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Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Degag


    OK so you haven't mentioned the wait between doses as a reason until now.
    NIAC seem to believe there's a higher risk and so aren't offering them.

    I didn’t mention it in that post either!

    Edit: ah sorry i get you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    It's the comparison to being up in front of a judge that I find bizarre...

    Has no relevance whatsoever.

    I think it's the just because you can dosnt mean you should, which is why I thought it was a morality thing..
    But they seem to change their reason as much as AZ change their delivery schedule.


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Degag wrote: »
    I didn’t mention it in that post either!

    Both but moreso the latter yes.

    And what was the latter point?

    Edit. I see you edited your post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Degag


    I think it's the just because you can dosnt mean you should, which is why I thought it was a morality thing..
    But they seem to change their reason as much as AZ change their delivery schedule.

    At least you took the time to read and understand the point even if you don’t agree!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Degag


    Both but moreso the latter yes.

    And what was the latter point?

    Edited my post


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  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Degag wrote: »
    At least you took the time to read and understand the point even if you don’t agree!

    I don't think your (generally not you specifically) morals should have any bearing on a person's own choice when or comes to medical treatment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Russman


    Degag wrote: »
    Both but moreso the latter yes.

    Clotting affects such a tiny percentile that it shouldn’t enter the thinking of someone who is healthy.

    Terrible if it does affect you but the benefits outweigh the risks.

    As a society they probably do, but on an individual level they may not.
    As far as I know (open to correction) there’s no way of knowing who is more susceptible to the clotting issue, it can get someone who is healthy or unhealthy. Age seems to be the only indicator so far.
    Personally I wouldn’t blame anyone for taking the option that’s allowed, and not wanting AZ or J&J. Likewise I think a lot of people of all ages would queue night and day at a pharmacy to get the one shot J&J if they eventually went that route with it.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Furze99 wrote: »
    Long past time to start sticking AZ & JJ vaccines in 30-60 yr olds. If I read one more smug FB boast - 'I just got Pfizered'........

    I've actually no issue with people boasting about getting vaccinated tbh, that's exactly what we want to shove the anti-vax rubbish back down the throats of those who scream and shout about it.

    More photos of people getting Pfizered or J&Jabbed or AstraZapped please :D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Necro wrote: »
    I've actually no issue with people boasting about getting vaccinated tbh, that's exactly what we want to shove the anti-vax rubbish back down the throats of those who scream and shout about it.

    More photos of people getting Pfizered or J&Jabbed or AstraZapped please :D:D


    I even got a free badge with mine “ i got my covid vaccine” should i wear it?? :pac:


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I even got a free badge with mine “ i got my covid vaccine” should i wear it?? :pac:

    I was rather jealous, my mum got one when I took her to the MVC but the GP surgery had none when I got mine :(

    I'd have 100% worn mine into work the following week!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,955 ✭✭✭Degag


    Russman wrote: »
    As a society they probably do, but on an individual level they may not.

    Absolutely yes but we need to think about society very carefully. One can't put themselves at risk of course but one really needs to think of the scale of that risk also. Once you start putting a good few zeroes to the right of the decimal point it becomes pretty negligible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    revelman wrote: »
    We ordered many more million doses than we could possibly use. Most rich countries did the same. It was only a matter of when this would happen...

    Source?

    But in essence that's not correct.

    There's a significant issue with supply in that not all ordered doses have been or will be received.eg AstraZeneca supplies have been cancelled from mid June by the EU.

    Ireland has yet to vaccinate the majority of its population with a first dose - and then have enough vaccines to supply all required second doses.

    Until we get to the point where the majority of people here are fully vaccinated and we know what vaccines supplies are guaranteed to arrive - we do not have as yet "many more million doses than we could use"


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭revelman


    gozunda wrote: »
    Source?

    But in essence that's not correct.

    There's a significant issue with supply in that not all ordered doses have been or will be received.eg AstraZeneca supplies have been cancelled from mid June by the EU.

    Ireland has yet to vaccinate the majority of its population with a first dose - and then have enough vaccines to supply all required second doses.

    Until we get to the point where the majority of people here are fully vaccinated and we know what vaccines supplies are guaranteed to arrive - we do not have as yet "many more million doses than we could use"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-has-ordered-enough-vaccines-for-10-3m-people-minister-1.4493876


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Necro wrote: »
    I was rather jealous, my mum got one when I took her to the MVC but the GP surgery had none when I got mine :(

    I'd have 100% worn mine into work the following week!

