Relationship issues

dylanchloe

Hi,
Just looking for a little bit of advice please.
First off, my husband is a good person, but can be so thoughtless and a bit selfish.
We're both working from home since the start of lockdown, we're lucky that it's just the 2 of us in the house so we have the space to work in separate rooms.
My issue is, even though I know he's very busy at work, I know this probably sounds very petty to some, but all the housework is falling to me. We're both working long full time hours but I am doing 99% of things in the house and I'm really starting to resent him.
For example, I had a zoom meeting last night, the kitchen was a mess after dinner he went to the other room playing games on his phone and was in bed by the time my meeting finished. He leaves all his dishes etc in the sink as it doesn't occur to him to check the dishwasher. I find myself trying to find ways to nicely ask him to do things as I am sick of hearing myself nag and I certainly know it's driving him mad.
I'm thinking of doing up some sort of chore chart or cleaning calendar but don't know where to start.
If anyone can give me some advise on this I'd be really grateful, I don't want this to affect our relationship more than it already does.

Wanderer78

First of all, you're right, it's his bloody house to, so he needs to also work to maintain it, and clean up after himself, you're not his maid or mammy. I'm sure working from home is stressful, but there's no need for him to treat you as so, it's ignorant and disrespectful

YellowLead

You need to have a proper big picture conversation about it with him.

Have you told him that you are doing all of the housework and it’s not fair?

Daily ‘nagging’ as you say doesn’t usually work and breeds continued arguments, though it sounds like you don’t do that often if you are being ‘nice’ about how you say it. Some people need things spelled out. He’s either highly ignorant or highly selfish.

Why not agree on a shared routine? Some people split this by set days, others by specific chores - eg. You cook and he shops and cleans up after, you wash he irons etc.

If he won’t agree to it then he’s disrespectful and using you to be honest.

I know you said you didn’t want this to affect your relationship even more but it will continue like this forever unless you sort it. If he won’t play ball then do you really want to be married to somebody who has no respect for you? Don’t be so blinded by love that you let somebody walk all over you.

markmoto

dylanchloe wrote: »

If anyone can give me some advise on this I'd be really grateful, I don't want this to affect our relationship more than it already does.

I would suggest to leave him alone, if you value relationship, leave him alone.
Do it your self, men less organize you would just annoy and stress him out. When he gets older he might just start do that without even being asked.

Timberrrrrrrr

markmoto wrote: »

I would suggest to leave him alone, if you value relationship, leave him alone.
Do it your self, men less organize you would just annoy and stress him out. When he gets older he might just start do that without even being asked.

Are you serious? Why should one person have to clean up all the time if the other is making a mess too?

Op you need to sit down with your partner and have an adult conversation about this, no dropping hints or beating around the Bush. Just explain that it's not fair on you to have to do it all and either suggest a chore chart or maybe alternate days where one person does the chores around the house.

markmoto

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you serious? Why should one person have to clean up all the time if the other is making a mess too?

well don't cry when he finds date after you constantly stress him out. If that's really bother you try to find non invasive way, never ever have any sort of "adult conversations".

dylanchloe

Thanks everyone for your advice.
I think i will sit him down later when I've calmed down a bit, I cleaned the kitchen this morning before work, it took half an hour which really maddened me, he could have done that last night and we could have spent time together.
I'm also doing all the shopping, trips to bottle banks, emptying rubbish so it's probably partly my fault for not putting my foot down sooner.

qwerty13

It doesn’t have to ‘occur to him’ to check the dishwasher because he doesn’t have to, because you keep letting him behave like this. And quite possibly because he was raised that way.

I’m betting this behaviour did not start during lockdown either - it is just magnified now as you’re in the same environment 24/7.

Stop tiptoeing around him. You need to have a cards on the table conversation about this - and you do need to make sure that you are taking into account chores that he does, if any. He needs to understand that it’s not you nagging/overreacting to him leaving his dishes in the sink last night - it’s the cumulative effect of him not pulling his weight, and that it makes your life harder, and is extremely disrespectful to you.

dylanchloe

markmoto wrote: »

well don't cry when he finds date after you constantly annoy and stress him out. If that's really bother you try to find non invasive way, never ever have any sort of "adult conversations".

