Buying next to Social House MOD WARNING POST #118

DubLad69

Hi all,

We are in the middle of purchasing a house in a new development in a typical middle class area. It turns out that the house opposite us and the house next door are both social houses which the estate agent tried to hide from us.

I grew up in a council estate, so I'm not even sure why I am worried about it. I recently visited a development that was 100% social housing, and the place looked very run down already. And it got me worried about the who might end up moving next door.

Does anyone have experience of social housing in a new development? Or does anyone know how Kildare CC deal with anti social behaviour if it was to come to it. I know it seems very judgmental of me, I'm just worried as I am spending almost half a million on my house and all I want is peace and quiet and am just panicking a little.

The alternative is to get a house without social tenants next door but is much smaller.

smellyoldboot

Well, you grew up in social housing so you should know the craic. It's worse now. Don't walk away. Run.

Idbatterim

LOL! they want full fat price for it now, what if they are awful neighbours? how much will you get for it if you go to sell it? Is it terraced, semi d or detached?

i would say they would be the same here as any other council, do absolutely nothing and it would take years to get rid of them, if they every got rid of them, if they are the neighbours from hell. They will just have to rehouse them. they cant be arsed. They would have your life a misery, before they would put themselves out for a split second

DubLad69

DubLad69 wrote: »

does anyone know how Kildare CC deal with anti social behaviour

Same as all the other councils - they give you the run around and then shrug their shoulders at you.

Rubberchikken

I've no personal experience of social housing but so accept that some people living there are troublesome.
People living in private housing can be the same.
Its not the house, just the people.

The council may be slow to act but they might get there in the end if there were issues.
What can someone do with troublesome neighbours that own their home? That's very difficult imo.

Only you can really decide if you're willing to spend the money on this house. Every house purchase is a gamble imo.

jimmycrackcorm

DubLad69 wrote: »

Does anyone have experience of social housing in a new development? Or does anyone know how Kildare CC deal with anti social behaviour if it was to come to it. I know it seems very judgmental of me, I'm just worried as I am spending almost half a million on my house and all I want is peace and quiet and am just panicking a little.

The alternative is to get a house without social tenants next door but is much smaller.

My ex was buying a house after we separated. It was a good price, liked it and put a deposit on it, so she went to call into the next-door neighbours after to ask them about the area. The parents were smoking weed, their house was a mess inside and their kids running wild. so she pulled out. It explained why the price was so good. After she cancelled and got her deposit back, the house price went down 10K on Daft. Incidentally, the estate had a bad reputation, which I thought was unfair, e.g. a fairly big estate and one news incident about a gang attack on a particular house - could have happened anywhere as it might not have been a council purchased house, but her neighbour visit just sealed the impression.

She since bought in another close-by area, the difference with the neighbours is obvious by the way they take care of their houses.

So why take a chance with such a huge amount of money? Get a smaller house and then remodel/build an extension later to suit your needs.

The problem in this country is that, while it's not right to generalise social housing tenants as all bad, it's pot luck because there is literally nothing you can do if they aren't good. They have no incentive to be good neighbours, and they cannot be removed bar exceptional reasons.

jimmycrackcorm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Well, you grew up in social housing so you should know the craic. It's worse now. Don't walk away. Run.

It wasn't social housing, but council housing. Social housing now is about spreading the bad eggs amongst everyone, instead of just one bad estate.

So nowadays, instead of the one council estate having a bad reputation, you now get five mixed estates with a bad name.

Hulk Hands

Are the houses beside you assigned as social or are the tenants already living there?

Is an agent obliged to tell you which houses are assigned as social ahead of time, if you ask?

DubLad69

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Are the houses beside you assigned as social or are the tenants already living there?

Is an agent obliged to tell you which houses are assigned as social ahead of time, if you ask?

They are assigned to Kildare CC. I'm not sure if they are obliged, but I found out from planning documents which they have since deleted.

DubLad69 all I am going to ask you is this. How much do you like this house?

Because no matter what new development you decide to buy in now, there is going to be minimum 10% social housing. And having grown up in a council estate, I hope you know that not everyone who lives in social housing is a multi-generational scumbag, though you will read many sweeping generalisations about social housing tenants here.

If you feel that worried about it, see if there is another house in the development you can switch too. But if your neighbour is a private buyer, who also turns out to be an anti-social scumbag, you have even less chance of getting any type of redress than you would with council tenant next door.

