Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

is_that_so

noplacehere wrote: »

Ah Jesus. And what about people part ways through their dose? This is a mess

Reported here too.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/apr/14/coronavirus-live-news-india-posts-record-new-cases-germany-wont-give-second-astrazeneca-dose-to-under-60s?page=with:block-6076c0d18f08b7e3afb8b194#block-6076c0d18f08b7e3afb8b194

is_that_so

BigMo1 wrote: »

I'd say we're much more likely to follow suit in cancelling usage than buy unused doses.

More likely to do nothing until someone provides clarity on the clotting issue.

lbj666

is_that_so wrote: »

Reported here too.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/apr/14/coronavirus-live-news-india-posts-record-new-cases-germany-wont-give-second-astrazeneca-dose-to-under-60s?page=with:block-6076c0d18f08b7e3afb8b194#block-6076c0d18f08b7e3afb8b194

Theres risk adversion but that takes the biscuit, even acknowledging they wont be finished til year end.

rm212

astrofool wrote: »

That's what we did, we have enough vaccines ordered to vaccinate everyone multiple times, it's not like we could have ordered 900M doses of Pfizer and be done, they don't have that many manufactured, so the rollout needs a variety of all approved vaccines.

The announcement around future contracts is for boosters after the initial rollout (if they're even needed), and it's a signal that Europe is going to fund mRNA vaccines going forward, so we'll see lots of capacity come online for mRNA vaccines to handle that (I wonder will we see an mRNA flu jab soon-ish).

J&J and AZ are still an integral part of the initial rollout (as are Valneva, Curevac and maybe Novavax).

My point was just, had the EU ordered say, twice as many Pfizer vaccines (with some of the tail end on an optional contract) on the same schedule, and immediately invested in production capacity for those vaccines, we could have had twice as many coming in (maybe not at the very start, but after a couple of months of deliveries) with each vaccine delivery as we currently do, which could have replaced the AZ/J&J deliveries for the most part - alongside larger Moderna orders.

I know the other vaccines are an integral part of the rollout due to how our supply situation is, yeah. I also know that is was very tough to know exactly what to do last year when these deals were made - as I said, hindsight is 20/20 and all that. Hopefully Novavax actually delivers as their tech also looks very promising.

Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

We're expecting 2,128,000 Pfizer doses this quarter and now they are suggesting exceeding this 'significantly'. Even 10-20% extra (like they are exceeding in the US) would be incredible.

Does it not say in the article Q2 increasing from 200 to 250mil, 25% increase?
It's labeled as accelerated delivery.

The message is out there that AZ is unsafe and that you will have to wait 16 weeks for dose 2. This has done serious damage to the programme. I have heard of 2 60 somethings in the past day who have both said they will pass on the AZ because they felt nervous about it and would hope in a few weeks to get the Pfizer instead which would leave them fully vaccinated earlier.

I would take in in the morning and strongly encourage family members to do the same, but if we start getting significant no shows its a dead duck

stephenjmcd

rm212 wrote: »

My point was just, had the EU ordered say, twice as many Pfizer vaccines (with some of the tail end on an optional contract) on the same schedule, and immediately invested in production capacity for those vaccines, we could have had twice as many coming in (maybe not at the start, but in later deliveries) with each vaccine delivery as we currently do, which could have replaced the AZ/J&J deliveries for the most part - alongside larger Moderna orders.

I know the other vaccines are an integral part of the rollout due to how our supply situation is, yeah. Hopefully Novavax actually delivers as their tech also looks very promising.

Except the EU has constantly been getting enchanted Pfizer contracts over the last few months, boosting Q2 & Q3 devlieries. In terms of production capacity in early Janaury began assisting BioNTech with the new production facilties.

What you've suggested has already been done so I'm not sure what the point being made is.

When negotiating the inital contracts nobody knew what would or wouldn't work, spread the risk among them all.

ACitizenErased

Wolf359f wrote: »

Does it not say in the article Q2 increasing from 200 to 250mil, 25% increase?
It's labeled as accelerated delivery.

Holy crap they just updated the article. 5 million extra doses.

