No communication between dates - how do I ask if he likes me

LegacyUser

He is not making any effort cos he doesn't have to.
He is literally having his cake and eating it.
I know it's different when you're in it. You want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I think you know in your heart it's time to move on unless it's just sex you are after too.
You deserve better.

Taeholic

Hi Yellow

I agree with you that if a man likes or is interested in you he won't leave you wondering. You are initiating contact so you are showing him that you are interested, I think both parties should be excited to get to know one another better and spend time together.

You seem to be doing all the chasing. Of course he can't text all day if he's working I get that but you make time for someone you like. Before work, quick text on lunch or whatever. Just to see how was your day etc it doesn't have to be a deep and meaningful conversation.

If I were you I'd stop texting him first, decide for yourself after a few days of no contact if you think he is worth your time and energy. No mind games just give yourself a few days to see how you feel.

For what it's worth I wouldn't meet him again, even to ask if he's interested in a relationship further down the line. Actions speak louder than words

Username here

Porklife wrote: »

You give really good advice on here all the time. Read your message as if it was written by somebody else. I think you'll find your answer then:) x

That was actually my first thought reading your post, YL - you would give great advice to anyone else who has posted that. So to paraphrase PL - have a think about the advice you'd give if someone else was in your position.

And FWIW, I'm a guy, and while obviously I can't speak for all other men, I've certainly never left anyone in doubt that I was interested in them. It would be completely self defeating to have met a lady I like, and not engage with her sufficiently for her to realise my interest. Who doesn't have 20 seconds to type out "hi, how was your day?" - IF that's something they want to do?

YellowLead

Username here wrote: »

That was actually my first thought reading your post, YL - you would give great advice to anyone else who has posted that. So to paraphrase PL - have a think about the advice you'd give if someone else was in your position.

And FWIW, I'm a guy, and while obviously I can't speak for all other men, I've certainly never left anyone in doubt that I was interested in them. It would be completely self defeating to have met a lady I like, and not engage with her sufficiently for her to realise my interest. Who doesn't have 20 seconds to type out "hi, how was your day?" - IF that's something they want to do?

Thanks. It’s like editing - it’s much easier to edit somebody else’s work than your own

But I think it’s looking like that he’s just not that into me and I need to grow some balls and just ask. If he’s going to get scared off by me asking if he likes me....then clearly he doesn’t.

I appreciate each and every person who has taken the time to post - it all helps me to process my wandering thoughts on the matter.

leggo

Quick question OP:

Do you find yourself getting more invested in him the more you start to wonder why he’s not texting? Does the wondering and tension start to consume you a bit until you get a response and feel validated?

If that’s tough to figure out, it can be difficult for many I appreciate, I guess another way of putting it is would you say you like him more now than before your last date despite the lack of texting?

YellowLead

leggo wrote: »

Quick question OP:

Do you find yourself getting more invested in him the more you start to wonder why he’s not texting? Does the wondering and tension start to consume you a bit until you get a response and feel validated?

If that’s tough to figure out, it can be difficult for many I appreciate, I guess another way of putting it is would you say you like him more now than before your last date despite the lack of texting?

I don’t think so. Probably less - I do prefer when I think they like me back If I get hints of uncertainty I want to get out of there.

So last summer when I started dating I didn’t date one person at a time I would be chatting to loads and then meet up with a few (which I was open about) - that way I never did get invested in any one person really. Now I’m taking it one person at a time I kind of feel like I need to be selective and move on to the next if there is ambiguity. I guess it’s the same for a lot of people - but in reality you can’t tell whether or not if somebody is suitable so early on so you just have to have patience...which I need to learn. I guess when lockdown ends I’ll go back to dating a few people until it’s clear I like one and he likes me back.

zoe 3619

Do you feel that he's interested when you're actually together?
I think the texting thing is being rather overblown.
If you've had 4 dates in 3 weeks you're seeing each other every few days and you say he messages to say he enjoyed it.
Does he suggest the next date or do you?
I'd be fairly bad with chatting over text and I'm sure others would be as well.Fairly hard to strike up a meaningful conversation in that format when your just getting to know each other.
I don't think it would be too soon to ask how he sees the two of you but I don't think the texting should be an issue.

