Star Trek: Discovery - Season 4 - (*** Spoilers***)

Agent Coulson

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1379175212927778823?s=20

ilovesmybrick

I like the new uniforms, I think.

Other than that I had really hoped they would shelve the Burnham centric universe ending problems by season 4. Doesn't look like the case.

I'll still watch it, because it's Trek, but I'm so happy I saw your Picard trailer post before I came here to rant!

Spear

I'm okay with the new uniforms, I thought the grey ones looked kind of 19th century in their colour and style.

Speculation/spoliers:

it looks like Saru stays, but as first officer, with Burnham remaining captain from one of the images released. Although the Burnham-centric nature of the show has been an issue so far, making her the captain may tie her to the ship and crew more, instead of her going off on her own to single handedly save the universe.

alchemist33

Spear wrote: »

I'm okay with the new uniforms, I thought the grey ones looked kind of 19th century in their colour and style.

Speculation/spoliers:

it looks like Saru stays, but as first officer, with Burnham remaining captain from one of the images released. Although the Burnham-centric nature of the show has been an issue so far, making her the captain may tie her to the ship and crew more, instead of her going off on her own to single handedly save the universe.

Based on that trailer, it looks like much of the same as before.

Rawr

Picard 2 has me hopeful, Lower Decks 2 has me really hopeful.

This...doesn't really surprise me at all, and I guess that's why I'm not disappointed. I really can't see myself managing to get motivated enough to see this one. It was such a slogg to finish Season 3 near the end, and this trailer gives me the impression that it will be even more of the same. Something is floating about threatening the entire Alpha Quadrant / Galaxy, and I can't seem to care despite their best efforts to illustrate high-stakes. I think it's because I know that the pay off just won't be worth it.

ilovesmybrick

alchemist33 wrote: »

Based on that trailer, it looks like much of the same as before.

Yup, ten episodes of to find out how Burnham saves the world. Like all the other seasons.

However, the Picard trailer is teasing a Tapestry style season, which could be amazing, and Lower Decks has a Miranda class and jazz Riker, so two out of three ain't bad!

pixelburp

The one potential positive in all this is that by making Burnham the captain, it somewhat removes the frustration of her unilateralism and ability to steer plots around more senior figures from prior years. She's the captain now, these big script swings will at least sit better on her shoulders, given the buck now really does stop with her.

Though no doubt too much time will be spent with her angsting "gosh, am I the right leader?" And the rest of the crew telling her how wonderful she is.

AMKC

Well that is nothing surprising. Just more of the same. Ye I will not be in any big hurry to watch season 4 then. I think 4 seasons of this show will be enough and end it at that it does not deserve any more seasons of it's just constantly the same stuff rehashed a different way.

Acosta

After just horsing through 5 seasons of brilliant sci-fi in the form of The Expanse, wasting anymore time on this feels a bit silly.

silverharp

can you unpoison a well? all the characters are firmly in their tracks at this stage, apart from Saru there is no character where you dont want the scene to end. At this stage I might just watch Nerdrotic's reaction for the lolz and to confirm its just more of the same

the RT ratings are a hoot 91% critics 45% audience , note the Expanse is 93% and 94% talk about in sympatico

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s03

91%
TOMATOMETER
Critic Ratings: 32
45%
AUDIENCE SCORE
User Ratings: 692

~Rebel~

silverharp wrote: »

can you unpoison a well? all the characters are firmly in their tracks at this stage, apart from Saru there is no character where you dont want the scene to end. At this stage I might just watch Nerdrotic's reaction for the lolz and to confirm its just more of the same

the RT ratings are a hoot 91% critics 45% audience , note the Expanse is 93% and 94% talk about in sympatico

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/star_trek_discovery/s03

91%
TOMATOMETER
Critic Ratings: 32
45%
AUDIENCE SCORE
User Ratings: 692

RT is kinda pointless for TV unfortunately, as most of the critic reviews for a season/show are based off only an episode or two. Most of the reviews from season 3 are dated October last year, at a time when only 2 episodes had aired.

