Sorare

finlma

Wondering if there are many Irish people involved in playing Sorare? Would be good if we could develop a bit of a community.

It's a fantasy football game, using crypto-currency (ETH) and the purchase of NFTs. Seems to be a huge growth area of the moment. They received large amounts of funding and the official backing of many of the big clubs around the world.

You'd definitely need a minimum of €300- €500 to start to build a team though. There is potential to start making money back pretty quickly though and there is a good resale market for the NFT cards you buy.

I'm just starting out but I've definitely learned a good bit so far and can advise anyone starting out.


Before signing up though get in touch cause there are few tricks at the start to get some good common cards. You need to get a good goalkeeper in your common cards.

Shanotheslayer

I looked at this about 2 weeks ago. Had trouble depositing so said I'd come back to it.

I think it's got a high ceiling in terms of NFT flipping for money etc

finlma

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I looked at this about 2 weeks ago. Had trouble depositing so said I'd come back to it.

I think it's got a high ceiling in terms of NFT flipping for money etc

Yes, it's tricky getting the ETH to play. Easiest option is to use Ramp even though exchange rates aren't great.

There are only around 9000 players currently so hoping to be one of the early adopters. A unique Ronaldo Sorare card sold for almost €90k last week. Hopefully it will be as successful as NBA One Shot.

If you have a grand you're willing to risk it might be worth it. Always risk attached to these things though.

Shanotheslayer

finlma wrote: »

Yes, it's tricky getting the ETH to play. Easiest option is to use Ramp even though exchange rates aren't great.

There are only around 9000 players currently so hoping to be one of the early adopters. A unique Ronaldo Sorare card sold for almost €90k last week. Hopefully it will be as successful as NBA One Shot.

If you have a grand you're willing to risk it might be worth it. Always risk attached to these things though.

Aye I went through RAMP myself and then realized i missed a verification and got annoyed. I'm heavily involved in the NBA Topshots something similar with NFT's.

There's a sorare discord if you're not aware. Just interesting to see when more teams adapt etc.

finlma

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Aye I went through RAMP myself and then realized i missed a verification and got annoyed. I'm heavily involved in the NBA Topshots something similar with NFT's.

There's a sorare discord if you're not aware. Just interesting to see when more teams adapt etc.

I'm on the Discord. Hope Topshots is going well. The NFT market looks like exploding. I meant Topshot earlier not One Shoot, oops

finlma

Happy to update people on my progress in the game if there's any interest. My first aim was to get 5-7 cards that can start competing in Global All Star Div 4 and start hitting the thresholds to win ETH each gameweek. I think I have a team that will start to do that. You can only play 5 cards but I wanted a couple of subs too in case of injury. I ended up getting a defender and 2 midfielders from the J League, a forward from the K League, a defender and midfielder from the Eredivisie. I won't know how they perform until after the international break. It cost around €800 to build the team. There are players building teams for a good bit less than that but I want to try to hit the threshold most weeks. That's as much as I'm willing to put in. I could sell all the cards today for the same price roughly.

As I signed up with a referral I was gifted a rare card after buying 5 cards by auction. I got a rare Nani card. They are currently selling on the market for around €350 so I'm pretty happy with that.

My initial €800 is now worth over €1000 if I was to sell all my cards and leave the game.

Happy to answer any questions.

This might be better suited to the gambling forum ?

finlma

Deleted User wrote: »

This might be better suited to the gambling forum ?

It's a fantasy sports game though. It involves the purchase of cards to play. Lots of people playing fantasy sports with money involved.

slimshady007

How reliable or trustworthy is this? It sounds a bit like the Football Index game which has gone belly up recently I think.

finlma

slimshady007 wrote: »

How reliable or trustworthy is this? It sounds a bit like the Football Index game which has gone belly up recently I think.

How reliable or trustworthy is anything? Our banking system collapsed a few years ago.

It's played using crypto currency so there is obviously a certain amount of risk or faith in the underlying currency Ethereum. There has been a significant investment in the product recently by investors and footballers (Rio Fredinand, Antoine Griezmann, etc). Article here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/benchmark-leads-50-million-investment-in-digital-firm-sorare

A Ronaldo card recently sold for €85000. https://cryptobriefing.com/unique-cristiano-ronaldo-nft-sells-290000-sorare/

The cards are unique and rare and that is where the value lies. They are digital collectable items or non-fungible tokens (NFTs) that can be played in games. There is massive interested in these at the moment.

There are other games coming online where Sorare cards can be used so the cards have value beyond the platform. Ubisoft have launched a game called One Shot based on Sorare cards.

I've played plenty of fantasy sports games and I'm enjoying this more than any of them. I'm only putting in money that I'm happy to risk.