YellowLead

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Do you feel that he's interested when you're actually together?
I think the texting thing is being rather overblown.
If you've had 4 dates in 3 weeks you're seeing each other every few days and you say he messages to say he enjoyed it.
Does he suggest the next date or do you?
I'd be fairly bad with chatting over text and I'm sure others would be as well.Fairly hard to strike up a meaningful conversation in that format when your just getting to know each other.
You must have

I do feel like that when we are together yes. I have suggested one of the dates, he has the other 3.
Maybe the texting is a personal preference thing, but I’ve just never encountered a scenario where it was so little before. Seems a lot of other posters think it’s an odd thing too.

JPup

It’s not just that he’s not texting though is it? He doesn’t seem to be calling or emailing or communicating in any way between dates, is that right? For me, that’s a bad sign this early in a relationship. Sounds like he’s just not that into you.

None of us know the guy, so could be wrong of course. But usually if you are really into someone you are going to be in touch with them almost every day in some way.

zoe 3619

YellowLead wrote: »

I do feel like that when we are together yes. I have suggested one of the dates, he has the other 3.
Maybe the texting is a personal preference thing, but I’ve just never encountered a scenario where it was so little before. Seems a lot of other posters think it’s an odd thing too.

I'd actually find it odd (and slightly irritating) if I was sent a message saying 'hi.how was your day?' I'd have to message back saying 'fine.how was yours?'
Some people interact better in person.I wouldn't have a clue what to text in his situation.
Maybe you have doubts about him anyway,but I'd be doomed if the success of my relationships was dependent on my clever and conversational messages.

YellowLead

zoe 3619 wrote: »

I'd actually find it odd (and slightly irritating) if I was sent a message saying 'hi.how was your day?' I'd have to message back saying 'fine.how was yours?'
Some people interact better in person.I wouldn't have a clue what to text in his situation.
Maybe you have doubts about him anyway,but I'd be doomed if the success of my relationships was dependent on my clever and conversational messages.

Haha - I wouldn’t be into that ‘how was your day’ thing either - in these times everybody’s day is the exact same as the day before anyway.
It’s more just sharing something funny that happened or that you saw, or a funny little rant. Light kind of stuff that indicates you were on their mind and vice versa. I’m deffo not into the let’s swap life stories over text. There is a lot of that happening in lockdown but it’s not real in my view.

Caranica

YellowLead wrote: »

So last summer when I started dating I didn’t date one person at a time I would be chatting to loads and then meet up with a few (which I was open about) - that way I never did get invested in any one person really. Now I’m taking it one person at a time I kind of feel like I need to be selective and move on to the next if there is ambiguity. I guess it’s the same for a lot of people - but in reality you can’t tell whether or not if somebody is suitable so early on so you just have to have patience...which I need to learn. I guess when lockdown ends I’ll go back to dating a few people until it’s I like one and he likes me back.

That's fairly aggressive dating, why the panic?

YellowLead

Caranica wrote: »

That's fairly aggressive dating, why the panic?

I don’t think it’s aggressive. Maybe - but my few single friends would be similar.
I got out of a 17.5 year relationship last Jan so I just want to meet lots of people and have fun and figure out what I want/don’t want in a relationship. I’m not looking to settle down any time soon.

But I would now like something exclusive that lasts a few months at least, that is mutual. I just want to experience that. I know you can’t force it - but it won’t happen if I don’t go out and look for it.

Caranica

To be honest I don't think you're going to find that on a dating app during the pandemic. People are turning to the apps for one thing only, any kind of exclusive relationship isn't it.

YellowLead

Caranica wrote: »

To be honest I don't think you're going to find that on a dating app during the pandemic. People are turning to the apps for one thing only, any kind of exclusive relationship isn't it.

I agree for a large chunk. But there are also plenty who are - I have friends (not just female male also) who are. I don’t use tinder as that’s hook ups in the main.

leggo

YellowLead wrote: »

I just want to meet lots of people and have fun and figure out what I want/don’t want in a relationship. I’m not looking to settle down any time soon.

But I would now like something exclusive that lasts a few months at least, that is mutual. I just want to experience that. I know you can’t force it - but it won’t happen if I don’t go out and look for it.