RT's good enough for a quick read yay/nay for movies, but it just doesn't really work for TV.

silverharp

~Rebel~ wrote: »

RT is kinda pointless for TV unfortunately, as most of the critic reviews for a season/show are based off only an episode or two. Most of the reviews from season 3 are dated October last year, at a time when only 2 episodes had aired.

RT's good enough for a quick read yay/nay for movies, but it just doesn't really work for TV.

I dont care about critics scores though I find it amusing, 0% or 100% wouldnt change a decision but the user scores are going to drip in during the season. I had a quick look at the number of user scores,>1500 for season 4 of the expanse and <700 for season 3 of discovery, so again less energy as well

pixelburp

Yes, aggregators are meaningless with TV, as many outlets would only receive a few episodes to review. A few will do per-episode watches of course, but there's no source of truth to be gleaned from the perspective of a critical consensus as it never reflect an entire season

PhiloCypher

They honestly couldn't have designed a less appealing teaser for me. Its full of the all the grating Discovery tropes I've come to hate:

overwrought narration [check]
galaxy wide threat [check]

Same s**t , different season.

They'll spend half the season setting up this galaxy threatening anomaly at the expense of exploring the 32 century and Discoveries under developed characters.

Spear

PhiloCypher wrote: »

They honestly couldn't have designed a less appealing teaser for me. Its full of the all the grating Discovery tropes I've come to hate:

overwrought narration [check]
galaxy wide threat [check]

Same s**t , different season.

They'll spend half the season setting up this galaxy threatening anomaly at the expense of exploring the 32 century and Discoveries under developed characters.

I suspect they're limited in the completed footage, and much like the teaser for season 3, it's mostly from the first episode.

Not that the other criticisms aren't still valid despite this, sadly.

ednwireland

gave up on it after season 2 just didnt do it me , wasnt getting the ratings on whatever channel as well as it got bumped to midnight - how its still going is beyond me.

rewatching enterprise with fond memories at teh moment

_Kaiser_

PhiloCypher wrote: »

They honestly couldn't have designed a less appealing teaser for me. Its full of the all the grating Discovery tropes I've come to hate:

overwrought narration [check]
galaxy wide threat [check]

Same s**t , different season.

They'll spend half the season setting up this galaxy threatening anomaly at the expense of exploring the 32 century and Discoveries under developed characters.

Yup, from the look of that trailer, awful show is still awful.

More Burnham saves the galaxy nonsense, more teen drama feels and tears, more anonymous crew members.

Evade

Has anyone seen the Stagate SG-1 episode 200? STD is really reminding me of the Wormhole X-treme movie.

Rawr

Evade wrote: »

Has anyone seen the Stagate SG-1 episode 200? STD is really reminding me of the Wormhole X-treme movie.

I think I might prefer to watch Wormhole X-treme. Would at least be funny :P

TheIrishGrover

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zKNZGmISZQ

And let's not forget the fantastically meta...

Evade

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

And let's not forget the fantastically meta...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCNDdlCo4rA

I love the fun they had with that bit, "I have no idea what that is."

Cookie_Monster

Hopefully s4 will be the end of this. There is no way it deserves more than ENT got

TheIrishGrover

I must say, I never quite got the HATE for Discovery. I enjoyed some of the characters and it gave us the Pike spinoff which we have to be grateful for.
But, like so many, the biggest weakness is the overreliance on the Burnham character to the detriment of ALL other characters and the overly melodramatic voiceovers about hope and peace and.... I don't know.... the importance of a good cup of tea.

Each season trailer seemed to indicate a slight shift in tone suggesting a slight lessening on the focus on Burnham or a removal that stick from her ass. Only for us to find out that this was mistaken (I'm thinking particularly about last season which seemed to show her having more fun only to realise that they were all picked from one 5 min sequence in the first episode).

