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Would an EV work for me?

  • 28-03-2021 1:34pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    It looks like I will need to do a 260km round trip to Dublin twice a week from September. I am currently driving a 06 Mercedes C200. It has been a great car that we have owned almost 10 years but I find it really uncomfortable on long journeys and its getting smelly (fumes getting into cabin not sure how). And it costs over 900 to tax. Tax up in september.

    Our other car is a Q5 2011 that does the family trips and a bit of towing.

    I have the option to spend 10K on another diesel saloon/estate.

    Or use that 10 k to get an EV on PCP. Would prefer it to do that round trip reasonably comfortably.

    Looking at possibilities I will consider
    Kia EV6
    Ioniq5
    Kia ENiro
    ID3 (77 kWh battery)
    ID4

    Volkswagen had competitive interest rates but other than that, is there anything else I should look at? preferable <40k.
    Am I missing anything? Am I mad to consider it?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Based on 26k a year mileage roughly 2300eu per annum based on 6.5l per 100km.

    So it's defo a runner as over 6 years assuming a full pcp pay off that would be 14k in fuel minus the cost of electricity which is not free but currently much less.

    Ignoring tax the capital cost of the car is by far the biggest cost so a 38k ev is expensive but in your case likely a good purchase if you can afford it.

    Id4 is a great contender but ioniq 5 and ev6 also nice but not yet available.

    Id4 can tow so a possible replacement for q5 as well depending allowing for. Smaller 2nd car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    fits wrote: »
    It looks like I will need to do a 260km round trip to Dublin twice a week from September. I am currently driving a 06 Mercedes C200. It has been a great car that we have owned almost 10 years but I find it really uncomfortable on long journeys and its getting smelly (fumes getting into cabin not sure how). And it costs over 900 to tax. Tax up in september.

    Our other car is a Q5 2011 that does the family trips and a bit of towing.

    I have the option to spend 10K on another diesel saloon/estate.

    Or use that 10 k to get an EV on PCP. Would prefer it to do that round trip reasonably comfortably.

    Looking at possibilities I will consider
    Kia EV6
    Ioniq5
    Kia ENiro
    ID3 (77 kWh battery)
    ID4

    Volkswagen had competitive interest rates but other than that, is there anything else I should look at? preferable <40k.
    Am I missing anything? Am I mad to consider it?

    The id3 77 Kwh is 4 seater only.

    Ioniq 5 first batch of cars will be project 45 or something like that and they will cost an estimated 55K or even slightly more but no official prices yet.

    ID3 is poxy inside and everything is done from a screen from temp adjust to heated seats and much more, it's chaotic and irritating in my opinion, the id4 will be the same, maybe they'll sort it out in time but I don't think I could live with that level of irritability on the road.

    E-Niro good sensible car, decent size, real buttons makes it a lot easier to use. I think bang for buck it's probably one of the best out there at the minute.

    Of all the cars listed the e-niro will charge the slowest, id3 and id4 charge faster but without doubt the ioniq 5 will be the best of the lot but unfortunately Ireland has an extremely bad high power DC charging Network, most chargers you'll find will be 50 Kw so an ioniq 5 for instance will only have a handful of chargers in Ireland capable of charging it at full power for some time to come as the speed of role out of high power chargers is slow to not happening at all.

    Next is down to cost, depending on your yearly mileage PCP might not be viable but for those doing little mileage PCP is a fantastic way to buy cars but the higher the mileage the less attractive pcp is, basically if a car is too expensive to buy via regular means then don't do it on PCP because at the end you will have to pay that balloon or refinance and if you refinance you might not be able to get it at the interest rate you got the pcp in the beginning.

    The id4 is very expensive and the eniro includes speck like lane assist that is only available on the higher spec id4 at around 56K Euros called traffic assist. Later versions might be able to select it as an option, I think this can be selected now as option for the id.3.

    You'll see 1000 different thoughts and opinions here so best to test drive a couple of cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Lantus wrote: »
    Based on 26k a year mileage roughly 2300eu per annum based on 6.5l per 100km.

    So it's defo a runner as over 6 years assuming a full pcp pay off that would be 14k in fuel minus the cost of electricity which is not free but currently much less.

    Ignoring tax the capital cost of the car is by far the biggest cost so a 38k ev is expensive but in your case likely a good purchase if you can afford it.

    Id4 is a great contender but ioniq 5 and ev6 also nice but not yet available.

    Id4 can tow so a possible replacement for q5 as well depending allowing for. Smaller 2nd car.


    No electric car would tow what we tow :D The Q5 stays until it dies.