Believe me, there is plenty I could nag him about but I keep quiet. If you saw how much work needs to be done here you'd have a different opinion. No one likes to live in a pig sty and I certainly don't enjoy begging him to do something around the house.
Just to be clear, we are both working full time in stressful jobs.
He also benefits by having a tidier home, having a full fridge, food in presses etc. I don't nag him for fun or enjoyment. I wrote this post in the hope that someone might share how they split housework etc and I could get ideas from that which would reduce arguments or hassle in our home and leave us time together

markmoto

dylanchloe wrote: »

I wrote this post in the hope that someone might share how they split housework etc and I could get ideas from that which would reduce arguments or hassle in our home and leave us time together

You do housework your self and invite him on a voluntary basis.
If he wont come up so do it your self and grow old together.

Tork

markmoto wrote: »

You do housework your self and invite him on a voluntary basis.
If he wont come up so do it your self and grow old together.

Mark, let me guess. You're not Irish and you come from a culture where women do all the housework?

Jequ0n

What sort of a relationship do you have if you can’t discuss basics such as shared housework without it becoming an issue?

There is nothing more annoying than someone nagging, making passive aggressive little digs and hoping you’ll get the gist.

Can you not simply point out that it annoys you that he does as good as nothing and see what sort of plan you can set up TOGETHER instead of you creating a rota or whatever?

Also, how messy could a house be with only 2 people in it?

SusanC10

OP - sit down together when you are not angry and tell him how you feel about splitting household chores.

Could you get a Cleaner in once a week for the bigger jobs ? And then agree on who does what for day-to-day stuff ?

When both my Husband and I worked full-time (pre-Kids) that is what we did and it worked for us.

markmoto

Tork wrote: »

Mark, let me guess. You're not Irish and you come from a culture where women do all the housework?

I am sharing Men mindset. If you continue to create that issue you might end up with broken hearth.
Perhaps find other way to deal with but don't sit face to face and have "adult conversation"

Jequ0n

markmoto wrote: »

I am sharing Men mindset. If you continue to create that issue you might end up with broken hearth.
Perhaps find other way to deal with but don't sit face to face and have "adult conversation"

Well good news is that you can replace a broken hearth easily if both partners work full time

markmoto

Jequ0n wrote: »

Well good news is that you can replace a broken hearth easily if both partners work full time

See we already argue you are supposed to be little more submissive that's what attracts men the most.

shesty

Mod Note:

Markmoto, do not post in this thread again.


S

HildaOgdenx

I'm guessing that this has always been the case, just that it's more noticeable with working from home. I suppose the bottom line is, why would one adult sharing a home, expect that the other cleans and tidied up after them?

Yes, a conversation has to happen, and please drop the word nag out of your vocabulary. Of course he doesn't like it, why would he, when it means you are saying he needs to pull his weight around the house.

Dividing up chores, as you have suggested, is a good idea. He should be drawing up the list with you. You are not his mother. And watch out for things like jobs being badly done, so that you automatically start to do them again.

Or indeed 'it doesn't occur to him' - how does he think dishes usually get into and out of the dishwasher, for example.

Fair division is the way to go, and that does not mean vague 'he does the bins and the DIY' while the washing, cooking, cleaning and shopping remain your responsibility.

TheadoreT

I always find when women are complaining about these issues its a good sign for a man. Sounds like he has the upper hand in the relationship as you're almost fearful of broaching the subject as you "don't want it to affect your relationship"

You read countless threads from men in sexless relationships and they always read the same, men being overly amenable, "I do more of than fair share of cooking housework ect...."

None of the above is in any way helpful to you OP but maybe don't dismiss how him not being easily controlled or persuaded to do his fair share has on your attraction level for him. Psychology behind these things is often very counter intuitive and difficult to articulate and not to be overly dismissive but if these are your biggest complaints maybe the relationship is in a pretty good place.

Jequ0n

TheadoreT wrote: »

I always find when women are complaining about these issues its a good sign for a man. Sounds like he has the upper hand in the relationship as you're almost fearful of broaching the subject as you "don't want it to affect your relationship"

You read countless threads from men in sexless relationships and they always read the same, men being overly amenable, "I do more of than fair share of cooking housework ect...."

