LUXOBARGE (sub5k) of the week/day, part 2

biko

Last thread reached 10k posts which is the limit.

KevRossi

New NCT to 04/22 on this S320 CDi for €2,900. I like the lighter interiors on these.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-s-class-2005-diesel-nct-04-22/27522087

Mickiemcfist

Was the rear of that parked by the fire to dry off or something?

Eric Cartman

pretty heavily loaded and the last year of the 220, not a bad pick for half the money 221's of a similar spec go for.

Duke O Smiley

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2003-bmw-730-se-dsl/27067783



Two grand price drop on this pre-facelift 730d with 69k miles, now €3950

This could potentially be a nice car depending on the level of care the owner has taken with it since 2008.

Another one here:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-730d/27531551



Hard to judge spec from such a poor ad but it has comfort seats at least.

Claiming FSH and 4 new continental tyres, €3250. Theres something charming about the pre-facelift 7s now IMO.

bazz26

Nice Lexus GS450h:



https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hybrid-low-mileage-service-history-new-nct/27442792

Worth 5k though?

trellheim

Has adaptive cruise which was rarely seen, a real Tiger car, would go back to it in a heartbeat, I drove a black one and miss it terribly , high road tax as considered 3.5 petrol before 2008, they were Govt ministers cars in the past

bazz26

It does look clean alright. Most of them these days are high milers that have gotten abused over the years with really tatty interiors. A nicer car than the model that succeeded it too.

landmarkjohn

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Theres something charming about the pre-facelift 7s now IMO.

I think they will become the sought after classic.

Eric Cartman

landmarkjohn wrote: »

I think they will become the sought after classic.

I doubt it, very hard to keep compared to the facelift, it resolved a load of issues.

landmarkjohn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I doubt it, very hard to keep compared to the facelift, it resolved a load of issues.

Ah, I see. I was only going on aesthetics.

Duke O Smiley

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I doubt it, very hard to keep compared to the facelift, it resolved a load of issues.

I think irrespective of reliability and technological advancements of the facelift cars etc the earlier examples will be the ones collectors will want in a few years time.

trellheim

It does look clean alright. Most of them these days are high milers that have gotten abused over the years with really tatty interiors. A nicer car than the model that succeeded it too.

no more GS450h being made any more and nothing decent to go for except back up to the LC500 and theres v of them around

Trojan

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

I think irrespective of reliability and technological advancements of the facelift cars etc the earlier examples will be the ones collectors will want in a few years time.

Interesting. Someone buying for daily driver rather than collecting might be looking for the latest car off the assembly line, e.g. a "2004" reg E39. (Although in that case the earlier M52 vs M54 is superior).

I agree with the earlier comments about maybe changing the budget range. Not a lot of luxobarge at the sub-5k mark right now.

v240gltse

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2003-bmw-730-se-dsl/27067783



Two grand price drop on this pre-facelift 730d with 69k miles, now €3950

This could potentially be a nice car depending on the level of care the owner has taken with it since 2008.

< RANT ON>

WHAT IS WRONG with people and their inability to take decent photos of cars they are trying to sell. Jesus ads like that just make me dizzy and I feel the seller cant be arsed to get decent one taken

< RANT OFF>

traco

I just got dizzy looking at that

Padre_Pio

Donedeal should give people a standard template.

At a minimum there should be an angled picture of the car's best side, then picture of every side straight on. Picture of engine, interior, dash, driver seat, wheels, steering wheel.

All taken in full daylight, with a clean car.

colm_mcm

They could definitely do something with an app that shows the outline of the car and you match the camera angle up.

Voodoomelon

We never really chat in this thread about the way things are going in regards bigger, older, typically petrol barges and their values. How do we see things progressing? If you had a shed that could fit 10 cars in it, what would youd be buying right now at knock down prices?

Do you see typical early to mid 2000s barges being worth more in 10 years time? We're already seeing it with V12s for sure, but i'd wonder how much an 2005 S500 or 750i would be worth in 10 years once the EV revolution is further down the track?

Seeing as traditional investments like the stock market nets you approx 12% on an annual basis, ETFs a touch higher, do you reckon you could double your money in 10 years on a V8 barge?

