Possible controversial opinion regarding e-bikes.

Jerrykay6

My opinion is in relation to what I deem to be a push toward e-bikes as a more environmentally friendly commuting option.

Before I state my opinion I would like to highlight that I do think ebikes are fantastic option under certain circumstances (older adults who can no longer ride as much as they used to on a push bikes, people with certain physical limitations etc which make push bikes unfeasible and I'm sure there are many other excellent uses of e bikes).

For any healthy adult though why not push for regular bikes. Most people who would consider cycling to work don't commute massive distances and a large majority of the population could use all the extra activity they can get (I know e bikes require some effort but still less than a regular bike). The electricity needed to charge ebikes is still generated via fossil fuels, so while they are not directly spewing out emissions they are indirectly contributing. Finally, e bikes don't solve any of the more genuine issues with commuting such as poor weather, dangerous driver etc.

Fighting Tao

If you think e-bikes are bad for the environment, just wait until you hear about e-cars.

Speedline

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

My opinion is in relation to what I deem to be a push toward e-bikes as a more environmentally friendly commuting option.

Before I state my opinion I would like to highlight that I do think ebikes are fantastic option under certain circumstances (older adults who can no longer ride as much as they used to on a push bikes, people with certain physical limitations etc which make push bikes unfeasible and I'm sure there are many other excellent uses of e bikes).

For any healthy adult though why not push for regular bikes. Most people who would consider cycling to work don't commute massive distances and a large majority of the population could use all the extra activity they can get (I know e bikes require some effort but still less than a regular bike). The electricity needed to charge ebikes is still generated via fossil fuels, so while they are not directly spewing out emissions they are indirectly contributing. Finally, e bikes don't solve any of the more genuine issues with commuting such as poor weather, dangerous driver etc.

Very few businesses have shower facilities for their staff. Try working all day after a sweaty summer cycle to work.

magicbastarder

E-bikes don't fix the issue of dangerous drivers? An odd statement.

CantGetNoSleep

Good to get that off your chest I guess. Ebikes get more people on bikes, open up more journeys to young and healthy people who otherwise might not bother, make a huge range of trips possible by bike (kids, cargo, anything). I don't have one but I think they are a fantastic thing, the future of mobility in my view

Jerrykay6

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

My opinion is in relation to what I deem to be a push toward e-bikes as a more environmentally friendly commuting option.

Where they are mentioned as an environmentally friendly option, it is as an alternative to other more polluting options

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Before I state my opinion I would like to highlight that I do think ebikes are fantastic option under certain circumstances (older adults who can no longer ride as much as they used to on a push bikes, people with certain physical limitations etc which make push bikes unfeasible and I'm sure there are many other excellent uses of e bikes).

The word you are looking for is ableism

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

For any healthy adult though why not push for regular bikes.

Some do, some don't

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

The electricity needed to charge ebikes is still generated via fossil fuels, so while they are not directly spewing out emissions they are indirectly contributing.

Folks should just stay in their diesel until the grid is 100% green otherwise there is no point.

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Finally, e bikes don't solve any of the more genuine issues with commuting such as poor weather, dangerous driver etc.

Were you expecting them to? They are just bikes with batteries and a small motor. Moderate your expectations a bit

Jerrykay6

Speedline wrote: »

Very few businesses have shower facilities for their staff. Try working all day after a sweaty summer cycle to work.

There's no reason to be drenched in sweat from a cycle to work (unless you turn it into a workout). Dialing down the intensity slightly will at most cost you a couple of extra minutes over a 5-10km commute.

Markcheese

There is nothing I hate more ( when cycling ) , than riding into the wind , hills I don't mind ( within reason ) , you don't get that horrible , I feel like I'm going backwards , so much with an e-bike -

From a commuter point of view e-bikes are optional - and anything that makes people more likely to cycle , that's a great thing ...

Jerrykay6

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Good to get that off your chest I guess. Ebikes get more people on bikes, open up more journeys to young and healthy people who otherwise might not bother, make a huge range of trips possible by bike (kids, cargo, anything). I don't have one but I think they are a fantastic thing, the future of mobility in my view

I just don't think young and healthy people need any more "regressions" so to speak.

AmberGold

Yes your opinion is controversial, E-Bikes are the future without question, more so than E-Cars. Regular bikes have not encouraged people from their cars.