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

The message is out there that AZ is unsafe and that you will have to wait 16 weeks for dose 2. This has done serious damage to the programme. I have heard of 2 60 somethings in the past day who have both said they will pass on the AZ because they felt nervous about it and would hope in a few weeks to get the Pfizer instead which would leave them fully vaccinated earlier.

I would take in in the morning and strongly encourage family members to do the same, but if we start getting significant no shows its a dead duck

Also know someone in their late sixties who is going to refuse AZ. Nothing will change her mind. Her buddy is the same.

stephenjmcd

Wolf359f wrote: »

Does it not say in the article Q2 increasing from 200 to 250mil, 25% increase?
It's labeled as accelerated delivery.

Think the article has been updated, didn't reference numbers earlier

Extra 50 million is excellent

ACitizenErased

Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE will raise Covid-19 vaccine deliveries to the European Union by 50 million this quarter, offering good news to the bloc after Johnson & Johnson’s shot was paused. The U.S. drugmaker will bring forward deliveries scheduled for the fourth quarter, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Wednesday. The additional supplies will add to the 200 million dose

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

rm212

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Except the EU has constantly been getting enchanted Pfizer contracts over the last few months, boosting Q2 & Q3 devlieries. In terms of production capacity in early Janaury began assisting BioNTech with the new production facilties.

What you've suggested has already been done so I'm not sure what the point being made is.

When negotiating the inital contracts nobody knew what would or wouldn't work, spread the risk among them all.

More could have been done re: boosting deliveries if that assistance with production capacity started last summer rather than January, for example. I do take the point though, that initially they weren't certain what would work - as I acknowledged in the original post, hindsight is 20/20.

nibtrix

rm212 wrote: »

My point was just, had the EU ordered say, twice as many Pfizer vaccines (with some of the tail end on an optional contract) on the same schedule, and immediately invested in production capacity for those vaccines, we could have had twice as many coming in (maybe not at the very start, but after a couple of months of deliveries) with each vaccine delivery as we currently do, which could have replaced the AZ/J&J deliveries for the most part - alongside larger Moderna orders.

I know the other vaccines are an integral part of the rollout due to how our supply situation is, yeah. I also know that is was very tough to know exactly what to do last year when these deals were made - as I said, hindsight is 20/20 and all that. Hopefully Novavax actually delivers as their tech also looks very promising.

As you say, hindsight is 20/20. When the deals were made it was impossible to know which vaccine would be most effective and easiest from a logistics point of view. We have to remember that Pfizer and Moderna were brand new tech that not everyone was 100% behind. We also have the cold-chain issue with Pfizer which makes it more difficult to manage/deliver, and when it was first brought up the feeling would have been "all the vaccines we are considering have similar efficacy but this one is going to cause a lot of extra work, therefore we won't put all our eggs in that one basket".

Every decision has been made based on the information available at that point in time. It's such a new and unique situation that I can't understand why people are so surprised/shocked/angry when changes happen.

Lucas Hood

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Good news - Pfizer/Biontech to beat EU Q2 delivery target! No specifics on much they might beat the target by, but good to hear something positive.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

We get 1.1% of Eu vaccines right so the extra is 50m so we should get 550,000 extra hopefully. Good news.

Le Bruise

Lucas Hood wrote: »

We get 1.1% of Eu vaccines right so the extra is 50m so we should get 550,000 extra hopefully. Good news.

Certainly takes the sting out of tail of the AZ news!

sd1999

Deleted User wrote: »

The message is out there that AZ is unsafe and that you will have to wait 16 weeks for dose 2. This has done serious damage to the programme. I have heard of 2 60 somethings in the past day who have both said they will pass on the AZ because they felt nervous about it and would hope in a few weeks to get the Pfizer instead which would leave them fully vaccinated earlier.

I would take in in the morning and strongly encourage family members to do the same, but if we start getting significant no shows its a dead duck

But it'll be months before they get Pfizer. Every official has been quite emphatic that you should take what you're offered and that no one is going to be able to choose.

rm212

nibtrix wrote: »

As you say, hindsight is 20/20. When the deals were made it was impossible to know which vaccine would be most effective and easiest from a logistics point of view. We have to remember that Pfizer and Moderna were brand new tech that not everyone was 100% behind. We also have the cold-chain issue with Pfizer which makes it more difficult to manage/deliver, and when it was first brought up the feeling would have been "all the vaccines we are considering have similar efficacy but this one is going to cause a lot of extra work, therefore we won't put all our eggs in that one basket".

