Harry and Meghan - OP updated with Threadbanned Users 4/5/21

Sardonicat

Ckendrick wrote: »

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the Duchess of Cambridge doesn’t work hard at her job. That she hasn’t displayed perseverance skill or dedication. Can you give me examples of how you’ve come to this odd conclusion?

What is her "job"? Day to day, what does she do that you define as work?

walshb

Sardonicat wrote: »

What is her "job"? Day to day, what does she do that you define as work?

They don’t have regular jobs like the ordinary persons..

That doesn’t mean they do not work, contribute, participate in the work of society..

This should not need to be pointed out.

Ckendrick

Sardonicat wrote: »

What is her "job"? Day to day, what does she do that you define as work?

So, mothers of 3 children don’t do any work you say? That’s an interesting take in 2021.
You do realise that she has a full schedule of royal engagements that she has to meet in her role as the patron of 20 different charities under the umbrella of a foundation she and he set up in 2011?
The same as everyone else she’s had to attend to most of these engagements over the last year via zoom, but she did attend.
I know in your imagination she’s sitting on a throne wearing a crown all day, but that’s only in your head.
It’s the breathtaking notion that mothers don’t work that’s catching my attention though..

walshb

I’d hedge a bet that the vast majority folks wouldn’t last a month doing some the engagements that the royals have to and must do. And do whilst being positive, engaging, smiley, enthusiastic; even if, at times they have a right pain in their hoop!!

Sardonicat

Ckendrick wrote: »

So, mothers of 3 children don’t do any work you say? That’s an interesting take in 2021.
You do realise that she has a full schedule of royal engagements that she has to meet in her role as the patron of 20 different charities under the umbrella of a foundation she and he set up in 2011?
The same as everyone else she’s had to attend to most of these engagements over the last year via zoom, but she did attend.
I know in your imagination she’s sitting on a throne wearing a crown all day, but that’s only in your head.
It’s the breathtaking notion that mothers don’t work that’s catching my attention though..

Most mothers of three children don't have an army of nannies and housekeepers, or do you think Kate actually cooks fo,r, washes for , cleans up after, dresses and bathes her own kids? Most parents of three kids do this themselves without someone bowing to them and addressing them as 'Royal Highness'. Whilst going to work. Actual work, not showing up at an event that they are carried to and from, wave, smile condescendingly while being presented with flowers, read out some words that have been written for them and be photographed. That's not work.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

I’d hedge a bet that the vast majority folks wouldn’t last a month doing some the engagements that the royals have to and must do. And do whilst being positive, engaging, smiley, enthusiastic; even if, at times they have a right pain in their hoop!!

As Meghan found out!

superflyninja

end of the road wrote: »

it was a small segment of the interview in fairness, hardly the end of the world and definitely not spending half the interview banging on about it in fairness.

the security was for the child, the reason she believed they should have continued to have it was because archie is ultimately the grandson of the future king, which to be honest is a perfectly legitimate concern.

however it's also legitimate to argue that because they have stepped back the risk is likely a lot less, and it's certainly reasonable to argue that an english police force can't provide security for someone in another country and the UK tax payer can't pay for it now they aren't on UK soil which i certainly would agree they shouldn't.
but her concerns are understandable and i certainly wouldn't criticise her for raising them.

She can argue all she likes, it was known before Harry ever met Markle what the security arrangements would be.

Yeah by all means discuss internally, but to do a public interview strongly suggesting the reason for lack of security was racism is absurd. Not to mention highly damaging to the RF.

Also you didn't reply about her accusing the RF of racism. That's ok in your books then?

Leg End Reject

I think it's incredibly dishonest to suggest that a member of the RF is run ragged from work, or that they are busy housewives and mothers. They have staff to help dress them FFS!

The "work" looks boring, but the hardest part would be maintaining the pretence of interest in whatever event or performance you attend.

It makes Meghan's flounce all the the more pathetic though.

walshb

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I think it's incredibly dishonest to suggest that a member of the RF is run ragged from work, or that they are busy housewives and mothers. They have staff to help dress them FFS!

