Irish Championships 2021

sodacat11

With the latest predictions about vaccine rollouts the possibility of the Irish Championships being held this year is very real. It will be great to get back to playing live over the board real chess with proper time limits again.

DmanDmythDledge

Very difficult to predict but it seems like a good chance things will be better this August than last August

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Very tentative but here’s hoping; dates and venue:
https://www.icu.ie/events/1409

Will post a note later tonight or tomorrow on the site with our summer/Irish plan.

FairCityFanboy

If this can't go ahead will it be online?

sodacat11

FairCityFanboy wrote: »

If this can't go ahead will it be online?

NO, it would be ridiculous to hold it online. It is too easy to cheat online.

cdeb

Yeah, online is fairly meaningless really.

I presume the thinking at the moment is that there won't be able to be any events before the end of July? (Which I could well understand)

Nice to have something to look forward to - even for those of who are ineligible Hopefully with the vaccine rolling out (and seemingly working), we're into the beginning of the end of all this now.

Edit - in fact, my question is answered on the ICU site. Efficient! And a very thorough answer.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Initial details here with some initial entries: https://www.icu.ie/events/1409

Plan as mentioned above is here; https://www.icu.ie/articles/938

RooksPawn

Any plans for a Senior Championship?

With priority vaccination for 70+ well advanced now, maybe something would be possible in June or July to warm us up before the Championships proper?

Retd.LoyolaCpt

RooksPawn wrote: »

Any plans for a Senior Championship?

With priority vaccination for 70+ well advanced now, maybe something would be possible in June or July to warm us up before the Championships proper?

That’s one of the events we’d try to get in over summer if possible.

Eugene Donohoe

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

That’s one of the events we’d try to get in over summer if possible.

That would be sweet

Eugene Donohoe

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Initial details here with some initial entries: https://www.icu.ie/events/1409

Plan as mentioned above is here; https://www.icu.ie/articles/938

That's really great. Thanks for your work in these uncertain times.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

A reminder that terms and conditions for the Irish Championships be found here: https://www.icu.ie/articles/670

I'm proposing two amendments for this year (from last year) and am open to player feedback on these, or if there are any other changes that players would like to see.

a. In 2020, we had the attached note: (However, for 2020, this will be simplified to 135 minutes + 35 second increment for all moves). We believe this is unnecessary for 2021 and so would revert to the standard time control.

b. We are amending the following from: "Players rated above 1900 on either of the two lists above are permitted entry. All others must apply for wildcards to the event if they wish to play unless they won a qualifying event or are a past champion. See appendix 1 below."

to

"Players rated 1900 or above at any stage since January 2020 on either of the two lists above are permitted entry. All others must apply for wildcards to the event if they wish to play unless they won a qualifying event or are a past champion. See appendix 1 below."


After 3 days, we have 15 Confirmed Entrants (by ICU rating; FIDE will be used for pairings):

2343 IM David Fitzsimons

2311 FM Conor O'Donnell

2307 IM Mark Quinn

2296 FM Tarun Kanyamarala

2280 FM Stephen Brady

2261 FM Colm Daly

2178 WIM Trisha Kanyamarala

2158 FM John Delaney

2148 CM Shane Melaugh

2131 FM Daire McMahon

2035 Peter Carroll

2032 Kavin Venkatesan

2009 John McMorrow

1914 Peter Cafolla

1880 WFM Diana Mirza

dave grant

We here in Ballyroan Community Chess Club would like to thank the ICU for giving the club the opportunity to host this years Irish Championship. We are working to make the competition as safe as possible for the competitors and to also reassure each player the venue itself will be maintained at the highest standard of cleanliness with full Covid protocols in place. We would appreciate any feed back from last years players/visitors to our venue to aide us make this years competition even better. We would like you to be honest and frank as we are confident we can fulfill the needs of the players.

sodacat11

dave grant wrote: »

We here in Ballyroan Community Chess Club would like to thank the ICU for giving the club the opportunity to host this years Irish Championship. We are working to make the competition as safe as possible for the competitors and to also reassure each player the venue itself will be maintained at the highest standard of cleanliness with full Covid protocols in place. We would appreciate any feed back from last years players/visitors to our venue to aide us make this years competition even better. We would like you to be honest and frank as we are confident we can fulfill the needs of the players.

I thought that everything last year was perfect, I couldn't fault anything. Ample free parking, easy to access from M50, lovely venue, canteen facilities, players well apart in a well lit quiet comfortable room. Everything as safe as could be regarding Covid. I love it as a venue.

