FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) No trading

Lelila

Juryisout1996 wrote: »

1. McGee v AG - Privacy.

2. Connolly v An Bord Pleanala - Fair Procedures (heightened duty to give reasons by administrative decisions makers).

3. DPP v Doyle - Trial in Due Course of law (right to have a solicitor present during questioning).

4. Can't remember.

If you DM your email I can forward on what I prepped, even just to get an idea of the length, depth and detail required for Con notes. I went with Connolly and Doyle on the day and did quite well in the exam.

Do you mind me asking what grade you got in the exam? (Just wondering what a good grade is). Thanks.

FE1Hopefully1

Lelila wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what grade you got in the exam? (Just wondering what a good grade is). Thanks.

A good grade is a pass haha

Sesh0nm0m

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

A good grade is a pass haha

fr... people coming on here being like I only scored in the 60s and I'm like bro this ain't your degree I got real problems

bobbyness

Hi Everyone! Got blindsided by a 48 in property.. Was 100% sure I'd got a nice pass..

Getting it remarked and hoping I go up so am assuming it as already passed for the sake of my sanity.

Onto constitutional and EU Law for the next ones. On that note, would anyone have any exam grids or extra info that could help with my studies? I never covered the topics in my graduate or post-graduate law degrees and feeling overloaded by all the new information.

Good luck to everyone with their remarks, and let's make the next one a blinder!

FE1Hopefully1

bobbyness wrote: »

Hi Everyone! Got blindsided by a 48 in property.. Was 100% sure I'd got a nice pass..

Getting it remarked and hoping I go up so am assuming it as already passed for the sake of my sanity.

Onto constitutional and EU Law for the next ones. On that note, would anyone have any exam grids or extra info that could help with my studies? I never covered the topics in my graduate or post-graduate law degrees and feeling overloaded by all the new information.

Good luck to everyone with their remarks, and let's make the next one a blinder!

I’m also doing constitutional and you can’t really leave much out I’m afraid it’s very unpredictable

Eu I sat in November and it is quite predictable

So institutions, direct effect, free movement of workers citizenship, free movement of goods and judicial review almost always come up

maggie95

Response from Ombudsman:

"I wish to acknowledge receipt of your complaint regarding the Law Society of Ireland.

The Ombudsman's remit in relation to the Law Society is extremely limited. The Law Society has two functions that are within the remit; disciplinary complaints and compensation fund applications. As this complaint relates to the organisation of exams, it is not within the Ombudsman’s remit.

I am sorry the Ombudsman could not be of assistance to you on this occasion."

Breacnua

bobbyness wrote: »

Hi Everyone! Got blindsided by a 48 in property.. Was 100% sure I'd got a nice pass..

Getting it remarked and hoping I go up so am assuming it as already passed for the sake of my sanity.

Onto constitutional and EU Law for the next ones. On that note, would anyone have any exam grids or extra info that could help with my studies? I never covered the topics in my graduate or post-graduate law degrees and feeling overloaded by all the new information.

Good luck to everyone with their remarks, and let's make the next one a blinder!

so so close
Def get it re-checked!

Sesh0nm0m

Breacnua wrote: »

Many thanks for your email. We fully understand that Covid-19 is a source of stress to candidates. The Law School is working hard to minimise the impact that this unprecedented situation is having on candidates and to put in place measures that are as fair as possible to all Final Examination First Part (FE-1) candidates while preserving the integrity of the examination.

Background

It may be helpful to provide you with the following background information. Two sittings of the FE-1 are held each year, normally in early March and October. The March 2020 sitting of the FE-1 was scheduled to take place between 5 and 16 March, with EU Law taking place on Friday 13 March and Law of Torts on Monday 16 March. On the morning of Thursday 12 March 2020, the Government issued advice that indoor mass gatherings of more than 100 should be cancelled. The Society contacted all candidates sitting the final two FE-1 examinations (EU Law and the Law of Torts) within two hours of the announcement and offered them the option of withdrawing from their examinations and obtaining a full refund. Candidates were also advised that an additional sitting of the examinations in European Union Law and the Law of Torts would be held as soon as the current health crisis permitted.

Having considered the public health advice available at the time and the Government’s roadmap for reopening society and business, the Society’s Education Committee decided that the earliest possible dates on which an additional sitting of the FE-1 Law of Torts and EU Law papers could be held was 11 and 13 August 2020.

