Pregnant teachers, SNAs, School Staff Phased Return to School

inbetweentea

Interested in hearing from other pregnant primary and secondary staff, those planning to be so- or people in the know about school management- in terms of your views on what will happen with phased return to school.
I see (from recent department circular online) that we are now in the high risk category. I'm confused about how this translates to going back. How do we work from home when kids back in school? Do we still teach? Or does school get a sub? Is this yet to be confirmed?
Does Medmark play a part?

strawberrie

If you are not happy to go back to work tell management you are pregnant,they will refer you to medmark for assessment. Until medmark results through, you work remotely and then presumably as pregnant now equals high risk you continue to work from home. Up to you to roll the dice with management though. They don't have to refer you, you have to seek it.

inbetweentea wrote: »

Interested in hearing from other pregnant primary and secondary staff, those planning to be so- or people in the know about school management- in terms of your views on what will happen with phased return to school.
I see (from recent department circular online) that we are now in the high risk category. I'm confused about how this translates to going back. How do we work from home when kids back in school? Do we still teach? Or does school get a sub? Is this yet to be confirmed?
Does Medmark play a part?

inbetweentea

strawberrie wrote: »

If you are not happy to go back to work tell management you are pregnant,they will refer you to medmark for assessment. Until medmark results through, you work remotely and then presumably as pregnant now equals high risk you continue to work from home. Up to you to roll the dice with management though. They don't have to refer you, you have to seek it.

Thank you very much for the reply Strawberrie. Very helpful. I didn't know teachers should contact Medmark themselves.

Is it that it is more a choice rather than mandatory for pregnant teachers to stay out during phased return? Would schools be hoping teachers would stay in then- so saying nothing and hoping for the best unless teachers sort themselves out with a Medmark cert? I was waiting for some kind of government announcement as I don't want to seem like I'm gaming the system and trying not to do my job.

I guess what's particularly confusing is figuring out how I'd work from home as a mainstream teacher as teaching involves a level of crowd control as well as simply teaching..we have a strong Resource/LS dept already, highly skilled etc (I'm inexperienced at this) so I don't know that the school would want me to do some kind of one to one teaching..

ASTI have sent me to their FAQ section on their website but I have no idea how the teaching from home/sub situation works. I'm hoping that there are other teachers in the same boat who can help.

jamesbondings

inbetweentea wrote: »

Thank you very much for the reply Strawberrie. Very helpful. I didn't know teachers should contact Medmark themselves.

Is it that it is more a choice rather than mandatory for pregnant teachers to stay out during phased return? Would schools be hoping teachers would stay in then- so saying nothing and hoping for the best unless teachers sort themselves out with a Medmark cert? I was waiting for some kind of government announcement as I don't want to seem like I'm gaming the system and trying not to do my job.

I guess what's particularly confusing is figuring out how I'd work from home as a mainstream teacher as teaching involves a level of crowd control as well as simply teaching..we have a strong Resource/LS dept already, highly skilled etc (I'm inexperienced at this) so I don't know that the school would want me to do some kind of one to one teaching..

ASTI have sent me to their FAQ section on their website but I have no idea how the teaching from home/sub situation works. I'm hoping that there are other teachers in the same boat who can help.

I just wanted to point you to the voice for teachers page on Facebook. My partner is in the same boat. Very high risk and a very high risk pregnancy (multiples after a miss carriage) medmark have deemed her high risk and "safe" to return to work. We are not satisfied or happy and are hoping the next circular clears up any confusion.

If not we we think unpaid leave is the only way we can ensure her and our unborn children are not at risk.

sullivlo

If it is like the high risk teachers who are working from home, a substitute has been hired to sit in the class and the high risk teacher teaches via teams/zoom etc a few times a week. They liaise with the sub, who delivers the content decided by the teacher teaching from home.

inbetweentea

jamesbondings wrote: »

I just wanted to point you to the voice for teachers page on Facebook. My partner is in the same boat. Very high risk and a very high risk pregnancy (multiples after a miss carriage) medmark have deemed her high risk and "safe" to return to work. We are not satisfied or happy and are hoping the next circular clears up any confusion.

