprocate, that's childish & basic.

Develop occasional headaches, toothaches, backaches, etc. which put you out of action for a while.

Let her wonder if you're burnt out, depressed, seriously ill, etc.

She doesn't deserve to be treated like an adult until she treats you like one.

Or instead of playing games maybe just talk about it and whatever else is going on at a time that's not stressful?

Lesalare

Curious_Case wrote: »

Don't reciprocate, that's childish & basic.

Develop occasional headaches, toothaches, backaches, etc. which put you out of action for a while.

Let her wonder if you're burnt out, depressed, seriously ill, etc.

She doesn't deserve to be treated like an adult until she treats you like one.

This is just playing games. Better to just say you need to chat to her about the situation and explain how you are feeling. If she can't do that calmly and listen to/accept your stance/views/feelings, there are bigger issues at play here.

karlitob

She sounds like a pain in the hoop.

I recommend reading this weeks AskRoe (doesn’t seem to be online) - you need to change the content to you situation but I think the answer is there for you and what you should do.

mohawk

Is Saturday the only day you help out? Why was she expecting the floors to be done?

Once you are both calmer could you broach the topic again. Get her to explain her point of view and you explain yours. Or will it be the same outcome. The aim of the discussion has be be to hear each other and not decide on who is right and who is wrong.

YellowLead

It honestly sounds like there is a much bigger issue at play here. Like others have suggested I think you two need to have some bigger conversations about how you both feel/want/need.
There could be other frustrations you both or one of you feel and this was just an example of where it spilled out.

Communication breakdown is something that can build upon itself over time and suddenly you feel like you are living with an annoying stranger who doesn’t understand you. Don’t let it get that far...

Curry Addict

maybe your wife feels she is doing too much of the housekeeping and is venting a little.
In general, I find it better to take her input seriously and try to figure it out instead of "defending it"
she needs you to undesrstand how she feels so focus that

The chan chan man

Thanks everyone. I appreciate it.

To try to answer some questions - she minds kids during the week while I’m also busy being the main bread winner. Her job is poxy, I wouldn’t like to mind kids. My own ar me enough! So i get that, its stressful. As such, i take the kids off her hands as much as I can. But I’m bollocksed tired as well most of the time from work.

The chores - cooking and cleaning are about 50/50. She does more in the mornings because she minds the (other peoples) kids. Part of the job in my view, but I’d be fckuing slaughtered if i said that!

I don’t take lie ins. When I’m up, I’m up. And I do that most weekends, sat and sun while she lies in bed. The lie ins don’t bother me one bit. She deserves them. But i fukcing hate when ive worked my hole off and she gets up at noon telling me ive missed a spot!

She’s constantly threatening to leave after every tiny row - so there’s MAJOR resentment there on her part. I’d love to know what I’ve done wrong.. When I ask i just get told its from years of being defensive! But, (and here i go being defensive...) i get defensive when someone attacks me like that. She’s angry a lot of the time. I’m a great dad, and I thought I was a good husband. But I can’t take a lifetime of this ****. Neither can she apparently.

Rubberchikken

You both need to give each other a chance to express opinions/complaints freely but if yours are met with threats of leaving and your efforts are belittled then maybe you need to involve a professional.

Is this Saturday work every Saturday?
You're both working. Yes it's hard minding kids even others but everyone deserves a test or lie in occasionally and this all seems a bit one sided.

What so you want to achieve?

Caranica

Surely you both should have one lie in each weekend. On the morning you're up you do as much as you can and the lie in partner helps to get the rest done when they get up. You seem to have a fair split the rest of the time?

Is getting a cleaner for a couple of hours a week an option?

Tork

At this stage the pair of you need to talk to a professional. A lot of resentment has built up on both sides and will likely get worse. You're angry and pissed off but so is she. You said she's angry all the time and constantly threatening to leave. Like the person who just posted below me, I find your tone quite aggressive too. Maybe it's just your anger coming out when you talk about this but it's something to bear in mind. I don't know you or your wife but if she's threatening to leave, there might be a grain of truth to her words. It also sounds like the communication between ye is terrible and that's feeding into the anger and frustration. Are the pair of you ever happy these days? Are you fighting more than you did before? How do you deal with arguments when they arise - has that changed? The atmosphere at home can't be great either and this is where the pair of you need to consider what it's doing to your own kids. Being a good dad isn't enough when the kids are waiting for the next row.

LegacyUser

You do seem very defensive and aggressive.

