Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382830#Comment_119382830

In other words, the claim that, according to the study, eight months after the second dose the vaccinated have less protection against infection than the unvaccinated, is true.

It's not really a question of whether or not the study supports my claim - I posted figure 2 and quoted it. - Vaccine effectiveness (any vaccine) against SARS-CoV-2 infection of any severity in 842 974 vaccinated individuals matched to an equal number of unvaccinated individuals for up to 9 months of follow-up

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382856#Comment_119382856

You keep rather obviously ignoring the point about severe covid.

Protection against severe COVID-19 was better maintained for up to 9 months of follow-up, although some waning became evident after more than 4 months. 

So the unvaccinated are at significantly higher risk.

It is simply false to claim as you did you are better off unvaccinated if for the entire trial period it showed they were at significantly higher risk of severe covid - more than 50 percent. Which we saw reflected in hospital and ICU admissions.

Finally as noted above it is unclear if the study controlled for health care workers who would be over represented in younger age groups of vaccinated. This could account for why we see negative effectiveness if not controlled for

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382888#Comment_119382888

And eight months after the second dose the vaccinated have less protection against infection, of any severity, than the unvaccinated.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382915#Comment_119382915

Well I dispute that with reference to healthcare workers noted above.

Plus the study showed mRNA vaccinated to have more protection against infection v unvaccinated even up to 9 months.

It seems rather important to have significant protection for many months during which the pandemic was raging.

Something which the unvaccinated did not have.

It showed up to 9 months siginificant protection v severe covid.

So it is simply false to say it supports the position it is better to be uncaccinated.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382915#Comment_119382915

But you're again misrepresenting the study.

Please quote directly where the authors of the study state that people are better off not getting vaccinated?

If you can't then you are stating your own biased, uneducated opinion, not reporting the study.

It's the same thing you're doing with the previous study. Taking parts out of context and ignoring the bits that don't agree with your conspiracy theory.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382915#Comment_119382915

I've yet to meet an unvaccinated person who got very sick from omnicron, but know plenty of vaccinated people who were very sick with horrific sore throats etc

My son included, he's in his early 20's I didn't influence his decision. He's a young man now. He got over it but said that the vaccine did nothing for him.

Had omnicron myself and had a bit of a headache for maybe 6 hour's, then very tired, a bit cold and out of it for 3 day's but I loved the lucid dream state that was surreal. As if I was tripping or something.

As my work collegue said, in his cockney accent man did you have that lucid fever dream state too, I loved that fckn hell it was like taking acid lol

King Mob

Also lads, how does this latest study fit with your other claims.

For the moment, let's ignore for the moment that according to you, it directly contradicted the previous study hometruths posted.

Instead let's look at it in context of the claim there's a giant conspiracy to suppress doctors speaking out against the vaccine.

If that's the case, how was this study published? Shouldn't it have been blocked? Shouldn't the authors have been too afraid of being "struck off" to submit it? How come they haven't suffered any negative consequences?

This is another failing on conspiracy theories. The claims rarely fit together. They're usually made in isolation and the grifters flogging them rely on their audience having a short attention span.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362561#Comment_119362561

Seems that they have discovered the cause of the hepatitis cases, and its nothing to do with covid vaccines. Instead the theory is that it's down to lack of social contacts for young children and that their immune systems didn't get the normal workout of childhood illness due to lockdowns:

BBC News - Likely cause of mystery child hepatitis outbreak found

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61269586

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382855#Comment_119382855

And still 0 to back up any of the odd fantasies you've been trying to portray as fact and others having to teach you about the birds and the bees.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119385551#Comment_119385551

So it's due to lockdowns. I had the same debate here 2 years ago if lockdowns were killing more than they were saving. The lockdown and mask affianiados ridiculed it. Sounds familiar. I see now another one of the most vaxxed countries in the world has one of the worst hospitalisation rates. Bonkers

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386152#Comment_119386152

There were 10 cases in the UK, so clearly not the case that lockdowns killed more people than Covid.