The "work" looks boring, but the hardest part would be maintaining the pretence of interest in whatever event or performance you attend.

It makes Meghan's flounce all the the more pathetic though.

Agreed. And actually having to even attend these engagements in the first place..

The Queen is a remarkable woman. Her dedication and work ethic is off the charts..

And yes, everything is laid on, but she still is the star attraction and has to be the star attraction. All the time..

Days after her long serving husband passes, and still duty calls for a 94 year old woman. She was on engagements days after his death.

When really, she probably just wanted peace and quiet..

2019 she had almost 300 engagements, aged 93 or so

Charles had 500 engagements 2019..

Markle was in for the very short term. And all take, take, take...an out and out me feiner!

Ckendrick

Sardonicat wrote: »

Most mothers of three children don't have an army of nannies and housekeepers, or do you think Kate actually cooks fo,r, washes for , cleans up after, dresses and bathes her own kids? Most parents of three kids do this themselves without someone bowing to them and addressing them as 'Royal Highness'. Whilst going to work. Actual work, not showing up at an event that they are carried to and from, wave, smile condescendingly while being presented with flowers, read out some words that have been written for them and be photographed. That's not work.

No of course. Kate gets up in the morning and puts on a ball gown and a tiara and sits on her throne for the entire day.
None of us have ever seen her at a royal engagement, speaking to dozens of attendees or hugging children. None of us have ever seen her walk around a new wing of a hospital listening to the Director of Nursing describe the services. None of us have ever seen her chair a zoom meeting with one of her charities. None of us have ever seen her relaxing with her own children.
No, she does nothing all day but order staff around.
I’m pretty sure now that all your knowledge of the British royal family is based on whatever was the last Disney movie that is obviously your staple diet of entertainment so well done .

Neyite

Sardonicat wrote: »

Most mothers of three children don't have an army of nannies and housekeepers, or do you think Kate actually cooks fo,r, washes for , cleans up after, dresses and bathes her own kids? Most parents of three kids do this themselves without someone bowing to them and addressing them as 'Royal Highness'. Whilst going to work. Actual work, not showing up at an event that they are carried to and from, wave, smile condescendingly while being presented with flowers, read out some words that have been written for them and be photographed. That's not work.

They've one nanny that's been with them since the birth of their first child who minds all three kids. I imagine that the nanny does normal hours a week so there's plenty of time outside of that they are doing it themselves or with Granny Carole helping out occasionally. That's pretty much the same childcare as me - though I've just the one!

There's one housekeeper but I imagine that with 21 rooms in their gaff they'd have cleaning staff as well, but I do remember reading that when they moved in, there was an initial upset with the housekeeper because they were more housetrained self-sufficient than she was accustomed to and doing some of their own housework /cooking. She's often seen doing a trolley shop in Tesco - in fact a couple of years ago that's where the kids halloween costumes were bought from. And she's often spotted doing the school run.

So yeah, not exactly slumming it with us working mums but still more hands on than many of that set are.

They do have a larger cohort of staff to deal with their engagements/media so secretaries and other professionals and many of those have also been in their employment for years but they aren't domestic staff.

hamburgham

walshb wrote: »

What I find bizarre is that some folks can’t recognise what an amazing role mode the Queen is. Hard work doesn’t come close to her unwavering and indefatigable service to her country and her people. 24/7/365...70 years of it..

You don’t have to be a RF fan, or even like them and the institution at all, but to not see the utter work ethic and dedication that some of them show, is being deliberately blind in my view. Born into it is irrelevant. She, a person, actually had to put in the work, and without having any real say. It was expected of her. Very tough life in the sense of any real normal freedoms. Owned by your people.

I find the history and story and all that goes with it a fascinating insight into human history. Centuries of it. It’s just people being people. Love it, loathe it, neither......it is truly a wondrous type story and history.

Related to Markle: she wanted all the limelight and fame from the RF, but without any of the work and character required to be a member. An absolute charlatan.

And truly exposed as one by her reaction!!