There are a few things to consider from a practical perspective. Do you really do 50/50? If you asked my husband, he woud say yes, but it is definitely more 80/20. For example, he would say that he does the shopping and I do the cooking. In reality, I do the cooking, meal planning and list writing. He only does the shopping (which I enjoy) because he does not want to be at home with the kids. He claims all gardening, but again in reality he mows the lawn. I plant, weed, water and maintain the beds and containers. He hoovers the floors once a week, but I have them done daily because I am on maternity leave. If your wife is at home, chances are that she is doing loads.

As for lie-ins. What ages are your kids? Is she up at night or up earlier than you in the morning? I am up at 7am every day. My husband lies in at the weekend. That said, he is often up and gone for 6am during the week, so am I getting the lie in then?! You said that she is up early during the week.

You are giving yourself a pat on the back for being a good father but I do not think that your communication style is a good thing for your kids to see at all. What are you planning to do when they are older and you are not happy with something that they have done and they immediately get defensive and argue you down? That is what you are teaching them. You are clearly aggressively defensive and your wife is clearly not feeling like she can say anything to you without you blowing up. Time to consult a professional I think. It must be an awful environment for your children to be in.

StevenToast

I can relate to alot of what the OP is saying....

...i feel a need to defend myself at times but when i do, my "tone" is not right and the wife gets upset....im starting to just suck it up....not say anything and letting things go.....

Thats not the solution but its where I am at.

Youre not the only one in this situation OP....maybe hearing that might help!

Sonic the Shaghog

Jesus "tone" and "defensive" it sounds more like the women ye are with are just trying to dress up controlling behaviour in a more intellectual package to me

Rubberchikken

I have to agree^. Somewhat.

Being cranky or p@sped off or snappy can come from being tired all the time and/or feeling that one person is doing everything but there’s a responsibility to a partner to be an adult and explain things fairly and calmly and give the other time to express their frustrations etc also.

Loverlyhorse

Curious_Case wrote: »

Don't reciprocate, that's childish & basic.

Develop occasional headaches, toothaches, backaches, etc. which put you out of action for a while.

Let her wonder if you're burnt out, depressed, seriously ill, etc.

She doesn't deserve to be treated like an adult until she treats you like one.

No offence, but your suggestion also sounds "childish and basic"? Seems contradictory.

BingCrosbee

The chan chan man wrote: »

Everything I do is defensive..

I get up early on a Saturday morning, wife has a lie in, i cook kids breakfast, clean the kitchen, clean garden after the dog, cut the grass and have dinner ready. Wife gets up late and says I didn’t clean the kitchen floors.. I then say “well jesus christ I did x, y and z while you had a lie in...” She gets angry and says I’m defensive.

Are you not supposed to defend yourself in that case?! How are you supposed to handle these situations?

Thanks

Edit - I should also add that she always wants to have her feelings validated, fair enough I guess. However even when those feelings are anger towards me, i’m not supposed to defend myself in the situation described above, and should instead acknowledge that she’s angry and validate her feelings and just apologise. To me, basically become a fcuking doormat and give her a free pass to say whatever she likes to me? Is this normal? How do you deal with it?!

I’m afraid her behaviour is how all wives behave, so unfortunately you better get used to it. Even when you think you have won an argument, she’ll be back later on to continue it and wear you down so that in the end she wins it. I have discussed this with all my male friends and they are in the same boat. This is the difference between men and women. It gets worse as you get older and you become a proper doormat.

dmm82

Wow. ridiculous comment, Complete generalisation. If you are so miserable then why are you still married? Can't see how the above post is supposed to benefit the op?

Rubberchikken

Mod note

BingCrosbee

Sweeping generalization never help.
Keep the comments constructive. Thanks.

Rubberchikken

Curious_Case

Loverlyhorse wrote: »

No offence, but your suggestion also sounds "childish and basic"? Seems contradictory.

None taken, it does!

However, I think she'll "go off on one" as a faux defence against any reasonable approach.

The objective is to trigger some form of introspection in an apparently selfish person.

Curious_Case

Lesalare wrote: »

This is just playing games. Better to just say you need to chat to her about the situation and explain how you are feeling. If she can't do that calmly and listen to/accept your stance/views/feelings, there are bigger issues at play here.

She doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Why not loosen her tendency to take him for granted in a way that she doesn't have a pre-prepared sham response to ?

stuboy01

All right, here goes.
OP...here is my wisdom.
theres a reason other posters have said all there mates experience this. its true. however. its not because women are nags, theyre not. shes just expressing frustration. its got nothing to do with the floor you missed. you are both just going thru a period of poor communication. kids are stressful, in that they place a lot of stress on a relationship. you are feeling hard done by. ok, her tone might seem mean but i reckon if you both talked to each other about how you are cooperating in parenting and family life, and not about division of chores etc, you might start to function better together.
you really need to look at family life as being part of a team and treat it as such. i hate the lie-in sh1te. where both partners are trying to get one over on the other at weekends. its BS.
you need to sit together and say, ok parenting is scary, its really overwhelming, and exhausting. how are we going to ensure that we look after each other. tell your wife that her mental welfare is you no1 priority. i bet she feels like shes drowning in kid life and probably that shes losing her identity. thats hard and maybe shes not expressing it. you may feel 'i work all week and have to deal with this crap at the weekend'. i get it. but you are both feeling sorry for yourselves. you need to communicate and look after eachother. there really should be a parenting relationship course. its hard to survive it. goodluck. and be nice to each other.

Neyite

I think most of your issues is down to a bad habit in communication. You are on the defensive, she's on the offensive/critical. Both of you are used to communicating so even when something isn't accusatory from her, you are probably on the defensive as a learned response - equally she starts out accusatory because she is expecting you to be defensive or angry in response so kind of coming out of her corner fighting.

There's a saying I came across some years ago and it stuck with me, and has helped me a lot: Don't demand as a right what you can ask as a favour. So, instead of "you didn't empty the bin" or "you never empty the bin" it's "could you empty the bin please, I can't lift it?" or "could you hold the bin while I lift the bag out?" Sometimes manners towards our partners can slip. We would never talk to a colleague that way, so it's funny the way we tend to behave better towards someone we've no feelings for yet the person we are supposed to love and cherish gets the brunt of our bad form.
Another thing is that I won't accept my OH doing chores 'for me' Early on, he said something like that - that he put a load of washing on for me and I ripped the piss out of him for it until he admitted he deserved it. Doing housework is not 'for me' because I'm the missus, it's for us, in our house.

It's possible that with a few sessions with a counsellor that you can both reset the way you speak to each other, and once you are able to do that, you should be able to speak to each other without expecting a row. If nothing else, the way you are as a couple, the way you speak to each other is the way you teach your children how relationships work. Right now you are teaching them a way that will cause them hurt and heartache in their future relationships - so maybe you could approach it from that point of view with her initially? I'm sure that these clashes are making both of you miserable and stressed and neither of you enjoy it, plus if it's going to affect your kids isn't it a good idea for you both to at least look into ways to change it for you all?

Keyzer

screamer wrote: »

Stop doing anything on a Saturday. Let her get up early and do it herself. I know of a few guys who have thundering bitches of partners and nothing they do is enough. TBH my husband works all hours and is rarely home before 8.30 at night, and I’m so grateful for any help he gives me which is way less than what you do.

You're a keeper...

mojesius

Just practical advice here, but maybe get a cleaner in once a week to do the heavy jobs. Use the time back as either your own time or quality/family time.

JustAThought

mojesius wrote: »

Just practical advice here, but maybe get a cleaner in once a week to do the heavy jobs. Use the time back as either your own time or quality/family time.

Agree totally with this - pressure off both sides and twenty euro for two hours spent in outsourcing a bit of graft.

OP - you said you were the main breadwinner but you also said your wife minds other peoples children. So she brings money in too.

- is it worth the stress on her if it puts her into this much of a mood
- how much does she bring in - maybe she is or considers herslef a 50:50 partner in the earning and sees you mopping a floor and messing about in the garden after the dog and it boils her stress levels up.
- wife possibly has calculated the savings on paying out for ‘professional ‘ childminding she contributes as well as the childminding (tax free money?) she brings in. Have you put a figure on this? How does it compare to
your take home pay?

In work we used have a list of housekeeping jobs that needed to be done daily and weekly for the office eg empty bins, clean interior windows, hoover carpets, empty toilet bins, mop toilet floors, clean mirrors, wash public surfaces areas, litter pick in public carpark, sweep outside streetfront and foyer areas, mop canteen kitchen floor, do canteen dishes etc. Each person was supposed to initial the jobs they got done when the place wasn’t busy. Same people did the easy jobs all the time. It wasn’t pretty for them when someone went back and made a spreadsheet graph out of it as part of a bonus complaint.