We need secure parking facilities in our city’s and towns to encourage the transition. The same applies to conventional bikes.

AmberGold

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

I just don't think young and healthy people need any more "regressions" so to speak.

In a perfect world young people would be cycling bikes and walking everywhere. They wouldn’t be a global problem with drugs and drink either.

This is the real world, E-Bikes are here to stay and will improve, their use should be encouraged. In fact after reading your last response I don’t know why I’m responding.

Jerrykay6

AmberGold wrote: »

In a perfect world young people would be cycling bikes and walking everywhere. They wouldn’t be a global problem with drugs and drink either.

This is the real world, E-Bikes are here to stay and will improve, their use should be encouraged. In fact after reading your last response I don’t know why I’m responding.

I just think young people are incredibly lazy these days. Half the country is obese. Obesity was simply unheard of when I was a young adult. We cycled everywhere, intact it wasn't uncommon to cycle from Cavan down to Croke park for a match.

Corker1

Anything to get people out of their Cars. Not everyone enjoys the level of effort involved in riding a regular bike. I'm not sure I did either riding into that gale today :-). As for arguing against using a bike with a tiny battery and small motor to assist, on the grounds of it being damaging for the environment, maybe consider the alternatives... Traveling by car or any fossil fueled transport modes have a much larger carbon footprint not to mention output of health damaging emissions, often close to people. Renewables are generating an ever increasing proportion of our electricity on the grid. More and more people are installing micro-generation solar panels and wind at home. We are entering the electric age.
If you want to ride fueled only by your Weetabix and coffee - good for you. But maybe don't judge others for their green biking choices.
As for me, I am still lucky to be healthy and motivated to ride my regular bike often and in all weathers. But if my knees get worn out or the Doc says my ticker is not up to it, I will be zipping around the place on me solar powered ebike.

Speedline

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

There's no reason to be drenched in sweat from a cycle to work (unless you turn it into a workout). Dialing down the intensity slightly will at most cost you a couple of extra minutes over a 5-10km commute.

This ain't Holland. There are inclines in Ireland.

buffalo

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

I just think young people are incredibly lazy these days. Half the country is obese. Obesity was simply unheard of when I was a young adult. We cycled everywhere, intact it wasn't uncommon to cycle from Cavan down to Croke park for a match.

So if nobody does that anymore, do you think the solution is to call everyone lazy and obese and hope that changes their mind?

Jerrykay6

Speedline wrote: »

This ain't Holland. There are inclines in Ireland.

It's not the bloody french Alps ether.

ratracer

Which type do you cycle yourself OP?

CivilCybil

I'm considering an e-bike. I used one on holiday and loved it.
I work about 5km from home. Currently working from home. I wouldn't cycle a normal bike as I'm pretty unfit and I know I'd be far less likely to cycle if I wasn't enjoying it. Similarly I probably will only cycle on days when I feel like it.

Yeah I'm lazy and obese. (Although I'm working on it). But fact is, an e-bike will get me on a bike at least some of the time. Versus not getting on a bike at all.
As my fitness and confidence improves I can rely less on the E part of the bike.

I'm all for them. Think they're great and in terms of exercise something is better than nothing imo.

KevRossi

E-Bike user here. FWIW I'm about 20 kg overweight but can easily do 120 km on a cheap, 8 year old road bike that cost me €350 in Halfords. I can do the Wicklow 200 with about 4 weeks practice.

I got an E-Bike for work. I was living in the north city centre and working 14 km away in Sandyford, so a nice steep climb at the end. The E-Bike means I can cycle to work with jeans, casual shoes, a shirt/polo shirt and a jacket on me. No sweating, no need to change, etc. It saves me the Luas or driving. I regularly do trips of 15 km each way on it to visit firends, do 5 km each way on it to go shopping, These are all trips that I would have driven a couple of years ago. Call it me being lazy that I used to drive those routes, I call it convenience. But the bike has changed that.

I paid for a decent rain mac and a poncho and along with ordinary clothes for days it doesn't rain it covers 98% of trips to work. The other 2% I'll either Luas it, or else I'll use leggings and take jeans, shoes, socks and a towel in a bag.