Those two viewpoints are kinda opposing though. What do you think will happen after you’re in this ‘ideal’ scenario for a few months? You’ll just both wake up one day and go your separate ways amicably? When you’re dating someone exclusively, an intimacy, connection and attachment naturally builds over time.

Don’t get me wrong, I know plenty of people who think like this. I’ve had a couple of people I’ve dated short-term finish things out of the blue when everything seems to be going swimmingly, citing the fact it’s going *well* as a reason...freaking out or sabotaging because they have vague plans to go travelling or whatever one day and starting something good is inconvenient for that. It’s extremely frustrating, and when they usually come back with the tail between their legs shortly afterwards, they’re surprised to hear the ship has sailed because I don’t tolerate that behaviour anymore. I’m a person, not a project to experiment on for someone’s personal development.

I think this might be contributing towards your situation. It’s not a stretch to say that, when you don’t seem sure about what you want (because what you say you want contradicts itself), you find yourself in a dating situation where you don’t have a clue how the other person feels either. That’s the law of attraction at work right there.

So I think getting on top of your feelings and being honest with yourself about what you want might be your first step here. If you just want to casually date, then someone taking a casual attitude towards dating you shouldn’t upset you. If you want to connect with someone, be realistic about what that entails and can potentially lead to. If you want to casually date but also want the feeling of someone else falling over themselves for you...well then you want an uneven relationship where they’re attached but you’re not and the blunt truth is you’d be effectively using them then discarding them when it no longer suits you (not saying that’s what you’re doing here, but it would be it you followed your intentions through).

If that’s what you want then that’s unfair to expect anything more than what you’re getting as is. If it isn’t, then admit to yourself what you want, don’t settle for less and you just might get it.

YellowLead

Interesting points Leggo, and it got me thinking.
I don’t want to date casually forever - but I can’t think of any other way to find something meaningful that won’t take 20 years. If you date one by one it just makes everything much slower. It’s what I wanted to try (and also have to because of this lockdown) as I felt I could give somebody my full attention. But I didn’t like being too available - i don’t like this feeling of wondering if somebody likes me or not and I think I’m less bothered when I have a few dates lined up and haven’t got all my eggs in one basket so to speak.

I think most guys I have met (that I liked) were dating a few people at once (all early days) so I don’t want to be the one on the back foot getting invested in one person.

I’m not specifically looking to get married right away - i just got out of a long term relationship. What I want is to enjoy somebodies company, exclusively but without heavy long term expectations. I’m open to something more long term if I found something that really worked - I wouldn’t cut something great off after a few months for no reason.

But I totally see why I come across as not knowing what I want...I take your point and agree that is true to an extent. I’m learning

Gekko

I have to agree with Leggo I’m afraid OP

You’ve approached this guy as if you’re up for casual dating, by sleeping with him early on

As a guy - and from my point of view as a guy - that’s how he will see it I’m afraid to say, whatever the rights and wrongs of that are

There’s nothing wrong with that per se, as long as you fully understand the implications of it

It seems to me like you can proceed in one of two ways, carry on as you are, have “the talk” and clearly and openly say you want to proceed from now on in a relationship where you’re both exclusive

Or - if you’re hesitant about the above - otherwise spend time together without sleeping together for some period of time that you decide on - and see if he sticks around, and get your answer that way

lalababa

If you enjoy his company...then continue to enjoy it. If you don't ...then stop seeing him. Simples
JHChrist

bitofabind

I think Leggo’s called out some interesting points that are worth thinking about YL. It sounds like you’re taking a “casual” approach to dating with the intention of finding something meaningful, and those are two different things that don’t support each other. I know the conventional wisdom with the apps is that you play the numbers game as a sort of emotional safety net, but if the end goal is something meaningful, I think you have to accept that vulnerability and investing in people is a necessary part of this approach and it’s also something you can’t police in others. This vague idea of meeting someone to hang out with for “a few months” but without “heavy long term expectations” doesn’t have any practical application in the real world that I can think of. We’re talking about humans with feelings here, not ordering a pizza off a menu.

Reading between the lines, I wonder if you’re in a rush to meet someone and that sense of urgency isnt allowing for any kind of slow down to step back and think about things? You’ve made a few comments about the “years piling up” / implied that dating one person at a time takes too long. Too long for what? What’s the end goal? A committed partner? Marriage and babies? What do you ultimately want in a relationship and when?

