Substitution

richiedel123

Bit of an odd setup here! Looking to see did anybody else have to do the same thing. Anyway my mate had a licence on his shotgun so he sold it and bought a 223 rifle. He filled out his application form and put down substitution on it. (I know it normally works on a like for like basis)got a phone call from the supers right hand man about it. He told him to send it in as a brand new application. My problem with what's happening is if he is applying for a new licence he will have to pay for the new licence and his old one will in theory be still active. Does this sound odd to anybody else? Or has anybody else had this happen to them

Cass

Like for like is completely up to the Super/FO. If they won't do a sub then it has to be a new license. Its not a problem though.

Cancel the shotgun with an FCA2 and apply for the new license on the rifle. Once the grant comes through for the rifle he can pay the €80 and he is set. Granted he'll lose the remainder of the time on the shotgun license but this is how it must be done.

Alternatively, if he doesn't want to lose the time left on the shotgun license, he can sub the license to another shotgun (a friends/family members one) that he can get access to and let the license run on it. Then either renew or cancel when the time comes for the shotgun renewal.

richiedel123

Cass wrote: »

Like for like is completely up to the Super/FO. If they won't do a sub then it has to be a new license. Its not a problem though.

Cancel the shotgun with an FCA2 and apply for the new license on the rifle. Once the grant comes through for the rifle he can pay the €80 and he is set. Granted he'll lose the remainder of the time on the shotgun license but this is how it must be done.

Alternatively, if he doesn't want to lose the time left on the shotgun license, he can sub the license to another shotgun (a friends/family members one) that he can get access to and let the license run on it. Then either renew or cancel when the time comes for the shotgun renewal.

I assumed that's how it was going to work out. It's a bit of a cluster **** really. I remember changing from shotgun to 308 with no problems. Obviously the supers are getting more vigilant now. Thanks Lad

Cass

The like for like thing has always been a bone of contention.

Some get, like yourself, a shotgun to 308. I, and a few others i know, have had trouble even changing within the same caliber. The FO has a lot to do with it as they make the decision before it hits the Super's desk for signing. As FOs have changed so too have the rules. Argue and it sits on a shelf. So you have to ask yourself do you want to delay it by fighting it or accept the decision, do it as they demand and get it somewhat timely?

PITA is right.

cookimonster

You are at the mercy of the decision makers. I know a chap who sub'd a .22LR for a 308, no problem, 12 months later he got a call from the station - 'theres been a mistake made, you shouldn't have been granted that substitution, we will have to sought this out'
His reply was - 'no problem, understood, I'll see you in court'. The out come - never heard a thing off them again and he still has the rifle all theses years later.

As a mater of interest, was there much time left on the license for the shotgun?

richiedel123

cookimonster wrote: »

You are at the mercy of the decision makers. I know a chap who sub'd a .22LR for a 308, no problem, 12 months later he got a call from the station - 'theres been a mistake made, you shouldn't have been granted that substitution, we will have to sought this out'
His reply was - 'no problem, understood, I'll see you in court'. The out come - never heard a thing off them again and he still has the rifle all theses years later.

As a mater of interest, was there much time left on the license for the shotgun?

2 years 🙄 it really is a joke like it makes no sense

cookimonster

richiedel123 wrote: »

2 years �� it really is a joke like it makes no sense

A Jez, plenty of time left for a sub, they have a guidance note that substitutions should not be made in the last three months of the duration of the exsisting license, but in this case I think your mate had plenty of time.

I'd say they just fell back on thier guidance documents-
Commissioner's Guidelines 2018

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/online-services/firearms-licensing/commissioner-s-guidelines-2018.pdf

Page 42 ANNEX E
Substitutions and Disposal of Firearms

clivej

I've tried this twice and got the same answer. The same shotgun but going from unresticted to restricted and then trying to go from a restricted firearm back to an unrestricted firearm, was not allowed as wasn't a 'Like for Like'. Meaning the same type of license. But I did sub an air-rifle to a centerfire rifle.
Also I've kept a license that had 2 years to run in case I got another firearm in the meantime. Handed it up when the renewal came around.

richiedel123

clivej wrote: »

I've tried this twice and got the same answer. The same shotgun but going from unresticted to restricted and then trying to go from a restricted firearm back to an unrestricted firearm, was not allowed as wasn't a 'Like for Like'. Meaning the same type of license. But I did sub an air-rifle to a centerfire rifle.
Also I've kept a license that had 2 years to run in case I got another firearm in the meantime. Handed it up when the renewal came around.

I think that's his plan now. Put his old licence onto his fathers gun in case he wants it again before it runs much thanks for the replies

cookimonster

Did he by any chance close out the licence before he applied for the .223, in other words was his Father granted a licence on the shotgun before your mate applied for a substitution?

Put his old licence onto his fathers gun in case he wants it again before it runs...

How has he still got a licence for the shotgun if his father has licenced it now?

richiedel123

Nope the licence is still live he is thinking of using it as a joint licence on his dads licensed gun just to have it on something and the 223 will be a new licence separately

cookimonster

Ok If I'm clear on this his Father applied for a license on that shot gun and was granted it.
If that's the case and I'm not mistaken, your friends licence is now null and void. Your friend should have cancelled his licence using a FAC2 form, used to amend or cancel a license in a situation like this.
Here the individual is not licenced to have guns they are licenced for an individual firearm.

He can reapply for a licence on that gun as joint ownership and AFAIK because he held a licence for it in the past three years they will reissue an up to date licence with details of the joint ownership accounted for without a further fee having to be paid.

richiedel123

cookimonster wrote: »

Ok If I'm clear on this his Father applied for a license on that shot gun and was granted it.
If that's the case and I'm not mistaken, your friends licence is now null and void. Your friend should have cancelled his licence using a FAC2 form, used to amend or cancel a license in a situation like this.
Here the individual is not licenced to have guns they are licenced for an individual firearm.

He can reapply for a licence on that gun as joint ownership and AFAIK because he held a licence for it in the past three years they will reissue an up to date licence with details of the joint ownership accounted for without a further fee having to be paid.

Nope u have it mixed up Lad. He had a shotgun licensed and it's sold now and the licence is being applied for it by the person buying the gun. It's still in his possession until they get their licence. So straight away he went off and picked out a 223 and used a fca1 and ticked substitution hoping it would be a straight swap. But got told it can't be done. He had to completely apply for a new licence. As his one on the shotgun is still live till the new owner is granted it. He is thinking of using his shotgun licence on his own fathers gun just to keep his shotgun licence going and apply for the 223 as a new licence which they had told him he had to do.

cookimonster

Got you now, had to read over the posts a few times..... too much lead in my diet.

Jumbo88

Anyone ever get a sub from a .22 to a 6.5x55?? Without a deer licence I’ve applied for mine but still waiting on it. So just hoping to get the ball rolling with my gun licence