I have panniers and can get the big weekly shop in for 2 people with the bike no problem. I'll pick up a trailer in a month or so and this should almost eliminate the need for a car in the city. If I had a 2-car family, the E-Bike would probably mean we could go down to 1 car.

They are a game changer, the commute is only a part of it. They just open up so many small journeys to now being handy to scoot along on the e-bike rather than take a car and that's as important to me as using it for commuting.

Along with e-scooters they are a game changer in transport and mobility. You can talk all you want about obesity, most people drive short distances because of convenience and 'laziness'. We don't think about our health, because we don't want to.

What we actually need more than ever are safe routes and better enforcement to encourage more people out of cars in the first place and leave space on the roads. We need to embrace e-bikes, not have a whining session about them.


*Commuting above refers to pre-COVID.
*E-Bikes refers to legal ones.

dahat

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

I just think young people are incredibly lazy these days. Half the country is obese. Obesity was simply unheard of when I was a young adult. We cycled everywhere, intact it wasn't uncommon to cycle from Cavan down to Croke park for a match.

Creation of a fast food generation has been a huge factor in the current obesity crisis. Also it is far cheaper to get junk that good healthy food.

Tigerandahalf

E-Scooters are going to be huge in the future if we put safe routes in place.
I was in Valencia a few years back and they have a great route through the city (former dried up river bed) and as I walked along in the morning I was passed by several ladies in business suits on their e-scooters.

Fold them up and you can take them on public transport, into your office and into your own home. They take up very little space.

Even with the bad weather in Ireland you could put on a full length poncho or other more fashionable attire and scoot your way in. Zero sweating. So many children could also get to school in this way.

The amount of small journeys that could be cut out would be very significant.

Wishbone Ash

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

...it wasn't uncommon to cycle from Cavan down to Croke park for a match.

Careful now, you're leading with your chin there!

(Where is Niall Tobin when you need him?).

Jonesy101

Speedline wrote: »

Very few businesses have shower facilities for their staff. Try working all day after a sweaty summer cycle to work.

A lot of commuters think its a race to get to work and how to over take as many people as possible on the way. I cycle to work at a leisurely pace all year, no need to shower. (im fit so still go pretty quick) Its very easy to not need to shower at work and its a totally lame excuse.

joe40

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

I just think young people are incredibly lazy these days. Half the country is obese. Obesity was simply unheard of when I was a young adult. We cycled everywhere, intact it wasn't uncommon to cycle from Cavan down to Croke park for a match.

My experience is totally different, I was a teenager in the 80s and no one cycled. Thumbing lifts was very common but not cycling.

On the cycling to school the weight of the school bags both my teenagers carry would make that impossible. (Not to mention a horrible hill that would be is absolute grind for anyone)

rolling boh

Think e bikes definitely have their place Great option for people lots of people may do other exercise so it doesn't mean people are too lazy to pedal .

magicbastarder

i've seen commutes of 5-10km being mentioned as doable without getting into a lather of sweat; much harder to do so if it's 20-25km, which many people would face. e-bikes are obviously going to help here.

Mecrab

CivilCybil wrote: »

I'm considering an e-bike. I used one on holiday and loved it.
I work about 5km from home. Currently working from home. I wouldn't cycle a normal bike as I'm pretty unfit and I know I'd be far less likely to cycle if I wasn't enjoying it. Similarly I probably will only cycle on days when I feel like it.

Yeah I'm lazy and obese. (Although I'm working on it). But fact is, an e-bike will get me on a bike at least some of the time. Versus not getting on a bike at all.
As my fitness and confidence improves I can rely less on the E part of the bike.

I'm all for them. Think they're great and in terms of exercise something is better than nothing imo.

If you can get one on the bike to work scheme, do it! Best thing I've ever bought.

buffalo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've seen commutes of 5-10km being mentioned as doable without getting into a lather of sweat; much harder to do so if it's 20-25km, which many people would face. e-bikes are obviously going to help here.

~22km in ~45mins and sweaty is a lot more preferable to over an hour but not sweaty. Especially when half the reason for commuting by bike is the exercise.