Muahahaha

finlma wrote: »

A Ronaldo card recently sold for €85000. https://cryptobriefing.com/unique-cristiano-ronaldo-nft-sells-290000-sorare/

The cards are unique and rare and that is where the value lies. They are digital collectable items or non-fungible tokens (NFTs) that can be played in games. There is massive interested in these at the moment.

Not being smart but this has a bang of Tulip Mania about it. I know the NFT market is a real thing for digital artists to authenticate and verify their works though blockchain but how does a digital card of Ronaldo have a value of 85,000? Did Ronaldo himself authenticate it? And has he contracted not to authenticate more of them thus devaluing the price of the first one?

On the face of it it could be a pump and dump, a group of initial users band together to dramatically inflate the value of these digital cards to attract more gamblers and money and eventually they cant attract any more fresh money so liquidity disappears and the market collapses. Who regulates it?

finlma

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not being smart but this has a bang of Tulip Mania about it. I know the NFT market is a real thing for digital artists to authenticate and verify their works though blockchain but how does a digital card of Ronaldo have a value of 85,000? Did Ronaldo himself authenticate it? And has he contracted not to authenticate more of them thus devaluing the price of the first one?

On the face of it it could be a pump and dump, a group of initial users band together to dramatically inflate the value of these digital cards to attract more gamblers and money and eventually they cant attract any more fresh money so liquidity disappears and the market collapses. Who regulates it?

All valid points. The authentication comes through the clubs. So Ronaldo card is through the license that Juventus have with Sorare.

Shanotheslayer

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not being smart but this has a bang of Tulip Mania about it. I know the NFT market is a real thing for digital artists to authenticate and verify their works though blockchain but how does a digital card of Ronaldo have a value of 85,000? Did Ronaldo himself authenticate it? And has he contracted not to authenticate more of them thus devaluing the price of the first one?

On the face of it it could be a pump and dump, a group of initial users band together to dramatically inflate the value of these digital cards to attract more gamblers and money and eventually they cant attract any more fresh money so liquidity disappears and the market collapses. Who regulates it?

I'm pretty sure for Sorare they have approval hense why they only have selected players and not every single player. Although I definitely open to correction on that.
Similar to NBA Topshots, what's the difference between me creating one and minting it? Well I'm not NBA so the value will be significantly different.

Edit: Yeh Finfla confirmed what I thought.

kilburn

I think this is similar to NBA Hot Shot NFT cards but with crypto instead of cash ?

nullObjects

finlma wrote: »

How reliable or trustworthy is anything? Our banking system collapsed a few years ago.

It's played using crypto currency so there is obviously a certain amount of risk or faith in the underlying currency Ethereum. There has been a significant investment in the product recently by investors and footballers (Rio Fredinand, Antoine Griezmann, etc). Article here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-25/benchmark-leads-50-million-investment-in-digital-firm-sorare

I don't mean to sound coarse but in your example people didn't lose their deposits in the banks. Who regulates this crowd?

Their terms only stipulate that whatever happens they'd like it to go through the French courts and you should send an email to an address that's part of their domain if there's any dispute:
https://sorare.com/terms_and_conditions

13.2 – Dispute and Mediation
13.2.1 In the event of a dispute arise between the Service and a User, the latter undertakes to inform the Customer Service Department at the following address: contact@sorare.com taking care to specify his contact details and to provide any information allowing to appreciate the origin and the implications of the dispute.

13.2.2 Consumers have the possibility to call an independent Ombudsman for free by sending a request to this effect, by email, to the address contact@sorare.com or by mail addressed to Sorare- 5, avenue du Général-de-Gaulle 94160 SAINT-MANDE. Upon receipt, the Service undertakes to organize a mediation as soon as possible.

13.2.3 The User can also contact the online dispute resolution service of the European Commission at the following address: https://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr.

13.3 – Jurisdiction
In case of dispute, the Consumer may seize the competent jurisdiction with territorial jurisdiction under the law. In the event of no mandatory jurisdiction by the law, only the courts of the jurisdiction of the Court of Appeal of Paris will be competent.

Are you involved with them other than having the affiliate link you posted?

Shanotheslayer

kilburn wrote: »

I think this is similar to NBA Hot Shot NFT cards but with crypto instead of cash ?

You can still use cash as well I believe.

CSF

finlma wrote: »

How reliable or trustworthy is anything?

This is about the most worrying response anyone could have given to that question.

Muahahaha

finlma wrote: »

All valid points. The authentication comes through the clubs. So Ronaldo card is through the license that Juventus have with Sorare.

Ok right, well at least it has some sort of official contract with Ronaldo/Juventus to reproduce his image on digital cards.