If not we we think unpaid leave is the only way we can ensure her and our unborn children are not at risk.

That is absolutely terrible. She sounds like someone who should be shielding (if that's the right word)- given her challenging situation. I am very sorry to hear she is going through this and sorry for your loss. I plan on asking my ASTI rep to bring this up. We all need to lobby.

2011abc

These HSE/Dept/Medmark etc officials have dictated that pregnant teachers are 'high risk' and only 'very high risk' teachers will be 'released'

byhookorbycrook

2011abc wrote: »

These HSE/Dept/Medmark etc officials have dictated that pregnant teachers are 'high risk' and only 'very high risk' teachers will be 'released'

I can confirm this as “ high risk “ ( despite the consultant who knows me since 2001 being very, very concerned) Medmark operate via an algorithm, which doesn’t take comorbidity into account abs is based on outmoded health advice .

r93kaey5p2izun

What I have been told is that Medmark are not involved at all in the interim arrangement for pregnant teachers during the reopening for special classes and schools. It's to be managed at school level.

lulublue22

Amora Pitiful Strap wrote: »

What I have been told is that Medmark are not involved at all in the interim arrangement for pregnant teachers during the reopening for special classes and schools. It's to be managed at school level.

Just in relation to the above it is also stated that just because it is granted during this phase does not mean it will continue to be so. This is stated in relation to the various leave cat pregnant , high risk and over 60’s so I wouldn’t bank on the guidelines remaining the same for the reopening of mainstream.

r93kaey5p2izun

lulublue22 wrote: »

Just in relation to the above it is also stated that just because it is granted during this phase does not mean it will continue to be so. This is stated in relation to the various leave cat pregnant , high risk and over 60’s so I wouldn’t bank on the guidelines remaining the same for the reopening of mainstream.

Yes, so far the additional protections apply only to the period of reopening of special classes and schools.

strawberrie

School management have gotten no info so far on how this is to work. I'm going by advice from our Diocese
If you are pregnant and consider yourself high risk contact your school management. They should then allow you to work remotely. I've been told at this stage that management should refer you to medmark to ensure you are deemed high risk, but I've also been told that medmark may refer it back to the school (they haven't had guidance either.)
Either way you continue online.
You have to be proactive on this as school management can't turn around to anyone pregnant or over 60 and just say work from home, as it could be seen as discrimination on the basis of age or pregnancy. Contact your school.

inbetweentea

strawberrie wrote: »

School management have gotten no info so far on how this is to work. I'm going by advice from our Diocese
If you are pregnant and consider yourself high risk contact your school management. They should then allow you to work remotely. I've been told at this stage that management should refer you to medmark to ensure you are deemed high risk, but I've also been told that medmark may refer it back to the school (they haven't had guidance either.)
Either way you continue online.
You have to be proactive on this as school management can't turn around to anyone pregnant or over 60 and just say work from home, as it could be seen as discrimination on the basis of age or pregnancy. Contact your school.

Ok, thanks for the advice, helpful again. It's a hard time for pregnant women as it's anxious enough time for a lot of us to begin with -esp with less than straightforward pregnancies and conditions, without trying to weigh up future risks by ourselves. I hope schools are supportive.

byhookorbycrook

At present , high risk are expected to return when schools reopen fully . In any case , contact your principal and let them know about your concerns . Start the Medmark process ASAP and get your cert.

inbetweentea

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

At present , high risk are expected to return when schools reopen fully . In any case , contact your principal and let them know about your concerns . Start the Medmark process ASAP and get your cert.

Yeah good advice, thanks. It is a crazy thought that we could be described as "high risk" and also considered fine to be in a classroom with big groups of teens etc.

Just to add to this- it says this on the Medmark website. "Please be reassured that from the available medical evidence on Covid 19, neither an underlying health condition nor pregnancy increases your risk of acquiring Covid 19 infection. For certain health conditions Covid 19 infection may increase your relative risk of an adverse outcome in terms of the severity of Covid 19 infection."