Or even better, can you treble or quadruple it in 20 years?

traco

Voodoomelon wrote: »

We never really chat in this thread about the way things are going in regards bigger, older, typically petrol barges and their values. How do we see things progressing? If you had a shed that could fit 10 cars in it, what would youd be buying right now at knock down prices?

Do you see typical early to mid 2000s barges being worth more in 10 years time? We're already seeing it with V12s for sure, but i'd wonder how much an 2005 S500 or 750i would be worth in 10 years once the EV revolution is further down the track?

Seeing as traditional investments like the stock market nets you approx 12% on an annual basis, ETFs a touch higher, do you reckon you could double your money in 10 years on a V8 barge?

Or even better, can you treble or quadruple it in 20 years?

All good questrions.


I would think we have passed peak ICE more or less. i am sure their will be some gems in the future but they won't be attainable for me.


I have a flat 6, V6, V12 and am looking for a V8. I am also watching for the correct spec cars to buy as parts cars. However for me the enjoyment is in owning and driving them. I don't see them as an investment per se. Maybe I'd get some of my time, parts and purchase price back but that would be just luck.

I can't see a way to make money on them especially if you drive them. The tax alone probably cancels any appreciation. The other downside is that using them you run the risk of the car being written off if smacked by some clown as the repair costs far exceed the OMSP.

I'm struggling with storage at present amd there are a few other cars I'd like to acquire. Sadly the costs in this country make any gain nigh on impossible so I am bascially a fool with an expensive hobby.

I took the decision about 8 years ago that I would drive my daily as long as possible and took out a credit union loan with payments of 300 ish per month. That has been rolled and allowed me to acquire the fleet I have today. Lots of payments still to go but its what most people are paying for a new PCP thing. If I save up a bit extra, I knock it down or oput to the bottomless parts / maintenance bill.

I try an do a lot of the work myself, except on the daily as I'm not that interested aside from more frequent oil and filters changes cos I need it to keep going. It has also meant that I have had to drive the work van on a few occasions when everything that is taxed is in bits. So its a bit of a lifestyle choice and not for everyone.

So - back to the original question. Unless you are a serious collector with climate controlled facilities buying rare stuff then despite the best man maths available you would be lucky to just break even assuming reasonable appreciation of the car.

Mickiemcfist

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Seeing as traditional investments like the stock market nets you approx 12% on an annual basis, ETFs a touch higher, do you reckon you could double your money in 10 years on a V8 barge?

I think if you're consistently getting those returns through the stock market, you should focus on that full time!

Voodoomelon

traco wrote: »

All good questrions.


I would think we have passed peak ICE more or less. i am sure their will be some gems in the future but they won't be attainable for me.


I have a flat 6, V6, V12 and am looking for a V8. I am also watching for the correct spec cars to buy as parts cars. However for me the enjoyment is in owning and driving them. I don't see them as an investment per se. Maybe I'd get some of my time, parts and purchase price back but that would be just luck.

I can't see a way to make money on them especially if you drive them. The tax alone probably cancels any appreciation. The other downside is that using them you run the risk of the car being written off if smacked by some clown as the repair costs far exceed the OMSP.

I'm struggling with storage at present amd there are a few other cars I'd like to acquire. Sadly the costs in this country make any gain nigh on impossible so I am bascially a fool with an expensive hobby.

I took the decision about 8 years ago that I would drive my daily as long as possible and took out a credit union loan with payments of 300 ish per month. That has been rolled and allowed me to acquire the fleet I have today. Lots of payments still to go but its what most people are paying for a new PCP thing. If I save up a bit extra, I knock it down or oput to the bottomless parts / maintenance bill.

I try an do a lot of the work myself, except on the daily as I'm not that interested aside from more frequent oil and filters changes cos I need it to keep going. It has also meant that I have had to drive the work van on a few occasions when everything that is taxed is in bits. So its a bit of a lifestyle choice and not for everyone.

So - back to the original question. Unless you are a serious collector with climate controlled facilities buying rare stuff then despite the best man maths available you would be lucky to just break even assuming reasonable appreciation of the car.