In planning for the August 2020 sitting of the FE1, the Law School contracted specialist health and safety consultants to undertake a risk assessment and to liaise with the HSE and HSA. The Society worked closely with the various exam venues (22 exam venues across Dublin and Cork) to implement the expert recommendations and the sittings fully complied with public health rules and guidelines.

As well as requiring each candidate to fill out a detailed questionnaire regarding exposure to Covid-19 and risk, some of the key safeguards that the Law Society put in place included:

• Two-metre spacing between desks.
• A maximum of 50 people in each examination hall, per Government guidelines for indoor gatherings at the time. Each hall had a designated, trained Covid Compliance Officer present.
• All candidates and invigilators were required to wear face masks.
• Systems were put in place to prevent congregating before and after exams.
• Appropriate cleaning measures were developed and implemented for each venue.

We also provided a separate venue for high-risk candidates and candidates with disabilities.

The Society’s Education Committee was confident that the above arrangements would allow us to hold the usual October 2020 sitting of the FE-1.

November 2020 FE1

Following the Government’s decision of 19 September 2020 to move Dublin to Level 3 of its Living with Covid Plan, the Society postponed the FE-1 to 3 to 16 November and we immediately secured a number of examination venues in Limerick, Galway, Tralee, Sligo and Kilkenny in addition to our usual multiple venues in Dublin and Cork. It was hoped that by avoiding all candidates having to travel to Dublin and Cork it would be possible to hold the examinations safely in November. As a result of the Government decision of 5 October holding physical examinations in November was not then possible. On 6 October we communicated with all FE1 students and posted the following notice establishing a dedicated helpline for all FE 1 candidates:

We fully understand that the current pandemic is causing a great deal of stress to candidates.

We had hoped to provide a physical examination in November but the government restrictions announced last night have made this impossible.

We are working to provide an online examination that will preserve the integrity of the examination and will have further information early next week.

In the meantime, we have set up a helpline to deal with any queries. If you wish to avail of this service, please contact Marie Henry at 01 881 5762.

A dedicated helpline was set up for candidates and the majority of those who contacted the helpline understood the difficulties we faced in organising examinations for a large number of candidates in a constantly evolving public health situation.

Since March 2020 we have been working to provide an online examination solution that is fair to all candidates and preserves the integrity of the examination but there have been a number of issues we have had to address.

Online examinations on the scale of the FE1 (with 2,000 candidates) present serious difficulties for some candidates. Candidates from socio-economically deprived backgrounds without access to adequate broadband, laptops or a suitable venue in which to sit an examination are at a considerable disadvantage. Candidates living in rural areas without reliable broadband are also disadvantaged. Many candidates are anxious about sitting an examination in a different format and are concerned that they will be disadvantaged if they have poor typing skills or find IT intimidating.

It was very difficult to find an online provider that could cater for the almost 2,000 candidates that normally sit the FE1 examinations. The main Irish provider of online examinations can cater for a maximum of 200 candidates per examination.

The challenge in holding the FE-1 online was complicated by the fact that it is a closed book examination which is designed to test academic knowledge. This knowledge is not examined again during the professional training courses. It is therefore of paramount importance that all solicitors qualifying have a minimum level of knowledge in the areas of law examined by the FE1. This is vital to ensure that the public approaching a solicitor for advice can be confident that each solicitor qualifying has a minimum core knowledge in the examinations comprising the FE1.

Despite the challenges to candidates presented by online examinations, when the Government moved the country to Level 3 and then Level 5 in October 2020, we had no alternative but to proceed with an online examination in order to allow candidates to progress with their training. We engaged intensively with several international providers (Pearson Vue, Cirrus, Proctor U) following the announcement by the Government on 5 October. Our aim was to preserve the original amended dates announced of 3 to 13 November. We also consulted a number of professional bodies (Kings Inns, Royal College of Physicians and Chartered Accountants) about their experience of online exams.

Detailed due diligence followed. This involved contacting customer references and intensive discussions with a large South African provider that had used the Better Examinations system we had selected and ranked it first place out of 21 applicants in its tendering process. Having considered the options available, it was decided to proceed with the Better Examinations option.