Seaswimmer

Maybe its just me but the people who pass me on e-bikes on my Covid laps all seem to be older than me and I am almost 60..They sail up hills and inclines and go into the wind no bother while I huff and puff after them.
I am fairly sure that ebikes have enabled cycling for them when otherwise they would have given up (or maybe never started)
Ebikes are a huge benefit for this demographic

Edit: Great link here for anyone who wants to see our electricity generation from all sources in real time..


https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/IE?fbclid=IwAR32HJOrNFda31VXI0LsQs-mc9-0BipXmJdoyjbLqeQrqcjSE-w3kMvmx6E

magicbastarder

buffalo wrote: »

~22km in ~45mins and sweaty is a lot more preferable to over an hour but not sweaty. Especially when half the reason for commuting by bike is the exercise.

was similar for me before lockdown. 20km each way, and shower facilities available. no point in hanging around in that instance, putting the foot down and showering would be noticeably quicker than going at a pace which negated the need for a shower.

buffalo

magicbastarder wrote: »

was similar for me before lockdown. 20km each way, and shower facilities available. no point in hanging around in that instance, putting the foot down and showering would be noticeably quicker than going at a pace which negated the need for a shower.

My wife is considering commuting with me if she gets an e-bike. I'm not sure how I feel about that personally tbh, but it's encouraging for the general population!

Wishbone Ash

Jonesy101 wrote: »

A lot of commuters think its a race to get to work and how to over take as many people as possible on the way. I cycle to work at a leisurely pace all year....

Strange comment from someone who started another thread about a slow rider on group spins. Many like to commute at a faster rate as they're usually solo and can dictate the pace - something that's not always possible on a group ride. Commuting also allows training opportunities for those who time is restricted due to other commitments.

MojoMaker

Very slight diversion here. Anyone aware of any e-road bikes available for perusal in Ireland? The e-bikes I see out and about seem to be universally hybrid or Dutch style. I think there are road versions, just not sure if shops in the country have got onboard yet.

I recall a kickstarter initiative at the outset of this year from a California based outfit looking to bring out a range of singlespeed and road frames in a variety of suitably sunny colours. Bit wary of these initiatives since SpeedX though.

Fighting Tao

MojoMaker wrote: »

Very slight diversion here. Anyone aware of any e-road bikes available for perusal in Ireland? The e-bikes I see out and about seem to be universally hybrid or Dutch style. I think there are road versions, just not sure if shops in the country have got onboard yet.

I recall a kickstarter initiative at the outset of this year from a California based outfit looking to bring out a range of singlespeed and road frames in a variety of suitably sunny colours. Bit wary of these initiatives since SpeedX though.

A mate of mine bought one from Harry’s in Clonskeagh. I don’t know if they have any on display now though seeing most shops are short of bikes.

MojoMaker

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

My opinion is in relation to what I deem to be a push toward e-bikes as a more environmentally friendly commuting option.

Before I state my opinion I would like to highlight that I do think ebikes are fantastic option under certain circumstances (older adults who can no longer ride as much as they used to on a push bikes, people with certain physical limitations etc which make push bikes unfeasible and I'm sure there are many other excellent uses of e bikes).

For any healthy adult though why not push for regular bikes. Most people who would consider cycling to work don't commute massive distances and a large majority of the population could use all the extra activity they can get (I know e bikes require some effort but still less than a regular bike). The electricity needed to charge ebikes is still generated via fossil fuels, so while they are not directly spewing out emissions they are indirectly contributing. Finally, e bikes don't solve any of the more genuine issues with commuting such as poor weather, dangerous driver etc.

Just saw you were owned by an e-bike on the commute and didn't like it

Jerrykay6

MojoMaker wrote: »

Just saw you were owned by an e-bike on the commute and didn't like it

Owned by an e bike?

For one I breezed past him the minute i put in a bit of effort.

Even if I did (which I didn't) that would be similar to saying i got owned by a car while I was out cycling today, ridiculous.

Jonesy101

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Strange comment from someone who started another thread about a slow rider on group spins. Many like to commute at a faster rate as they're usually solo and can dictate the pace - something that's not always possible on a group ride. Commuting also allows training opportunities for those who time is restricted due to other commitments.

one can cycle to work and not want to sweat and also want to cycle for exercise on the weekend fast. not strange at all

Macy0161

I'm remote now, but I was starting to look at ebike options, pre-covid. I'm too far, and under too much time pressure family wise to do a full commute from home. Uphill, into a prevailing head wind the whole way home. When I was cycle commuting, I was parking up and cycling in. I reckon an ebike would eliminate that. My only question would be how to integrate it with training, but the limit would probably take care of that (and probably power meter pedals).