I saw that when that when they came to Ireland, Must admit, I was glued to the whole visit, but how much of it must have been so bloody boring for them. The pinnacle being when they had to sit on two chairs looking onto the pitch at Croke Park.I still remember them standing for an hour greeting guests at the State dinner, she was over 80 and he must have been nearly 90. How did they do it? And her few words of Irish were perfect.

As an aside, I saw a clip where William was bestowing some award on a deaf person and he had gone to the trouble of learning a bit of sign language.

Yes, their lives are incredibly privileged but I can see how much of it must be a complete pain in the neck.

walshb

hamburgham wrote: »

I saw that when that when they came to Ireland, Must admit, I was glued to the whole visit, but how much of it must have been so bloody boring for them, The pinnacle being when they had to sit on two chairs looking onto the pitch at Croke Park.I still remember them standing for an hour greeting guests at the State dinner, she was over 80 and he must have been nearly 90. How did they do it? And her few words of Irish were perfect.

As an aside, I saw a clip where William was bestowing some award on a deaf person and he had gone to the trouble of learning a bit of sign language.

Yes, their lives are incredibly privileged but I can see how much of it must be a complete pain in the neck.

Glad you brought up the Irish visit

I remember the Queen standing in line meeting everyone and their mother before that dinner, and thinking to myself, wtf is going on here?

It was so OTT. Most the people were absolute nobodies; it went on for what seemed like an eternity. I had never seen the Queen do something like that. She stood there as dozens and dozens of people went to her for the introduction ..

It really did look so OTT. But, the 84/85 year old did it nonetheless, and smiled at every person!!

Ckendrick

It’s very interesting when posters start giving their opinion on what they do and don’t consider to be “work”, especially in reference to women who are mothers.
In my experience most of these people are very unhappy in their own jobs, if they even have a job, and resent those who don’t moan constantly about work.
You can tell even more about a person when they refer to motherhood as not being real “work”.
It tells you so much about their attitude to women and women’s role in the modern world.
Princess Anne for example has enjoyed indulging her equine hobbies all her life, but she works very hard too at the roles assigned to her as a senior royal.
Unlike her husbands SIL, Kate Middleton understood what being married to one of the heirs to the throne would involve and she has done her best to embrace the duties that come with the role that she made a decision to take on.
Of course for some onlookers who have a very limited knowledge of what the job actually entails you’ll encounter lots of resentment and envy, but that’s in all circles and is best ignored.

Ckendrick

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I think it's incredibly dishonest to suggest that a member of the RF is run ragged from work, or that they are busy housewives and mothers. They have staff to help dress them FFS!

The "work" looks boring, but the hardest part would be maintaining the pretence of interest in whatever event or performance you attend.

It makes Meghan's flounce all the the more pathetic though.

You think that Zara Philips doesn’t dress herself? Oh I see. You saw that clip from The Crown of the Queen being put into her dress in 1953 and you just assume that that’s what happens. Ok.

Sardonicat

Ckendrick wrote: »

It’s very interesting when posters start giving their opinion on what they do and don’t consider to be “work”, especially in reference to women who are mothers.
In my experience most of these people are very unhappy in their own jobs, if they even have a job, and resent those who don’t moan constantly about work.
You can tell even more about a person when they refer to motherhood as not being real “work”.
It tells you so much about their attitude to women and women’s role in the modern world.
Princess Anne for example has enjoyed indulging her equine hobbies all her life, but she works very hard too at the roles assigned to her as a senior royal.
Unlike her husbands SIL, Kate Middleton understood what being married to one of the heirs to the throne would involve and she has done her best to embrace the duties that come with the role that she made a decision to take on.
Of course for some onlookers who have a very limited knowledge of what the job actually entails you’ll encounter lots of resentment and envy, but that’s in all circles and is best ignored.

Did any posters on here refer to motherhood not being real work?

bunny_mac

hamburgham wrote: »

Yes, their lives are incredibly privileged but I can see how much of it must be a complete pain in the neck.

I know I wouldn't trade my life for theirs in a million years. No amount of money would be worth giving up my independence and freedom. Plus in my job you don't have to pretend to like people.

Ckendrick

Sardonicat wrote: »

Did any posters on here refer to motherhood not being real work?

