Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314648#Comment_119314648

Again, just more revisionism.

The comments by the commission chief follow reports by German media that incoming chancellor Olaf Scholz favours mandatory vaccinations, an approach taken by neighbouring Austria where the government has said inoculations will be obligatory by February.

To which we can add Macron declaring his wish to "piss off the unvaccinated":

Macron said he wanted to severely limit the ability of unvaccinated people to participate in social life, vowing to make life difficult for them.

"The unvaccinated, I really want to piss them off. And so we're going to continue doing so until the end. That's the strategy," Macron told Le Parisien newspaper in an interview published late Tuesday. 

Throughout last year within the EU, Ireland included, there was a growing acceptance of exerting political and social pressure on, and discrimination against, the unvaccinated. This culminated in a growing enthusiasm for mandatory vaccination.

To now claim that this was just crisis planning to cover all bases and in fact the politicians and the public wanted to ensure freedom of choice on the question of vaccination is utterly absurd.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314702#Comment_119314702

So they should have just let the virus run amok? If they didn’t have plans and the virus turned out to have a much higher death rate, then conspiracy theorists would be crying too. No matter what was done, it would be wrong, and has been wrong in conspiracy theorists eyes.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314702#Comment_119314702

Remember the phrase. "The pandemic of the unvaccinated"

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314722#Comment_119314722

Yep. Sounds pretty discriminatory to me.

Also sounds very foolish now.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314726#Comment_119314726

Yes it is now the complete opposite. It is a pandemic of the vaxxed. With 93% of the adult pop injected we still have 1000 people in hospital with severe Covid all vaxxed to some degree and the virus running rife in the community.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314677#Comment_119314677

I know it's funny how they are ending up being the conspiracy theorists and we're debunking them

The irony huh.

The vaccines didn't work to stop people catching the virus and that's it.

People on their 4th shot are getting covid and ending up in hospital. I wouldn't be bothered really discussing with the conspiracy theorists on the vaccine side. Because they're not seeing that they're peeing in the wind and it's dripping on their shoes..

A lot of folk's on the covid forums are saying that the vaccines are a failure too. So it's clear that the conspiracy theorists here,as in the people who are saying there's no safety concerns about the vaccines are going nowhere and have failed.

And the vaccines are shoite.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314747#Comment_119314747

Dunno about the Covid forum, but you are posting in a thread here about the safety of vaccines without identifying any safety issues. Conspiracy theorists have failed to identify safety issues. That’s why nonsense is being challenged here.

snowcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314747#Comment_119314747

There is 2 lines of reasoning. I think it is fairly accepted at this stage that the vaccines are poor to useless against the modern variants. The dangers of the vaccine are the second line. In reality like most drugs we will not know the results for many years if not generations. mRNA is a novel tech that may or may not be a great pharmaceutical leap.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314594#Comment_119314594

Yes, they discussed various different scenarios. Doesn't mean there was ever any actual plan or desire to do so.

I'm sure that there has been various scenarios discussed regarding nuclear weapons being used in Ukraine by NATO, doesn't mean that they have any plans to actually do so... Just that you run through all possible ideas, no matter how unlikely, so that you can be prepared.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315006#Comment_119315006

There is a difference. The EU announced to the public that they were considering mandatory vaccinations.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315024#Comment_119315024

Indeed. The attempts to bat this away as "nothing to see here" are as revealing as they are ridiculous.

Fighting Tao

It’s all a conspiracy! Maybe start a thread on how planning for every eventuality is a conspiracy seeing you can’t identify safety issues with the vaccine 😛

The whole conversation around crisis/disaster/contingency planning is yet another deflection away from covid vaccine safety.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119312730#Comment_119312730

Secondary School and yes it's on the curriculum ...

Geert Vanden Bossche has done some fantastic work, but he also makes a living on making noise about any new virus treatment...

He has been right before, but has also been wrong on theories and predictions.... as you'll see in the links, they are all opinion pieces.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314377#Comment_119314377

I don't have any other accounts. There is a world outside boards.

Why did they buy too many when originally 2 per adult word have been enough. How many did they order? Some are on their 4 dose and we still have too many.

Fr0g

There is currently a COVID vaccine mandate in the US military

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315450#Comment_119315450

Because when various countries were buying up vaccine doses nobody knew which ones were actually going to be most successful so everyone was ordering up way more than they would possibly need if they all happened to be successful and also produced in big enough quantities.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314137#Comment_119314137

But it's not a study "based on assumptions."

It's a peer reviewed study from a journal you believe is trustworthy.

You haven't even read it. Yet you are trying to claim its a fraudulent study.

What do you call it when some one claims something is true when it's not?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315056#Comment_119315056

Cool.

What's this to do with the safety of the vaccines.

Your fellows who you've been patting on the back there have been claiming that the vaccines have killed at least 40000 people, possibly as many as 100000 or a few million.

Do you agree with this claim?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119314743#Comment_119314743

Well you know, except for:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00320-6/fulltext

Findings

Based on official reported COVID-19 deaths, we estimated that vaccinations prevented 14·4 million (95% credible interval [Crl] 13·7–15·9) deaths from COVID-19 in 185 countries and territories between Dec 8, 2020, and Dec 8, 2021. This estimate rose to 19·8 million (95% Crl 19·1–20·4) deaths from COVID-19 averted when we used excess deaths as an estimate of the true extent of the pandemic, representing a global reduction of 63% in total deaths (19·8 million of 31·4 million) during the first year of COVID-19 vaccination. 

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315535#Comment_119315535

Worldwide? Sure, I certainly think 40k is a plausible number of deaths in which the vaccine is a contributing factor.

excess mortality seems to be off the charts everywhere. It can’t all be down to gardening, climate change and cost of living increases.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315627#Comment_119315627

Ok. So what about the higher numbers that were suggested? Are they also plausible?

What evidence do you have that actually links these supposed deaths to the vaccine? You personally not believing other explanations based on nothing is not a very convincing or rational answer.

Also, could you explain the massive contradiction this leads you guys into.

Why are 40,000 deaths a concern to you when you guys have constantly told us that the millions of deaths caused by covid is not worth worrying about?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315640#Comment_119315640

Yes I think the higher numbers of a 100k or a few million are also plausible. I certainly haven’t seen anything to suggest they are implausible.

I don’t have any evidence other than a belief these numbers are plausible, given the scale of the roll out and the spike in excess mortality. You asked me did I believe these claims, and I am telling you that I think they are credible.

i have neither raised concerns about these deaths whatever their number, nor have I dismissed deaths caused by Covid, whatever their number, as nothing to worry about.

you must be mixing me up with somebody else. Again.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315659#Comment_119315659

Ok. So there's no evidence to support that number. But you believe them anyway.

And if you're not raising concerns about these supposed deaths, what safety issues are you concerned about?

Your fellow conspiracy theorists are indeed dismissing covid deaths and have done so repeatedly in various ways. At the same time they keep raising concerns about deaths caused by the vaccine.

Do you believe that this is a valid position to hold?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315666#Comment_119315666

I have absolutely no problem with the the fact that you don’t appear to wish to debate the comments and claims I do make here. Plenty of others will happily do so.

but you do seem to want to argue other people’s claims with me, and ask me for evidence to support them etc, and then you get annoyed if I don’t engage with you, trying to argue somebody else’s claim?

Why is that? It is very odd behaviour.

if you have no interest in what I post, just ignore me. If you have an interest in what other posters say, take it up with them.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315681#Comment_119315681

I'm not trying to argue other people's claims with you. I'm just highlighting what conspiracy theorists here are actually claiming and the fact you don't believe most of it.

It makes all of the back patting and self congratulation we've seen in the last few pages massively hypocritical.

Also, the fact that you constantly nitpick things about non conspiracy theory claims, but don't say anything about all of the massive and complete lies told by conspiracy theorists is very telling.

You claimed that people are batting away conspiracy theorist's claims as if there's nothing to see.

