Display of discs in car windscreen.....

Bikerman2019

Background. A car insurance policy covers a person to drive their own car with comprehensive cover. Broker says the driver is insured to drive any other car as long as it is not owned by this driver. "The second car does not need to be insured." This seems to be confirmed by the policy booklet.



H. Driving of other cars included
No. 1 “Indemnity to the Insured” of Section 1: “Liability to Third Parties” is extended to include indemnity to the Insured while personally driving any private motor car provided such vehicle:(i) Does not belong to the Insured.(ii) Is not hired or leased to the Insured under a Hire Purchase or Leasing Agreement.(iii) Is not the property of or in the custody of any Company or Firm of which the Insured is a Member, Director or Employee.(iv) Is not the property of or in the custody or control of a Motor Trade Business of which the Insured is a Member, Director or Employee

So question is, second car was a gift for a daughter for her birthday and is registered in her name with valid NCT and Tax, but not on road yet as her theory test is pending along with subsequent licence. (Subject of another thread here, venues to learn to drive while no licence due to theory test cancelled 5 times)

Is it permitted to photocopy the insurance disk and put it in the window of the second car as it is getting damaged taking it out and putting it in again whenever second car is taken out?


Cheers

ELM327

You can't display a disc with a different reg number in the window. That is illegal.

If driving on third party extension it is advisable that you carry the full insurance document with you.

coylemj

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Broker says the driver is insured to drive any other car as long as it is not owned by this driver. "The second car does not need to be insured." This seems to be confirmed by the policy booklet.

As long as your policy is not from Aviva or Liberty, that is correct.

There still is an urban myth (it gets repeated here and in the Insurance forum) which holds that the car you borrow must always have it's own policy before your own 'driving other cars' cover applies. And there have been reported instances of Gardai at checkpoints who think that it's a universal rule. It's not.

No disc on the windsceeen is taken to mean that there is no policy in force for that car, therefore (they think) nobody can be insured to drive it. So always carry your own cert. and be prepared to (politely) slug it out on the roadside.

Get Real

coylemj wrote: »

As long as your policy is not from Aviva or Liberty, that is correct.

There still is an urban myth (it gets repeated here and in the Insurance forum) which holds that the car you borrow must always have it's own policy before your own 'driving other cars' cover applies. And there have been reported instances of Gardai at checkpoints who think that it's a universal rule. It's not.

No disc on the windsceeen is taken to mean that there is no policy in force for that car, therefore (they think) nobody can be insured to drive it. So always carry your own cert. and be prepared to (politely) slug it out on the roadside.

How does this work if failing to display an insurance disk is an offence in its own right?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html#:~:text=Failure%20to%20display%20an%20insurance,for%20up%20to%206%20months.

Genuinely curious. Even if you are insured, it's an offence not to display an insurance disk, 60 euro fine. Interesting.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

No disc on the windsceeen is taken to mean that there is no policy in force for that car, therefore (they think) nobody can be insured to drive it. So always carry your own cert. and be prepared to (politely) slug it out on the roadside.

Non Display of an Insurance Disc apparently carries a fixed charge of €60 (rising to €90 after 28 days) - it's not a penalty point offence though.

cml387

So you are using your insurance with her as named driver on a second car which she owns?
Not too sure about that.

coylemj

Get Real wrote: »

How does this work if failing to display an insurance disk is an offence in its own right?

.....

Genuinely curious. Even if you are insured, it's an offence not to display an insurance disk, 60 euro fine. Interesting.

There appears to be a 'grace period' of 10 days after you take out the policy (see below) but it probably wouldn't apply here as the OP hasn't mentioned any policy on the car in question.....

5. (1) When a vehicle is used in a public place the insurance disc for the vehicle shall be carried on the vehicle at all times after the expiry of 10 days from the date of authentication of the certificate of insurance.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1984/si/355/made/en/print

Atlantic Dawn

Is it an offence to display an insurance disc from a car with a different registration number? Surely it's the policy number and insurance certificate that show the actual coverage of the policy and the policy number is displayed for anyone to record or question.

ELM327

Get Real wrote: »

How does this work if failing to display an insurance disk is an offence in its own right?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html#:~:text=Failure%20to%20display%20an%20insurance,for%20up%20to%206%20months.

Genuinely curious. Even if you are insured, it's an offence not to display an insurance disk, 60 euro fine. Interesting.

That is also an offence and you can be penalized for it.

jimmycrackcorm

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Is it permitted to photocopy the insurance disk and put it in the window of the second car as it is getting damaged taking it out and putting it in again whenever second car is taken out?


Cheers

This is specifically prohibited in the statute.

not shall any person exhibit any colourable imitation of any insurance disc or any insurance disc which has been issued in respect of another vehicle

cml387

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This is specifically prohibited in the statute.

not shall any person exhibit any colourable imitation of any insurance disc or any insurance disc which has been issued in respect of another vehicle

I think the bigger problem, if I understand the OP correctly, is that his daughter is driving an uninsured car.