I find this rather bizarre as it says this on the HSE website:

We are still learning about COVID-19 (coronavirus). We don't fully know how it affects pregnant women and their babies. The information we have so far shows that pregnant women or their babies are not at a higher risk of serious illness if they get COVID-19.

Most pregnant women who get COVID-19 have mild to moderate symptoms. The risk of passing COVID-19 onto your baby is low. But pregnant women with symptoms may be more likely to be admitted to hospital and to need care in an ICU. There may be an increased rate of premature labour and stillbirth if you are pregnant and have COVID-19, whether or not you have symptoms.

Can anybody explain why on earth Medmark knows better than the HSE?

Also- why are pregnant healthcare workers allowed (justifiably) to work from home but teachers cannot?

MarshmallowPop

I am also pregnant and I sent my form through to Medmark over a week ago and got the email back to say I was classed as High Risk but if I follow HSE guidelines, it should be safe to return to work (yeah right!).

This completely conflicts what the INTO told me only 2 weeks ago that we would be classed as High Risk and could work remotely during the phased reopening of ALL schools.

I had to ring Medmark this morning and she explained that this was only changed on Thursday!!! (How sneaky)

I had to contact my principal as she is eager to log my leave and she is reluctant to make the decision as to whether my classroom should be deemed a High Risk environment to work in (it is).

I am now left in a situation where I would have to return to work in a classroom where I deal with a lot of challenging behaviour as it is. It wouldn't be safe in a non Covid situation.

I am also having issues medical issues with my pregnancy and I could be off for a substantial amount of time. I am obviously reluctant to use a lot of leave so early in the pregnancy.

I am waiting for the INTO to ring me back, they are obviously bogged down with queries.

The thing that is frustrating me is that the DES made such a sharp U-turn in such a short space of time!

ulsen

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

I am also pregnant and I sent my form through to Medmark over a week ago and got the email back to say I was classed as High Risk but if I follow HSE guidelines, it should be safe to return to work (yeah right!).

This completely conflicts what the INTO told me only 2 weeks ago that we would be classed as High Risk and could work remotely during the phased reopening of ALL schools.

I had to ring Medmark this morning and she explained that this was only changed on Thursday!!! (How sneaky)

I had to contact my principal as she is eager to log my leave and she is reluctant to make the decision as to whether my classroom should be deemed a High Risk environment to work in (it is).

I am now left in a situation where I would have to return to work in a classroom where I deal with a lot of challenging behaviour as it is. It wouldn't be safe in a non Covid situation.

I am also having issues medical issues with my pregnancy and I could be off for a substantial amount of time. I am obviously reluctant to use a lot of leave so early in the pregnancy.

I am waiting for the INTO to ring me back, they are obviously bogged down with queries.

The thing that is frustrating me is that the DES made such a sharp U-turn in such a short space of time!

Did you get a new cert from Medmark with high risk and should not work?- if it changed since Thursday. I'm not pregnant, but high risk. Medmark gave me high risk cert saying I could work. I was back to work today, so confused as to what the situation is.

MarshmallowPop

ulsen wrote: »

Did you get a new cert from Medmark with high risk and should not work?- if it changed since Thursday. I'm not pregnant, but high risk. Medmark gave me high risk cert saying I could work. I was back to work today, so confused as to what the situation is.

I got the cert from Medmark on Thursday, the exact day they changed their recommendations for all pregnant women who are not in the Higher Risk category to return to work. Coincidental timing huh!

MarshmallowPop

I have got further clarification about this from my union. All pregnant teachers who work in special classes/schools can work remotely up until all classes and school are reopened which is looking like the 15th of March at the moment.

This applies to primary schools and I am not sure where mainstream pregnant teachers stand yet.

I don't understand why they had to complicate this issue in the last few days with confusing literature being released about this matter.

I can breathe again now

jamesbondings

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

I have got further clarification about this from my union. All pregnant teachers who work in special classes/schools can work remotely up until all classes and school are reopened which is looking like the 15th of March at the moment.

This applies to primary schools and I am not sure where mainstream pregnant teachers stand yet.

I don't understand why they had to complicate this issue in the last few days with confusing literature being released about this matter.

