Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517915#Comment_118517915

As I recall, all the fertility nonsense stemmed from one article from Australia some time ago that made its way onto FB and then everywhere. Here is one of many references debunking this claim (and, if you state some Dr.s and researchers have voiced concerns, name them.)

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/covid-19-vaccines-dont-affect-ovaries-or-fertility-in-general-the-vaccines-are-highly-effective-at-preventing-illness-and-death/

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517957#Comment_118517957

There are 3 concerns with these nano lipids

1 Weren't supposed to travel from injection site

2 Numerous women have reported concerns about their cycle being interrupted/disrupted after vaccine

3 The two above being dismissed as anti-vax propaganda, the first 2 points warrant investigation especially if you want sceptics to trust the vaccine roll out

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517980#Comment_118517980

So, you don't have any researchers raising concerns? Because those concerns were addressed in the article I linked to. Have a read and get back to us.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518003#Comment_118518003

See point 3

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518007#Comment_118518007

First one absolutely is anti-vaxx propaganda. Was 'it won't travel from the vaccine site' ever a prerequisite that was articulated anywhere but the anti-vaxx media?

"Women's complaints" about interrupted menses has been mentioned here before and discussed.

So, you still don't have any researchers raising concerns you can reference? And, obviously the vaccines are working, the pubs are open.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518007#Comment_118518007

Ok. Let's pretend.

You claim that the vaccines cause fertility problems. You can't show any evidence for this, nor can you point to any experts who are "concerned" by this. Nor can you counter the points raised by the article posted by igotadose. But lets ignore all that and pretend the claim is true.

What do you believe is the reason for this?

Conspiracy theorists on this thread have claimed that the vaccines are part of a plot to depopulate the planet. Do you believe this? Yes or no?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518007#Comment_118518007

They have been investigated though, both in papers I previously linked and numerous and many safety trials for the vaccines that contain NLP.

The world has moved on, what you need to state what level of proof is required for you and try and make the case that it's reasonable.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518046#Comment_118518046

I never claimed that potential vaccine issues are deliberate as I don't believe that is ever the case...

But there is a very long history of big pharma/medical device hiding the side affects of their drugs and implants...

J&J, Merck & Stryker (Baby Powder with asbestos) (antiinflammatory drug that killed 60,000 people & caused 140,000 heart attacks) (metal on metal implants that caused poison and psychosis)

All of the above were known about and hidden in order to profit...

Also the lack of long term data on safety of these nano lipids is a concern...how long did it take for us to get proof of the damages of smoking is just one example...

Full disclosure, double Vaxxed myself, but I feel the immediate dismissal of concerns as anti-vax is scary...it's just going to hinder open discourse on concerns

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518082#Comment_118518082

But why are you dismissing the concerns that it's a plot to cause depopulation?

How about the claims that the vaccines contain secret nanotechnology?

How about the claims that the vaccines are more dangerous than the virus?

This concern about women's fertility has only come up in the last few pages after hundreds of posts claiming all of those things.

What you are doing is pretending that those claims haven't been made. You're pretending as if that this one issue is what people have been arguing against this whole thread.

You've been asked to show that these concerns are held by researchers. You dodged that question.

You've been shown where this concern has been looked into and addressed, both in the article igotadose just posted to you and eariler in the thread. You ignored those.

If you believe that this concern shouldn't be treated as if it was anti-vaxx propaganda, why are you behaving like it is?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118514428#Comment_118514428

I’m not sure if you read the article you sent me, but she was driven to do that because of the restrictions you are so fond of imposing on us. But I guess there’s no downside for you. One less unvaccinated person to worry about. Mission accomplished.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518113#Comment_118518113

Smoking being bad for you was deemed conspiracy theory many years ago...

The most plausible explanation is that potential side effects are incidental and not deliberate...

Not saying there is any link with vaccine and fertility...

But we were told at the beginning of the Vax roll out that these nano lipids never leave the deltoid, but we know now that they migrate from the injection site, and it may be 100% harmless(and I certainly hope so) but they either didn't know it would travel or they did and lied about it...

In relation to nano technology or magnets in vaccine ...what would the purpose of those be...also depopulation would only harm the profits of big pharma and would be detrimental to the current world economic model...and older population is good for big pharma profits(US alone Cancer treatment is worth 1 billion a year to big pharma)

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516149#Comment_118516149

I never said they weren't being studied, I think more resources should be given to them to complete research faster, particularly the cases of allergic reaction and anaphylaxis, as a lot of others (such as menstrual effects) are suspected allergic reactions.

I don't know know what your last statement is there for, I never said the vaccine wasn't safe.... you seem to be trying to catch me out for some reason, where I actually haven't said anything controversial (or maybe you're just a wanker in general, I don't know)

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518142#Comment_118518142

Smoking being bad for you wasn't considered a conspiracy theory, it was just an as yet unproven fact. Nobody was claiming that some unknown evil secret society was conspiring to tell people that tobacco was bad when it really wasn't.

Then it turned out that the tobacco companies were actually conspiring to hide the details.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518082#Comment_118518082

the immediate dismissal of concerns as anti-vax is scary

This what gets me. Seems to be very little transparency relating to the safety trials and data, and rather than increasing transparency to alleviate concerns, anybody who even hints that there might be concerns is smeared as a conspiracy theorist spreading misinformation.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519073#Comment_118519073

Have you spent much time looking at data regarding any previous vaccine trials?

I bet you know far more about the trials for the likes of Pfizer, Astra Zeneca and Moderna covid vaccines, and potentially a few of the others, than you have ever heard about all other vaccines ever. The general public have access to way more information than ever before about these vaccines, we've had two years of daily reports on various things to do with viruses and vaccines and every stage during the trials and rollouts, we've had more data fed to us about case rates and transmission of viruses and the effectiveness of vaccines that ever before.

All but a small handful of people would know much more, and when those people have been put on Zoom calls to news presenters to explain things to us there's not been any indication that the people who actually understand this stuff really well have not been given the access to the data they need or would normally expect to see for any other virus or vaccine rollout.

We've got more access to more information than ever before, but you think that indicates something being hidden from us?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519560#Comment_118519560

What usually happens is they ask for a certain trial or number of participants or certain length of study, then when it's shown that has happened, or, scientifically, the equivalent of, they go off in a huff trying to set new standards to convince "them", as said, the rest of the world has moved on, the data is in, the number of events that have occurred is in the billions.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518142#Comment_118518142

No, the link between smoking and cancer was not a conspiracy theory. It was not suggested and discovered by untrained amateurs finding clues on the internet. It was discovered by actual scientists using actual science.

So you agree that all of the conspiracy theories being proposed in this thread are false and should be dismissed?

That's great.

And now, you're saying that there's no link to the side effects you were concerned about. Also great, there's no need to worry about that either.

Your only concern is this lipids think. Cool. What's the potential harm of this? Can you show any evidence that there is harm from this? Have you any evidence to show this was known when people said it couldn't happen?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519560#Comment_118519560

And what's funny is that earlier in the thread, they would pointing to the VAERS and Eudravigilance data to prove that the vaccines were dangerous.

They were literally using the information collected, collated and presented by the people they believe are behind the conspiracy to show that there must be a conspiracy to hide the side effects of the vaccine.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519073#Comment_118519073

There's a vast amount of information available on vaccines. Countless studies. The VAERS, Yellow Card and EU reports are fully transparent, but what happens? Individuals who are "just worried about the safety of vaccines" completely misinterpret the figures. This forum has been stuffed with them. These cranks are the reason why people have little time for anti-vaxxers and their ilk (the "I'm just concerned brigade")

If you genuinely wanted proper information you would be going to the relevant sources, the fact that you are on a conspiracy forum speaks volumes.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520584#Comment_118520584

CQD made a claim that vaccines caused 2 deaths for every 1 saved from COVID on the other forum, still waiting for the source on that one, but I'm betting the answer is some form of VAERS (of course the poster "got busy" before they had time to explain anything).

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520697#Comment_118520697

Its always the same. These posters come in with the whole concern angle coupled with the "I'm not an anti-vaxxer", then proceed to make identical logical fallacies and throw up all the same red flags as anti-vaxxers.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520584#Comment_118520584

I am talking about the raw data from the safety trials that pharmaceutical companies carried out and are the basis for the emergency use approval.

Eg Pfizer’s pivotal covid vaccine trial was funded by the company and designed, run, analysed, and authored by Pfizer employees. The company and the contract research organisations that carried out the trial hold all the data, and they are refusing to entertain requests to release that data.

Big pharma does not have a stellar track record. At least three of the companies making covid-19 vaccines have past criminal and civil settlements costing them billions of dollars. One pleaded guilty to fraud. Now the covid pandemic has minted many new pharma billionaires, and vaccine manufacturers have reported tens of billions in revenue.