We immediately undertook a detailed Data Protection Impact Assessment with the assistance of Mazars. Several protocols were developed along with guidance notes to enable the examination to proceed online between 3 and 13 November. Three mock examinations were provided to students. Moreover, we provided a number of smaller mock exams for candidates who could not attend the three main sessions. A helpline staffed by four members of staff was available from 8.15am to 5pm on each day of the mock examinations and on each examination day. All candidates who didn’t participate in the mock examinations were contacted by email and/or telephone to offer any help that might be needed to log on to Better Examinations.

The Law School convened a meeting of the FE1 Board of Examiners (which includes leading academics in the eight subject areas comprising the Final Examination First Part and two public interest representatives) and outlined the proposals for the online FE1 Examination, including the safeguards we had built into the system. There was unequivocal support for the proposal.

The FE1 Examinations commenced on 3 November and concluded on 13 November. 1,509 candidates sat the November examination and 3,830 examinations were attempted.

Issues raised in your letter

We understand that the changes in the examination dates have been difficult for candidates but we have made every effort to provide as much information as possible after each change in government regulations. The Law School has sought at all stages to keep students updated on developments by email and through postings on its website. There was never a commitment to issue the FE1 results prior to Christmas. Given the examinations concluded on 13 November, such a deadline would not have been reasonable if the normal rigour that applies to the correction of the FE1 examination was to be applied. In the interests of clarity, the following is a brief summary of communications with students subsequent to the FE1 concluding in mid-November.

The FE1 unit liaised with the examiners to settle a date for issuing results to the 1,509 students in the fortnight after the examinations concluded. A request was made of examiners that the results be expedited. A notice was posted to the Law Society website on 21 November stating that the results would issue in the week commencing 11 January. On 11 January, a notice was posted stating that the results would issue on Thursday 14 January at 11am, which is what happened. All candidates were also sent an email with this information.

In the penultimate paragraph of your letter reference is made to the timing of the FE1 March 2021 sitting. The FE1 examinations normally occur in early March. It is not the case that the examinations were brought forward. That said, we understand and are very sympathetic to the difficulties many candidates are experiencing while adapting to the very challenging circumstances caused by the pandemic. We have received representations from a number of candidates that a longer period of preparation would assist with the challenges caused by the pandemic.

Having taken the concerns expressed by candidates into consideration, we issued a notice last Friday stating that the next sitting of the FE-1 will now be held online in late March as you have suggested. Students have also received an email with this information. I set out below the revised timetable for your information.

Criminal Law Tuesday 23 March 2021
Constitutional Law Wednesday 24 March 2021
Equity Thursday 25 March 2021
Company Law Friday 26 March 2021
Contract Monday 29 March 2021
Property Tuesday 30 March 2021
EU Wednesday 31 March 2021
Tort Thursday 01 April 2021

In conclusion, the Society is unequivocally committed to providing timely and regular updates to all FE1 candidates and has endeavoured at all stages to prioritise the welfare of FE1 candidates.

Yours sincerely,

James Cahill
President

What on earth is going on here? Why is he copying and pasting loads of random bits? Was this in relation to a complaint about exam results?

awsah

Sesh0nm0m wrote: »

What on earth is going on here? Why is he copying and pasting loads of random bits? Was this in relation to a complaint about exam results?

Also half the stuff he mentions was never communicated to us

Sesh0nm0m

awsah wrote: »

Also half the stuff he mentions was never communicated to us

Well James my welfare has been massively impacted in a negative way... also why does he not mention the exam results once? Deflecting away from the issue.

FE1Hopefully1

Sesh0nm0m wrote: »

Well James my welfare has been massively impacted in a negative way... also why does he not mention the exam results once? Deflecting away from the issue.

We don’t know what the letter sent said ? It might not have complained about results at all

Sesh0nm0m

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

We don’t know what the letter sent said ? It might not have complained about results at all

I know that's what I'm asking but either way nothing he said seems useful or helpful in any way?

LawBoy2018

If only 1,509 students sat the FE1s in November, compared to the 2,000 in normal times, that may explain why the exams were marked harshly. Examiners may have wanted to maintain their previous pass rate %?

examsfe12021

Anyone know what topics came up in the last sitting of constitutional?

BBall2015

law1234567 wrote: »

Can anyone who sat constitutional in November remember the case note cases that came up? Cant find a copy of the paper anywhere

I can't remember all 4, just the 2 that I answered, DPP v Doyle 2017 and McGee v AG 1973 were on the paper!