I can breathe again now

Yes, but my concern for my partner is what changes on March 15th? The risk for a teacher in a special class is still the same (actually higher in her class as they are currently split up for now, but presumably will be brought back together).
I am not a teacher or gov worker at all, but would love to know how a private organisation, over rules medical practitioners, consultants and doctors in relation to a high risk pregnancy. No talk of this issue anywhere that I can see.
I do think that we will see an exodus of nurses, midwives, drs, and perhaps even teachers. My partner is not happy with the position she is being put in - to choose between her job/salary and security and our unborn children, really is farcical.

MarshmallowPop

jamesbondings wrote: »

Yes, but my concern for my partner is what changes on March 15th? The risk for a teacher in a special class is still the same (actually higher in her class as they are currently split up for now, but presumably will be brought back together).
I am not a teacher or gov worker at all, but would love to know how a private organisation, over rules medical practitioners, consultants and doctors in relation to a high risk pregnancy. No talk of this issue anywhere that I can see.
I do think that we will see an exodus of nurses, midwives, drs, and perhaps even teachers. My partner is not happy with the position she is being put in - to choose between her job/salary and security and our unborn children, really is farcical.

Could your wife demand a Health an Safety Review?

I know I will be if and when I have to return to work.

Also, does your wife know about the Pregnancy Related Sick Leave? I think this does not exhaust your sick leave when you run out of the 26 weeks full and half pay.

I would keep sending forms into Medmark until I got the answer I wanted!

byhookorbycrook

Medmark work to a formula , you can send in as many forms as you like , but until the formula is revised , you will continue to get the same answer .

strawberrie

Confirmation today from INTO that pregnant staff can continue to work remotely without a Medmark assessment during this phase reopening. A new information note 005/2021 has been issued by the DES about it.

inbetweentea

Good luck everyone as we navigate this time. I am feeling huge relief now.

jamesbondings

Just an FYI.

We had a consultant visit during the week. My partner brought up medmarks stance with the consultant who was shocked. The consultant then wrote a letter to medmark outlining exactly why she was deeming my partner very high risk (all of which had been submitted before but only from a gp). My partner submitted the letter the other day.

This morning medmark ammended her from high risk to very high risk and now the stress has well and truly lifted. She has nearly become another person now that she doesn't need to worry. So to whomever mentioned keeping on top of medmark they were spot on!

Summer2020

“HSE notified of four reports of stillbirths potentially associated with Covid Placentitis condition“

https://m.independent.ie/latest-news/a-39-further-deaths-and-462-new-cases-as-hse-notified-of-four-reports-of-stillbirths-potentially-associated-with-covid-placentitis-condition-40160197.html

Surely on foot of this no pregnant teacher should be going back to the classroom

MarshmallowPop

jamesbondings wrote: »

Just an FYI.

We had a consultant visit during the week. My partner brought up medmarks stance with the consultant who was shocked. The consultant then wrote a letter to medmark outlining exactly why she was deeming my partner very high risk (all of which had been submitted before but only from a gp). My partner submitted the letter the other day.

This morning medmark ammended her from high risk to very high risk and now the stress has well and truly lifted. She has nearly become another person now that she doesn't need to worry. So to whomever mentioned keeping on top of medmark they were spot on!

That is a brillant outcome for you both. I am so happy for you both and it is great peace of mind to not have to worry about eating into sick leave.

I have been pretty much bed bound with a medical issue around my pregnancy for the last 2 weeks.

I do not have any underlying conditions but this pregnancy has thrown up complications.

I am not due until October but I am petrified about returning to work. Realistically I will be off for a substantial amount of time and I can see myself using a lot of sick leave.

I am just hoping for the INTO to push to extend this period of pregnant women being classed as high risk.

I have contacted them to see where I stand in all of this.

MarshmallowPop

Summer2020 wrote: »

“HSE notified of four reports of stillbirths potentially associated with Covid Placentitis condition“

https://m.independent.ie/latest-news/a-39-further-deaths-and-462-new-cases-as-hse-notified-of-four-reports-of-stillbirths-potentially-associated-with-covid-placentitis-condition-40160197.html

Surely on foot of this no pregnant teacher should be going back to the classroom

Ah I don't know if I want to read that article.