Anyway, I'm hoping remote working will be a large part of my working life now going forward, so probably a bit moot.

Wishbone Ash

Jonesy101 wrote: »

one can cycle to work and not want to sweat and also want to cycle for exercise on the weekend fast. not strange at all

You've missed my point.

You may wish to cycle to work slowly, but why not accept that others may wish to go more quickly. Those riders may wish to take their time at weekends.

Judging by your attitude in this thread and your other one, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder

homer911

KevRossi wrote: »

I got an E-Bike for work. I was living in the north city centre and working 14 km away in Sandyford, so a nice steep climb at the end.

I'll say Hi next time I see you - I do the exact opposite commute - Sandyford to Parnell Street!:), on an ebike

Padre_Pio

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

For any healthy adult though why not push for regular bikes.

It's better that someone is on a bicycle than not on a bicycle.
We can worry about the type of bicycle when everyone is on them.

Jerrykay6

Deleted User wrote: »

Judging by your attitude in this thread and your other one, you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder

How do I have a chip on my shoulder? I'm not the one out starting races with people while I'm on a feckin motorised vehicle.

byrnem31

This is like when I drove motorcycles. The harely drivers vs everyone else on bikes. A sub group within a sub group.
I don't want cages on the road so if some person wants an ebike and they are 20 stone, let them.
A guy I know has 2 bikes. An ebike for commuting tallaght to blach that at our age would be a struggle in the winter. Then he has a standard racer for fitness. Both work for him doing different things.

Jerrykay6

byrnem31 wrote: »

This is like when I drove motorcycles. The harely drivers vs everyone else on bikes. A sub group within a sub group.
I don't want cages on the road so if some person wants an ebike and they are 20 stone, let them.
A guy I know has 2 bikes. An ebike for commuting tallaght to blach that at our age would be a struggle in the winter. Then he has a standard racer for fitness. Both work for him doing different things.

Not everyone can afford 2 bikes. You're talking 1500 for an e bike and probably 3k (or more) for a decent road bike.

Jerrykay6

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

How do I have a chip on my shoulder? I'm not the one out starting races with people while I'm on a feckin motorised vehicle.

It was only a race in your head, which you took insult to as he passed you out, like I said, a serious chip

byrnem31

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Not everyone can afford 2 bikes. You're talking 1500 for an e bike and probably 3k (or more) for a decent road bike.

I've had decent road bikes for 80 quid. Just fixed them up and they flew along. Not all road bikes are 3k.

Kander

I've cycled my commute as much as I could for the last 15 years. From anywhere as far as 4km to 40 km each way.

My current commute is 36km round trip (pre-covid) and I can easily make it under my own power. I did however just get an ebike because it will make my life easier. No need to shower on hot days and I can carry more weight if I want to pick up shopping.

I use about 400watt in total maximum and that's with finishing uphill at either side. Today Ireland is generating 70% of it's power from wind, yes it might be less on some days but in the future as we go greener it could be more.

There was probably a bigger carbon footprint from the cereal I had this morning.

As a whole the more the population that can swap to e bikes/scooters/cargo instead of fossil the better for the country. It won't work for everyone but it will work for some and it should be aimed for.

Jerrykay6

Deleted User wrote: »

It was only a race in your head, which you took insult to as he passed you out, like I said, a serious chip

I've probably been cycling longer than you've been alive. Theres no chip on my shoulder however, i'm more than happy to put someone in their place when they want to challenge me.

Jerrykay6

byrnem31 wrote: »

I've had decent road bikes for 80 quid. Just fixed them up and they flew along. Not all road bikes are 3k.

You can get a road bike for feck all but you wouldn't get a decent carbon one for much less than 3k. Even at that they'll probably come with micky mouse brand tyres and wheels which would require an update.

Padre_Pio

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

You can get a road bike for feck all but you wouldn't get a decent carbon one for much less than 3k. Even at that they'll probably come with micky mouse brand tyres and wheels which would require an update.

Who cares about carbon bikes?

Out of the total bicycling population of the country, how many have carbon bikes? How many have bikes worth over €500?

Sweet FA.

It's like trying to convert people to E-cars and selling them on a Porche Taycan:rolleyes: