Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222792#Comment_118222792

Right but you haven't given any valid reasons for your opinion, in fact you are going out of your way to dodge those questions.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222841#Comment_118222841

Whereas you refuse to even state your opinion.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222864#Comment_118222864

Sure I'll do that, if I do, will you provide valid reasons for your view?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222911#Comment_118222911

You must provide a valid explanation and reasoning of your view.

Fighting Tao

Cookie cutter conspiracy theorist. Is there a CT course that everyone attends? It’s all dodge, avoid, deflect, whinge, ignore, …

None of the last few pages has to do with vaccine safety.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222921#Comment_118222921

You believe vaccines should be mandatory, fine, but you can't provide any valid reasons and you've immediately started playing silly games. We get this a lot here. If you are unable to discuss your view or support it properly, there's nothing to discuss.

This thread is about vaccine safety, vaccines are overwhelmingly safe.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222921#Comment_118222921

Mandatory vaccinations can be justified in many cases.

For example if you work in a setting where you come into close contact with people where you have a high chance of spreading the virus or passing it to vulnerable people I think there is an onus on you to do everything you can to prevent that from happening. I think that such settings should require their employees to get vaccines unless they are medically unable to do so.

If these employees don't want to get the vaccine they are free to not work at that place.

Truck drivers are required to wear seat belts and follow the rules of the road. If someone doesn't want to do these things they are free to not be a Truck driver.

No one is being strapped down and forces to have a vaccine, despite your attempts at arguing as such.

The issue is that there isn't really a valid reason for not wanting the vaccine aside from medical reasons.

Can you provide a rational reason?

So far people have only pointed to false claims of dangers and extreme religious nonsense.

Or are you going to keep dodging and running away from the question even though I've answered yours directly and you no longer have an excuse?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222501#Comment_118222501

How do you want to prove they are safe when stage 3 of testing is still ongoing and stage 4 did not even started yet?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223738#Comment_118223738

I believe he said opposite. Maybe you just made a mistake. It happens here quite often.

As for your last sentence - I believe it is a bit premature to address safety mainly when as time progress we see more and more of "side efects" being added to a label. It started with people vehemently opposing any connection of blood clots with current vaccines and few other things since. I guess that when stage 3 will finish (2023-24 depends on which vax we talk about) and stage 4 will be concluded (many years in future) we may have more data to evaluate safety.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224276#Comment_118224276

The opposite to what? the posts are right there for everyone to read

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224276#Comment_118224276

Lol complete and utter lies here as usual.

No one "vehemently opposed" any connection between blood clots and current vaccines.

What "few other things" are you referring to?

Also as a reminder, the reason you started to pretend to ignore me was that you were caught out telling lies about the side effects of vaccines.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224353#Comment_118224353

Calm down and read twice. Then maybe proofread your own post before you post it.

If you want me to hold your hand then here it is: He said he oppose mandatory vaccination then you said "You believe vaccines should be mandatory"

If that isnt mistake on your end then you are trying to claim he said something he did not.

I merely pointed that things like that happens here often. Both of them, mistakes and teisting of what was said. Not to mention the absolute best of the best "I believe you wanted to say this..." or "I think you are saying..."

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224399#Comment_118224399

Indeed I wrote should instead of shouldn't, it's pretty evident what that poster believes.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224424#Comment_118224424

And that is all good. I came from a country where only groupthink and state sanctioned belief was allowed. To say that that country stagnated would be understatement.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117054672#Comment_117054672

And more outright lies.

It doesn't "offer you possibility of having covid infecton milder". It grants immunity.

Studies have shown that the vaccines have and effectiveness of over 90%

I again suspect you, like most conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers don't actually know what vaccines are or how they work.

This being especially ironic given that you claimed the covid vaccines weren't vaccines.

That aged well.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224454#Comment_118224454

Sorry, what point are you trying to make?

Everything I said in that post is still true.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224446#Comment_118224446

Great. This forum is full of group-think by conspiracy theorists who imagine themselves living in a dystopian tyrannical state with cartoon villain type bad guys who are always trying to "control" them or "track" them or whatever.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224474#Comment_118224474

And again, not one conspiracy theorist would dare to challenge another no matter how wrong and ridiculous the stuff their claiming is. Can't disrupt the party line.

And none of them ever comment when other conspiracy theorists get caught out in a lie or using false information. Lies are acceptable when you're defending the party line.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224463#Comment_118224463

It is pretty clear now that the vaccine is not granting immunity.

So everything you said in that post is laughable, particularly since you were directly disputing the claims the vaccine offers you the possibility of a milder infection.

Thats exactly what this vaccine does.

Hence, it’s not a vaccine.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224474#Comment_118224474

If that is your belief so be it. I have also noticed a lot of people who for some reason think they are morally or intellectually superior while their actions say otherwise. Making fun of others or outright hate is a very telling sign too.

And if we are going to start "who is trying to control who" debate then this forum is a prime example of how it is being done.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224446#Comment_118224446

That's a very telling post Patnor, especially given one of the lowest uptake of vaccination here is amongst our eastern european community.