    I just can't see your Avatar with a badge. Sorry! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    revelman wrote: »

    Article dated Wed, Feb 24, 2021,

    Well out of date and vaccine orders as we have seen do not equal vaccine deliveries

    Also article behind a firewall. So it's really not clear whether they're referring to first doses only. If not - to be fully vaccinated we require just under 10 million individual doses of vaccine.

    Until we have the majority with first doses and second doses given - we have no idea the total number of vaccines we will receive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,773 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    IT: Gap between AstraZeneca doses to be reduced to 12 weeks
    https://ift.tt/3v5V8gb thats the least they could do


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,799 ✭✭✭sporina


    are there any stats on what % of the population here to date have refused a vaccine or who are saying that they won't get one?


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭niamh247


    Any clues what the trends for mRNA vaccines being given compared to others in near future? With AZ being discontinued next month, does that mean Ireland will mostly use mRNA going forward? Does the govt publish current levels of stocking for each type and roadmap or future trends?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    revelman wrote: »
    I really don’t see the issue of duress or pressure here. Is the law in Ireland really that different to other countries that are allowing people to receive AZ or J&J on the basis of informed consent? Informed consent surely means being told about the risks and then deciding nonetheless to take the vaccine. As soon as we go down the path of analysing issues such as “societal pressure”, we go down a rabbit hole. Just my opinion.

    You are entitled to your opinion.
    It unfortunately is the " rabbit hole " that NIAC and any country's immunisation authority needs to take into account , not the individual.
    Its not " societal pressure " as you put it , that is not what I said in my post . It is the societal and health needs of the country at a given time that influence NIAC , not individuals , decision making .

    No individual should be put in a situation where they have to make decisions about something as important as this without their authorising body having examined the data and made their recommendations , that's what their job is .
    We can choose to take whatever vaccine is allowed in our age group or risk level with at least the peace of mind that some medical professionals have taken that risk and accountability on their heads, so that each citizen is in the least danger from harm or side effects

    Other countries have different opinions and regulating authorities , yes, that's true .
    That has been the case all through this and arguments whether we , or they, were right or wrong will go on and on ...

    I would love if my children could get their JJ jabs soon , but unless things change it's not going to happen .
    Am I thinking that any of them know enough to override any recommendations from NIAC, and consent to the jab , except for the fact that they are desperate to get things back to normal , I am not too sure.

    Maybe those in older age groups might be given that option , less risk, more benefit ?


    Every authorising body has the responsibility for deciding what is safe in a given situation, in their own country .
    For example if we were in a situation where we had rising cases in the young , causing severe illness and hospitalisation, and / or no other vaccines available , then the situation is different . It is simply weighing up benefit , risks and the present need .

    They don't seem to think it's worth the risk at the present .

    That might change , but I am not going to be wishing for the risks from Covid to be going up , so that my kids or anyone else , for that matter , can get this vaccine .


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    niamh247 wrote: »
    Any clues what the trends for mRNA vaccines being given compared to others in near future? With AZ being discontinued next month, does that mean Ireland will mostly use mRNA going forward? Does the govt publish current levels of stocking for each type and roadmap or future trends?

    AZ is not being discontinued next month, the 300M order for AZ (and the J&J contract) remain in effect until they are fulfilled.

    No further contracts are planned.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Question, If a Vaccine bonus allows fully vaccinated people to meet indoors with non vaccinated people (up to 3 households) without masks and 2m distance.

    So in theory, a fully vaccinated person should be able to stand outside in the school yard without wearing a mask, so long as not mixing with more than 3 households while doing so. (although the whole class mix with each other anyway so this is pointless IMO)


  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    In regards to this,
    Goldengirl wrote: »

    Other countries have different opinions and regulating authorities , yes, that's true .
    That has been the case all through this and arguments whether we , or they, were right or wrong will go on and on ...
    .

    If anyone thinks another country is handling things better, they are free to move to that country. I said it time and time again to people born and bred in Ireland when they went on about Sweden last year, move there then! If you came to Ireland from another country and don't like how Ireland is handling this, leave. If you are Irish and don't like the laws in Ireland. Leave. Its really that simple. But people will just scream Whatabouttary nonsense all day long and stay here while moaning about it.

    *all youse are general terms and not specifically Golden Girl


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,945 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    https://www.euronews.com/2021/05/20/deal-reached-to-introduce-an-eu-wide-covid-travel-pass

    A single dose of an EMA approved vaccine will be sufficient for the EU green travel pass. Hopefully this news will help people hesitant to take the AZ vaccine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭revelman


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    You are entitled to your opinion.
    It unfortunately is the " rabbit hole " that NIAC and any country's immunisation authority needs to take into account , not the individual.
    Its not " societal pressure " as you put it , that is not what I said in my post . It is the societal and health needs of the country at a given time that influence NIAC , not individuals , decision making .