I just hope this period is extended. I think pregnancy is hard enough without having to think about contracting Covid on top of everything else.

ethical

Good luck to all the expectant teachers.
Isnt it rather sad that Norma and her gang put such little value on a teachers life.Fight your corner and tell them to "kindly fcuk off" and look after your baby.

Schools are back only a week and some have had to send classes home already due to positive COVID19 outbreaks amongst Leaving Certs.
The interesting thing is that we do not seem to have gotten any further than before Christmas.I know of a case ,the other day,where a student was Covid positive and yet only one teacher was "named" as a CLOSE CONTACT,yet the student had class with at least 4 other teachers that day with one teacher having two double classes (2 different subjects) with said student ,yet this teacher was NOT deemed a close contact!!! Same as before Christmas,nothing has changed,schools are safe,teachers do not get Covid and Norma is the best Education Minister EVVVVVVEEEEERRRRRRR! Who the fcuk are we fooling!

inbetweentea

Hi,
I have to second what another poster said about going to Consultant. My consultant and GP both said they don't think teachers should be on site.
I am happy people are getting help with this.
For those who are not on site- can I ask what kind of tasks your school is getting you to do?
How will you teach classes (like Junior classes) online or is it a sub situation? I'm finding this very confusing. I don't know what longterm plan will be when everyone is back...for now online works but what happens then?

MarshmallowPop

inbetweentea wrote: »

Hi,
I have to second what another poster said about going to Consultant. My consultant and GP both said they don't think teachers should be on site.
I am happy people are getting help with this.
For those who are not on site- can I ask what kind of tasks your school is getting you to do?
How will you teach classes (like Junior classes) online or is it a sub situation? I'm finding this very confusing. I don't know what longterm plan will be when everyone is back...for now online works but what happens then?

From what I gather, it is at the discretion of your principal in what kind of tasks you are given.

At the minute, I am teaching some children who are off school for Covid related reasons. The teacher puts the work up on SeeSaw the evening before and I have a look at the work and see if there are any videos, links I could add to help the children.

I correct the work during the school day.

Next week they are going back to school so I will complete paperwork, assessments, resources etc to be sent to school for my own class and I will continue to support children at home.

byhookorbycrook

Interesting in the context that “ schools are safe” is still being trotted out, yet staff are considered unsafe in the environment. It will also be interesting to see if other “ high risk” staff will be upgraded to very high risk as a result of this . And imagine all the subs that will be needed , if only to cover maternity related leave .

Millem

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Interesting in the context that “ schools are safe” is still being trotted out, yet staff are considered unsafe in the environment. It will also be interesting to see if other “ high risk” staff will be upgraded to very high risk as a result of this . And imagine all the subs that will be needed , if only to cover maternity related leave .

So can all pregnant staff work remotely now...when full school reopens?

wirelessdude01

Millem wrote: »

So can all pregnant staff work remotely now...when full school reopens?

As it currently stands, that dispensation for primary school teachers and staff will end on March the 12th.

inbetweentea

Yes I can see the duties being at discretion of school Marshmallow Pop. That actually makes sense.

MarshmallowPop

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As it currently stands, that dispensation for primary school teachers and staff will end on March the 12th.

When I rang the INTO 2 weeks ago to query something Medmark had told me, they said it was their number 1 priority to get this period extended. They might have been fobbing me off to get me off the phone but I hope not

wirelessdude01

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

When I rang the INTO 2 weeks ago to query something Medmark had told me, they said it was their number 1 priority to get this period extended. They might have been fobbing me off to get me off the phone but I hope not

If Norma or anyone from The DES told me the weather I'd check it myself. You can be sure that the wording of this was very deliberately done. INTO have been caught on the hop with regards to it.

Moody_mona

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

As it currently stands, that dispensation for primary school teachers and staff will end on March the 12th.

Is secondary after Easter then?

wirelessdude01

Moody_mona wrote: »

Is secondary after Easter then?

As it currently stands.