We tend to follow the state sanctioned belief here ,for the simple reason that unlike where you came from they are only in power at the behest of the people, and it is a very tenuous position.

If you think that they are somehow sanctioning a vaccine program knowing something the rest of us don't, i guarantee you are wrong.

There is no evidence whatsoever to counter the fact that vaccination is saving lives, and that it will continue to save way way more than any deaths that could be ever attributed to it.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224491#Comment_118224491

But it does grant immunity. It's been show. to reduce infection rates. Studies have shown that they have between 85% and 95% efficacy https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison.

It's also been shown that in cases where it is not effective, it reduces the chances of severe infection. You're characterising this (dishonestly) as it being just milder. But in reality that means that there is only around 10% as many people who need to be hospitalised.

You and other anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist keep making this silly and dishonest argument that vaccines are an all or nothing thing.

The covid vaccines are as effective as other types of vaccines.

Vaccines don't become not vaccines because conspiracy theorists don't think they work. The covid vaccines are vaccines.

Patnor was claiming that the vaccines were not vaccines because they were "gene therapy".

This is of course another lie.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224508#Comment_118224508

But patnor, your side is the only one lying about stuff. You've been caught out telling lies and keep running away from this fact.

If you're on the right side, why do you do that?

Why are the people on your side claiming that the vaccines are dangerous? Why are they claiming that the vaccines are part of a communist take over plot? Why are they claiming that this is all predicted in the bible and preparation for the coming of the antichrist?

Why do you not challenge any of these claims?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224557#Comment_118224557

That is very hard to say. Current variant while more contagious is far less dangerous than previous variants. Covid saga pretty much follows and do what other viruses tends to. Since there is no way how you or anyone else can prove how situation here would look like with lower vaccine uptake the only way we can use to compare (with a hefty pinch of salt anyway) is to compare current wave with other developed countries with lower vaccine uptake and compare their number of tests and confirmed cases with ours.

Number of deaths is incomparable as we let our most vulnerable perish when we recklessly shipped them off to nursing houses at the start of this. Other countries which did not follow our crazy experiment somehow shielded them but they are and will be exposed this winter. We do not have that many of them left after our nursing houses fiasco.

Talk about eastern european low vaccine uptake is xenophobic and pretty much desperate attempt to shift the blame. Racial and xenophobic arguments were usually the last resort but always working perfectly when there was need to pin blame on someone else.

People do not want to acknowledge simple fact that last single digit percentage of unvaccinated people remaining are mostly people who cant take the vaccine simply from medical reasons like allergy to some of the components and because quite a lot of them are already immune having recovered from covid in the last 20 months.

As for your last statement I will wait till stage 3 and 4 will be completed mainly in regard to poor track record of earlier attempts to create any vaccine for corona viruses and in regard of use of new untested technology with mrna vaccines.

Btw, vaccine effectiveness is actually so poor that it definition had to be changed to reflect that undeniable fact.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224631#Comment_118224631

And a lot of claims of fact in that that you will never back up. Because you are in all likelihood lying again.

Please show that "single digit percentage of unvaccinated people remaining are mostly people who cant take the vaccine simply from medical reasons like allergy to some of the components and because quite a lot of them are already immune having recovered from covid in the last 20 months."

Please show: "vaccine effectiveness is actually so poor that it definition had to be changed to reflect that undeniable fact."

Please show why all of the studies you've been provided that shows the vaccines are both safe and effective are wrong. Please explain why you believe they are all wrong.

Since you most likely will ignore this, it might be best if some one else also ask you to supply your evidence so you don't have an excuse to weasel away from it as usual.

A reminder: twitter and bitchute are not sources.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224631#Comment_118224631

I always wondered what baloney was like when it was mentioned in US TV programmes during the 80’s. I now know from your post.

Playing the racist card when there is no racism is below the belt, and a sign of someone that hasn’t an argument. You don’t like that people who use factual information to counter your baloney and so you resort to saying they are xenophobic.

Also, the one of the main reasons the delta variant is not killing people is due to so many being vaccinated. Imagine that!

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224563#Comment_118224563

Total nonsense. You are dishonestly misrepresenting the impact of these vaccines. That odd looking site you linked to simply talks about the protection against symptomatic illness and severe disease. This is not immunity.

Our own Chief Medical Officer concurs, recognising the shortcomings:

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1425863411389304834

If these so called vaccines granted immunity, Tony Holohan would sing it from the rooftops. But instead he is restricted to lauding the fact they are "about 80% effective at preventing symptomatic Covid 19 disease" and "approximately 95% protection against hospitalisation".

Once again, this is not immunity, and to claim otherwise is simply misinformation.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

Lol. But I'm not misrepresenting them. I gave you the figures.

You are dishonestly conflating "immunity" and "complete 100% prevention of any infection".

What vaccines in your opinion confer immunity to your standards?

Do you disagree with any of the figures you just posted?

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

Why not compare with the effectiveness of the original vaccine, the one where the word vaccine approximately comes from (that's actually from the cowpox that led to the discovery of the smallpox vaccine but that would be for a thread on language instead).