    The ID 4 can tow 1000 kg braked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Next is down to cost, depending on your yearly mileage PCP might not be viable but for those doing little mileage PCP is a fantastic way to buy cars but the higher the mileage the less attractive pcp is, basically if a car is too expensive to buy via regular means then don't do it on PCP because at the end you will have to pay that balloon or refinance and if you refinance you might not be able to get it at the interest rate you got the pcp in the beginning.


    Yearly kilometerage could be 25000 km - would that be too much for PCP?
    Its hard to predict at the moment though how things will be travelling wise.

    I've never financed a car like this before so have no idea. Just hate the thoughts of another diesel and all the emissions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    fits wrote: »
    Yearly kilometerage could be 25000 km - would that be too much for PCP?
    Its hard to predict at the moment though how things will be travelling wise.

    I've never financed a car like this before so have no idea. Just hate the thoughts of another diesel and all the emissions.

    Some dealers won't offer PCP at that mileage, some will, whether it's worth it or not is up to you and what you want to do in 3 years.

    With PCP you are paying deposit + the calculated depreciation to drive the car over 3 years and the said mileage which in your case could be 75,000 kms at the end, so if it depreciates more you pay more per month, if it depreciates less you pay less.

    This means that over the 3 years you will have much less balloon payment at the end than someone who drives 12,000 kms a year and in this case they're much less likely to want to pay that balloon to own the car which in your case might be 15-18k Euros vs 22-25K for someone driving 12,000 a year ( estimated at a cost of 40K ) for example and that's much more of a stick to make them think twice, so they might get another PCP and put that money towards a new car but they're kicking the can down the road because eventually that balloon needs to be paid off, you're endlessly paying for cars which is why I said earlier, if one can't afford to pay for a car by regular means then they shouldn't use PCP as a way to pay for a car in case they struggle at the end of the PCP they will have to refinance that car if they can't afford to pay the balloon or want/afford to pay for another 3 years. This refinance interest could be expensive.

    Few dealers are able to explain how PCP works, I've seen articles in newspapers thrashing PCP not having a clue how it works at all. Once you get your head around how it works it's really very simple.

    You have to sit down and work out the finances and the total cost to buy the car should you choose to own it at the end and base this on other financing options. The total cost to buy including deposit is what matters. Don't look too closly at monthly figures because that balloon again has to be factored in so when calculating pcp it's the deposit + monthly payments + the Balloon at the end called the GFMV. With regular finance you add the deposit + monthly payments.

    Low mileage drivers can get a much more expensive cars for probably what you and I would pay for much cheaper cars because our mileage is a killer on finances lol.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    fits wrote: »
    Yearly kilometerage could be 25000 km - would that be too much for PCP?
    Its hard to predict at the moment though how things will be travelling wise.

    I've never financed a car like this before so have no idea. Just hate the thoughts of another diesel and all the emissions.

    You need to check but with vw group never a problem usually. 25 isn't huge to what we were all doing a few years ago. Either you get an adjusted equity but if the plan is already to change in 3 years then money is no option right? Otherwise you are paying off and it's yours to max out savings and enjoy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Alternative would be a 2018 well specs diesel superb dsg.

    The spreadsheet will give you the financial insight as to cost of ownership over say 6 and 8 years.

    Depending on loans and interest the ev may be cheaper. As with all cars it's as much desire and passion as hard numbers


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Yeah I’ll have to do some number crunching. Just looking at the e-soul as well. I like the quirkiness of it! Is it as practical as the e-Niro?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Lantus wrote: »
    Alternative would be a 2018 well specs diesel superb dsg.

    The spreadsheet will give you the financial insight as to cost of ownership over say 6 and 8 years.

    Depending on loans and interest the ev may be cheaper. As with all cars it's as much desire and passion as hard numbers


    I know diesel will probably be the better option financially. I just hate the thoughts of it. I don’t think they should be let into cities anymore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    fits wrote: »
    I know diesel will probably be the better option financially. I just hate the thoughts of it. I don’t think they should be let into cities anymore.

    There's plenty prius cars knocking around, at least it's not diesel but the Ev over the long term will save you a lot more money on fuel for the same price of a ICE car but a decent 2nd hand Prius could be got for maybe 25K compared to paying 40 odd K for an EV.

    Check out the id.3 there's a lot more options, I just checked the brochure because I'm looking at the id.3 + E-Niro myself but to be honest not sure I could drive Front Wheel Drive Ev. The id.3 Max has a lot of kit too + I think you can order different seats and fabric that looks a lot less crap than the 1st editions and 1.9% interest too.