Mellor

Idbatterim wrote: »

LOL! they want full fat price for it now, what if they are awful neighbours? how much will you get for it if you go to sell it?

About 10% of houses in new developments for the last 15 years are social housing. I doesn't seem to affect the prices in the market generally.

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Is an agent obliged to tell you which houses are assigned as social ahead of time, if you ask?

I doubt they are.

jimmycrackcorm

Deleted User wrote: »

If you feel that worried about it, see if there is another house in the development you can switch too. But if your neighbour is a private buyer, who also turns out to be an anti-social scumbag, you have even less chance of getting any type of redress than you would with council tenant next door.

But that's the key difference, especially in a new-build estate. Bar a private buyer being a drug lord, and even then they are the type who don't want to draw any attention to themselves, they are totally invested in being good neighbours because they also have an appreciation of putting their hard-earned money into it.

Your point is very valid. A private buyer can have their house repossessed, but a council house is for life, and the life of their kids also. There are no repercussions for anti-social behaviour.

That is is the sole reason for the bias against social housing policy and no politician will touch it.

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But that's the key difference, especially in a new-build estate. Bar a private buyer being a drug lord, and even then they are the type who don't want to draw any attention to themselves, they are totally invested in being good neighbours because they also have an appreciation of putting their hard-earned money into it.

Your point is very valid. A private buyer can have their house repossessed, but a council house is for life, and the life of their kids also. There are no repercussions for anti-social behaviour.

That is is the sole reason for the bias against social housing policy and no politician will touch it.

I think it is niave to assume that just because someone is buying privately and keeps their house nice that they are totally invested in being a good neighbour. There are multiple ways someone can make their neighbour's life a living hell, before having to descend to the level of drug lord. People are selfish, and assholes are commonplace.

My advice to the OP stands, if he likes the estate and is worried, go to the agent and see if another house is available elsewhere in the development. Or he could move on to another development altogether and never find out where the social housing is, because the EA is not obliged to say.

On a side note, council tenancies now are only transferable from a parent to child if the child meets the qualifying criteria for social housing in their own right, (including house size). Transfer of tenancy is not automatic and there is no guarantee or entitlement that a tenancy will be transferred any more. But that's for another thread.

KungPao

Pushing 500k to live over the road from Mercedes and her litter of wild ones.

They really put doubt in your mind eh?

A2 BER, heat pump, lighting a candle will heat the place up. Fantastic. But the uncertainty is real. Possible layabouts for neighbours, smoking hash all day and having caravans parked up, and Lord knows what else. All in same house for free potentially, while you are up to your neck. And the value of your house goes down.

What a country.

jimmycrackcorm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it is niave to assume that just because someone is buying privately and keeps their house nice that they are totally invested in being a good neighbour. There are multiple ways someone can make their neighbour's life a living hell, before having to descend to the level of drug lord. People are selfish, and assholes are commonplace.

Well if you think that is the case then where are all the threads about the bad neighbour next door who owns the property? Because bar the rare one, it's always a rented house, whether rented privately or through the council.

But if a private buyer is buying a house in a new development, then you could be 99% sure they are going to be good neighbours. Even if a landlord buys for rent, you still have a better chance of getting them to take action with problem tenants, because guess what, they'll cause problems for the landlord also.

rorrissey

I grew up surrounded by social housing. It wasn't nearly as bad then as it is where I am now. These days, I live practically across the road from an estate of brand new social houses. (Cork city area)

While some of the new residents are lovely, quiet people, I would say unfortunately most aren't... I guess we got unlucky. Our roads are covered in litter, the local park gets vandalised often and there are massive groups of rough young children hanging out at all hours. One of the houses has tinfoil covering all the windows and another has the curtains closed all day with a pang of weed coming out.

It's not the adults at all but the children. No one is correcting them. Most of the new families are quite young and so I fear for the future when these children grow up to be teenagers.

It's such a shame as the houses are lovely and a handful of the residents do make an effort. They have planted lovely gardens. It must be frustrating for them to be surrounded with filth.

Anyway.. Long story short, I plan on moving away in the next few years because the place has gone to the dogs.

NIMAN

If spending close to half a million, why is it even being considered?

Surely with that budget there are other options open to you?

Dolbhad

I didn’t buy a new build as the social housing was to the back of the house.