    No individual should be put in a situation where they have to make decisions about something as important as this without their authorising body having examined the data and made their recommendations , that's what their job is .
    We can choose to take whatever vaccine is allowed in our age group or risk level with at least the peace of mind that some medical professionals have taken that risk and accountability on their heads, so that each citizen is in the least danger from harm or side effects

    Other countries have different opinions and regulating authorities , yes, that's true .
    That has been the case all through this and arguments whether we , or they, were right or wrong will go on and on ...

    I would love if my children could get their JJ jabs soon , but unless things change it's not going to happen .
    Am I thinking that any of them know enough to override any recommendations from NIAC, and consent to the jab , except for the fact that they are desperate to get things back to normal , I am not too sure.

    Maybe those in older age groups might be given that option , less risk, more benefit ?


    Every authorising body has the responsibility for deciding what is safe in a given situation, in their own country .
    For example if we were in a situation where we had rising cases in the young , causing severe illness and hospitalisation, and / or no other vaccines available , then the situation is different . It is simply weighing up benefit , risks and the present need .

    They don't seem to think it's worth the risk at the present .

    That might change , but I am not going to be wishing for the risks from Covid to be going up , so that my kids or anyone else , for that matter , can get this vaccine .

    It looks like we are bound to have a different opinion on this. I’m all for regulators. Of course we need regulators. But once regulators have determined that vaccines are basically safe, albeit with incredibly rare side effects, then, in principle, I think that each adult should be allowed to decide what works best for them. Assuming that the adult in question has legal capacity to make a decision for themselves, they should be allowed to give informed consent to take any medicine or vaccine they want. Give them the facts - outline how the younger you are, the more the risk of the clot increases. But if a 30 year old wants to take a viral vector vaccine having given informed consent, so be it. This is why I think the German model makes sense. You must talk to your GP first and then you make your decision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Russman


    Does the portal work 24/7 ? Like, can you register at say a minute past midnight on the day your year opens ?
    I realise you can do it the day before but for silly reasons of wanting to do it fully by the book, I want to wait til my actual day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Question, If a Vaccine bonus allows fully vaccinated people to meet indoors with non vaccinated people (up to 3 households) without masks and 2m distance.

    So in theory, a fully vaccinated person should be able to stand outside in the school yard without wearing a mask, so long as not mixing with more than 3 households while doing so. (although the whole class mix with each other anyway so this is pointless IMO)

    That reminds me of the Leaving Cert Maths question circulating at the moment ..:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    revelman wrote: »
    It looks like we are bound to have a different opinion on this. I’m all for regulators. Of course we need regulators. But once regulators have determined that vaccines are basically safe, albeit with incredibly rare side effects, then, in principle, I think that each adult should be allowed to decide what works best for them. Assuming that the adult in question has legal capacity to make a decision for themselves, they should be allowed to give informed consent to take any medicine or vaccine they want. Give them the facts - outline how the younger you are, the more the risk of the clot increases. But if a 30 year old wants to take a viral vector vaccine having given informed consent, so be it. This is why I think the German model makes sense. You must talk to your GP first and then you make your decision.

    But that's the issue .
    While we know a lot about them and are learning more and more each day ,these are still relatively new treatments so it is not the same as a consultant recommending a course of action based on history and experience and years of data.
    And all in an atmosphere loaded with tension about vaccination numbers, case numbers etc.
    Generally I would be in agreement with you about informed consent , but not in this case


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ScottSF


    Russman wrote: »
    Does the portal work 24/7 ? Like, can you register at say a minute past midnight on the day your year opens ?
    I realise you can do it the day before but for silly reasons of wanting to do it fully by the book, I want to wait til my actual day.

    Looks like at least for age 47, the registration portal is already open (says 47 and up) as of 10pm tonight when the day is supposed to be tomorrow. So that is by the book I suppose :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    In regards to this,



    If anyone thinks another country is handling things better, they are free to move to that country. I said it time and time again to people born and bred in Ireland when they went on about Sweden last year, move there then! If you came to Ireland from another country and don't like how Ireland is handling this, leave. If you are Irish and don't like the laws in Ireland. Leave. Its really that simple. But people will just scream Whatabouttary nonsense all day long and stay here while moaning about it.

    *all youse are general terms and not specifically Golden Girl

    I would hope you are not referring to me at all there , never mind specifically!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 389 ✭✭Vaccinated30


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    I would hope you are not referring to me at all there , never mind specifically!

    I'm not at all, I just picked out the part in your post and wanted a disclaimer as didn't want to offend anyone.


This discussion has been closed.
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