FE1Hopefully1

examsfe12021 wrote: »

Anyone know what topics came up in the last sitting of constitutional?

Paper is uploaded a few pages back

Sesh0nm0m

Lads if you've applied for rechecks do you need to pay before the 29th? Still haven't got the link....

EmmaO94

Just sent a looooog email to the President there re mark schemes - will keep you updated.

If this doesn't work... FOI request...?

rightytighty

For results March 2019 I requested a recheck form and GDPR’d my exam paper. Filled out the form and sent it back and just didn’t pay on the grounds I couldn’t view my script due to covid etc. I eventually got my script but they processed the recheck anyway without payment

FE1Hopefully1

EmmaO94 wrote: »

Just sent a looooog email to the President there re mark schemes - will keep you updated.

If this doesn't work... FOI request...?

I think the issue is the fact that law exams are subjective it’s all about how your paper reads to the examiner

Tbh I have never seen a marking scheme for any exams I’ve done in law

But I do think that there should be comments on the paper to give you an idea of what you missed on

FE1s2021

Has anyone managed to get a copy of the November Equity paper? Thanks

EmmaO94

FE1Hopefully1 wrote: »

I think the issue is the fact that law exams are subjective it’s all about how your paper reads to the examiner

Tbh I have never seen a marking scheme for any exams I’ve done in law

But I do think that there should be comments on the paper to give you an idea of what you missed on

I'm surprised ya were never issued with mark schemes! We used them widely on my degree, with whole classes devoted to them. We studied them to the nth degree.

I just think it's common sense like how can we be expected to put so much time, energy & money into these exams and not know precisely what the examiner's are looking for. Like their marking is up the left (at the best of times) with most of our marks being in the 50's when we'd be getting 2.1/firsts at college level. We need transparency urgently I think.

FE1Hopefully1

EmmaO94 wrote: »

I'm surprised ya were never issued with mark schemes! We used them widely on my degree, with whole classes devoted to them. We studied them to the nth degree.

I just think it's common sense like how can we be expected to put so much time, energy & money into these exams and not know precisely what the examiner's are looking for. Like their marking is up the left (at the best of times) with most of our marks being in the 50's when we'd be getting 2.1/firsts at college level. We need transparency urgently I think.

Never the college had a marking scheme as in like what was an a grade but there was no department specific ones and no lecturer ever really told us what was a or b standard other than equity when she showed us previous students exam answers at different levels

But even still she didn’t have anything specific on them just like it wasn’t up to standard

We also never got our essays back with any markings 😂

TCPIP

EmmaO94 wrote: »

Just sent a looooog email to the President there re mark schemes - will keep you updated.

If this doesn't work... FOI request...?

Law Society isn't a body covered under the FOI Acts.

TCPIP

TCPIP wrote: »

Law Society isn't a body covered under the FOI Acts.

Jeez, they really are just a law unto their own aren’t they!

TCPIP

Deleted User wrote: »

Jeez, they really are just a law unto their own aren’t they!

This is the thing. I genuinely think the only avenue to get a marking scheme from them would be to take a fair procedures case. But even then the examiner reports would probably suffice as being indicative.

law1234567

FE1s2021 wrote: »

Here's a copy of the Nov constitutional paper if anyone needs it

thank you!!

FE1_2020_

Has anyone been able to get their hands on the November equity exam paper ? Dying to get another look at it while I wait for my exam script!

FE1s2021

I know the marking seemed to be a lot harsher for equity this sitting but was there anything unexpected on the paper?
I'm conscious that there is a new examiner and just want to make sure for studying that the November paper was a similar format to previous ones.

FE1Hopefully1

FE1s2021 wrote: »

I know the marking seemed to be a lot harsher for equity this sitting but was there anything unexpected on the paper?
I'm conscious that there is a new examiner and just want to make sure for studying that the November paper was a similar format to previous ones.

No nothing unexpected it was actually a really nice paper- no injunctions came up which was the only unusual thing

There was a note question with the rule in strong v bird, Hastings- bass and one other and you did two
Problem q on estoppel
Problem q re undue influence
Essay in trusteeship
Problem question on donatio mortis causa
Problem q on charitable trusts and cy pres

I can’t remember the other two but I think there was a specific performance question

I was one of the lucky ones that passed it I got 60%