But whilst the idea that lockdowns were the bigger problem at the time is clearly rubbish, nobody was claiming at the time that they were not causing other problems with mental health, socialising for kids, education and predictions that the likes of this kind of issue with hepatitis would be a consequence.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386183#Comment_119386183

Lockdowns I believe without proof killed many more people and will kill many more going forward due to non diagnosed diseases. Mental health. Immunity. And many other factors.

snowcat

Back to Covid vaccine Safety. Why are the most vaxxed countries in the world suffering the most from Covid. Surely it should be the opposite?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386204#Comment_119386204

People believe in the tooth fairy. It doesn’t make the fantasy real. Doctors and consultants were still diagnosing people and hospitals were still doing tests during lockdown.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386227#Comment_119386227

Last time you were pushing this you were on about Africa which you still haven’t provided figures for.

If a country isn’t testing, then the confirmed cases will be low.

snowcat

It's an opinion as the moderators have agreed is valid. Anyway I'm not talking about cases I'm talking about actual hospitalizations. The Australian healthcare system is nearly overwhelmed. Why?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386227#Comment_119386227

That's quite interesting, but I'm sure it's nothing to do with the virus mutating more and it outmanoeuvred the vaccines.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386411#Comment_119386411

Sorry, last time you were presenting it as fact. Therefore, I assumed you were continuing with that rather than changing it to fantasy, especially as you posted it again as if it’s fact rather than opinion.

snowcat

Ok so it's fantasy? Can you factually contradict it or is your opinion fantasy?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386474#Comment_119386474

Without facts to back up an opinion, it might as well be a fantasy.So if you provide some facts, then great as it would be an opinion based on facts.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386411#Comment_119386411

In January 2021 (pre vaccine) there were 2000 covid hospitalisations in Ireland and 221 in ICU.

Australia has 5400 in hospital and 161 in ICU.

Australia has 5 times the population of Ireland.

Australia has nothing to the level of restrictions Ireland had at that time.

snowcat

Yes but the vaccines were out way out of this. Or so we were told. They have failed spectacularly at a cost of billions and untold side effects going forward

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386707#Comment_119386707

Untold side effects? You are making a statement of fact which is without foundation. And therefore without merit. You cant stand over it.

It is reasonable to state that the situation in Australia would be far worse with far higher ICU and deaths and restrictions were it not for vaccines. That is not an opinion. That is based on the evidence cited above from the Lancet study above showing the effectiveness of vaccines against severe covid.

"For the outcome of severe COVID-19, vaccine effectiveness waned from 89% (82 to 93; p<0·001) at 15–30 days to 64% (44 to 77; p<0·001) from day 121 onwards."

You have not raised any specific safety issue with the vaccine nor outlined why Australia would be better off without vaccines.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386746#Comment_119386746

And why is Australia better off with vaccines? Was it omicron or the vaccines that have made their situation as good/bad as it is? Why are they worse than Africa Romania Bulgaria South Africa with huge vaxx rates?

@hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119382915#Comment_119382915

@hometruths , meet confidence interval.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval

snowcat

I'm an engineer. I understand confidence intervals. I'm talking about hospitalizations.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386788#Comment_119386788

Asked and answered. With reference to evidence.

You have provided zero evidence you just throw out questions and numbers and name random countries and continents! Without any attempt to scrutinise how comparable the countries are or quality / reporting of data.

Does Australia have a comparable demographics or seasons to "Africa"? Or level of hospital care? Or reporting of cases? Or deaths?

This is what happens when Omicrom hit a population with large number of unvaxxed vulnerable:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-61586600

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/04/study-sheds-light-death-spike-hong-kong-covid-19-surge

You simply havent got a case here.

drunkmonkey

It's not reasonable to state that the situation in Australia would be far worse with far higher ICU and deaths were it not for vaccines. (Their unvaxxed stats are not supporting that theory).

Australia is dealing with a completely different virus than the Whuan strain. It's not what hospitals had to deal with here in early 2020.

Now if this Vaccine prevents hospitalisation and death why do double vaxxed, masked, double boosted Fauci and Biden need to go on a course of Paxlvoid? It either works or it doesn't. Their experts obliviously believe it doesn't.

snowcat

Anyone who believes it works against infection needs a serious reality check. I'm glad that at least we can acknowledge that without fear of being ridiculed or banned from forums. The serious illness death is still up for debate.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386824#Comment_119386824

Right. You make a claim without evidence and dont even try to rebut the evidence provided re: vaccine effectiveness and Hong Kongs Omicron deaths.

No. It doesnt either work or it doesnt. That is a strawman argument. So if something doesnt work 100 percent effectively 100 percent of the time it doesnt work. Which pretty much means no medicine or vaccine or treatement or procedure works. Thats the ridiculous standard you have set for yourself.