None of the above is in any way helpful to you OP but maybe don't dismiss how him not being easily controlled or persuaded to do his fair share has on your attraction level for him. Psychology behind these things is often very counter intuitive and difficult to articulate and not to be overly dismissive but if these are your biggest complaints maybe the relationship is in a pretty good place.

The OP is annoyed about the uneven workload so I doubt this sentiment is helpful for the general relationship.

qwerty13

TheadoreT wrote: »

I always find when women are complaining about these issues its a good sign for a man. Sounds like he has the upper hand in the relationship as you're almost fearful of broaching the subject as you "don't want it to affect your relationship"

You read countless threads from men in sexless relationships and they always read the same, men being overly amenable, "I do more of than fair share of cooking housework ect...."

None of the above is in any way helpful to you OP but maybe don't dismiss how him not being easily controlled or persuaded to do his fair share has on your attraction level for him. Psychology behind these things is often very counter intuitive and difficult to articulate and not to be overly dismissive but if these are your biggest complaints maybe the relationship is in a pretty good place.

For goodness sake! She’s not asking him to wear a tea cosy on his lad, and marigolds on the boys! She’s just looking for him to be fair, and stop being a selfish entitled twit, who appears think that wife = mammy.

karlitob

dylanchloe wrote: »

Hi,
Just looking for a little bit of advice please.
First off, my husband is a good person, but can be so thoughtless and a bit selfish.
We're both working from home since the start of lockdown, we're lucky that it's just the 2 of us in the house so we have the space to work in separate rooms.
My issue is, even though I know he's very busy at work, I know this probably sounds very petty to some, but all the housework is falling to me. We're both working long full time hours but I am doing 99% of things in the house and I'm really starting to resent him.
For example, I had a zoom meeting last night, the kitchen was a mess after dinner he went to the other room playing games on his phone and was in bed by the time my meeting finished. He leaves all his dishes etc in the sink as it doesn't occur to him to check the dishwasher. I find myself trying to find ways to nicely ask him to do things as I am sick of hearing myself nag and I certainly know it's driving him mad.
I'm thinking of doing up some sort of chore chart or cleaning calendar but don't know where to start.
If anyone can give me some advise on this I'd be really grateful, I don't want this to affect our relationship more than it already does.

If he’s gonna act like a child, then treat him like a child.
Sit down, explain how you feel and why, how it affects you, and what you would like to see change. Ask him his view then or give him time to take on board.

Then an agreed list of jobs to be done AND when, perhaps on a rotating basis. Don’t forgot the outside work and DIY that lads tend to do.

If he doesn’t keep to his side of the bargain, then call it out. Like all contracts, you need some form of threat. The silent treatment and ding ding can be very persuasive for lads.

I would just say to not expect a sea change immediately and never see it slip. Remember, children need boundaries, structures and clear expectations of them with some form of punishment if they don’t stick to the rules.

But in all fairness, how crap it is to feel so bad about something so petty due to inconsideration. I’m sure if he becomes more aware he’ll not want to upset you.

I blame the mothers.

TheadoreT

qwerty13 wrote: »

For goodness sake! She’s not asking him to wear a tea cosy on his lad, and marigolds on the boys! She’s just looking for him to be fair, and stop being a selfish entitled twit, who appears think that wife = mammy.

I'm not saying he's in any way in the right, but relationship dynamics are complicated and him not being easily dissuaded to whatever her definition of clean is isn't the worst thing for him. May cause minor eye rolls from her day to day but imo will stand to him overall.

karlitob

TheadoreT wrote: »

I always find when women are complaining about these issues its a good sign for a man. Sounds like he has the upper hand in the relationship as you're almost fearful of broaching the subject as you "don't want it to affect your relationship"

You read countless threads from men in sexless relationships and they always read the same, men being overly amenable, "I do more of than fair share of cooking housework ect...."

None of the above is in any way helpful to you OP but maybe don't dismiss how him not being easily controlled or persuaded to do his fair share has on your attraction level for him. Psychology behind these things is often very counter intuitive and difficult to articulate and not to be overly dismissive but if these are your biggest complaints maybe the relationship is in a pretty good place.