    As I said, PCP, you will pay more to drive more, pay less to drive less but you can still save on not paying whatever balloon at then end by getting another pcp.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,755 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    fits wrote: »
    It looks like I will need to do a 260km round trip to Dublin twice a week from September

    Beware many 64kWh cars might struggle to do 300km at full motorway speeds in worst case winter, cold, rain, headwind, so you might need to slow when say outside temperature is below say 5 degrees.

    Slowing might be viable and save the need to stop to charge. If you could charge at destination even on an ordinary plug that might be a handy backup. Typically you might get 400km range so you should be OK with range to spare most of the time. As others gave said try to avoid ever needing to public charge and if going beyond range of car plan where to stop carefully.

    EVs can be much nicer to drive with no gears, active cruise control etc.
    .As others have said you need to actually test drive some cars and check boot and rear seat space and don't believe the range in the brochure.

    If you want to go cheap a Renault Zoe with a big battery may have lower total costs, and if it is a 2 car household the size may be less of an issue. Apparently its quite roomy compared to similar petrol cars. Prices are typically cheap new and used.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    I just cant imagine doing that kind of distance in a tiny car. Have had tiny rentals on continent before (not electric) and they are horrible for long journeys.

    The 130 km each way would be about 30 km country roads and the rest N11 up to UCD. If needed I could take the other car on cold days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    You'd really want the bigger battery nearer 80kwh to cope with all variables and any slight range decrease over time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Lantus wrote: »
    You'd really want the bigger battery nearer 80kwh to cope with all variables and any slight range decrease over time.

    Depends on the efficiency of the car, the E-Niro/E-Soul has better efficiency than for instance the E-Tron, Leaf to name a few.

    I think the e-Niro and possibly e-soul can make 300 Kms without too much difficulty dead of Winter. Would be nice to see them offer maybe 74 Kwh or 80 but I suppose this is where their Ioniq brand comes in. The 5 gets 58 Kwh standard and 72 Kwh top of the range. I'd imagine the 72 Kwh would be good for 350-400 Kms Motorway speeds, just my guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭ innrain


    I'd say any of the Koreans 64kWh would do this trip. Is itching me to prove it with a D-WX-D trip, but hmm.

    Rent one, specially if you didn't drive an EV before. Gocar and UFOdrive they have Konas. They'll cost you about 100 per day. Not necessarily the best out of the three but the driving experience and range would be similar. UCD has chargers on site so you may even get a top-up during the stay there. In the worst case scenario there are 3 fast chargers along the way (no counting Ionity) where a pitstop will ease your range anxiety until you will know your car.
    A better route planner says this trip will use 52.8kWh @20 kWh/100km Still enough left.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,472 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    fits wrote: »
    No electric car would tow what we tow :D The Q5 stays until it dies.

    The ID 4 can tow 1000 kg braked.


    Model X and Etron can tow over 2 tonnes, enough that you need a BE license.




    I'd recomend putting the 10k as a deposit towards a new model 3 Long Raange, you should easily get the long trip with battery to spare. Even in 5 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Model X and Etron can tow over 2 tonnes, enough that you need a BE license.




    I'd recomend putting the 10k as a deposit towards a new model 3 Long Raange, you should easily get the long trip with battery to spare. Even in 5 years.

    lol that's around 60 K or more.

    SR+ should do 300 Kms handy enough, probably more efficient than the e-niro at motorway speeds but smaller batter sadly, the LR got a battery capacity upgrade SR not, shame. 60-65 Kwh m3 SR+ would be great. It's mad that the sr+ can be got for around 35K USD in the US, that's a huge difference compared to here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,472 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    No, SR+ would likely be around 220km-270km motorway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    ELM327 wrote: »
    No, SR+ would likely be around 220km-270km motorway.

    That's a bit ****, id.3 58 Kwh ? even the 77 Kwh is around the price of a 64 Kwh Kona, granted it looses 1 seat in the back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Model X and Etron can tow over 2 tonnes, enough that you need a BE license.




    I'd recomend putting the 10k as a deposit towards a new model 3 Long Raange, you should easily get the long trip with battery to spare. Even in 5 years.

    I have an EB license.