Millem

https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/coronavirus-covid19/Information_note_tc0010_2021.pdf

So it looks like high risk staff are back. Pregnant staff can continue to work from home until further clarification is sought.

MarshmallowPop

Millem wrote: »

https://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/coronavirus-covid19/Information_note_tc0010_2021.pdf

So it looks like high risk staff are back. Pregnant staff can continue to work from home until further clarification is sought.

My head is always spinning after these announcements.

Can they not give us a definitive answer...

Like...Pregnant will be working remotely until after the Easter holidays and we will review this the week prior to schools reopening.

I feel like we are stuck in Limbo Land a lot.

inbetweentea

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

My head is always spinning after these announcements.

Can they not give us a definitive answer...

Like...Pregnant will be working remotely until after the Easter holidays and we will review this the week prior to schools reopening.

I feel like we are stuck in Limbo Land a lot.

Yes they should make it clear. I feel that pregnant women will be allowed to work from home until summer- it makes sense but I've been wrong before!

MarshmallowPop

inbetweentea wrote: »

Yes they should make it clear. I feel that pregnant women will be allowed to work from home until summer- it makes sense but I've been wrong before!

This would be the ideal.

My initial gut feeling said a few more weeks but who knows.

Millem

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

This would be the ideal.

My initial gut feeling said a few more weeks but who knows.

My gut is a few weeks then back after Easter. Personally I wouldn’t take the chance!! I think it would be sick leave unfortunately.

byhookorbycrook

If you are “ out” before and after the Easter holidays on sick leave, you holidays are counted as sick leave .

Millem

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

If you are “ out” before and after the Easter holidays on sick leave, you holidays are counted as sick leave .

I know but sure what can you do!
I was going to take sick leave if schools hadn’t closed last year in March when I was pregnant. It’s not a risk I would take.

On a side note I would recommend income protection!!
Hopefully the unions will secure an agreement that pregnant staff can work from home.

MarshmallowPop

Millem wrote: »

I know but sure what can you do!
I was going to take sick leave if schools hadn’t closed last year in March when I was pregnant. It’s not a risk I would take.

On a side note I would recommend income protection!!
Hopefully the unions will secure an agreement that pregnant staff can work from home.

As soon as my child is finished with creche at the end of June and those fees can stop, I am going to take out Income Protection.

If remote working for pregnant teachers is not continued, my sick leave will be gone by October for basically 4 years.

Not a position I want to be in but my and baby's health is my priority.

Millem

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

As soon as my child is finished with creche at the end of June and those fees can stop, I am going to take out Income Protection.

If remote working for pregnant teachers is not continued, my sick leave will be gone by October for basically 4 years.

Not a position I want to be in but my and baby's health is my priority.

It’s a disaster. Sometimes Cornmarket have deals on income protection eg 6 months free. Check it out.
I think I pay 1.62% of gross salary.

Never had to use it thank god but good to know it’s there

byhookorbycrook

MarshmallowPop wrote: »

As soon as my child is finished with creche at the end of June and those fees can stop, I am going to take out Income Protection.

If remote working for pregnant teachers is not continued, my sick leave will be gone by October for basically 4 years.

Not a position I want to be in but my and baby's health is my priority.

I have most of mine used up. Be careful with income protection,C**nm**et are experts at weaseling out of claims.

MarshmallowPop

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have most of mine used up. Be careful with income protection,C**nm**et are experts at weaseling out of claims.

That is unfortunate for you

I am planning on going to a good financial advisor and getting good advice on this kind of thing.

Would you happen to know- if I was going to be off until October, if I went back in June for a few days and back in September for a few days, would they count the full summer as sick leave then?

Thank you

Millem

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have most of mine used up. Be careful with income protection,C**nm**et are experts at weaseling out of claims.

That’s terrible it’s New Ireland I think that make the decisions. They are the underwriters. My mum had to claim with it and my friend is currently claiming.
They have added a specified illness benefit which came in very useful for her. You get 25% of your salary in a lump sum when you are diagnosed with certain illnesses. If you have to retire early on ill health grounds they continue to top up your pension/salary until you are 60. Something I never even looked at when I took it out.