John Wick 4 (and possibly 5)

Brief_Lives

awesome..... (taking it with a pinch of salt, but I am a John Wick fan)

Almost 3 hours is pushing it a bit isn't it? Like I'm a fan of the franchise, stylised violence, Keanu, and the preposterous idea there's this chain of high-end hotels located in major cities around the world whose clientele are made up mostly of assassins; but any movie whose main premise is action sequences and shooting goons in the head should never be more than 90 minutes long.

peteeeed

Added

johnny_ultimate

Wrong thread I think @peteeeed :)

TheIrishGrover

I think one complaint (It's dumb) is a bit harsh. The John Wick movies were always GLORIOUSLY dumb and fun. They know exactly what they are: Everyone's an assassin and/or tattooed model. Everyone is super-cool. You can't have Hiroyuki Saneda, Donnie Yen and Keanau Reeves in the same movie without it being monumentally dope (As per Bane in the Teen Titans movie). All they are missing is Jet Li and Maggie Cheung (I know, I know, Saneda and Sawayama are Japanese and the rest are Chinese but do you think that's gonna bother me in this? Nah).

It's a series that embraces its lunacy and I say bring it on! As stated above, these always leave a smile on my face at their balls-to-the-wall action and coolness. Yep, count me in.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329312#Comment_120329312

I think she means there there is one piece of the movie, 1 aspect, 1 part of the plot, which she thinks is dumb... not the movie itself.

johnny_ultimate

I'll always defend a lengthy running time - filmmakers should make a film as long as they want. I will say, though, that I've lost some appreciation for the series as it has doubled down on its plot, lore etc... The first film excels thanks to its zero-nonsense world-building and setup. While subsequent films have certainly amped up the ambition (and quality) in the action and setpiece department, they've also IMO lost some of the spark and central momentum - similar to The Raid vs The Raid 2. For me, the more expansive the world of John Wick becomes, the less interesting it is. I really couldn't care less about the detailed machinations of secret assassin leagues. Whereas it was delightfully effective when Wick just walked into that hotel the first time around and there was this whole other world playfully hinted at - just enough to be tantalising without getting in the way of the straightforward revenge film that was playing out.

Stahelski can and should make the film he wants, and fingers crossed this one still delivers plenty within its nearly three-hour runtime. I've little doubt there'll be plenty of cool action to enjoy. But the more epic the series becomes, I do certainly miss the simpler pleasures of that first film.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329312#Comment_120329312

I broadly agree with you, but I also think the Wick series has lost a lot of brevity and punch as it went on - in exchange for the increasingly baggy and IMO very boring and talky world-building. It's easy to forget the first film was a lean machine of John Wick avenging his dog (lol!) against a bunch of otherwise pretty "realistic" Eastern Euro gang members. Now all this Hidden World of Assassins has kinda lost the plot a bit, I kinda preferred it when Wick was just a really, really good hitman - not one part of some Secret League.

Have still enjoyed the series greatly, and my opinion really changed after a second watch of #1 when initial thoughts were all a bit "so what?". But I'd just like to see all the plot guff throttled back a smidge.

billyhead

Which one of the 3 movies would be your favourite? I would choose the 2nd one.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331922#Comment_120331922

I agree with this. I do love the stripped back nature of the first one but because of that it does feel like a very generic action revenge movie. I love the world building in the second one but it definitely starts to overcomplicate things in 3.

peteeeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331922#Comment_120331922

i love all 3 , really fit well together even though the 3rd got a bit of stick, i loved it , will watch them all before the 4th

~Rebel~

2 and 3 are good fun, but I love the first. A tight 100 minutes that sets itself apart from other revenge movies with the really well handled world building and playful tone around it all. The first time you watch it, it's genuinely surprising at each step - from the backstory, to his loss, and the dog, to digging up the coins and guns, and re-entering the criminal underworld from his past. It just hands out little hints of a bigger world - like the corpse removal guys working for coins - drawing you in. Brilliant bad guy duo too, with the son you hate, but the father you can empathise with.

Brief_Lives

Nice

https://twitter.com/JohnWickMovie/status/1633558208701943817?t=V_NUPj6DnLKPsiRDC4l2LA&s=19

Heckler

Was (and still am) a massive fan of the 1st one. Have seen it quite a few times. Second one was entertaining to get back into WickWorld. Third for me dragged and I never finished it. Maybe just wasn't in the mood at the time. Will defo try the 3 again before the next one.

