Ulster vs. Leinster, Saturday 6th March, 19.35 (Eir Sport 1)

Buer

awec wrote: »

I said it on the Ulster thread but I'll say it here too cause you all need to read it.

Balacoune is the best winger in Ireland. He's better than Stockdale, he's better than Earls, he's better than Lowe. He quite literally has it all.

He's like a young Dave Kearney.

If he improves his try scoring record, he might get to be like an old Dave Kearney some day.

AdamD

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't know what he said but the disallowed try was a joke. Ruddock tackles the wrong player.

Ruddock tackles the wrong player because hes 3 yards ahead of the ball running full tilt into Ruddock. Ulster have many things to complain about tonight, the disallowed try just is not one of them.

awec

Akrasia wrote: »

They shouldn’t have been able to latch so quickly if they were onside behind the hindmost foot at the ruck

The ref was policing the white try line as the offside line for the defending team but letting attackers away with being ahead of the ball before the penalty was quick tapped and ahead of the ruck for the pick and gos, it’s a huge advantage to only ref one teams offside line and this is why Leinsters quick taps worked but ulsters didn’t, Leinster were coached to ignore the offside line in attack because refs don’t enforce it, while Ulster were tryingto keep discipline by respecting the offside line as much as possible

I am almost certain VDF was ahead of Bent when he was tackled, and Ulster had to try tackle around VDF.

Penalty to Ulster.

Paul Smeenus

stephen_n wrote: »

And just ignore the point that your tight five is simply not good enough. Ulster the Wales of Pro 14 rugby. Need red cards to beat decent teams. You can moan about refs or TMO’s all you want. That doesn’t change. Ulster are the current ladyboys of Irish rugby. Great backline, powder puff pack.

That's nice, dear.

Leinster should have had a red card, and didn't get one. It doesn't matter what a team "needs" if Murphy ignores the laws.

Anyway, I'm done. Have a good night everyone.

Akrasia

stephen_n wrote: »

And just ignore the point that your tight five is simply not good enough. Ulster the Wales of Pro 14 rugby. Need red cards to beat decent teams. You can moan about refs or TMO’s all you want. That doesn’t change. Ulster are the current ladyboys of Irish rugby. Great backline, powder puff pack.

The Ulster red was fair, it’s the JOB yellow that was unfair. If JOB was yellow, then The Ulster should have been yellow too given that Jimmy’s collision was more dangerous than the offense that caused the red card

cantwbr1

awec wrote: »

I am almost certain VDF was ahead of Bent when he was tackled, and Ulster had to try tackle around VDF.

Penalty to Ulster.

Almost certain
Maybe the ref had a better view

Burkie1203

AdamD wrote: »

Ruddock tackles the wrong player because hes 3 yards ahead of the ball running full tilt into Ruddock. Ulster have many things to complain about tonight, the disallowed try just is not one of them.

McCloskey ran to Ruddocks inside shoulder. If Ruddock doesn't buy the decoy he can attempt to tackle Balacoune but he was never impeded. Try should have stood.

Akrasia

AdamD wrote: »

Ruddock tackles the wrong player because hes 3 yards ahead of the ball running full tilt into Ruddock. Ulster have many things to complain about tonight, the disallowed try just is not one of them.

In the replays he clearly stops running and is trying to stop as soon as he passed Baloucoune

Do you think decoy runs should be illegal?

Interested Observer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

McCloskey ran to Ruddocks inside shoulder. If Ruddock doesn't buy the decoy he can attempt to tackle Balacoune but he was never impeded. Try should have stood.

Exactly.

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

That's nice, dear.

Leinster should have had a red card, and didn't get one. It doesn't matter what a team "needs" if Murphy ignores the laws.

Anyway, I'm done. Have a good night everyone.

And if both teams had 14 players it would have made Ulsters front 5 miraculously better? Keep dreaming dear.

stephen_n

Akrasia wrote: »

The Ulster red was fair, it’s the JOB yellow that was unfair. If JOB was yellow, then The Ulster should have been yellow too given that Jimmy’s collision was more dangerous than the offense that caused the red card

I don’t think Warrick’s red was fair personally. Even if both had been red carded, the outcome would have been the same. Ulsters pack is simply not good enough at the top table.

Paul Smeenus

stephen_n wrote: »

And if both teams had 14 players it would have made Ulsters front 5 miraculously better? Keep dreaming dear.

You're right - Leinster team would have have had just as much energy had they been down to fourteen from when they should have.

In fact probably more! I'm sure they would just have tried twice as golly gosh hard!

Now I AM done.

Akrasia

cantwbr1 wrote: »

Almost certain
Maybe the ref had a better view

Inattentional blindness. Referees are focusing one area of the game and this means they can miss even blatant fouls right in front of them. That’s why there is a TMO and touch judges

I think the Tennis rule that allows limited ‘challenges’ to referee decisions should be brought in. Each team gets to dispute 2 decisions via TMO. If the TMO agrees they keep the challenge if they lose they lose the challenge and are down to one remaining for the rest of the game

It would prevent teams from challenging everything but also allow teams to get decisions checked where they feel genuinely hard done by

Utah_Saint

stephen_n wrote: »

I don’t think Warrick’s red was fair personally. Even if both had been red carded, the outcome would have been the same. Ulsters pack is simply not good enough at the top table.