A pet peeve of mine with OD was the people who didn’t seem to know what they wanted. I met quite a few “not sure” types, most of them were on a dating app merry-go-round and were usually not over something in their past and a bit unavailable emotionally. Kinda just passing time on the apps without clarity as to what they wanted and usually a total headfuvk to try to figure out. Personally, figuring out what I wanted and more specifically what I didn’t want got rid of my own sense of urgency with dating as I kind of decided I’d rather be single forever and have a great life than date anyone and everyone with frustrating results. I was enjoying the tranquility of my very single and celibate lockdown life when I met my current partner, that clarity was a game changer.

My advice would be to get very honest with yourself about what you want and what’s required of you to get there.

YellowLead

Gekko wrote: »

I have to agree with Leggo I’m afraid OP

You’ve approached this guy as if you’re up for casual dating, by sleeping with him early on

As a guy - and from my point of view as a guy - that’s how he will see it I’m afraid to say, whatever the rights and wrongs of that are

There’s nothing wrong with that per se, as long as you fully understand the implications of it

It seems to me like you can proceed in one of two ways, carry on as you are, have “the talk” and clearly and openly say you want to proceed from now on in a relationship where you’re both exclusive

Or - if you’re hesitant about the above - otherwise spend time together without sleeping together for some period of time that you decide on - and see if he sticks around, and get your answer that way

I do agree that to some men this is exactly how it looks. But I have to counter with that making no difference to others. I know plenty of people who slept together early on and ended up long term or married. But yes indeed he might be in the camp of equating having sex early with only wanting sex - you could be right. If a guy thinks like that then I’m quite happy to move along from him as it means we are not compatible.

I don’t always sleep with people early on by the way, it varies by situation. It makes no difference though you can wait around for ages and then if that’s what they were after they’ll still hit the road, only you’ve wasted some time.

YellowLead

bitofabind wrote: »

I think Leggo’s called out some interesting points that are worth thinking about YL. It sounds like you’re taking a “casual” approach to dating with the intention of finding something meaningful, and those are two different things that don’t support each other. I know the conventional wisdom with the apps is that you play the numbers game as a sort of emotional safety net, but if the end goal is something meaningful, I think you have to accept that vulnerability and investing in people is a necessary part of this approach and it’s also something you can’t police in others. This vague idea of meeting someone to hang out with for “a few months” but without “heavy long term expectations” doesn’t have any practical application in the real world that I can think of. We’re talking about humans with feelings here, not ordering a pizza off a menu.

Reading between the lines, I wonder if you’re in a rush to meet someone and that sense of urgency isnt allowing for any kind of slow down to step back and think about things? You’ve made a few comments about the “years piling up” / implied that dating one person at a time takes too long. Too long for what? What’s the end goal? A committed partner? Marriage and babies? What do you ultimately want in a relationship and when?.

My advice would be to get very honest with yourself about what you want and what’s required of you to get there.

Thanks for calling out these points - they are very valid.
I do want an LTR in whatever guise that forms (together for life - yes, marriage - uncertain). And with each and every person I meet that’s always a possibility rather than a goal. My goal is just to get to know someone and see where that leads, it’s makes it less pressure-some. If I fill my head with long term hopes and dreams at the start, it’s harder to deal with when it ends.

I’m not really sure what I meant by the heavy long term expectations comment - I’m blaming that on the wine last night! I think what I meant was I don’t want to be promising to love somebody for ever and ever after only a few months - but that’s silly as most people don’t expect that!

Long term goal - meet somebody to ‘settle down’ with. Short term goal - meet somebody that I like who likes me back to spend time with, however long that lasts be it a few months or more.
Having failed to experience the latter (either they liked me and I didn’t feel the same or vice versa) - the former is not even something I’m hoping too much for. Given I haven’t even found anything short term I’m planning to live life happily without it (given I had an almost 18 year relationship who produced an amazing son for me I don’t feel I’ll be missing out). If it comes along then great, if not I’ll be fine without.

leggo

Right, so the end goal is LTR but you’re protecting yourself by holding back vulnerability and not going all in. That’s totally natural and we all do it to some point. The thing is, now it’s landing you here smack bang in the middle of limbo.