Eugene Donohoe

I was there to do photos for the ICU and thought all of your covid precautions were perfect plus very friendly and welcoming. Excellent all round!

zeitnot

Eugene Donohoe wrote: »

I was there to do photos for the ICU and thought all of your covid precautions were perfect plus very friendly and welcoming. Excellent all round!

The photos for the last several years have been outstanding as well.

Eugene Donohoe

zeitnot wrote: »

The photos for the last several years have been outstanding as well.

Thanks for that.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Several former Irish Champions in the 100th Irish field already. The clubhouse leader in terms of earliest winners entered is Anthony Doyle who’ll be playing 47 years after his win. 18 entries currently.

2419 FM Conor E. Murphy

2343 IM David Fitzsimons

2311 FM Conor O'Donnell

2307 IM Mark Quinn

2296 FM Tarun Kanyamarala

2280 FM Stephen Brady

2261 FM Colm Daly

2178 WIM Trisha Kanyamarala

2158 FM John Delaney

2148 CM Shane Melaugh

2131 FM Daire McMahon

2046 Anthony Doyle

2035 Peter Carroll

2032 Kavin Venkatesan

2009 John McMorrow

1966 Adam Collins

1914 Peter Cafolla

1880 WFM Diana Mirza

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Two more former champions entered (and a new top seed), and three other takes us to 23 in total.

From conversations with a few dozen eligible players, I would categorize the likely entries in 4 tiers:
21 current entries (may lose 1-2 if restrictions don't allow for travel)
14 likely entrants (lose 5 if restrictions don't allow for travel)
24 haven't heard back from but have played an Irish in last 5 years. (lose 1 if restrictions don't allow for travel)
12 who are about 10-20% likely to play. (lose 1-2 if restrictions don't allow for travel)

So an eligible playing pool of 71 with travel, maybe 61 without travel. Hard to predict of course but I'd be surprised if we'd a turnout under 40.

2439 IM Sam E. Collins

2419 FM Conor E. Murphy

2343 IM David Fitzsimons

2311 FM Conor O'Donnell

2307 IM Mark Quinn

2296 FM Tarun Kanyamarala

2280 FM Stephen Brady

2261 FM Colm Daly

2178 WIM Trisha Kanyamarala

2158 FM John Delaney

2148 CM Shane Melaugh

2131 FM Daire McMahon

2046 Anthony Doyle

2035 Peter Carroll

2032 Kavin Venkatesan

2009 John McMorrow

1966 Adam Collins

1960 Jonathon Peoples

1938 CM Gerard MacElligott

1914 Peter Cafolla

1880 WFM Diana Mirza

1858 NM Eamon Keogh

1763 John P. Aherne

sodacat11

Was there some kind of survey sent out? if so then I didn't get it.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

sodacat11 wrote: »

Was there some kind of survey sent out? if so then I didn't get it.

No survey this year - just details of the event and venue. Some people write back with their likelihood of playing or suggestions etc. I'll send on just so you don't feel left out but nothing you don't already know (but you and a couple of others were already entered by the time I was emailing out for an idea of numbers).

macelligott

There were 32 entrants permitted to play last year. I wonder will the ICU be able to accept more entries this year? Perhaps there is another room that could be used? Positive virus results are currently very high 😕 I hope that this doesn’t derail the event. There is no clear plan yet indicating when indoor gatherings will be allowed - and, indeed, how many will be allowed to gather indoors. My advice to those thinking of playing: don’t wait too long to enter or you might not make the final cut.

DmanDmythDledge

Case numbers are up but that’s likely down to increased testing from the walk-in centres - positivity rate is gradually decreasing again. Once no setbacks with vaccine supplies, I think we can be reasonably optimistic for end of summer time.

I wonder could numbers be extended if conditions re having the vaccine or, if not, have evidence of a test in the days before the tournament begins. Problem with the latter would be continuous testing would be required throughout the tournament due to the length of it.

RooksPawn

Everything should be much clearer by the end of June - either much better or (in the case of new variants resistant to vaccines) much worse.

Personally, the thought of having to wear a mask throughout a potentially 5-hour session fills me with horror. Maybe the fully vaccinated might not have to wear masks?

cdeb

Wearing masks isn't all about protecting you though

macelligott

Entries so far including FIDE ratings:
Sam E. Collins IM 2456
Conor E. Murphy FM 2394
Mark Quinn IM 2370
Tarun Kanyamarala FM 2369
Conor O'Donnell FM 2331
David Fitzsimons IM 2324
Stephen Brady FM 2292
Colm Daly FM 2285
Joe Ryan FM 2271
Anthony Doyle 2206
John Delaney FM 2191
Trisha Kanyamarala WIM 2180
Shane Melaugh CM 2161
Daire McMahon FM 2115
Peter Carroll CM 2059
Kavin Venkatesan 2011
John McMorrow 1997
Gerard MacElligott CM 1966
Peter Cafolla 1958
Jonathon Peoples 1953
Eamon Keogh NM 1944
Diana Mirza WFM 1933
John P. Aherne 1903
Adam Collins 1887

HaraldSchmidt

RooksPawn wrote: »

Everything should be much clearer by the end of June - either much better or (in the case of new variants resistant to vaccines) much worse.