However this trailer doesn't even bother with that subterfuge. I'll still watch it. I'm sure I'll enjoy parts but, yeah, it's not on my "AWESOME, Trek is back!!!" reaction.

I thought last season was very poor and a real missed opportunity: Book started as a fun but one-note character (cough)Han Solo(cough) before falling to the standard Burnham-worshipping role. I liked the addition of the new Trill/human kid but again, their situation simply HAD to be resolved by Burnham because.....
.... And the less said about the truly truly AWFUL baddie, the better.


So I'll watch but my interest is certainly waning. Roll on Brave New Worlds, Picard and Lower Decks (And let's just abandon the campiness Discovery-style Section 31 series. It will NOT be the interesting DS9-style version)

pixelburp

I remember seeing Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull in cinemas: a full screening that night, and by chance I sat beside a guy for whom "neckbeard" was simply accurate. A total cliche of a nerd in appearance; and throughout the whole movie, he was positively vibrating with irritated energy, frequently bashing the arm-rest with frustration at whatever indignity he beheld on-screen. It was so distracting, I was in two minds about turning and telling him to stop but the few times I glanced he looked genuinely angry. I have vague recollections of a partner or girlfriend whispering calm. Now, I didn't think the movie was great either - but nor have I ever since thought it deserving of the ludicrous, outsized reaction it gets online on a frequent basis.

Do I have a point? Uh. Not really if I'm honest the above just made me think of that time in the cinema; I think there's some parallels to Discovery (and I've long since theorised that in our more secular society, humans are channelling all that zealotry previously reserved for religion into pop-culture instead) where nerd culture has adopted some whipping boys into which hatred gets focused. Not necessarily pointing fingers here like, just *waves hands vaguely* across the Internet's pop-culture spheres.

Discovery's bad, and contains some of the worst TV scriptwriting I've ever witnessed - and skims very close to the Hate Watch for me at times. But I can't actively, openly hate it with passion. Life's too short for one, and as much as I love Star Trek, it's not like this show is somehow degrading the series. It's arguably the low-point of its execution for the longest stretch of episodes across a season; whereas TNG has some definitive "Worst of Trek" moments, it was here and there. Even Discovery has had some good spots - and were I doing a spring clean of its cast, folk like Jet Reno would absolutely make the cut.

TheIrishGrover

pixelburp wrote: »

..... folk like Jet Reno would absolutely make the cut.

Every one of the few lines she has is awesome. She would make the cut simply for "I dreamed I played with Prince... Weird"

pixelburp

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Every one of the few lines she has is awesome. She would make the cut simply for "I dreamed I played with Prince... Weird"

Tig Notaro brings a totally different energy to the show that's sorely lacking. Not necessarily cynicism, but a workaday honesty. There's far, far too much earnestness in everything its cast does. Which again, speaks to the lack of talent and nuance in the writing team. Because to be fair, Trek IS about being set in an inclusive, empathic society where all humanity's best qualities persevered; but Discovery took that and put it into a constant stream of speeches, rather than actual actions by its cast.

flazio

Glad to see they finally are giving medical their own uniform colour, white. I mean You'd think even in the far future you'd need to be able to tell the difference between a doctor and a botanist at quick glance. Now to change either security or engineering/operations to another colour. I'm thinking perhaps tan for security, that way when working with the black uniform Section 33 they can be the black and.... Oh no wait, scratch that.

Rawr

flazio wrote: »

Glad to see they finally are giving medical their own uniform colour, white. I mean You'd think even in the far future you'd need to be able to tell the difference between a doctor and a botanist at quick glance. Now to change either security or engineering/operations to another colour. I'm thinking perhaps tan for security, that way when working with the black uniform Section 33 they can be the black and.... Oh no wait, scratch that.

In fairness, they had differentiated the divisions better before.



Wrath of Khan was also a great example of Engineering having their own functional uniform. Kind of wished they held onto that.

Evade

Hasn't Culber been wearing white since the series began?

TNG had the "trust me I'm a doctor" labcoat for Crusher (and Ogawa in alternate timelines).