I’m gonna give you this blunt perspective to chew on: if I’ve been semi-regularly having sex with someone without any end goal in sight, it’s typically someone who I find reasonably attractive but don’t see anything long term with. I’m not invested in them so don’t care how their day was to do chit-chat when I’m tired in the evenings after work, the only time I think of them is when I have a need and then I can turn on the charm a bit. Not in a deceptive way, I’ll generally let people know where they stand, but now they essentially have value to me so I’m able to put energy into the conversation. Aside from that, I’m not thinking about them and if they send me a text being a bit luvvy-dubby without it being specifically about a plan that suits me, I kinda think “**** sake” because now I’ve got to reply. Not a single person has ever turned me around from that stance and I don’t know anyone who has turned around and married (maybe even gotten into a relationship with) someone they felt that way. And the second I meet someone I really like, that person is gone. It’s not even something that is given thought because the decision is already made. They’ll only even get notified of this if we had plans I’m gonna cancel or when they reach out. Otherwise they’re finding out through social media eventually.

Are you okay having someone you’re putting time into and having sex with think that way about you? That’s the end result of a casual dating scenario. The other option is you’re dating with intent. There’s no ‘semi-serious exclusive casual’, and if you try that either you or the other person will get hurt because it’s a minefield of mixed messages. The reality is, if the end result you want is an LTR, you have to put yourself out there to a point and not settle for less. The online dating game is difficult enough for people who are straight up about what they want from the jump, if you start settling and compromising you’ll probably end up frustrated. Similarly if the idea of being vulnerable sounds exhausting to you right now and you just want someone handy for when you feel a bit lonely, that’s fine! But be realistic with your expectations there too.

YellowLead

Thanks Leggo, helpful post and well written.
Can I ask you what you mean by end goal here - yours, theirs???
‘I’m gonna give you this blunt perspective to chew on: if I’ve been semi-regularly having sex with someone without any end goal in sight, it’s typically someone who I find reasonably attractive but don’t see anything long term with’

My initial question is about how I ask whether he sees the possibility of something long term, or how I figure this out. And I’ve admitted it’s likely that he does see this as casual because of the lack of communication between dates - even though I stated to him at the beginning it’s not what I’m after, I wanted blunt answers to help me see this clearer.

Yes I’ve had scenarios before when I’m the person happy to keep it casual and sleep with somebody while still looking for others but like you I’ve always been totally upfront about that so as not to have any element of confusion for the other person. Dating casually was so easy in comparison to trying to find something more meaningful. I certainly have a lot to learn! I’m always honest with others, that not something I need to learn. As much as I want to, I can’t learn to read other people and their thoughts nor do I have a right to - so hopefully the universe can teach me what it is I do need to learn.

There is one point you seem to be making though that I still (respectfully) disagree with - if I sleep with somebody early on he’s never going to see me as more than that. I have close friends (it’s not just a friend of a friend of a friend) who did so with their significant others - so I disagree all men will feel the way you do. But I am grateful for you sharing, for sure, as plenty of men do also think the same and everybody is entitled to their own wants and deal breakers.

TheadoreT

Yeah have to agree with leggo. You strike me as the woman who'd have "don't know yet" as their what you're looking for status so not to come across overly intense.
Its hard to speak of the psychology behind the males mindset in these situationships you can end up in when intent on the part of a woman is unclear but you very quickly write that woman off as a long term option, its not even a conscious decision or in any way intentionally malicious, its goes deeper somehow but there's definitely a switch that flips in the brain. Like I've even felt guilty in the past, whereby knowing the woman was getting deeper feelings, I'd make an effort to do other things but my heart just wasn't in it at all.

If I liked someone from the start and they'd set out their wants/needs early id never be scared off, the opposite in fact, find game playing tiresome and honestly is a sign of confidence and someone really knowing themselves. I dunno, maybe there's something behind when someone values and knows their worth, they're seen as a more viable long term option than someone who muddles along being reticent to express emotion.

Wheres the mans accountability in all this you say?! You'd be right but doesn't really change the reality of these things and just trying to give you some insight into the weird way our minds work.