Id still thread carefully though, the NFT market is a relatively new one which means it is going to be very attractive for groups of fraudsters to set up pyramid schemes. Not say this is the case here but just that it is likely to be the case with some of these markets and with loose regulation people will get financially burnt.

Even with this one the devil will be in the detail, eg can Sonare make more cards of Ronaldo, do their own rules let them do that, etc. Im not willing to read through a lengthy T&Cs document to find out but anyone risking their money here should be doing their due diligence and finding out the exact mechanisms of the system.

finlma

nullObjects wrote: »

Are you involved with them other than having the affiliate link you posted?

No affiliation whatsoever. I'm just playing a fantasy football that I enjoy and was checking if there's an Irish community or maybe to see if people are interested in developing.

I understand all the risk that I'm taking on and don't expect the same level of regulation I'd get with banking. It's not my life savings. I'll try to grow my team from the money I've invested. If it goes belly up I can have no complaints.

Top Shots is a similar platform and that has been hugely successful.

finlma

Muahahaha wrote: »

Im not willing to read through a lengthy T&Cs document to find out but anyone risking their money here should be doing their due diligence and finding out the exact mechanisms of the system.

I completely agree with that.

finlma

CSF wrote: »

This is about the most worrying response anyone could have given to that question.

Why? Life is full of risk. I could have put my money into a low rate savings account and watch it gain a few cent a year. Instead I'm putting in a few hundred euro that I'm prepared to lose but I enjoy the game. It's far superior to regular fantasy football in terms of game play. If I use research, data and football knowledge I stand to make a few quid potentially.

I got a free card this morning that I can sell right now for €300.

CSF

finlma wrote: »

Why? Life is full of risk. I could have put my money into a low rate savings account and watch it gain a few cent a year. Instead I'm putting in a few hundred euro that I'm prepared to lose but I enjoy the game. It's far superior to regular fantasy football in terms of game play. If I use research, data and football knowledge I stand to make a few quid potentially.

I got a free card this morning that I can sell right now for €300.

Could you make that same argument to people who’ve just lost a big sum of money on that dodgy Football Index stuff?

Shanotheslayer

CSF wrote: »

Could you make that same argument to people who’ve just lost a big sum of money on that dodgy Football Index stuff?

The difference is NFT's are something you own and can resell on multiple websites.

Football indexing was betting on a player being good and going up in value on a particular website.

finlma

finlma wrote: »

It's a fantasy sports game though. It involves the purchase of cards to play. Lots of people playing fantasy sports with money involved.

No comparison whatsoever.

They are millions of people playing FPL with not one penny at stake.

This is a form of gambling.

Shanotheslayer

Deleted User wrote: »

No comparison whatsoever.

They are millions of people playing FPL with not one penny at stake.

This is a form of gambling.

You can play this game for free. You get free starter packs and from there you can build your team up by entering in free leagues. Likelihood is you won't win because somebody else has a paid team.

It's a pay to win game. You buy cards you have a higher chance of winning.

I also feel you're contradicting yourself. FPL is a form of gambling if you're in money leagues. The volume is irrelevant

I wouldn't really consider this 'game' gambling. It's a pay to win game. Buy the best players and hope they perform. The gamble is more so their performance

The gambling is only if you're in it for flipping for profit.

finlma

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They are millions of people playing FPL with not one penny at stake.

This is a form of gambling.

It's not though. That's like saying Fifa and other games where people make purchases are gambling.

I played FPL since the beginning and was always involved in a money league. The game play, scoring and rewards in FPL are rubbish. Sorare is far superior for all 3.

hawaii501

Would it be like buying players on FIFA ultimate team to make your team better/compete except you can actually sell the player for a profit if you're lucky enough?

Do you play games to win ETH then or do you have to pay to play the matches?

finlma

hawaii501 wrote: »

Would it be like buying players on FIFA ultimate team to make your team better/compete except you can actually sell the player for a profit if you're lucky enough?

Do you play games to win ETH then or do you have to pay to play the matches?

I've never played FIFA Ultimate but have heard that comparison from other users. The cards themselves are NTFs and identifiable on blockchain for being unique.

You build a team or teams of 5 (GK, 1 Def, 1 Mid, 1 FWD + one other outfielder) and enter them into a variety of leagues. Most people start to build a team to enter into Global All Star Division 4. You can play cards from any league in the world (that are on Sorare). The top few places win cards and larger sums of ETH but this is the only division where everyone can win ETH for hitting a points threshold. If you get more than 250 points you win 0.02 ETH (approx €30). If you get more than 205 points you win 0.01 ETH (approx €15). Some weeks there are 2 game weeks so you could win 0.04 ETH in a week. In the last game week more than 45% of teams hit the threshold to win at least 0.1 ETH so it's very doable. You can cash out the ETH or use it to build your gallery of cards. The cards get points based on their scores from Opta.