The inconsistency is unbelievable

sebdavis

I really enjoyed that game. Balacoune is class, really like him and hopefully he stays fit and gets a run in the Ireland team.
In regards the cards, to me they all got the right colour but I don't think Toner should have got one. But anyway

awec

Utah_Saint wrote: »

The inconsistency is unbelievable

Oh no, it's totally believable.

Have you not watched Ulster against Leinster in previous seasons? I thought we'd turned a corner when Clancy and Lacey retired, but here is Frank Murphy making sure that some traditions really do continue.

sebdavis

awec wrote: »

Oh no, it's totally believable.

Have you not watched Ulster against Leinster in previous seasons?

I have, very few times the ref has anything to do with the outcome.

Akrasia

sebdavis wrote: »

I really enjoyed that game. Balacoune is class, really like him and hopefully he stays fit and gets a run in the Ireland team.
In regards the cards, to me they all got the right colour but I don't think Toner should have got one. But anyway

Why not? Toners tackle was high with contact to the head with force. While I don’t think it was a red, I have seen reds given for this in the past

To argue it wasn’t even a yellow you need to justify why not

stephen_n

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

You're right - Leinster team would have have had just as much energy had they been down to fourteen from when they should have.

In fact probably more! I'm sure they would just have tried twice as golly gosh hard!

Now I AM done.

I AM GOING TO KEEP IGNORING THE TRUTH, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES ITS POSTED BECAUSE I CAN’T FIND A LEGITIMATE COUNTER POINT.

Yes indeed. Ulster with 14 against Leinster with 14, would have meant Leinsters front five, suddenly would lack energy and become as weak as Ulsters. It’s all the refs fault.

TomsOnTheRoof

awec wrote: »

Not moaning about this one, cause it's never really refereed, but does anyone think that the rules around latching need more focus? The Bent try, he had 2 Leinster lads attached to him before he met an Ulster player, how are you supposed to tackle that? I'm pretty sure VDF was in front of him too.

Virtually impossible to stop legally.

Would like to see something done about this too. Very hard to stop and as soon as the ball carrier goes to ground the latch is over them basically preventing any contest.

On that specific incident it looked like a penalty to Ulster for VdF being offside but they are rarely given these days. I can remember a Munster game (at the start of the season?) where Kleyn was ahead of the ball carrier and was literally pulling him forward.

sebdavis

Akrasia wrote: »

Why not? Toners tackle was high with contact to the head with force. While I don’t think it was a red, I have seen reds given for this in the past

To argue it wasn’t even a yellow you need to justify why not

Personal opinion. I don't need "to argue" anything.
Im sure plenty more on here will take up the discussion

As I said enjoyable game of rugby!!

Akrasia

stephen_n wrote: »

I AM GOING TO KEEP IGNORING THE TRUTH, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES ITS POSTED BECAUSE I CAN’T FIND A LEGITIMATE COUNTER POINT.

Yes indeed. Ulster with 14 against Leinster with 14, would have meant Leinsters front five, suddenly would lack energy and become as weak as Ulsters. It’s all the refs fault.

You’re playing a game of hypothetical alternative reality

Nobody knows how Leinster would have reacted to losing their center or how Ulster would have played if JOB had been red carded instead of the yellow

The game would have been different, momentum and mindset in a rugby match is huge.

Leinster going to 14 with a red would have had a psychological effect and later on even if Warwick got red carded it would have been to even the teams numerically instead of giving Leinster a huge advantage

stephen_n

Akrasia wrote: »

You’re playing a game of hypothetical alternative reality

Nobody knows how Leinster would have reacted to losing their center or how Ulster would have played if JOB had been red carded instead of the yellow

The game would have been different, momentum and mindset in a rugby match is huge.

Leinster going to 14 with a red would have had a psychological effect and later on even if Warwick got red carded it would have been to even the teams numerically instead of giving Leinster a huge advantage

JOB was off the pitch when Warrick was carded. What do you believe the difference would have been?

Leinster got the decisions tonight for the most part. There was a justification for every call but some of them were quite weak, tenuous or comparatively harsh.

Don't think there was anything red card worthy that happened either. It's confirmation for me that a card needs to be introduced for non intentional reckless play before the sport becomes a farce. A six nations is likely to be decided based on penalty cards (albeit I felt O'Mahony was borderline intentional) which if anything more than a blip is a huge cause for concern. Let's make things safer for sure, but not at the cost of a few seasons of professional rugby whilst teams adapt.

The direction this evenings game was going was starting to become apparent before the red and there were a few justified yellow cards not shown in the latter stages as a result of what had come before. Leinster were the more clinical team and did more with possession and whilst Ulster were incredibly dynamic ball in hand and more effective across the backs, they didn't convert enough of their territory and that was apparent later on. Forwards win games and the Leinster pack was on top for the majority of that game.