I'm talking purely from a storage point of view, not running the cars on a daily basis. If you were a farmer for example with an empty shed, i'd wonder if you filled it with €30k worth of 6/8 cylinder 5 and 7 series (10 x €3k buys) and sat on it for 10 years, would you have €60k on your hands. I reckon you might well do.

Padre_Pio

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'm talking purely from a storage point of view, not running the cars on a daily basis. If you were a farmer for example with an empty shed, i'd wonder if you filled it with €30k worth of 6/8 cylinder 5 and 7 series (10 x €3k buys) and sat on it for 10 years, would you have €60k on your hands. I reckon you might well do.

Interesting.
So you wanna double your money. Storage costs are nil. You want to get something that's near fully depreciated and in decent nick, which will hopefully have a cult following in maybe 10 years.

Maybe
Z3 and z4
Mx5
Rx8
Mr2

My money would be on something a person would use as a weekend car.
I don't think a 5 or 7 series will get any way appealing in 10 years. Tax aside, they're not that appealing now for the majority. If you go to a classic car show, you're drawn to sporty cars, not bargey cars.

I'd buy the car and spend another 500 euro on parts, brakes, shocks, the usual consumables, and store them in the boot.

Imagine seeing an ad for a classic car that comes with a pile of brand spanking new parts the new owner can have fun fitting.

ohnonotgmail

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'm talking purely from a storage point of view, not running the cars on a daily basis. If you were a farmer for example with an empty shed, i'd wonder if you filled it with €30k worth of 6/8 cylinder 5 and 7 series (10 x €3k buys) and sat on it for 10 years, would you have €60k on your hands. I reckon you might well do.

would you not have to do maintenance during those 10 years? even in a dry shed leaving a car sitting for 10 years won't do it any good.

Padre_Pio

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

would you not have to do maintenance during those 10 years? even in a dry shed leaving a car sitting for 10 years won't do it any good.

There's a few things you could do. Give the car a proper clean and polish, inside and out.
Fresh oils, filters, full tank of petrol with that additive to stop it going off.
Drain the rads, washers etc. Take the wheels off and support it on the jacking points.
Take out the battery,
Put a rag in the exhaust, cover over the car, nice dry airy shed, put a big bag of dessicant inside too.
Keep the mice and moisture away and it should be fine.

Voodoomelon

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Interesting.
So you wanna double your money. Storage costs are nil. You want to get something that's near fully depreciated and in decent nick, which will hopefully have a cult following in maybe 10 years.

Maybe
Z3 and z4
Mx5
Rx8
Mr2

My money would be on something a person would use as a weekend car.
I don't think a 5 or 7 series will get any way appealing in 10 years. Tax aside, they're not that appealing now for the majority. If you go to a classic car show, you're drawn to sporty cars, not bargey cars.

I'd buy the car and spend another 500 euro on parts, brakes, shocks, the usual consumables, and store them in the boot.

Imagine seeing an ad for a classic car that comes with a pile of brand spanking new parts the new owner can have fun fitting.

Yep some nice picks. I think E38s will be worth money for sure. I don't see how a €3k one wouldnt be worth €6k+ in 10 years. You're also well into classic territory then, you can run one for buttons.

I'm also taking into account that the EV revolution will be in full swing, nice ICE barges should be worth more by default. Not a certainty, but a fair gamble.

Padre_Pio

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'm also taking into account that the EV revolution will be in full swing, nice ICE barges should be worth more by default. Not a certainty, but a fair gamble.

Yep, you're looking for real "drivers" cars, so something manual, simple, small, with good power.

Barges aren't really in this category, I think there's better cars to choose from.

Bigus

I think investing in v12s and v8s might not necessarily be the way to go for a couple of reasons.

One issue is the danger of them being taxed off the road due to climate ambitions of greening governments. Certain CO2 outputs may just become unjustifiable like smoky coal.

My other reasoning is that luxury manufacturers were striving and attempting to get turbine smoothness and absolute silence from ICE units.
This elusive quest has been now effectively been met with electric luxury cars.