There is no charge to enter the leagues once you have the cards.

There are other leagues where you can play extra rare or unique cards and also divisions where only players from certain regions can play (e.g. Champion Asia league). There is also an Under 23 competition.

The biggest issue in the game is the lack of rare goalkeeper cards so they go for a good bit. When you start the game you get common cards so it is important to get goalkeepers here. If you're thinking of starting up send me a private message and I'll share some hints and tips.

jimmii

If there's no fees for leagues is the main revenue source auctioning off new players? Seems if things were a but rough financially they could just flood the market with players no?

finlma

jimmii wrote: »

If there's no fees for leagues is the main revenue source auctioning off new players? Seems if things were a but rough financially they could just flood the market with players no?

The levels on the cards are set. Unique - 1 every year. Super rare - 10 every year. Rare - 100 every year.

They are talking about another level which would allow more people to enter the game and work their way up. No details on that yet.

They're announcing licencing with new clubs every week. Galatasary this week and another club being announced tomorrow.

Just looking through some of the rules sections -

Article 3 – Duration

The Game is offered for an unlimited period of time but may be stopped by the Organizer at any time and without notice once all announced Tournaments have ended.

The number and frequency of Tournaments is at the discretion of the Organizer. In any event, the opening of a Tournament is announced to the public at least one month before it starts in the “Game Arena” section of the Website.

Article 5 – Winners’ selection

Article 5.1 – Exclusion and fraud

THE ORGANIZER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO EXCLUDE ANY PARTICIPANT WHO DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE RULES OR WHOSE BEHAVIOUR COULD BE CONSIDERED FRAUDULENT.

ANY VIOLATION OF THESE RULES BY ANY WINNER WILL RESULT IN SUCH WINNER'S DISQUALIFICATION AS WINNER OF THE TOURNAMENT AND ALL PRIVILEGES AS WINNER WILL BE IMMEDIATELY TERMINATED.

Article 9 – Liability

Article 9.1 – Limitation of liability

The Organizer shall be under a best efforts obligation on all its obligations with regard to the operation of the Game.

In any event, his liability shall not be incurred beyond the loss of the Participant's chance to win.

Article 9.2 – Exclusion of liability

The Organizer may not be held liable in the case of force majeure or fault or negligence of the Participant, especially regarding the Collectible or prize loss.

Force majeure refers to the notion of Article 1218 of the French Civil Code and to the interpretation given by the French courts. It is expressly agreed that a failure of a blockchain protocol or technology (e. g. Ethereum or Wallet) will be considered as a case of force majeure.

Article 11 – Amendment

Modification and/or interruption of the Service – The Organizer reserves the right to modify or stop the accessibility of all or part of the service and/or the Website or Applications at any time.

Modification and/or interruption of the Game Rules – The Organizer reserves the right to modify, at any time, all or part of the Rules. By participating to the Game, Participants accept the Rules amendment. The applicable version of the Rules is the latest version published on the date of use of the services offered by the Organizer.

finlma

Ok, thanks for that. A link to the rules would probably have covered it.

Anyone wondering it's available here: https://sorare.com/game_rules

I didn't come here for a discussion on the rules. People can carry out their own due diligence and make their own decisions.

I'm still available for information if any wants it and I can report back here on my progress from time to time. I'm enjoying it far more than FPL where everyone plays virtually the same team every week and the one winner in millions gets a trip to a PL game.

Yeah but it’s a game we can play, at no direct financial cost, and still enjoy weekly.

There’s also a draft version that means you can own players that nobody else can own which I think is a better version of the game.

And it doesn’t involve gambling.

shineon23

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah but it’s a game we can play, at no direct financial cost, and still enjoy weekly.

There’s also a draft version that means you can own players that nobody else can own which I think is a better version of the game.

And it doesn’t involve gambling.

Now there's been a few outlandish things on this thread, but that takes the biscuit.

How can anyone claim to enjoy FPL each week!? :p

finlma

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah but it’s a game we can play, at no direct financial cost, and still enjoy weekly.

There’s also a draft version that means you can own players that nobody else can own which I think is a better version of the game.

And it doesn’t involve gambling.

I play draft on Fantrax and I agree that it's far superior to FPL. I do play for money with friends, as I'm sure do most people. Makes it more interesting.

Sorare involves paying for cards to play a fantasy football game. You may consider it gambling. Having a thread on it in a fantasy sports game however should not be an issue.

You might stop hijacking the thread so that anyone with an interest can talk about it.

FutureGuy

MOD: I’m going to close this and remove the affiliate link posted.

I’ll be chatting with the mod team ti see if Sorare belongs in FSA.

I also play it but it may sit elsewhere on boards.