Personally, the thought of having to wear a mask throughout a potentially 5-hour session fills me with horror. Maybe the fully vaccinated might not have to wear masks?

But, how would you prove that you have been vaccinated? I think until the number of people vaccinated is high and the number of new daily infections is low, everybody should wear a mask.

macelligott

Additional entries have been slow to materialize, but we now have 27 entries.
32 was the maximum allowed last year. Though I believe the ICU hopes to be able to accommodate more entries this year.
It's good to see, also, there will be a <1300 tournament in the same venue the weekend before the championship.

sodacat11

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

But, how would you prove that you have been vaccinated? I think until the number of people vaccinated is high and the number of new daily infections is low, everybody should wear a mask.

We had this debate last year with some people saying that wearing masks was uncomfortable, gave you asthma, stopped you breathing, made your ears fall off, trapped germs etc etc but as far as I know none of the competitors in last year's championship suffered any long term health problems as a result of wearing a mask. Wearing a mask is not ideal but it is a very small price to pay for being able to participate in a real live over the board tournament again.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

macelligott wrote: »

Additional entries have been slow to materialize, but we now have 27 entries.
32 was the maximum allowed last year. Though I believe the ICU hopes to be able to accommodate more entries this year.

This time two years ago we had 17 entries so we're in good shape. One entry per week between now and the event and we're at 42 so I wouldn't really expect any flurries of entries except maybe around the times that entry rates are due to rise.

RooksPawn

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

But, how would you prove that you have been vaccinated? I think until the number of people vaccinated is high and the number of new daily infections is low, everybody should wear a mask.

Proof of being vaccinated is not a problem. Everybody vaccinated in Ireland receives a card showing exactly what they got (including batch number) and when. By the time of the Irish Championships a phone app or some other kind of electronic certificate will probably be in place.

macelligott

1 GM, 4 IM’s, 1 WIM, 8 FM’s, 2 CM’s, 1 WFM, 1 NM.
29 entries.
Looking good so far!

HaraldSchmidt

RooksPawn wrote: »

Proof of being vaccinated is not a problem. Everybody vaccinated in Ireland receives a card showing exactly what they got (including batch number) and when.

I took a photo of my mother's vaccination card. It's a piece of cardboard with a sticker on it. I could easily make a copy of it, sticking my name and date of birth on it, and nobody would know the difference.

This is why in the USA, at least, they are giving out some crytographically secure proof of vaccination. It may still be fakeable, but not by anyone at home with a printer and a supply of stationery.

RooksPawn

HaraldSchmidt wrote: »

I took a photo of my mother's vaccination card. It's a piece of cardboard with a sticker on it. I could easily make a copy of it, sticking my name and date of birth on it, and nobody would know the difference.

This is why in the USA, at least, they are giving out some crytographically secure proof of vaccination. It may still be fakeable, but not by anyone at home with a printer and a supply of stationery.

Evidently you have a fundamental belief in the veniality of your opponents. Do you think they all cheat?

I reckon that something electronic and secure will be put in place by the time international travel resumes on a large scale. The certificates (or whatever they loom like) will be based on the information in the HSE records, collected by GPs and vaccination centres, and the cards in the meantime will be accepted by whoever wants proof.

mikhail

RooksPawn wrote: »

Evidently you have a fundamental belief in the veniality of your opponents. Do you think they all cheat?

Evidently you have a fundamental naivety about the honesty of your opponents. Do you think none of them cheat? :pac:

Inquitus

mikhail wrote: »

Evidently you have a fundamental naivety about the honesty of your opponents. Do you think none of them cheat? :pac:

I would guess blunder checking your moves would be nigh on undetectable in online chess, you play your own moves but simply blunder check them before playing. I would guess that's the approach used by many of the undetected cheaters that are out there? thoughts?

mikhail

Inquitus wrote: »

I would guess blunder checking your moves would be nigh on undetectable in online chess, you play your own moves but simply blunder check them before playing. I would guess that's the approach used by many of the undetected cheaters that are out there? thoughts?