One uniform I would like to have seen used more consistently is the TNG era utility uniform. It cropped up often enough in season one and two, mostly in engineering, and then only once in a while after that.

Cookie_Monster

Tig Notaro confirmed to return as Jett Reno, a slim shimmer of hope for season 4

Banana Republic 1

Agent Coulson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1379175212927778823?s=20

Looks like a turd and sounds like a turd. Looks like they have just lifted and repainted enterprise xindi series. The change in uniform thing is the lip service canon will get, what happened to the grey ones I wonder?

pixelburp

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Tig Notaro confirmed to return as Jett Reno, a slim shimmer of hope for season 4

Contractually it won't be possible but they should just sack half the cast, keep Notaro as chief engineer. She has been a breath of fresh, sarcastic air, stealing every scene.

Banana Republic 1

pixelburp wrote: »

Contractually it won't be possible but they should just sack half the cast, keep Notaro as chief engineer. She has been a breath of fresh, sarcastic air, stealing every scene.

A warp core breach caused by the crew throwing The Burnham into it, would be my preference.

pixelburp

Maybe just Burnham TBH. An Ensemble cast can't coexist in the same space as a Lead Character script; I do somewhat sympathise with any writer having to centre a story around Michael, while also giving screen-time to a dozen faces we have had no background or elaboration of. No wonder Detmers PTSD just got lost in the mix.

AMKC

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Tig Notaro confirmed to return as Jett Reno, a slim shimmer of hope for season 4

I would not call that a slimmer if hope. I never liked her. She is dull, stuck up and not nice and certainly not how I imagine humans 2 or 3 hundred years from now. So far Discovery has not had one decent or proper engineer but then it never had a proper engine room or warp core either.

AMKC

pixelburp wrote: »

Contractually it won't be possible but they should just sack half the cast, keep Notaro as chief engineer. She has been a breath of fresh, sarcastic air, stealing every scene.

I totally disagree with you. She is a terrible charather. I can not like her at all. Worst engineer ever if you would even call her that.

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

Contractually it won't be possible but they should just sack half the cast, keep Notaro as chief engineer. She has been a breath of fresh, sarcastic air, stealing every scene.

Jet Rino did have more of the feel of a Trek engineer and her sarcasm did provide a good bit of grounding to any scene she was in. Badly needed in a show that spends half it's run in OTT special effects hell and the rest of it in whisper-talked moments of overly emoted scene chewery. Much prefered the other Trek engineers though. She doesn't compare well. Even Torres is better, and I never liked her.

On that note though...was she actually Chief Engineer? There are multiple characters who could of been that, but they leave it very ambiguous. (Apparently Cupler isn't even Chief Medical Officer) On that same note; have we ever actually seen Main Engineering on that ship? I'm not sure the spore-drive mushroom-room counted, since that was in addition to what I assume was traditional Warp-Core. Did they forget? Where they that blind when it came to designing a Trek show?

pixelburp

AMKC wrote: »

I would not call that a slimmer if hope. I never liked her. She is dull, stuck up and not nice and certainly not how I imagine humans 2 or 3 hundred years from now. So far Discovery has not had one decent or proper engineer but then it never had a proper engine room or warp core either.

I don't think a utopia precludes characters from being asshóles; McCoy wasn't exactly a people person, while other characters like Bashir was insufferably arrogant at the start. Reno has a fun, antagonistic manner that suits her position and at least challenges the nauseating love-in that happens on that ship.

Banana Republic 1

AMKC wrote: »

I totally disagree with you. She is a terrible charather. I can not like her at all. Worst engineer ever if you would even call her that.

She is like John Wayne, Tig Nataro acting range consists of Tig Nataro in a different uniform. Take a look at the Netflix turkey Army of the Dead in which Nataro plays a loud mouth opinionated helicopter pilot…

CastorTroy

To be honest, Jett seemed to just turn up, when needed to deliver a line then disappear long enough for people to wonder if she's still on the show.