"Smallpox vaccination provides full immunity for 3 to 5 years and decreasing immunity thereafter. If a person is vaccinated again later, immunity lasts even longer. Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated. "

https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7022/#:~:text=Historically%2C%20the%20vaccine%20has%20been,a%20few%20days%20of%20exposure.

Seems that the covid vaccines match up pretty well to me.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222921#Comment_118222921

Do you think this sort of response makes you appear a reasoned and genuine debater?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

how many times have you had a tetanus shot?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224508#Comment_118224508

In my years on this forum I've never come across a user conspiracy or prediction ever turn out to be true, no one else seems to have found one either, which would make it, by definition, a forum full of BS. Which in itself would be more of an accurate observation than an opinion.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

These vaccines don't grant immunity. No one is claiming they do.

partyguinness

I am in England and I have met quite a few through work who will not have a vaccine. Indeed some a personal friends.

All Asian.

One Asian lady is in fact a medical rep and has worked in the medical world for nearly 30 years and she has contracted Covid twice- she point blank refuses to have it. She is highly educated and knows the medical world inside out- she is an ardant anti vaxxer.

Our cleaners who come on a Friday are from Grenada and Ghana- they will not have the vaccine. They are part of God's Squad and God will protect them.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225058#Comment_118225058

I did say immunity.

But that was with the assumption and people understood that this was not an absolute statement. In the same post I give direct numbers that weren't 100%,

Conspiracy theories are nitpicking again cause they can't form an actual point.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225088#Comment_118225088

Yes but you literally explained what you meant in every sentence afterwards. I've used the word immunity before as well, but some people just seize on it like you automatically mean "lifelong" immunity despite all the context provided.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225098#Comment_118225098

And of course all the false claims, lies and batshit from conspiracy theorists don't warrant a comment.

Like Patnor was claiming that the vaccines weren't vaccines but rather gene therapy. Wonder why @schmittel didn't have an issue with that.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225058#Comment_118225058

King Mob most certainly is.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225303#Comment_118225303

Lol Did you not read the last three posts?

Any chance you'll be answering my questions do you? If not, would you mind explaining why you're not?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225303#Comment_118225303

Did you read anything beyond the word immunity or any of the last posts in this thread?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225336#Comment_118225336

Sure I read them. You provided figures claiming that vaccines were 85-95% effective in preventing symptomatic disease and sever e infection, but that is not immunity.

I never posted anything about immunity meaning 100% immunity for life, as far as I am aware no vaccine claims that.

Are you saying immunity means preventing symptomatic disease and severe infection?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225361#Comment_118225361

https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2021-06/Duration-of%20protective-immunity-evidence-summary.pdf

read this and get educated

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225361#Comment_118225361

You clearly didn't read them if you continue to think the poster means lifelong immunity.

Dohnjoe

Jesus christ you really need to word lawyer up on this forum.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225361#Comment_118225361

Sorry, you've dodged my questions. Why?

Could you answer them now please:

Which vaccines grant people immunity to the respective diseases?

Do you agree that the numbers I quoted at you are accurate?

And if you're saying that no vaccine grants immunity, and since you claimed in a previous post that if it doesn't confer immunity, then it's not a vaccine.

So therefore you seem to be claiming that vaccines don't exist, which is a pretty new one for these parts...

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225437#Comment_118225437

Only if you dare to question the conspiracy theories though.

Conspiracy theorists are free to misuse terms and claim things that are entirely wrong and these things are excused.

Again, Patnor claimed the vaccines weren't vaccines and that they were gene therapy. Among a great many other claims. Not a peep from Schmittel. Why not I wonder...

oisinog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224631#Comment_118224631

The first mRNA testing on Human cells was done 20 years ago so this is not new or untested technology, this was being tested as a vaccine against Cancer in 2008. DARPA was also conducting research into it for denfence against Pandemics.

The first Human Clinical trials were in 2013 on the Rabies virus and as I understand there was already research being conducted as using mRna for a flu vaccine which is why tthe companies were able to move so quickly to develop the covid vaccine.

But sure facts its a new Technology!

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225946#Comment_118225946

Same technology being investigated with a clinical trial at the end of 2022 for Malaria. Imagine controlling that scourge, be a game changer. Have a friend who contracted it while in the Army decades ago at this point and he's still impacted by it. Nasty stuff.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/biontech-aims-develop-mrna-based-malaria-vaccine-2021-07-26/

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225946#Comment_118225946

mRNA advancements are incredible, it possibly opens the door to cancer treatments in the future

Unfortunately certain people see "RNA" and it looks like "DNA", ergo, "they are messing with our DNA! Our genes!". Literally, that's it, and now there's an entire online quackology movement making money off stupid people who think this is experimental gene whatever.

King Mob

The only reason conspiracy theories and anti vaxxers here are claiming this technology is new is because that's what they've been told by the grifters they follow.

They don't read scientific papers. The haven't a notion about what testing standards are required. Half of them don't even know what vaccines are or how they work. They can just parrot what they're told by folks on twitter and bitchute and pretend to know what they're talking about.

When they're challenged they do what we see here: ignore, dodge, whinge, run away and lie.