Every decision has been made based on the information available at that point in time. It's such a new and unique situation that I can't understand why people are so surprised/shocked/angry when changes happen.

Absolutely, fully agreed on all of that. It's all hindsight.

lbj666

Deleted User wrote: »

The message is out there that AZ is unsafe and that you will have to wait 16 weeks for dose 2. This has done serious damage to the programme. I have heard of 2 60 somethings in the past day who have both said they will pass on the AZ because they felt nervous about it and would hope in a few weeks to get the Pfizer instead which would leave them fully vaccinated earlier.

I would take in in the morning and strongly encourage family members to do the same, but if we start getting significant no shows its a dead duck

Its daft given their risk bracket and the there is unsure and rough waters with infection levels in the few months ahead.

ACitizenErased

That Pfizer news is absolutely huge. That's 250k more fully vaccinated people.

rm212

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That Pfizer news is absolutely huge. That's 250k more fully vaccinated people.

More than covers that figure that was floating around regarding some doses of AZ possibly going unused with the new guidelines.

EDIT: In fact, looking at those charts, it gets close to covering the entire Q2 delivery of AZ to the EU!

ACitizenErased

rm212 wrote: »

More than covers that figure that was floating around regarding some doses of AZ possibly going unused with the new guidelines.

EDIT: In fact, looking at those charts, it gets close to covering the entire Q2 delivery of AZ to the EU!

It almost entirely negates any effect of the AZ changes. Pfizer/BioNTech are ridiculous :pac:

sd1999

sd1999 wrote: »

But it'll be months before they get Pfizer. Every official has been quite emphatic that you should take what you're offered and that no one is going to be able to choose.

That doesn't stop people telling themselves that, no matter how many times its spelled out

sd1999

ACitizenErased wrote: »

It almost entirely negates any effect of the AZ changes. Pfizer/BioNTech are ridiculous :pac:

Just eyeballing it, if AZ and J&J was to be used for the remaining over 70s and 60-69s, surely most problems would level out?

sd1999

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That doesn't stop people telling themselves that, no matter how many times its spelled out

Oh I know yeah, I fully understand. I think they really need to make it explicit that if you don’t take the first vaccine offered, you’ll have to wait quite a while. As in give an example of X refusing a AZ in May and having to wait until Y to get Pfizer.

I wonder if the 16 weeks is more of a deterrent than any potential side effects for over 60s.

Stark

sd1999 wrote: »

Just eyeballing it, if AZ and J&J was to be used for the remaining over 70s and 60-69s, surely most problems would level out?

It would but looks like by the time they get round to making that decision, all the over-70s will have had their first dose of Pfizer/Moderna so by then it'll be too late.

Dempo1

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE will raise Covid-19 vaccine deliveries to the European Union by 50 million this quarter, offering good news to the bloc after Johnson & Johnson’s shot was paused. The U.S. drugmaker will bring forward deliveries scheduled for the fourth quarter, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said Wednesday. The additional supplies will add to the 200 million dose

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/pfizer-biontech-on-track-to-beat-second-quarter-eu-vaccine-goal

Give it a week when Ursula announces she was either misinformed or Pfizer not adhering to their contractual obligations.

I'd take anything coming out of the EU with a grain of salt at this stage.

If what's being leaked out of today's cabinet meeting its clear mixing Vacinnes and extending time frames between doses being considered, not at all surprised, Donnelly & Co will clutch at anything by now. Just shocking ineptitude.

dominatinMC

dominatinMC wrote: »

I presume RTE will be leading with this story today then? :rolleyes:

Are you the chief news editor in RTE by any chance?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0414/1209776-covid-19-live-blog/

marno21

Taoiseach confirms extra 545k in Q2.

Wonderful news. The best vaccine of them all too.

dominatinMC

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you the chief news editor in RTE by any chance?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0414/1209776-covid-19-live-blog/

Guilty as charged

Danzy

BigMo1 wrote: »

I'd say we're much more likely to follow suit in cancelling usage than buy unused doses.

Probably but that is tragic for us all collectively.