Atlantic Dawn

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This is specifically prohibited in the statute.

not shall any person exhibit any colourable imitation of any insurance disc or any insurance disc which has been issued in respect of another vehicle

It's an interesting one, this would imply that any discs a user prints out themselves are not legit in the full legal sense as no 'original disc' could be defined or proven. A lot of insurers now only send a PDF copy of disc and expect policyholder to print out.

coylemj

My view would be that as long as you can convince a Garda at a checkpoint that you are insured to drive that car, in most cases you won't get any hassle about the disc.

But you definitely do not want to park the car on a public street because you risk getting a ticket for non-display.

ELM327

cml387 wrote: »

I think the bigger problem, if I understand the OP correctly, is that his daughter is driving an uninsured car.

His daughter is not driving anything.
He is driving the car with his third party extension until she gets a license and insurance in her own name was my reading

coylemj

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's an interesting one, this would imply that any discs a user prints out themselves are not legit in the full legal sense as no 'original disc' could be defined or proven. A lot of insurers now only send a PDF copy of disc and expect policyholder to print out.

That may be why Axa only allow you to download the disc PDF file once. That way they (and I) can claim that when I print it off at home, it's an 'original'.

cml387

ELM327 wrote: »

His daughter is not driving anything.
He is driving the car with his third party extension until she gets a license and insurance in her own name was my reading

Ah OK.

ELM327

Sure that's rubbish, you can forward the email, print screenshots etc.

cml387

coylemj wrote: »

That may be why Axa only allow you to download the disc PDF file once. That way they (and I) can claim that when I print it off at home, it's an 'original'.

I would guess it's more likely to gouge you for the cost of a replacement.
123 just sent me a PDF which I could print off as much as I like. On a colour printer though. So I used the work one. Ahem.

partyguinness

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Is it an offence to display an insurance disc from a car with a different registration number? Surely it's the policy number and insurance certificate that show the actual coverage of the policy and the policy number is displayed for anyone to record or question.

But why would you want to do that expect maybe to give a false impression that the car is insured at a quick glance?

MacDanger

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This is specifically prohibited in the statute.

not shall any person exhibit any colourable imitation of any insurance disc or any insurance disc which has been issued in respect of another vehicle

Would a black & white copy of the insurance disc be okay?

partyguinness

In England 5-6 years ago, they did away with displaying tax cert on windscreen. Never had to disply insurance cert.

ELM327

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Is it an offence to display an insurance disc from a car with a different registration number? Surely it's the policy number and insurance certificate that show the actual coverage of the policy and the policy number is displayed for anyone to record or question.

Yes

cml387

MacDanger wrote: »

Would a black & white copy of the insurance disc be okay?

No, it needs to be in colour. Well, green.

Claw Hammer

partyguinness wrote: »

In England 5-6 years ago, they did away with displaying tax cert on windscreen. Never had to disply insurance cert.

This is not England. We left the UK in 1922.

jimmycrackcorm

MacDanger wrote:

Would a black & white copy of the insurance disc be okay?

It's still colourable. But the green band is a requirement

partyguinness

Claw Hammer wrote: »

This is not England. We left the UK in 1922.

Yes I know thank you. I just making a general observation. Not fully left...

Claw Hammer

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes I know thank you. I just making a general observation. Not fully left...

Just because they do or don't do something doesn't mean it happens here or has any relevance whatsoever in this jurisdiction.

3DataModem

To summarise for the OP in case it isn't clear:

- There is no reason to copy the disc. Or put your disc in your daughters car. Both of these things might put off a casual glance, but are both offences in their own right. Non-display of disc is also an offence, but arguably a lesser offence (depending on whether a guard wants to do you for if he realises you are using a "fraudulent" disc in your daughter's car).

- Check your policy carefully. Some insurers require the "other car" to be insured, some require it to not be owned by a member of your household, some require it to not be owned by a member of your family.

- Bring proof of YOUR insurance and proof of YOUR DAUGHTERS ownership of the car with you when driving her car, most guards will be grand with that.

Turbohymac

Regardless of type of disc ..be it tax.insurance. or nct a photocopy certainly wouldn't be legal on any windscreen..possibly carry insurance policy with you that stipulate you are indeed insured to drive any other car with the owners consent..
Also it would possibly be only third party cover..

square ball

The insurance certificate should be sufficient as proof of insurance when driving the car. Leave that on the dash. I know it says disc is required but the disc only gives the policy number and expiry date for the vehicle.

I can't see how you can get a fine for not displaying a disc if you are displaying a certificate which is a more comprehensive document. The statute really needs to be amended, but I'd imagine it will all be done electronically before long.

partyguinness

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Just because they do or don't do something doesn't mean it happens here or has any relevance whatsoever in this jurisdiction.

Sticking pieces of paper to the inside of your car is a bit primative in this day and age. It's only a matter of time before it is done in Ireland anyway.


As I said it is just a general observation. Harmless enough. Don't get too hung up on it.