- Have you a list of weekly household tasks and how do you discuss and allocate those jobs/ roles - seems like this could be an issue and exhaustion.

If your wife keeps threatening to walkout over chores IMO its time to cherrypick a few she hates most and outsource them. Money spent can be deducted from online shopping fund or similar ad hoc budget/spending.

spaceHopper

The chan chan man wrote: »

she minds kids during the week while I’m also busy being the main bread winner. Her job is poxy, I wouldn’t like to mind kids. My own ar me enough!

That is very disrespectful to your wife, calling her job poxy and you are the main bread winner, you're effectively calling her a loser

YellowLead

spaceHopper wrote: »

That is very disrespectful to your wife, calling her job poxy and you are the main bread winner, you're effectively calling her a loser

To be fair I’d say he meant that it is a really hard job and just articulated in a funny way.
Plus if he is earning more then he is the main bread winner, doesn’t mean that he thinks her contribution is any less important.

TheBoyConor

I'd say you need to step back and look at it all op.
What you are describing is a situation that a great many women find themselves in almost exactly a lot of the time. Work a full weeks work, and then having to do the majority of the house work, coming and child related work. And they just get on with it.
But now because it is a man left in this situation, somehow it's less acceptable?

I'm not saying anything one way or the other, but I'm just pointing out that men are very quick to complain about such a situation whereas if their wife or a woman was in the situation the man wouldn't think twice about it and they'd think her giving out about it was just nagging .

tscul32

Maybe it's the individual things rather than how much you do that's an issue for her. Does she have to wash the floors Monday- Friday when she's childminding? If so and she doesn't enjoy it then maybe that's the job that she really wants done. One time we were due to have people over and the house was a bit of a state. I had to go out for something and asked my husband to do something with the place. I came home to a freshly painted box room. Now we both handled it maturely - I gently explained that while, yes, it was on the todo list, we now still had all the other stuff to do. He had looked at all the options and done the thing that appealed most to him, but it wasn't what was needed the most. But sometimes it can be tough on both parties. I hate emptying the dishwasher- just a pet hate, no real reason. Back when I wasn't working outside the home I'd do it Monday to Friday, he'd do it at the weekend. But sometimes he'd be doing other jobs around the house at the weekend and so I'd end up emptying it then too. Would be petty not to, I hadn't anything else on. But then I'd have to do it Mon- Fri again. The next weekend I'd be like I've emptied this damn thing every day for the last 12 days and if I do it this weekend again I'll be up to 19 days in a row. I know it's silly and petty for a 5 min job but still. But we work well together so I'll go get the screws or paint he needs and he'll do the dishwasher.
It's all just give and take. Make a list of the jobs to be done and agree a priority order. When she gets up she can tackle what's left on the list. Or she can leave the rest until Sunday if she wants a proper day off. But her nitpicking and you getting all defensive is not working. You need to sort out something that you both agree to.
One other thing is being at home all week can be tough. I used to envy my husband's change of scenery when the weekend came, whereas I was still looking at the same 4 walls all day, every day.

newman10

The chan chan man wrote: »

Thanks everyone. I appreciate it.

To try to answer some questions - she minds kids during the week while I’m also busy being the main bread winner. Her job is poxy, I wouldn’t like to mind kids. My own ar me enough! So i get that, its stressful. As such, i take the kids off her hands as much as I can. But I’m bollocksed tired as well most of the time from work.

The chores - cooking and cleaning are about 50/50. She does more in the mornings because she minds the (other peoples) kids. Part of the job in my view, but I’d be fckuing slaughtered if i said that!

I don’t take lie ins. When I’m up, I’m up. And I do that most weekends, sat and sun while she lies in bed. The lie ins don’t bother me one bit. She deserves them. But i fukcing hate when ive worked my hole off and she gets up at noon telling me ive missed a spot!

She’s constantly threatening to leave after every tiny row - so there’s MAJOR resentment there on her part. I’d love to know what I’ve done wrong.. When I ask i just get told its from years of being defensive! But, (and here i go being defensive...) i get defensive when someone attacks me like that. She’s angry a lot of the time. I’m a great dad, and I thought I was a good husband. But I can’t take a lifetime of this ****. Neither can she apparently.

Seems as if your wife uses Passive Agressive behaviour, you BOTH need to sort it now, maybe professional help, otherwise it may blister