I was just teasing Rookspawn for his confrontational post, and this is a bit off topic, but to answer your question I don't think it'd be undetectable. It probably depends on your propensity to blunder and centipawn loss threshold for changing your move. The higher the former and the lower the latter, the more your average centipawn loss will be statistically strange. I've played through a few games flagged publicly as engine-assisted, and they don't look that strange. I can't imagine how much higher my rating would be if I never made a move that lost more than, say, 0.5 pawns, but you're probably talking hundreds of points. That'll get spotted. Spotted slower than just copying the engine, sure, but it's not invisible.

Inquitus

mikhail wrote: »

I was just teasing Rookspawn for his confrontational post, and this is a bit off topic, but to answer your question I don't think it'd be undetectable. It probably depends on your propensity to blunder and centipawn loss threshold for changing your move. The higher the former and the lower the latter, the more your average centipawn loss will be statistically strange. I've played through a few games flagged publicly as engine-assisted, and they don't look that strange. I can't imagine how much higher my rating would be if I never made a move that lost more than, say, 0.5 pawns, but you're probably talking hundreds of points. That'll get spotted. Spotted slower than just copying the engine, sure, but it's not invisible.

It would only prevent you blundering tactics I would guess, and one move blunders, but if you keep playing your own candidate moves with that sort of sanity check, I am not sure how detectable it would be, you would still lose your fair share of games, but it would defo prevent 1-2 move blunders that would otherwise cost you a game.

I think blatant cheating is obvious, as is taking far too long for simple captures and obvious responses etc. when validating obvious moves with an engine, but if done in a minor way it would likely would be hard to detect especially in longer format games.

The amount of obvious cheating on chess.com verges on the ridiculous, Eric Hansen played at least 2 blatant cheaters in Arena Kings last week, New accounts at IM / GM Elo's and you can see how their play deteriorates from a high level to 1200 level as time runs low, and engine validation becomes impossible due to the time it takes.

macelligott

Rank ICU Irish Championship 2021 FIDE
1 2439 Sam E. Collins IM 2456
2 2369 Alex Baburin GM 2416
3 2419 Conor E. Murphy FM 2394
4 2307 Mark Quinn IM 2370
5 2296 Tarun Kanyamarala FM 2369
6 2282 Mark Heidenfeld IM 2360
7 2311 Conor O'Donnell FM 2331
8 2343 David Fitzsimons IM 2324
9 2280 Stephen Brady FM 2292
10 2261 Colm Daly FM 2285
11 2288 Joe Ryan FM 2271
12 2046 Anthony Doyle 2206
13 2158 John Delaney FM 2191
14 2178 Trisha Kanyamarala WIM 2180
15 2148 Shane Melaugh CM 2161
16 2124 Jonathan O'Connor 2153
17 2131 Daire McMahon FM 2115
18 2035 Peter Carroll CM 2059
19 2032 Kavin Venkatesan 2011
20 2009 John McMorrow 1997
21 1938 Gerard MacElligott CM 1966
22 1914 Peter Cafolla 1958
23 1960 Jonathon Peoples 1953
24 1858 Eamon Keogh NM 1944
25 1880 Diana Mirza WFM 1933
26 1824 Colm Quigley 1924
27 1763 John P. Aherne 1903
28 1966 Adam Collins 1887
29 1805 Conor Nolan 1884
30 1818 Kevin O'Flaherty 1884

macelligott

I count ten former champions entered in this years event. Most probably a record!

Retd.LoyolaCpt

macelligott wrote: »

I count ten former champions entered in this years event. Most probably a record!

As the great man himself said...

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Champions in bold.

Collins, Sam E. IM 2456
Baburin, Alexander GM 2416
Murphy, Conor E FM 2394
Quinn, Mark IM 2370
Kanyamarala, Tarun FM 2369
Heidenfeld, Mark IM 2360
O`Donnell, Conor FM 2331
Fitzsimons, David IM 2324
Brady, Stephen FM 2292
Daly, Colm FM 2285
Ryan, Joseph FM 2271
Doyle, Anthony 2206
Delaney, John FM 2191
Kanyamarala, Trisha WIM 2180
Melaugh, Shane CM 2161
O'Connor, Jonathan 2153
McMahon, Daire FM 2115
Carroll, Peter CM 2059
Venkatesan, Kavin 2011
McMorrow, John 1997
MacElligott, Gerard CM 1966
Cafolla, Peter 1958
Peoples, Jonathon 1953
Keogh, Eamon 1944
Mirza, Diana WFM 1933
Lyons, Brendan 1931
Quigley,Colm 1924
Aherne, John P. 1903
Nolan, Conor 1884
Kevin O'Flaherty 1884
Adam Collins 1887

sodacat11

Inquitus wrote: »

I would guess blunder checking your moves would be nigh on undetectable in online chess, you play your own moves but simply blunder check them before playing. I would guess that's the approach used by many of the undetected cheaters that are out there? thoughts?