I’ve said this a few times. I grew up in a Council estate and didn’t have issues until about 15 years when the estate was doubled. And again recently with more houses. I feel bad for my parents. The estate has gone to ruin.

When my parents first got a house in the late 80’s the estate was full of people who worked but it was more they may be low income jobs, one person worked or in a trade so in and out of work on 80’s. Decent people working hard.

It’s not like this now. It’s mostly single mothers with young kids given houses. Lockdown in summer was a nightmare with parties all the time. I wouldn’t mind if social housing was given to those who are working but seems now you’d be ineligible for a house.

A few people like my parents bought their house off council but I don’t think they would be able to sell it easily now.

Now you can still have crap neighbours but if someone is paying the same money as you for a house, least you know they would respect it more.

3DataModem

I would advise anyone to avoid buying a 'settling' house in a place that is rental-heavy, unless you know the area very well.

(Whether that rental is state-sponsored or otherwise)

Yellow_Fern

Mellor wrote: »

About 10% of houses in new developments for the last 15 years are social housing. I doesn't seem to affect the prices in the market generally.



I doubt they are.

How would you even though? You'd need a really good dataset to test the idea. It is possible that this factor keeps old estate prices high but puts downward pressure on new ones. Who knows really.

mloc123

Mellor wrote: »

About 10% of houses in new developments for the last 15 years are social housing.

Not quite true... up until a couple of years ago developers could pay their way out of this, and most did. It is only in the last 3(?) years that 10% of all new developments are actually social

begbysback

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It wasn't social housing, but council housing. Social housing now is about spreading the bad eggs amongst everyone, instead of just one bad estate.

So nowadays, instead of the one council estate having a bad reputation, you now get five mixed estates with a bad name.

And this is the way it should be, thankfully it seems we have learned our lesson from constructing problem areas such as Ballymun and Inchicore in the past.

Either way it makes no difference op, anybody’s next door neighbour has the right to rent out their property tomorrow, which could essentially turn it in to social housing. Problem neighbours are problem neighbours whether they are renting, social housing, or owners.

ec18

I'd pull out, it's not worth the stress around the uncertainty of who might end up next door, could be fine could be terrible. Despite what people will say it's less likely that a private buyer will have the same problems

jimmycrackcorm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Well if you think that is the case then where are all the threads about the bad neighbour next door who owns the property? Because bar the rare one, it's always a rented house, whether rented privately or through the council.

But if a private buyer is buying a house in a new development, then you could be 99% sure they are going to be good neighbours. Even if a landlord buys for rent, you still have a better chance of getting them to take action with problem tenants, because guess what, they'll cause problems for the landlord also.

Here is a recent example of one where a private buyer is making life hell for a council tenant.

It does happen, and its not as rare as you would like to think. As I said, assholes come in all shapes and sizes and in all socio-economic groups. I'm a private owner in a private estate that now has a mix of social housing sprinkled in as the council has bought many houses in the estate over the last 5 years, and you would never know which houses are private, which are private renters and which are council renters.

But the OP has been advised, and can make up their own mind. Good luck to them with their decision.

B.A._Baracus

Short answer: Don't buy.

Long answer: I know someone who bought a place (16-17 years ago) which was built at the end of a council estate. They had a bit of trouble over the years. Teenagers hanging outside on their wall, the car window smashed in, someone hopped the fence and tried the back door one night etc. One of his neighbours got broken in to as well, wanna know the ironic kicker? Said neighbour was getting all sorts of work done in the house (she got a settlement from a claim I was told) and who did she get to do some the work? tradesmen who lived in the council estate. Shortly after she gets broken in to. Don't think we need Columbo for this case.

DubLad69

So I have been thinking about this all night. And I got a friend who works for Kildare CC to check out the plans for the social house. And I've decided to pull out.

It turns out that it is no longer just the house attached me that is going to the council. It is also the house on the other side, and the two houses across the street. So it would be social housing on all sides. The ones either side of me are also 4 beds which I wouldn't have thought would be given as social housing, only 3 beds.

We are buying another house in a different section of the same development, there is no social housing at all in this part.

It's a 3 bed instead of a 4 bed, but is a good 50k cheaper. Won't be ready until November though.

The funny thing is, I would have no problem buying a house in a council estate from the 70s/80's. But I feel like it is different with a new build.

mloc123

DubLad69 wrote: »

So I have been thinking about this all night. And I got a friend who works for Kildare CC to check out the plans for the social house. And I've decided to pull out.