Agree with Johnny Ultimate in that a lot of the pleasure of the first was not quite not knowing what was happening. Him knowing russian at the petrol station, digging up the guns and coins, the tattoos, 12 for dinner and the cleanup crew, Jimmy the cop.

Now that the mystery is gone its a fairly generic action series albeit with absolutely amazing action sequences.

JP Liz V1

Lance Reddick has died at the age of 60

pixelburp

That's quite shocking: 60's no age at all these days. There's no cause of daeth; the cops found him but it seemed to be natural.

Not an actor with a huge range, but by god he had charisma and presence by the bucketful. I knew him first from Fringe (a show that has become curiously forgotten), not The Wire as many others might have.

mailforkev

Going to see this tonight, have managed to avoid reading much about it so hopefully I can just park my brain and be entertained.

B.A._Baracus

I was randomly looking at reddit and some jerk posted John wick 4 spoilers. Wasn't even on a John wick thread. It was a thread about Seinfeld! Hate people who do that.

Meh. Still gonna see it in the cinema tho.

johnny_ultimate

Good, solid film. It could certainly lose some of the fat - one or two subplots / characters don't really resolve in any satisfactory way - but when it's good, it's as good as the series has been. In an era where action scenes are cut to bits with rapid edits every second or so, the filmmakers here know it's best to let stunts and actions play out in longer shots. It's hardly one-take stuff - except one neat overhead sequence in the film's back half - but everything crunches and hits the way it should. One of the few Hollywood action franchises to get this basic stuff right. It helps that the stunts and fight scenes are so crunchy in the first place - while it does revisit some ground from previous films, there are also plenty of novel locations here. A fight in speeding traffic and a lengthy staircase brawl stand out as highlights, as does one set in a multi-story dance club with characters being hurled from one floor to the next with back-breaking abandon.

Donnie Yen is a superb addition to the series - he out-acts and out-fights everyone, and there's no shortage of charismatic actors and talented fighters on screen. His character is a classic take on the blind swordsman trope, with the choreography equal parts graceful and fumbling. He's a funny, charming screen presence as well. What a performance.

It also does address one of the major existential issues the series has to deal with - how do you keep upping the revenge stakes for film after film? JW4 doesn't totally nail the landing - some questionable compositing work undermines an otherwise satisfying finale - but it does at least do some self-reflection and moves Wick's character on to a more contemplative one, even if it feels like Reeves has less dialogue than ever. It does, to its credit, also feel less weighed down by world-building and lore than its predecessor, even if there is probably a tighter film than this to be made.

Spoiler Warning

A definite highlight is the slapstick-level gag where Wick is thrown back down the 200-odd steps he's just fought up. A wonderfully audacious punchline to throw into the middle of a climactic action scene.

silverharp

tried not to read or see anything, but just noticing that any thumbnails Ive seen have words like "amazing" in them, RT has a consensus opinion in the high nineties for both, rare enough. looks like the film should be a great success.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120398851#Comment_120398851

Saw it last night and had thought it was a solid film. Had a chat with herself and agreed it was like a 6 or 7 out of 10. Went onto RT and wasn’t sure why it was so high.

Dont get me wrong, the action scenes are very good and has a few innovative scenes but found some of the fight scenes drawn out and suffer on the entertainment side from looking so familiar. As always, you really have to suspend the disbelief. The new locations end up carrying some scenes.

New characters are decent (Caine & Nobody) but only a generic bad guy. Think all could have been better developed. Story’s quite predictable in terms of who’s going to die, who’s going to come good and more.

It is a good film and perfect if you want a fix of action like the previous ones. Just not a 95% for me.

TheIrishGrover

Just out of this. Enjoyed it but, dare I say it, yeah, it could have done with slightly shorter (Or one fewer) action sequences.

It's preposterously OTT stupidity but it knows it. Everyone is either an assassin or a tattooed model or both. Everything is stupidly cool. Impeccably-suited ultra-cool stars squaring off against eachother with swords and guns. But it's no-brainer fun.

Those who preferred the lean mean original will find this a stretch. It doesn't go deeper into the whole "The Table" mythos but there is more of it and you REALLY have to suspend your disbelief. This makes the operatic, multi-angle, fight sequences in the last one look like the hallway scene in Oldboy.