I've been losing a little bit of confidence and enjoyment in rugby the last while, World Rugby need to start standardising laws more effectively and in the process of ensuring that players are safe they need to also make sure that games are competitive and entertaining.

We also need a better competition. I'm not going to doubt the environment Leinster have created, and I don't doubt the players effort, work rate or professionalism - this is a talented, hard working and well trained group of players deserving of their plaudits. That said, the back 23 of the Leinster squad shouldn't be capable of winning a league but I reckon they would right now.

Enjoy watching a good team play good rugby but tonight was a farce.

awec

awec wrote: »

Oh no, it's totally believable.

Have you not watched Ulster against Leinster in previous seasons? I thought we'd turned a corner when Clancy and Lacey retired, but here is Frank Murphy making sure that some traditions really do continue.

As you've made a good few of these posts now I just want to ask outright - do you think Frank Murphy intentionally refed the game in favour of Leinster? Do you think he was hoping for a Leinster win or does he have a grudge against Ulster?

I agree that there is a lack of competence at times with refereeing, but you seem to be suggesting actual intentional bias?

sebdavis

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster got the decisions tonight for the most part. There was a justification for every call but some of them were quite weak, tenuous or comparatively harsh.

Don't think there was anything red card worthy that happened either. It's confirmation for me that a card needs to be introduced for non intentional reckless play before the sport becomes a farce. A six nations is likely to be decided based on penalty cards (albeit I felt O'Mahony was borderline intentional). Let's make things safer, but not at the cost of a few seasons of competitive rugby whilst teams adapt.

The direction this evenings game was going was starting to become apparent before the red and there were a few justified yellow cards not shown in the latter stages as a result of what had come before. Leinster were the more clinical team and did more with possession but Ulster were incredibly dynamic ball in hand and more effective across the backs. Forwards win games however and the Leinster pack were on top for the most part.

I've been losing a little bit of confidence and enjoyment in rugby the last while, World Rugby need to start standardising laws more effectively and in the process of ensuring that players are safe they need to also make sure that games are competitive and entertaining.

We also need a better competition. I'm not going to doubt the environment Leinster have created, and I don't doubt the players effort, work rate or professionalism - this is a talented, hard working and well trained group of players deserving of their plaudits. That said, the back 23 of the Leinster squad shouldn't be capable of winning a league but I reckon they would right now.

Enjoy watching a good team play good rugby but tonight was a farce.

Hopefully the SA teams will increase the quality of the league.

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster got the decisions tonight for the most part. There was a justification for every call but some of them were quite weak, tenuous or comparatively harsh.

Don't think there was anything red card worthy that happened either. It's confirmation for me that a card needs to be introduced for non intentional reckless play before the sport becomes a farce. A six nations is likely to be decided based on penalty cards (albeit I felt O'Mahony was borderline intentional). Let's make things safer, but not at the cost of a few seasons of competitive rugby whilst teams adapt.

The direction this evenings game was going was starting to become apparent before the red and there were a few justified yellow cards not shown in the latter stages as a result of what had come before. Leinster were the more clinical team and did more with possession but Ulster were incredibly dynamic ball in hand and more effective across the backs. Forwards win games however and the Leinster pack were on top for the most part.

I've been losing a little bit of confidence and enjoyment in rugby the last while, World Rugby need to start standardising laws more effectively and in the process of ensuring that players are safe they need to also make sure that games are competitive and entertaining.

We also need a better competition. I'm not going to doubt the environment Leinster have created, and I don't doubt the players effort, work rate or professionalism - this is a talented, hard working and well trained group of players deserving of their plaudits. That said, the back 23 of the Leinster squad shouldn't be capable of winning a league but I reckon they would right now.

Enjoy watching a good team play good rugby but tonight was a farce.

This sub on after 20 minutes of a red card ELV is a good idea. They need to fast track though.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

As you've made a good few of these posts now I just want to ask outright - do you think Frank Murphy intentionally refed the game in favour of Leinster? Do you think he was hoping for a Leinster win or does he have a grudge against Ulster?

I agree that there is a lack of competence at times with refereeing, but you seem to be suggesting actual intentional bias?

I think there is an endemic lack of competence in referees produced by the IRFU and that, more frequently than not, we feel the brunt of it in fixtures against Leinster. All too often this fixture ends with the biggest talking point being some decision by the ref and it's almost always to the detriment of Ulster.

Maybe Leinster are just more efficient at manipulating appalling referees than other teams. It wouldn't be surprising, this sort of thing is what good teams are good at!

I would gladly never see Frank Murphy near an Ulster game again.

sebdavis

awec wrote: »

I think there is an endemic lack of competence in referees produced by the IRFU and that, more frequently than not, we feel the brunt of it in fixtures against Leinster.

Maybe Leinster are just more efficient at manipulating appalling referees than other teams. It wouldn't be surprising, this sort of thing is what good teams are good at!

Normally I find the better team wins. The losing team will look for excuses and the automatic choice is the ref.

Very rarely will you find a winning team complain about the ref or the losing team saying the ref had a great game.

thomond2006

https://twitter.com/thesimonokeeffe/status/1368302127592902661

:pac:

I'm pretty sure that's a penalty.