What is her "job"? Day to day, what does she do that you define as work?

This was your question despite you knowing that Kate Middleton is a mother of 3. So, clearly, you don’t define motherhood as work.
Of course then you described, with no evidence to back it up, how she herself does absolutely no mothering at all, merely issuing orders all day and occasionally waving “condescendingly” at people who’ve come out to see her.
I’m absolutely confident that any minute now your going to produce evidence that she plays no role in the care of her family or has in participation in any of the roles she’s taken on in all her charities and royal duties.
You’re busy even as we speak compiling a list of reports and articles complaining about her.

hamburgham

walshb wrote: »

Glad you brought up the Irish visit

I remember the Queen standing in line meeting everyone and their mother before that dinner, and thinking to myself, wtf is going on here?

It was so OTT. Most the people were absolute nobodies; it went on for what seemed like an eternity. I had never seen the Queen do something like that. She stood there as dozens and dozens of people went to her for the introduction ..

It really did look so OTT. But, the 84/85 year old did it nonetheless, and smiled at every person!!

And for the reciprocal visit, my heart went out for her when I saw she had to endure a dinner with Micheal D sitting beside her. Can you imagine the guff he came out with.

Leg End Reject

Ckendrick wrote: »

You think that Zara Philips doesn’t dress herself? Oh I see. You saw that clip from The Crown of the Queen being put into her dress in 1953 and you just assume that that’s what happens. Ok.

Zara doesn't have a title and is not a working royal, so yes, I'm sure she does dress herself.

I'm not sure why you're being so aggressive, it's just a discussion.

Iscreamkone

The funeral of Philip was on in the background last saturday. I was explaining to my 8 year old that the Queen was doing her job for about 70 years.
"I wouldn't like that" he said
"You wouldn't like to be a King" I replied.
"Maybe for a little while, but not that long, I'd like to do other things" he said.
Good answer.

He also thought it was strange that he'd have worked a full life and retired before Prince George (same age) gets the job that he was born to do, be King.

It's all a bit strange?

Sardonicat

Ckendrick wrote: »

What is her "job"? Day to day, what does she do that you define as work?

This was your question despite you knowing that Kate Middleton is a mother of 3. So, clearly, you don’t define motherhood as work.
Of course then you described, with no evidence to back it up, how she herself does absolutely no mothering at all, merely issuing orders all day and occasionally waving “condescendingly” at people who’ve come out to see her.
I’m absolutely confident that any minute now your going to produce evidence that she plays no role in the care of her family or has in participation in any of the roles she’s taken on in all her charities and royal duties.
You’re busy even as we speak compiling a list of reports and articles complaining about her.

It was also pointed out to you that Kate Middleton has an army of staff to do the actual work of parenting. So in her case, no,its not a job. How many working parents do you know that have 24hr nannies, cooks, cleaners, drivers, organisers to run their home.? Do you think she changed her own children's nappies? Do you think she gets them up, washed fed and dressed, takes them to school/daycare, before heading out to work, then later, collecting the kids, getting a meal, cleaning, washing, etc.. is that what you think Kate Middleton does?

Ckendrick

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Zara doesn't have a title and is not a working royal, so yes, I'm sure she does dress herself.

I'm not sure why you're being so aggressive, it's just a discussion.

I’m not aggressive I’m amused. The idea that some people actually believe that someone is paid to put Kate Middletons legs into her knickers in the morning, or that she sits on a throne barking orders at people all day, when there’s endless footage of her working quite hard at something I wouldn’t enjoy doing at all, is very funny to me.
People commenting very confidently about something they know so little about is always very interesting.

Sardonicat

Ckendrick wrote: »

I’m not aggressive I’m amused. The idea that some people actually believe that someone is paid to put Kate Middletons legs into her knickers in the morning, or that she sits on a throne barking orders at people all day, when there’s endless footage of her working quite hard at something I wouldn’t enjoy doing at all, is very funny to me.
People commenting very confidently about something they know so little about is always very interesting.

There footage of her working? Do share.