An interesting point of view on life. It does take all sorts to make this world go round.

Jequ0n

karlitob wrote: »

The silent treatment and ding ding can be very persuasive for lads.

Interesting! You don’t often hear manipulation and potential abuse techniques being recommended in the forum.

YellowLead

TheadoreT wrote: »

I'm not saying he's in any way in the right, but relationship dynamics are complicated and him not being easily dissuaded to whatever her definition of clean is isn't the worst thing for him. May cause minor eye rolls from her day to day but imo will stand to him overall.

It is true that some people have different definitions of ‘clean’ . Some people are OCD neat and tidy and others have a higher tolerance for mess. Some people are happy leaving dishes in the sink until the end of the day, some will wash as they go (though in this case there is a dishwasher so irrelevant).

It doesn’t sound like OP is being overly pernickety here, she just wants him to take on half of the housework as he should because they both work.

OP if it is the case that he does do things, just not as quickly as you like so you end up doing them, then that is a slightly different issue than him expecting you to do everything.

karlitob

Jequ0n wrote: »

Interesting! You don’t often hear manipulation and potential abuse techniques being recommended in the forum.

Agreed but you do hear of plenty of people who wish to ignore the real world and how humans actually behave.

Are people often verbose and amorous when ones partner does something that continues to make them feel undermined and undervalued?

“Thanks for making me feel like **** and not valuing me or my feelings - especially after we had a chat about it, and you agreed to make changes and didn’t follow through - do you feel like a chat and a bang? Not only am I up for it but you deserve it.”

Timberrrrrrrr

markmoto wrote: »

I am sharing Men mindset. If you continue to create that issue you might end up with broken hearth.
Perhaps find other way to deal with but don't sit face to face and have "adult conversation"

Absolute tosh

Batgurl

Best house-sharing/relationship advice I ever received is to build the cost of a cleaner into the fixed bills of a house.

Honestly, the cost of hiring a cleaner for a couple of hours every week or every second week is *nothing* compared to the pressure it relieves on a couple or housemates who have different interpretations of what clean means.

OP - tell your partner you are not happy with the chore/workload balance and you will be hiring a cleaner.
Pay 50/50 so there’s no complaining that it’s not equal, and then channel your extra time into something fun for yourself.

Hannibal_Smith

I wrote this post in the hope that someone might share how they split housework etc and I could get ideas from that which would reduce arguments or hassle in our home and leave us time together

One simple thing we do is, if one person makes the dinner, the other person cleans up straight after. If you're the type that uses every pot and pan, don't take the mick - you can clean some things up as you go.

When we were both working full time - regarding all the other stuff, whoever did the chore last time, it's the other person's turn next time.

Though if you're both working full time in stressful jobs, I'd get a cleaner. Plenty of people do it and if you're working hard 5 days (or whatever) a week, spending hours in the evening or losing a day at the weekend to cleaning is a hassle you can write off.

dylanchloe

Thanks for the advice everyone.
I'm going to talk to him this evening after work.
To be honest this isn't the first time we've been here but I never discussed a set plans of jobs seriously so hopefully we'll come up with something.
Just to be clear, I'm not ocd about cleaning or any thing like that. To be fair to him, he does his own washing, always has and always will and occasionally he'll put on a wash of towels etc.
We had decided to get a cleaner but then lockdown happened last year and neither of us felt comfortable letting someone in when we have sick and vulnerable family members but I do intend to get someone when ever things get back to normal.
Thanks for listening, it's been great to just het this off my chest

ElizaBennett

Good luck with the talk. I'd recommend doing out a list of the main chores - he probably genuinely has no concept of exactly what you're getting done each day, especially if you're doing it quietly and uncomplainingly most of the time. It might concentrate the mind (for both of you) to see just how many different jobs there are daily / weekly etc. Harder for him to argue if he sees it all in writing - but do make sure to list the things her does do, especially if you never do them. He might well have an unbalanced view of what weight each task carries. It's tricky to compromise when one person thinks the other's standards are too high and they're too fussy about detail. As others have suggested, it might be time for a cleaner if he's just not going to agree on standards. God only knows what my house would look like if my partner was left alone for a month - i shudder to think as I saw his place when I met him. But if you respect each other and have a calm discussion about it then I'm sure some sort of compromise can be reached.