YellowLead

Thanks for your post Tt. In the past yes I would have had don’t know on my status where that was an option, because I didn’t know at the time and I had fun, met some great people I’m still friends with etc. But as of last November or thereabouts I’ve changed it to looking for relationship and I always make it clear at chat stage that’s what I want.
Since then, apart from one off dates that I wasn’t into I’ve had one other month long thing where I didn’t sleep with him but we had 6 dates (in case anybody has me painted as sleeping with every guy who looks my way I most certainly do not) And a 3 week thing where there was lots of texting, the volume of which was driven by him and 4 dates where he shared a lot of intimate details about his life and told me he liked me etc (I didn’t sleep with him either) and that ended once I asked what was going on when the volume of texts suddenly dropped. This was a good learning experience for me. The one and only time I got hurt as I stupidly got emotionally invested when I had no cause to. I was green, new to the looking for something meaningful thing.

I’m finding that looking for something meaningful is so hard in comparison to keeping your options open (duh, right?) because I was the options open person I’m paranoid everybody else is too, and how will I know the difference because not everybody is as honest and open as I am.

With this current person at least if all he wants is sex, I’m grateful he’s not doing all the texting etc. and making plans for the future as that’s deceptive, he’s just doing his thing and not lying to me or giving me the wrong idea so it’s up to me to decide when Im ready to ask for more, which will no doubt end things but I won’t mind as I’m not emotionally invested yet. I was intending on being patient and waiting until it was clear either way, but i think I’ve got to the point now after 4 dates and 3 weeks that it’s not unreasonable to ask and end things if I’m not cool with the answer. I was a little afraid of scaring off, but a guy who gets scared off is clearly a guy who only wants casual dating from me so i have nothing to lose.

rainbowtrout

YellowLead wrote: »

I’m not specifically looking to get married right away - i just got out of a long term relationship. What I want is to enjoy somebodies company, exclusively but without heavy long term expectations. I’m open to something more long term if I found something that really worked - I wouldn’t cut something great off after a few months for no reason.

So you want the benefits of a relationship, but not the responsibilities, and at the same time you're on here complaining that this guy essentially doesn't seem to be that invested in you. What is it you want exactly? It sounds like you want him to be more invested in you than he possibly is, but don't really want to give the same back.

You're getting what you want, but you don't seem to actually want it. Maybe you should knock dating on the head for a while and figure out what it is you do want.

YellowLead

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So you want the benefits of a relationship, but not the responsibilities, and at the same time you're on here complaining that this guy essentially doesn't seem to be that invested in you. What is it you want exactly? It sounds like you want him to be more invested in you than he possibly is, but don't really want to give the same back.

You're getting what you want, but you don't seem to actually want it. Maybe you should knock dating on the head for a while and figure out what it is you do want.

I think I explained in subsequent posts what I meant and I chose the wrong words in that post - oops! I do want a relationship and I do want to give the same back. What I was trying to say (badly and there was wine on board) was that I am not expecting to find a long term relationship straight away and that don’t want to put that kind of pressure on either party from the get go. But I would love to find that eventually, that’s always what the long term goal would be. I should probably take longer re reading and editing my posts - some people are skilled at articulating themselves and for me it can be a struggle.

And I know you mean well - but I’m not ‘complaining’ he’s not that into me at all, I just posted to see what people thought of what I could potentially say to him to explore what he wants.

rainbowtrout

YellowLead wrote: »

I think I explained in subsequent posts what I meant and I chose the wrong words in that post - oops! I do want a relationship and I do want to give the same back. What I was trying to say (badly and there was wine on board) was that I am not expecting to find a long term relationship straight away and that don’t want to put that kind of pressure on either party from the get go. But I would love to find that eventually, that’s always what the long term goal would be. I should probably take longer re reading and editing my posts - some people are skilled at articulating themselves and for me it can be a struggle.

And I know you mean well - but I’m not ‘complaining’ he’s not that into me at all, I just posted to see what people thought of what I could potentially say to him to explore what he wants.

I don't think it's possible to keep it casual and want a relationship at the same time. I don't think it's particularly relevant what he wants. What do you want? Tell him what you are looking for and then see what his response is.

YellowLead

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't think it's possible to keep it casual and want a relationship at the same time. I don't think it's particularly relevant what he wants. What do you want? Tell him what you are looking for and then see what his response is.

I don’t want to keep it causal. I want more and I am going to ask for that - I was just getting advice on wording and appropriate timing.