And as an aside: There is a (good) post-credit scene.

santana75

Saw this tonight and I'm not trying to be funny here but has anyone heard news of keanu reeves having a stroke before this was filmed? His delivery is very bad, like its painful to hear him just say "Yeah". His dialogue was definitely stripped right back, he is very monosyllabic, even more so than usual. Most of his fight scenes are of him just shooting people, and you can definitely see the stunt guys taking their time to get back up, you can see them waiting for "their turn". I hope in wrong, it may not be a stroke but he isn't right something is definitely off with him neurologically.

All that said I thought this was the best film of the series. It was nearly 3 hours but I never felt the time at all. Donnie yen is brilliant and he lights up the screen anytime he's on it.

Brief_Lives

I Thought this was very good.

The Japanese girl action scenes were excellent and clancy brown is always a treat..

It's so preposterous but utterly entertaining....

nullObjects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400310#Comment_120400310

I was wondering if maybe they added in some content they would have used in another movie because of the delay. It did drag a little towards the end even though I loved the last few action sequences

EoinMcLovin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404308#Comment_120404308

She was played by Rina Sawayama who's actually a singer and had no acting experience before this film, thought her fight scenes were pretty good. That top down scene near the end reminded me of a video game for some reason. Also thought the music was pretty good throughout the movie. And that scene where the dog pissed on the dead body had everybody in the film laughing

Beric Dondarrion

Saw this last night, agree with other posts on here that the run time could have been trimmed down a bit but otherwise it's a solid action flick and an enjoyable piece of nonsense. A standout sequence is definitely the overhead POV shootout through a Paris building - absolutely mental stuff 😊

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414196#Comment_120414196

I actually loved that scene. You wouldnt want to be drunk watching it though, you might puke on your shoes :)

bucketybuck

John Wick 4: 4/10

My main takeaway was that John Wick 1 gets better with every sequel that comes out, and that the directors have forgotten why that one was so good.

I have no problem with the rule of cool and love a big silly action fest, but this is just bloated and really suffers for it. Was there an editors strike or something, because damn this film could be improved to 8/10 simply by a good editor going to work on the thing.

Why don't directors understand that an action scene being too long and padded can hurt just as much as being too short and basic, there is a sweet spot and this film misses it again and again. You shot the first wave of mooks, then you beat the armoured mooks, then you fought the high table mooks, now its 15 minutes into this one scene and what happens? Oh, its more armoured mooks, followed by more high table mooks, and on and on and on. They turned a great action scene into a boring waste of time.

It might not have mattered so much except that they have completely neutered the action scenes because of 2 things, damage sponge enemies and the Guinness world record for stunt men visibly and blatantly waiting for their marks in the background. It was basically WWE in how obvious the mooks were in glancing at Wick and making sure they didn't move until it was their turn to move. And when they do fight it is 20 bullets and 15 karate flips to take down anybody, because everybody has those stupid bullet proof suits and nobody can do a headshot. I assume I missed the scene where they all got together Ron Burgandy style and agreed no touching the face.

Those stupid suits, absolutely the worst thing to happen the series, why be creative when you can just have Reeves running around holding his arm up over his head for three hours.

But you know what the absolute worst thing about this movie is? Its that John Wick is no longer a bad ass. The first movie did so well at building him up and then showing him to be dangerous as ****, everybody was afraid of him and you could see it when attacking the nightclub or going into that church. In the first film you could believe he was a badass action star, a force of nature pushing through to his goal.

In this movie he isn't an action star, he is an actor wearing plot armour and waiting for everybody to get in place so he can pull his trigger and move on. He is also without agency, because all progress in the movie only happens because somebody else steps in to save him and push him along.

The tracker character is completely and utterly superfluous, the "bopper" tribute only made me wish I was watching "The Warriors" instead, mooks getting hurt more by thrown guns than bullets is stupid, the list goes on.

Pacific Rim is in my top ten of films so don't talk to me about switching my brain off and enjoying the spectacle, I am perfectly content to sit and watch stupid. This film isn't enjoyable stupid, it is frustrating stupid, there is a difference. I wish they would go back and reshoot it without the magic suits, that alone would probably save the film. The mooks would drop quicker, Wick would look dangerous again and we'd probably end up with a tight and far better 2 hour movie.

And no, I'm not angry about John Wick. Just disappointed.

4/10 is about right for this. Went into the realms of parody at times. People in the cinema were clapping though, so I could be wrong!