Xterminator

some wise advise above from ElizaBennett.

+1 to keeping a list of chores performed by both and just sitting down and showing him your list, comparing notes, and asking him if he thinks the share is fair, and he is pulling his weight.

qwerty13

You could get your groceries delivered, instead of either of you having to go to the supermarket.

The ‘one cooks and the other cleans up’ is something that many people seem to use.

You might consider each being responsible for certain rooms. Very obvious very quickly then as to who is or isn’t pulling their weight.

I wouldn’t be comfortable with a cleaner just yet either, but sounds like a very good idea for the future.

Good luck with your chat

osarusan

ElizaBennett wrote: »

Good luck with the talk. I'd recommend doing out a list of the main chores - he probably genuinely has no concept of exactly what you're getting done each day, especially if you're doing it quietly and uncomplainingly most of the time. It might concentrate the mind (for both of you) to see just how many different jobs there are daily / weekly etc. Harder for him to argue if he sees it all in writing - but do make sure to list the things her does do, especially if you never do them. He might well have an unbalanced view of what weight each task carries. It's tricky to compromise when one person thinks the other's standards are too high and they're too fussy about detail. As others have suggested, it might be time for a cleaner if he's just not going to agree on standards. God only knows what my house would look like if my partner was left alone for a month - i shudder to think as I saw his place when I met him. But if you respect each other and have a calm discussion about it then I'm sure some sort of compromise can be reached.

Agree with this, and (if it's not already too late) try to take a 'lets sort this out together' approach rather than a 'stop being a lazy bastard' approach (even if that's exactly how you feel).

TheBoyConor

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Absolute tosh

What an total and complete sausage.

WertdeerSC

Some people (not necessarily your partner) are just lazy, it's how they are wired and no amount of conversation will change it for longer than a few token weeks if you are lucky. I'm male, mid thirties, WFH. I do the food shopping two evenings a week. I've always cooked all the dinners (I just really don't mind cooking and I'm better at it, ha), in the week I hoover, bleach toilets, take bins out, put washing on, hang washing up, clear away after dinner, even bake bread (kind of cheat as it's using a bread maker!), prep food for the slow cooker after 9pm once a week after other jobs are done as it does two dinners for us, then I can just pour it in in the morning and flick a switch. Admittedly I do more lately as she's exhausted with a newborn baby, before, chores would be split, but I would always, always feel like I wanted to look after both of us and our home (and now our children). And no, I don't need to be cajoled or even asked or reminded to do these things, I'm aware of what needs to be done and I just get stuck in.

dylanchloe

Thanks everyone for all your advice and for listening to me vent.
We spoke this evening, I made sure to make it clear I wasn't trying to play a blame game and acknowledged what he does do.
Then I listed out all I've done and what pushed me over the edge this week, he acknowledged that I'm doing far more than him which was great to hear. He blames work but is going to make an effort. We're going to sit down one of the evenings and do up a list of things that need to be done daily, weekly, monthly etc so that we both know what is expected and where we stand. Please God this will work out. He said I should have spoken to him about it, to be fair when I do get that annoyed I bite my tongue cos I don't want to lose it and make things worse so I'm going to work on my communication skills - or lack of 🀔 just a relief to be dealing with it. X

dylanchloe

WertdeerSC wrote: »

Some people (not necessarily your partner) are just lazy, it's how they are wired and no amount of conversation will change it for longer than a few token weeks if you are lucky. I'm male, mid thirties, WFH. I do the food shopping two evenings a week. I've always cooked all the dinners (I just really don't mind cooking and I'm better at it, ha), in the week I hoover, bleach toilets, take bins out, put washing on, hang washing up, clear away after dinner, even bake bread (kind of cheat as it's using a bread maker!), prep food for the slow cooker after 9pm once a week after other jobs are done as it does two dinners for us, then I can just pour it in in the morning and flick a switch. Admittedly I do more lately as she's exhausted with a newborn baby, before, chores would be split, but I would always, always feel like I wanted to look after both of us and our home (and now our children). And no, I don't need to be cajoled or even asked or reminded to do these things, I'm aware of what needs to be done and I just get stuck in.