So my logic is the ice cars that are as far away from electric in the future will be the ones in high demand . I.E. small light roarty sporty stuff with high revving 3 and 4 bangers along with outright sports cars.

As to the Irish market , the Celtic tiger peaked in 2006-08 and you’ll never see luxobarges as cheap here ever again, as they were/are post 2010 secondhand, we had total oversupply and no money to buy them up.
Things were so bad , a huge amount were exported.

So if you haven’t yet , get yourself into a luxobarge now pay the high tax and drive the nuts out of it because it’s time has surely passed.

yamaha4life

https://www.adverts.ie/22969187

Would this be worth a look?
Nearing 250k miles would be concerning to me, Rightly so?

traco

yamaha4life wrote: »

https://www.adverts.ie/22969187

Would this be worth a look?
Nearing 250k miles would be concerning to me, Rightly so?

That was mentioned in the old thread and if I recall belonged to someone on here so may be well worth a look.

Going back to the collection question. I think any car that has was rare, has some unique features could appreciate but the big thing is by how much. I don't agree with the statement that they need to be drivers cars either as there are many tastes out there that providing the car is something special should have a potential buyer.

I took the flat 6 for its NCT yesterday, first time on the road in 6.5 months and it is the polar opposite driving experience of the V12. Its louder, has much more feel etc etc. The contrast is amazing, the V12 has some feel and handles well, due to the ABC system yet at almost 1000kg heavier it isn't something to throw around a track. Yet the power delivery of the Merc is so different compared to the Porsche, that it offers a totally different drivers experience is whats its all about for me.

On the V8 front, I have been watching some of the old W126 or W116 S Class Mercs and while they are making OK money they haven't jumped dramatically unless its a 6.9 or an SEC or something that would have been a rare car in its day. Even those exampes that are making top dollar are pristine low mileage examples.

It also doesn't matter what you buy, how good it is or how good your storage is. The car will need maintenance and servicing as time will take its toll on them. If you were to do it then buying up parts as mentioned would be a must, trying to find new old stock, breakers etc. Not much point in having a pristine example if you can run it because the ECU is knackered or brake module has failed.

I'd like an MX-5 as car to add to the fleet. I also want a V8 but I'm having trouble on picking one as I think it needs to be a CL, SL or 55 AMG estate. Again though I would be buying for a specific package / feel as an owner experince and a car that would have not been all that common in its day.

Makes no difference at the moment as I have no storage or money

Bigus

One of the reasons to buy classics luxobarges was to take the tax advantage of
Driving a big engined powerful car on low tax.
The problem is , old powerful is not new powerful and can often be
Disappointing in reality.
I drove a real good V12 XJS recently and it was truly
Atrocious acceleration, and this was a super good example.
So by the time luxobarges are old they won’t feel special

I also drove a 161 Mercedes S 350 cdi recently that did 0-60 in less than 7 seconds ,did about 50 mpg and the real kicker was it had 390 annual tax.

If the below videos had a later model S class diesel the 6.9 would be left for dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IyLk30H4BE

Padre_Pio

Bigus wrote: »

One of the reasons to buy classics luxobarges was to take the tax advantage of driving a big engined powerful car on low tax.

I thought the benefit was to buy a 80-120k car for less than the cost of a small motorbike :D

Don't understand drag race video, no one ever bought an S-Class because of it's 0-60 times.

filbert the fox

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Donedeal should give people a standard template.

At a minimum there should be an angled picture of the car's best side, then picture of every side straight on. Picture of engine, interior, dash, driver seat, wheels, steering wheel.

All taken in full daylight, with a clean car.

Hey and what about the basics? --- Mileage, Tax cost, number of owners, NCT status and a ban on the following wording:
"first to see will buy...." drives me scatty.

AAAAAAAAnnnnnnndddddddddd don't photograph a car with the suds you just washed off on the ground. Drive it 10metres and have a nice bit of greenery in the background.

traco

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I thought the benefit was to buy a 80-120k car for less than the cost of a small motorbike :D

Don't understand drag race video, no one ever bought an S-Class because of it's 0-60 times.