It turns out that it is no longer just the house attached me that is going to the council. It is also the house on the other side, and the two houses across the street. So it would be social housing on all sides. The ones either side of me are also 4 beds which I wouldn't have thought would be given as social housing, only 3 beds.

We are buying another house in a different section of the same development, there is no social housing at all in this part.

It's a 3 bed instead of a 4 bed, but is a good 50k cheaper. Won't be ready until November though.

The funny thing is, I would have no problem buying a house in a council estate from the 70s/80's. But I feel like it is different with a new build.

Which estate/town are you looking in?

Mad_maxx

DubLad69 wrote: »

Hi all,

We are in the middle of purchasing a house in a new development in a typical middle class area. It turns out that the house opposite us and the house next door are both social houses which the estate agent tried to hide from us.

I grew up in a council estate, so I'm not even sure why I am worried about it. I recently visited a development that was 100% social housing, and the place looked very run down already. And it got me worried about the who might end up moving next door.

Does anyone have experience of social housing in a new development? Or does anyone know how Kildare CC deal with anti social behaviour if it was to come to it. I know it seems very judgmental of me, I'm just worried as I am spending almost half a million on my house and all I want is peace and quiet and am just panicking a little.

The alternative is to get a house without social tenants next door but is much smaller.

your neighbours could be fine

one thing is absolutely certain however , if they are troublesome , the local authority will do what they always do about these kind of things

Sweet Fcuk All

iColdFusion

mloc123 wrote: »

Not quite true... up until a couple of years ago developers could pay their way out of this, and most did. It is only in the last 3(?) years that 10% of all new developments are actually social

What are the requirements for this, does the developer have to give the council 10% of the houses for free, at cost price or what?

Seems crazy to be using 500k houses for social housing and also denying them to actual hard working people willing to pay that

DubLad69

iColdFusion wrote: »

What are the requirements for this, does the developer have to give the council 10% of the houses for free, at cost price or what?

Seems crazy to be using 500k houses for social housing and also denying them to actual hard working people willing to pay that

They agree a price between them. Its usually given at a discount, but the developer will still make a profit from them.

mloc123

iColdFusion wrote: »

What are the requirements for this, does the developer have to give the council 10% of the houses for free, at cost price or what?

Seems crazy to be using 500k houses for social housing and also denying them to actual hard working people willing to pay that

My sisters works in a solictors and said with the ones they have dealt with, it is usually a charity that come in and buy the houses and then hand them over to the council. She said she expected them to look for a discount... but that they usually just offer full price.

iColdFusion

DubLad69 wrote: »

They agree a price between them. Its usually given at a discount, but the developer will still make a profit from them.

mloc123 wrote: »

My sisters works in a solictors and said with the ones they have dealt with, it is usually a charity that come in and buy the houses and then hand them over to the council. She said she expected them to look for a discount... but that they usually just offer full price.

Well I suppose at least the developer isn't adding a margin onto the price of the normal houses to make up for lost profit on the social houses but some money to be spending, surely the council should be buying two 250k houses...

Eric Cartman

DubLad69 wrote: »

They are assigned to Kildare CC. I'm not sure if they are obliged, but I found out from planning documents which they have since deleted.

especially if its a semi-d or terrace - run.

Atleast if people were moved in you could gauge it . With nobody in there chances are the person at the top of the list is a single mother with a few kids who's young enough, you're looking at 5 years of welfare day sessions then when the kids become teens the noise starts all over again.

the new thing is "I'm a responsible mother, id rather the kids were drinking and smoking weed in the house where I can keep an eye on them rather than out in a field" which of course you'd have to be smoking some real strong sh*t yourself to see as responsible.

cgcsb

I've been considering this while looking to buy in Dublin, I can only afford (in fact whether I can afford it or not is questionable as prices seem to be inflating past my reach) to buy in an area dense with social housing, I'm a single person with no interest in marriage, children or cohabitation so I'm in competition with double income couples.

Social housing policy probably needs to be more transparent, at the moment anybody earning under €35k net (circa €50k gross depending on your deductions), can apply for social housing but basically the rule of thumb is that if you are a working person with no dependents (say a nurse earning €26k gross) you are put into the 'band 3' priority housing. This basically means that due to the social housing shortage you will never be housed by the council. However if you have multiple dependents and are yourself a dependent(on the state) you are considered 'band 1', effectively you're sure of a forever home in a number of months, certainly less than 2 years. It's certainly not a fair system and not one which is compatible with a capitalist economy. The message to young females is remain single and produce offspring.