It sounds like ye have a great partnership, congratulations to you both on your baby

qwerty13

@OP: That sounds really positive - good for you in speaking up, as I can see that it wasn’t easy for you. I think you approached it perfectly re not doing a blame game, and that can’t have been easy, when I could feel your frustration from your original post.

He does have a fair point on telling him sooner. I’d be a bit like you myself, in that I like to think about things before I respond, and I hate conflict. I still think he was happy being on easy street, being lazy. But good for him in acknowledging that he could do more.

It sounds like things will be ok as long you both live up to your end of it: he takes on his fair share and sticks to it, and you communicate things you’re unhappy about before they get close to crisis point. That’s a good outcome in my book.

I’d suggest not tackling it this weekend - or least not on Friday or Saturday. Try to have a nice relaxed night or two together, then maybe sit down together to do up your list on Sunday afternoon

Neyite

Good stuff OP, glad you had a constructive chat and a plan of action. That's usually the hardest part of the battle.

HildaOgdenx

dylanchloe wrote: »

He said I should have spoken to him about it, to be fair when I do get that annoyed I bite my tongue cos I don't want to lose it and make things worse so I'm going to work on my communication skills - or lack of �� just a relief to be dealing with it. X

Well done, OP. Sounds like a good plan.

It's always good to recognise something like that in yourself, I find.

And he can work on his communication skills too.

It's easy for him to say 'you should have said something.' You really shouldn't have to point out something like e.g. in your opening post, him going off to bed leaving a mess, knowing that you were still caught up on a work call, is an annoying, inconsiderate thing to do.

All the best, it sounds like a good way forward.

dylanchloe

Hi,
I was rereading the advice in the thread and wanted to say thanks and give a quick update.
We sat down and chatted about where we were going wrong. He has made a huge effort to be fair. We both talked about doing some sort of chore chart type of thing but didn't really know where to start so I cut back on doing things and he started to do a bit more. While there is a bit of laziness (on both our parts) I actually think he's quite blind to what has to be done, especially the little jobs that have to be done regularly. So it started with him asking what he should do, I'd make suggestions for him for when he had time, like sweep the hall etc, random things I always did. And he's really helped.
And he's acknowledging what is done in the house, which is also nice to hear.
We're far from organised but it's already made such a difference to me

LilacNails

Love a good aul positive update

jarvis

dylanchloe wrote: »

Hi,
I was rereading the advice in the thread and wanted to say thanks and give a quick update.
We sat down and chatted about where we were going wrong. He has made a huge effort to be fair. We both talked about doing some sort of chore chart type of thing but didn't really know where to start so I cut back on doing things and he started to do a bit more. While there is a bit of laziness (on both our parts) I actually think he's quite blind to what has to be done, especially the little jobs that have to be done regularly. So it started with him asking what he should do, I'd make suggestions for him for when he had time, like sweep the hall etc, random things I always did. And he's really helped.
And he's acknowledging what is done in the house, which is also nice to hear.
We're far from organised but it's already made such a difference to me

I have a 14 year old child and he sounds like he’s 14 too. I genuinely believe that teenagers don’t see things the way we do. If they have to hoover they genuinely think they’ve done a good job but they’ve missed a lot. It’s not intentional at all but some of the blame lies with the parents because we don’t install these good practices and chores upon them at a young enough age.
I get that. I understand how it is for a 14 year old.

I assume your boyfriend isn’t 14 though. I don’t believe an adult who actually cares about things is not “quite blind to what has to be done”. I just feel he needs to put on his big boy pants and get on with it. I did see a suggestion earlier about a cleaner and I think that’s a great idea. 2 full time working adults should easily afford that a couple times per week and it’ll take away a lot of your pinch points bug the only down side would be be won’t wear those big boy pants as much.

I know this sounds like I’m mocking a little but I read your update and it did read like you were talking about a teenage boy.

chattering

Just speaking practically, a search online for "household chores" will throw up some printable lists which may be useful, with daily/weekly/monthly/seasonal tasks listed........The "what", to which can be added the "who" .......