    Audi tows 2.4 tons but I’d prefer something with even higher capacity for towing tbh. Wouldn’t consider a Tesla.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    I’m now considering Non electric cars as well. Volvo have a v60 PHEV that is a Diesel engine. Could save battery usage for urban areas and go on diesel on the country roads and motorways. And I could get one second hand. It’s obviously an inferior option to one of the long range electrics but I don’t really like the idea of committing to car finance and taking the hit on depreciation with a new car. Anyone know anything about that v60?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,472 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    If you're looking at diesel phevs it's hard to look beyond the Audi Etron diesel phev, the mercedes gle phev and even the mercedes e class (e300de) phev. All of which come in diesel


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,448 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    fits wrote: »
    No electric car would tow what we tow

    Eh?

    Electric cars are far better than diesels at towing. Here is a humble MINI electric based on 10 year old EV tech

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    unkel wrote: »
    Eh?

    Electric cars are far better than diesels at towing. Here is a humble MINI electric based on 10 year old EV tech


    Any video of it stopping it?

    Ok find me one that is rated to tow 3.5 tonnes comfortably so.


    ( Ifor Williams 510 loaded with two Irish Draught mares)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If you're looking at diesel phevs it's hard to look beyond the Audi Etron diesel phev, the mercedes gle phev and even the mercedes e class (e300de) phev. All of which come in diesel

    I’ll have a look but suspect they’d all be over budget. Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Having a look at e-niro, v60 and octavia estate early next week. Can buy diesel with cash (15 k). Or electric on HP for the balance. Would probably look for ex demo to take out a bit of depreciation.

    I’ve seen some good templates up here before for comparing costs can anyone point me towards them?

    If would be even close to balancing out over 5 years we will prob go electric ( if car is comfortable and battery would retain decent range for that time)


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    fits wrote: »
    Having a look at e-niro, v60 and octavia estate early next week. Can buy diesel with cash (15 k). Or electric on HP for the balance. Would probably look for ex demo to take out a bit of depreciation.

    I’ve seen some good templates up here before for comparing costs can anyone point me towards them?

    If would be even close to balancing out over 5 years we will prob go electric ( if car is comfortable and battery would retain decent range for that time)

    Have you watched any Bjorn's videos ?

    Just think if you bought something for 15K all you would save on depreciation ? your mileage is a killer, same as mine but yours is a lot worse.

    How much are you spending on Diesel a week ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Have you watched any Bjorn's videos ?

    Just think if you bought something for 15K all you would save on depreciation ? your mileage is a killer, same as mine but yours is a lot worse.

    How much are you spending on Diesel a week ?

    At the moment nothing. Not returning to office until September.

    Did this commute before and was about 120 euro a week just on commute. That was three days. Going to stay up one night this time and cut it to two return journeys. So about 550 km a week of a commute.

    Diesels depreciate too. And fuel cost is only going in one direction under this zero carbon plan.

    I’m doing some calculations and allowing 5k a year depreciation over three years for e Niro . That about right?

    Allowing for 3 k a year depreciation on 15k diesel car. Fuel savings nearly make up the difference.

    I’ve seen some really good workings on here before but can’t find them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,233 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    fits wrote: »
    At the moment nothing. Not returning to office until September.

    Did this commute before and was about 120 euro a week just on commute. That was three days. Going to stay up one night this time and cut it to two return journeys. So about 550 km a week of a commute.

    Diesels depreciate too. And fuel cost is only going in one direction under this zero carbon plan.

    I’m doing some calculations and allowing 5k a year depreciation over three years for e Niro . That about right?

    Allowing for 3 k a year depreciation on 15k diesel car. Fuel savings nearly make up the difference.

    I’ve seen some really good workings on here before but can’t find them.

    Ah so I'm actually driving more than you so, I'm clocking up around 750-850 Kms a week :(

    Diesel can't get too expensive until proper alternatives to ICE exist and EV is some time away from that at this point in time. Recharge times + an appalling Public charging network are huge turn offs + range for many is an issue particularly when you're used to around 800 Kms per tank.

    All cars depreciate, the higher the mileage the more it depreciates.

    550 Kms a week is 26,000 Kms over 48 weeks not including any other mileage so you are just about the Max where PCP works that's another option, less monthly payments but balloon at the end but if you intend to change again then that doesn't matter.

    You also can't compare fuel savings on a 15 K Diesel car because there's no EV at that price to meet your commuting needs without significant amount of time charging at public chargers and that's only if they are not in use then the charge time goes up considerably.

    Wouldn't it be more accurate to compare a 37K E-Niro to a 37 K diesel for instance ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭ fits


    Not really because I absolutely won’t spend 37 k on a diesel so am comparing cost to us. Why do you think I’d need to use public chargers? 260 km is well within range of e-Niro or soul.


    I can take our other car if needed on cold days ( has AWD too).


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