Yet when you are asked specifically about the specific claims of conspiracy theorists you don't comment, you get offended and upset when people lump your conspiracy claims in with theirs, and you outright pretend the more extreme claims don't exist.

So again, conspiracy theorists are claiming that the 40,000 deaths due to vaccines (Which there's no evidence for) is something to be concerned about. At the same time, they have been telling us that the millions of deaths due to covid are not something to be concerned about.

Do you believe that this is a good position to hold? Or is this something to be batted away as there's nothing to see?

Or are you not going to answer because you're not allowed to disagree with other conspiracy theorists directly?

Also, since you aren't concerned about the deaths caused by the vaccines, what safety issues are you concerned about?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315699#Comment_119315699

40,000 deaths due to the vaccines is not an extreme claim, I would think it is conservative.

how many deaths, if any, do you think the vaccines have caused? Do you have any evidence to support your view?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315705#Comment_119315705

Lol, dodged the questions.

Extreme claims would be ones like the vaccine being secretly part of a depopulation plot or having tracking technology etc. I did not call the claims of 40,000 vaccine caused deaths extreme. Again you are trying to pretend these extreme claims do not exist.

I don't know how many deaths the vaccines have caused precisely. Never claimed to know. I don't think the idea of 40,000 or upwards is very plausible however as something like that would be very noticable and would be reported on. I don't believe any of the claims of a giant global conspiracy to cover it up.

Now, could you go back and answer my questions please?

So again, conspiracy theorists are claiming that the 40,000 deaths due to vaccines (Which there's no evidence for) is something to be concerned about. At the same time, they have been telling us that the millions of deaths due to covid are not something to be concerned about.

Do you believe that this is a good position to hold? Or is this something to be batted away as there's nothing to see?

Or are you not going to answer because you're not allowed to disagree with other conspiracy theorists directly?

Also, since you aren't concerned about the deaths caused by the vaccines, what safety issues are you concerned about?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315717#Comment_119315717

As I have said on numerous occasions I disagree with any claims that the vaccines are part of a depopulation plot or have tracking technology in them. Is that clear enough for you?

I don't know how many deaths the vaccines have caused precisely. Never claimed to know.

We also agree on this. I don’t know, and have never claimed to know. You asked me did I agree with the figure of 40k - I said I thought it plausible. And I hadn’t seen any evidence to suggest it is not plausible.

Neither have you it would appear.

I don't think the idea of 40,000 or upwards is very plausible however as something like that would be very noticable and would be reported on.

As I said huge numbers of unexplained excess mortality have been reported on in numerous jurisdictions. Given the scale of the vaccine roll out I find it plausible that the vaccines are a contributing factor to this.

neither of us has any evidence to support our ideas of what is plausible, so we’ll have to agree to disagree.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315732#Comment_119315732

And dodged my questions again.

Yes, I know that you don't agree with the extreme claims. You don't agree with most of the conspiracy theorists here. However, you are reluctant to say that and often pretend the extreme views don't exist. You often pretend that the less extreme conspiracy theorists don't claim the things they do.

I explained why I believed that figure was most likely not accurate. You ignored that.

If 40,000 people were killed by the vaccine, this would have been noticed and would have been reported on. It hasn't been. So it's not plausible to believe.

This is especially so if the number is higher up to millions of deaths.

Why do you believe that this number has not been reported?

Now, again, for the 3rd time:

So again, conspiracy theorists are claiming that the 40,000 deaths due to vaccines (Which there's no evidence for) is something to be concerned about. At the same time, they have been telling us that the millions of deaths due to covid are not something to be concerned about.

Do you believe that this is a good position to hold? Or is this something to be batted away as there's nothing to see?

Or are you not going to answer because you're not allowed to disagree with other conspiracy theorists directly?

Also, since you aren't concerned about the deaths caused by the vaccines, what safety issues are you concerned about?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119315466#Comment_119315466

So.

One of the least risky things by a long, long way that anyone signing up to the military has to risk.