Ozark2020

Do people still watch this turd of a show ?

Rawr

Ozark2020 wrote: »

Do people still watch this turd of a show ?

What's left of my curiosity for Discovery might extend to wondering if others have reached the same point as myself, where hope for the shows improvment is pretty much gone and that the last few episodes of Season 3 were such a chore to watch that it's hard to imagine wanting to experience more of that.

I will likely read the Season 4 threads here to see if there's anything worth watching...otherwise I won't bother.

pixelburp

Discovery is not a Good Show, and one that'll never be such until Burnham leaves. I'll probably keep watching it however because a) it's Trek, and b) As someone who has watched the CW stable of Superhero shows, I already have a tolerance for shítty writing that's probably higher than most here :pac:

But that resignation means reading the sledges feels totally pointless. Four seasons in, and it's not like the landscape of this show isn't well signposted by now. I won't defend the thing anymore, but would ask what people are expecting at this stage, bar some easy/cheap snark

Banana Republic 1

The Boys on Amazon id recommend to clean the CW taste

pixelburp

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The Boys on Amazon id recommend to clean the CW taste

Never said I didn't enjoy the CW shows And I've watched The Boys; it's OK but the "shock value" stuff is classic Mark Millar edgelord nonsense while the show itself is as deep as a puddle. Invincible does a similar subversion of superheroes with actual characters and depth.

breezy1985

Rawr wrote: »

On that note though...was she actually Chief Engineer? There are multiple characters who could of been that, but they leave it very ambiguous. (Apparently Cupler isn't even Chief Medical Officer) On that same note; have we ever actually seen Main Engineering on that ship? I'm not sure the spore-drive mushroom-room counted, since that was in addition to what I assume was traditional Warp-Core. Did they forget? Where they that blind when it came to designing a Trek show?

All part of the failed attempt to be different and not focus on senior staff. He isn't CMO but just gets invited to all the parties. If I was senior staff on that ship I would be getting fair pissy about the captains clear favoritism towards their buddies.

There's a nice running joke in Community about how everything revolves around the seemingly unimportant study group that comes to mind

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

Never said I didn't enjoy the CW shows And I've watched The Boys; it's OK but the "shock value" stuff is classic Mark Millar edgelord nonsense while the show itself is as deep as a puddle. Invincible does a similar subversion of superheroes with actual characters and depth.

Sorry if I asked before but what's a CW show ?

pixelburp

breezy1985 wrote: »

Sorry if I asked before but what's a CW show ?

These shows
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowverse

The writing makes Discovery look like Aaron Sorkin, but the shows often have a very earnest, optimistic heart that's hard to be annoyed at. It's basically the closest to Golden Age Superheroics since Donner's '78 Superman film. Plus Supergirl Season 4 was legitimately good TV and got the balance perfect.

Evade

breezy1985 wrote: »

All part of the failed attempt to be different and not focus on senior staff. He isn't CMO but just gets invited to all the parties. If I was senior staff on that ship I would be getting fair pissy about the captains clear favoritism towards their buddies.

The Discovery department heads need to be more like Tasha in All Good Things.

pah

Evade wrote: »

The Discovery department heads need to be more like Tasha in All Good Things Skin of Evil.

FYP

~Rebel~

breezy1985 wrote: »

Sorry if I asked before but what's a CW show ?

pixelburp wrote: »

These shows
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowverse

The writing makes Discovery look like Aaron Sorkin, but the shows often have a very earnest, optimistic heart that's hard to be annoyed at. It's basically the closest to Golden Age Superheroics since Donner's '78 Superman film. Plus Supergirl Season 4 was legitimately good TV and got the balance perfect.

And in a broader sense, The CW is an American channel that makes content geared towards teenagers, so it can often be very overwrought, angsty stuff, with lots of relationship drama and people storming out after poorly communicating their thoughts.

As well as the Arrowverse, they make things like Pretty Little Liars, Vampire Diaries, One Tree Hill etc etc.