Yep, very fair point. In its day though the XJS or the 6.9 would have been rockets compared to the average cars on the road at the time. They would also have been much more plush.


All but the most powerful ICE stuff will be slow compared to the run of the mill EV stuff in a few years but will the milk floats have the presence, comfort, ride and quality of materials of a luxobarge? I think not and doubt the will last or still be a conversation piece like the XJS or a 6.9 Merc.

Duke O Smiley

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lincoln-royale-limousine-left-hand-drive/27569230



Is this bargey enough!? Tax and test til August, €4200

Truckermal

My old LS the week I sold it! I got fed up of things going wrong so I bought a Renault instead..:o

TigerTim

Didn't think anything went wrong with Lexus.

T.

Midnight_EG

TigerTim wrote: »

Didn't think anything went wrong with Lexus.

T.

It doesn't, his was just crap :pac:

Truckermal

Midnight_EG wrote: »

It doesn't, his was just crap :pac:

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Top Dog

Truckermal wrote: »

My old LS the week I sold it! I got fed up of things going wrong so I bought a Renault instead..:o

And had the Renault proved more reliable?

newmember2

Truckermal wrote: »

My old LS the week I sold it! I got fed up of things going wrong so I bought a Renault instead..:o

What sort of issues? Did you post them on here?

Normal One

I reckon that the prevalence of screens for everything will affect future values of cars from the last 10 years. What is brilliant technology now might age terribly, assuming they even last 20+ years. I think Bugatti have the right idea in keeping digital displays to a minimum. I also can't imagine an E66 will ever be desirable like an E38 is.

Truckermal

newmember? wrote: »

What sort of issues? Did you post them on here?

Suspension was tired and it was drinking oil even though it had a full Lexus history!

Lurching

Truckermal wrote: »

Suspension was tired and it was drinking oil even though it had a full Lexus history!

Full dealer service history doesn't rule out someone driving the absolute bag out of it.

emergencylime

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Donedeal should give people a standard template.

At a minimum there should be an angled picture of the car's best side, then picture of every side straight on. Picture of engine, interior, dash, driver seat, wheels, steering wheel.

All taken in full daylight, with a clean car.

The Turo (airbnb for cars) App has car angle outlines when you’re taking the photos at the time of collecting the car, so it wouldn’t be impossible to add.

Does the DoneDeal ad uploading have an option to rotate?

My mini-rant is an ad with 37 Matrix-style photos of the outside but none of the interior.

Lurching

emergencylime wrote: »

Does the DoneDeal ad uploading have an option to rotate?

It does. It's super easy.

cadaliac

Truckermal wrote: »

Suspension was tired and it was drinking oil even though it had a full Lexus history!

Sorry Truckermal - can you elaborate ? I would be very interested to know as I was seriously considering one but won't if they are not reliable.
The Suspension getting tired worries me.
I completely understand if you don't want to go into detail.

Midnight_EG

cadaliac wrote: »

Sorry Truckermal - can you elaborate ? I would be very interested to know as I was seriously considering one but won't if they are not reliable.
The Suspension getting tired worries me.
I completely understand if you don't want to go into detail.

It's common for the standard air suspension to fail after so many years and they're expensive to fix, but you can buy normal coil on spring for them to replace it. The oil consumption is generally a rocker gasket failing, as is also common. My own, in the last year with a dodgy rocker gasket has used maybe 2l of oil but that's it.

Lurching

Rocker gaskets can't be overly expensive to replace with an independent garage, surely?

Midnight_EG

Lurching wrote: »

Rocker gaskets can't be overly expensive to replace with an independent garage, surely?

They're not simple to replace, I've done mine and took about 3 hours

newmember2

Midnight_EG wrote: »

It's common for the standard air suspension to fail after so many years and they're expensive to fix, but you can buy normal coil on spring for them to replace it. The oil consumption is generally a rocker gasket failing, as is also common. My own, in the last year with a dodgy rocker gasket has used maybe 2l of oil but that's it.

How does a rocker gasket issue lead to oil consumption? A bad leak?? I'd hardly sell a car over a leaking rocker cover gasket - surely it was burning oil.