It also seems to be at odds with the social housing policy of my parents generation which seemed to favour those with regular employment. That being said single women with children were stuffed into institutions in those days(the other extreme). Some sustainable middle ground has to be found for the small minority who aren't interested in employment, perhaps a co-living solution sharing kitchens with other families would be a good low cost answer and there'd still be a clear incentive to become economically active, with regular social housing reserved for those working and earning less than €50k.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

However if you have multiple dependents and are yourself a dependent(on the state) you are considered 'band 1', effectively you're sure of a forever home in a number of months, certainly less than 2 years.

What county are you in?!?!

Because the average waiting time in Dublin for a council house is closer to 12 years, not 2 or anywhere like it!

Months? You're dreaming.

Gatling

Housed in months seriously do people actually believe the ****e they post

melekalikimaka

I personally know people whore went applied to keys within months

Patrick2010

Wait until direct provision closes down and you'll see who gets priority then.

Gatling

melekalikimaka wrote: »

I personally know people whore went applied to keys within months

Unless there is a terminal illness or similar dire medical situation it doesn't happen ,there is litterally thousands off applicants for every one property that becomes available ,

I've heard plenty of claims on here from 1st time posters aka rereg trolls .

Jinglejangle69

iColdFusion wrote: »

What are the requirements for this, does the developer have to give the council 10% of the houses for free, at cost price or what?

Seems crazy to be using 500k houses for social housing and also denying them to actual hard working people willing to pay that

Think I read the cost of the social houses is added onto the initial private house cost.

Jinglejangle69

Gatling wrote: »

Housed in months seriously do people actually believe the ****e they post

6 months is the average from going "homeless" to being housed.

Gatling

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

6 months is the average from going "homeless" to being housed.

And yet families are sitting in hotels years .
Also it doesn't mean you get a permanent social housing usually it's hap housing essentially long term lets

Good explanation on how houses are allocated in this article.

No one gets housed in months unless there is a dire medical need.

mloc123

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

6 months is the average from going "homeless" to being housed.

I think this may have been a loophole a few years ago that was closed out.

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

What county are you in?!?!

Because the average waiting time in Dublin for a council house is closer to 12 years, not 2 or anywhere like it!

Months? You're dreaming.

The average across all lists. There's 3 priority bands. I'm talking about 'band 1'

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What county are you in?!?!

Because the average waiting time in Dublin for a council house is closer to 12 years, not 2 or anywhere like it!

Months? You're dreaming.

Well a lad I know got his missus pregnant and it was twins so he was delighted.
Stopped working and they got a house within 2 months so it can definitely
happen.
Triple Micky money too

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

The average across all lists. There's 3 priority bands. I'm talking about 'band 1'

Read the article I linked to above.

BrownFinger

BrownFinger wrote: »

Well a lad I know got his missus pregnant and it was twins so he was delighted.
Stopped working and they got a house within 2 months so it can definitely
happen.
Triple Micky money too

Oh lord, here come the anecdotes.

oceanman

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

6 months is the average from going "homeless" to being housed.

what planet are you living on?...

Bargain_Hound

I've posted about our experience several times on boards. We bought a new build in a very large new development in Co. Meath 2017/2018. The developer & EA hid the fact the 3 houses attached to us were social houses and the 4 directly behind us. We sold (luckily) and moved less than a year after we bought. Ultimately we lost a lot of cash between sale costs/legal fees but I count my self very lucky that we even managed to sell so quickly and bought elsewhere in an already established estate in Dublin. The whole process caused an awful lot of heartache as fundamentally we loved the house but the neighbors started to become a bit of an issue. Members of a certain ethnicity. I'll say no more. Mightn't bother some people, but after going through what we did, no way would I give the thumbs-up and say risk it.

Edit: there is several social houses in the estate we live in now, no where near our doorstep so the fact rarely enters my head. However, when your attached to a bad egg, it is a different story. A lifetime commitment.

Eric Cartman

Gatling wrote: »

And yet families are sitting in hotels years .
Also it doesn't mean you get a permanent social housing usually it's hap housing essentially long term lets

Almost all families in hostels over 9 months have declined an offer

The posters timeline are woefully optimistic, but the hotel for uears crowd are not a good anecdote to rebut that