I think that anyone who cheats online has serious character defects and possible mental problems and should seek professional help immediately. What possible motive can any sane person have for cheating online?

sodacat11

macelligott wrote: »

I count ten former champions entered in this years event. Most probably a record!

If everyone listed actually plays it will be a fantastic tournament. Sadly we are all too used to seeing entry lists full of esteemed players then a quarter of them withdraw days before the tournament starts.

macelligott

We have already reached the entry total of last year.
There are now 32 entries :-)

Retd.LoyolaCpt

40 entries as of this morning (10 champions in bold). Not expecting too many more, maybe 10-12. Entries now open for the two weekenders.

Collins, Sam E. IM 2456
Baburin, Alexander GM 2416
Murphy, Conor E FM 2394
Quinn, Mark IM 2370
Kanyamarala, Tarun FM 2369
Heidenfeld, Mark IM 2360
O`Donnell, Conor FM 2331
Fitzsimons, David IM 2324
Delaney, Killian FM 2300
Brady, Stephen FM 2292
Daly, Colm FM 2285
Ryan, Joseph FM 2271
Doyle, Anthony 2206
Delaney, John FM 2191
Kanyamarala, Trisha WIM 2180
Melaugh, Shane CM 2161
O'Connor, Jonathan 2153
McMahon, Daire FM 2115
Carroll, Peter CM 2059
Venkatesan, Kavin 2011
McMorrow, John 1997
MacElligott, Gerard CM 1966
Cafolla, Peter 1958
Peoples, Jonathon 1953
Casey, Eoghan 1952
Duffy, Seamus 1945
Keogh, Eamon 1944
Tirziman, Rudolf 1941
Mirza, Diana WFM 1933
Lyons, Brendan 1931
Putar, Lara 1930
Quigley, Colm 1924
Putar, Leon 1918
O'Gorman, Alice 1907
Scott, Luke 1906
Aherne, John P. 1903
Collins, Adam 1887
Nolan, Conor 1884
O'Flaherty, Kevin 1884
Moran, Darragh 1859

sodacat11

We certainly have a field worthy of a 100th Irish Championship only Lopez, Jessl, Li and defending champ O'Gorman missing but still plenty of time for them to enter.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

sodacat11 wrote: »

We certainly have a field worthy of a 100th Irish Championship only Lopez, Jessl, Li and defending champ O'Gorman missing but still plenty of time for them to enter.

I have their odds of playing at something like:
Lopez - 25-50%, Jessel - 0-10%, Li - 25-50%, O'Gorman - 50-75%.

Of the unentered, I have 7 probable, 14 maybe, 10 unlikely (then 120 odd that are eligible but presumably won't play)

cdeb

Retd.LoyolaCpt wrote: »

Of the unentered, I have 7 probable, 14 maybe, 10 unlikely (then 120 odd that are eligible but presumably won't play)

Does this mean there's around 200 players eligible? 40 entered, 30 hopefuls, and 120 others? That's mad. I presume the "others" includes lapsed players, etc? I didn't think it was that high at all.

Edit - actually, to answer my own question, the FIDE rating list for Ireland - including inactive players - has Richard O'Donovan in 100th with a rating of 2052. So I could well see there being another 100 players down to 1900.

The Nov 2019 ICU rating list had 1386 players, and was the biggest in recent times. 124th was the 1900 cut-off. So I guess the difference is inactive players, foreign IRL players who've returned home, and 1900 FIDE being lower than 1900 ICU.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

cdeb wrote: »

Does this mean there's around 200 players eligible? 40 entered, 30 hopefuls, and 120 others? That's mad. I presume the "others" includes lapsed players, etc? I didn't think it was that high at all.

Edit - actually, to answer my own question, the FIDE rating list for Ireland - including inactive players - has Richard O'Donovan in 100th with a rating of 2052. So I could well see there being another 100 players down to 1900.

The Nov 2019 ICU rating list had 1386 players, and was the biggest in recent times. 124th was the 1900 cut-off. So I guess the difference is inactive players, foreign IRL players who've returned home, and 1900 FIDE being lower than 1900 ICU.

my list is very rough but yes, about 225 eligible. The pool of players who would/could realistically play is maybe 100-110.

RooksPawn

cdeb wrote: »

...The FIDE rating list for Ireland - including inactive players - has Richard O'Donovan in 100th with a rating of 2052.

It's unfortunate that 15th on that list is the late Philip Short.