Ckendrick

Sardonicat wrote: »

It was also pointed out to you that Kate Middleton has an army of staff to do the actual work of parenting. So in her case, no,its not a job. How many working parents do you know that have 24hr nannies, cooks, cleaners, drivers, organisers to run their home.? Do you think she changed her own children's nappies? Do you think she gets them up, washed fed and dressed, takes them to school/daycare, before heading out to work, then later, collecting the kids, getting a meal, cleaning, washing, etc.. is that what you think Kate Middleton does?

I have great faith in you. Any minute now your going to produce the evidence that she doesn’t do any mothering or anything at all really. This evidence will be groundbreaking as there’s endless evidence that she does plenty of mothering.
Your evidence will be earth shattering news that will make all the front pages in the morning.

notsoyoungwan

Ckendrick wrote: »

No of course. Kate gets up in the morning and puts on a ball gown and a tiara and sits on her throne for the entire day.
None of us have ever seen her at a royal engagement, speaking to dozens of attendees or hugging children. None of us have ever seen her walk around a new wing of a hospital listening to the Director of Nursing describe the services. None of us have ever seen her chair a zoom meeting with one of her charities. None of us have ever seen her relaxing with her own children.
No, she does nothing all day but order staff around.
I’m pretty sure now that all your knowledge of the British royal family is based on whatever was the last Disney movie that is obviously your staple diet of entertainment so well done .

Oh my word! Hugging children! Speaking to people!! Listening to someone describe a service! Chair a meeting!! Such hard work! How ever does she do it?! I meet loads of people at work every day. I treat each and every one of them with dignity and respect. I listen to them and engage with them. That’s not challenging and it’s not what makes my job difficult. Nobody briefs me on them beforehand either, doing all the background work. And I’m expected to do a damn sight more than smile, wave, shake hands and utter a few meaningless platitudes before moving on to the next person for me to meet.

That reminds me of a bit of the Oprah interview in which Harry said that he still had to fulfil his engagements no matter how he felt, he had to put on the game face and go to the engagement (I’m paraphrasing here as I can’t remember the exact words) and I remember thinking “ehhh yes Harry, that’s what the rest of us do, we get up and go to work irrespective of what’s going on in our personal lives, or whether we just don’t particularly want to go that day”. If he wants to consider his engagements work then he has to accept the reality of working life which is that you put on the game face and go do your job. The difference of course being that if the ordinary Joe soap doesn’t turn up without valid leave, there’ll be a HR and disciplinary process to be followed, but Harry won’t be put on a performance management plan or threatened with being sacked, will he? That statement made me gasp at the time- he really doesn’t have a clue what the realities of life for normal people are.

Sardonicat

Ckendrick wrote: »

I have great faith in you. Any minute now your going to produce the evidence that she doesn’t do any mothering or anything at all really. This evidence will be groundbreaking as there’s endless evidence that she does plenty of mothering.
Your evidence will be earth shattering news that will make all the front pages in the morning.

I'm looking forward with baited breath to this footage of her working quite hard. And seriously, if you don't realise that Royalty don't raise their own children, clean their own homes or prepare their own meals then you are truly deluded.

notsoyoungwan

Ckendrick wrote: »

I’m not aggressive I’m amused. The idea that some people actually believe that someone is paid to put Kate Middletons legs into her knickers in the morning, or that she sits on a throne barking orders at people all day, when there’s endless footage of her working quite hard at something I wouldn’t enjoy doing at all, is very funny to me.
People commenting very confidently about something they know so little about is always very interesting.

Could you show us who said they actually believe that ‘someone is paid to put Kate Middleton’s legs into her knickers in the morning or that she sits on a throne barking orders at people all day’, please. Because I don’t think anyone said that at all.

notsoyoungwan

Sardonicat wrote: »

I'm looking forward with baited breath to this footage of her working quite hard. And seriously, if you don't realise that Royalty don't raise their own children, clean their own homes or prepare their own meals then you are truly deluded.

But but but... she hugs children!! She shakes hands!! She listens to people when on a tour of a facility!!

Leg End Reject

No one said Kate sat on her throne every day either. The throne is ceremonial and only the monarch sits on it, but it's not used as an everyday piece of furniture.