And we are left to just trust “in the system,” with the distant hope that the underlying data may become available for independent scrutiny at some point in the future. Transparency is the key to building trust and an important route to answering people’s legitimate questions about the efficacy and safety of vaccines and treatments and the clinical and public health policies established for their use.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520724#Comment_118520724

Ok.

What evidence do you have that there is secret side effects of the vaccine? WHat evidence do you have that all of the studies showing the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines have been falsified?

Conspiracy theorists her have made a great number of false claims about the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine. Both now and in the past. Are you saying that we should trust them?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520724#Comment_118520724

All the usual red flags

"Big pharma was bad in the past" - All companies have histories, e.g. IBM has had lawsuits, scandals, regulatory issues, etc. It doesn't mean modern product X or Y is automatically "bad". It's judged on it's own merit and ever changing modern standards and regulations.

"Companies make money" - Mask-makers made billions, doesn't mean anything nefarious is happening

"And we are left to trust in the system" - There's plenty of transparency and information available. This is available to experts, scientists, medical professionals, vaccine researchers and makers who are taking the same vaccines we are.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520724#Comment_118520724

In the case of the COVID vaccines, the trials and studies have been ran across multiple continents by different people, companies and vendors, all reaching the same conclusions and submitted to multiple authorities as well as having multiple peer reviewed papers submitted to multiple different, trusted, publishing medium.

The bar is incredibly high for medicine, you saw with the FDA approval that the risk/reward of at least 250:1 for myocarditis as it was for young males was debated at length during the approval process, all of which was available publicly.

As I've said above, you need to define what you think the bar should be and then convince others that the level is rational (while also making out that you have any expertise to know what the bar is), right now you are participating in gish gallop argument of grabbing lots of random items as if it adds any weight at all to your argument, and, as I've explained above, it doesn't.

And again, emergency approval was never used in the EU, CMA has a higher bar requiring more detailed documentation than emergency approval (as was used in the UK and US and one of the reasons they approved a few weeks before the EU). It also puts the liability onto the manufacturer (in the US there's legislation in place for COVID vaccines and treatments that the government accepts liability).

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520724#Comment_118520724

probably shouldn't go down this route, but hey, worth a try anyway...

say you are right, safety figures were "bought" by the researchers to get it to market....

as of Friday, there has been over 550 million confirmed, administered, Pfizer vaccines given...

That, and the Moderna vaccines, as they use MRNA technology, they have been the focus of numerous studies since day 1.

When I say numerous, I literally mean thousands, of ratified legitimate studies, which are national/international scale, but also localised to specific areas and health concerns...

We're well over a year into mass vaccination, and over 2 years nearly from proof of concept trials

The only boxes that haven't been checked from a safety aspect is long term follow ups (which usually only go to year 5, if even, a lot finish at 3 years and pretty much check up that you haven't died)

Given these have been the most scrutinised vaccines in history, do you not think something of a safety concern would have cropped up by now?

Case and point, Astra Zeneca.... found an issue, stopped the administration until further evidence was provided, and continued again when the science allowed

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520972#Comment_118520972

This is something that always confused me.

If things are like the conspiracy theorists are saying, how did that happen?

Surely since they were covering up all the harmful side effects or whatever they'd also have covered that up too?

Or was that whole thing just an elaborate double bluff or something?

Won't get an explanation though cause conspiracy theorists have never thought that deeply on their own claims.

shillyshilly

I don't think they grasp the gravity of alluding to a greater conspiracy about getting these vaccines to market (requires some critical thinking though)....

I could see the side of governments being bought to get it to market... difficult enough to do with even lesser know medicines, let alone the most studied vaccine of all time...

But these allusions, also tie in academia, you would literally need to buy off every biological academic in the world who could/would ever step into the realm of studying anything to do with these vaccines...

you are also undermining biological study, because with everyone bought off in the world and "the info" out there, our future academics who are currently or haven't even started studying for their Bachelors, Masters or Ph.D's, will be doing thesis work on now flawed biology....

which then turns into further enhancements to something that was never really there in the first place, with possibly new technologies spawning from this etc...

This notion would fall flat on it's ass in no time.... but hey, everyone is deffo "in on it"

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521064#Comment_118521064

And if the motive of all this is "profit" how are they paying off all of these people and governments and institutions? Especially when a large portion of their profits is coming from those governments and institutions?

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521132#Comment_118521132

Bill Gates