escooter & ebike regulation

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837321#Comment_117837321

You need a pet project, given the relative slow speed of the scooters and being inches off the ground, a scrape on a knee would be the only thing bringing tears about.

I know people have daft ideas of scooters, I just don't understand why. They are slow (max 25km/h compared to 40km/h on a bicycle), low to the ground, stop in meters (top speed to stop on my ninebot is just over 3 meters), they have in built lights and give good vision to a rider. Difficulty with indicating is the only real flaw.

Like in all walks of transport there are bad and good users, the risks of a bad driver and cyclist are far higher than a bad scooter rider though.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117836592#Comment_117836592

I really hope they define the difference between electrically assisted bikes/escooters and electric motorbikes, 250W as a support or maybe electric support only works below 25km/h is a fair enough start point for us to work from.

Want more speed pay tax, insurance and nct as people say. 25km/h is enough for cycle lanes and yes a manual bike can go faster (if you want you can get one of them instead of electrical assisted devices).

Mecrab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840014#Comment_117840014

with a top speed of 53km/h you're probably right!

fryup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841705#Comment_117841705

slow speed has got nothing to do with it, when you hit your head you hit your head...riding around on those without head protection is risky a 'scrape on the knee' is not the only thing you're at risk of

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849085#Comment_117849085

Just a little dramatic, slow speed is the reason heads are not hit.

More danger on a swing set.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849085#Comment_117849085

Should helmets be mandatory for kids who've been out scooting on scooters for decades, over a century even?

magicbastarder

while not saying helmets should be mandatory or necessary, the fact that kids have been using scooters for decades without them, is not an argument in and of itself that they are not necessary.

Housefree

Anecdotal but I have noticed the majority of children around my area who have escooters have chunked up. Probably something that hasn't been well researched but kids are getting these instead of bikes/skateboards/scooters & they stop walking anywhere. They should be banned till at least 16 or 18.

Amirani

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117849085#Comment_117849085

Speed is absolutely a relevant factor in the likelihood of a head collision happening, and in the severity of one when it does happen.

Hurrache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852845#Comment_117852845

Well the hysterics haven't been out in force demanding they're banned, or helmet is mandated, because the number of head injuries and deaths through their usage is negligible. It's a good enough argument for me that they're not necessary for kids aged 7/8 upwards.

corcaigh07

Any chance Dublin (or Eamon Ryan) would ever consider someone like Voi and have a scooter sharing scheme to get around?

lalababa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117808541#Comment_117808541

Best bet to remain legal and have a sweat free commute...is to get a 250w e bike....should be manageable for less than 1000 or get a cheap bike and put one on for 500ish. Don't know your distance but the higher the battery kwhs such as above 10 would probally do. Best to get 12 to 15 though!

lalababa

Oh and 36v is better than 12v. A 36v 10Ah would go maybe 18 miles on full assist. A 36v 15Ah would go maybe 25 miles. But remember you shouldn't really be on full assist all the time...ie you should be pedalling away yourself most of the time.

The 36v 10Ah might last 30 miles or more depending on how much you are pedalling and what setting you have it on. There will probably be 5 settings so maybe put it on 4, and as you get fitter reduce down one setting at a time.

I had a 12Ah battery that lasted 1000s of charging cycles, and that kept most of its charge for 5years + and maybe 3500+ miles!

niamh247

I see a lot of kids are already escooting to school, since the schools reopened. I'm still undecided whether to buy one for my kid or not. How probable it is, to get stopped by Gardai in Dublin, if riding an escooter? Not much news recently about Gardai action on escooters, nor about the expected time-line for the legislation.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117855411#Comment_117855411

Maybe a silly question but why not a real bicycle?

I use e scooters but really can't understand why people get these and ebikes for kids. Safe aand effective as escooters are, bikes do have the exercise advantage and are tougher.

That said never had an issue with the gardai but they tend to go after people on pavements or doing nonsense to be fair. Would depend on how you think your child may act.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852860#Comment_117852860

Was only having this chat with the missus. Now I imagine that lack of sport/activity etc due to covid may be a cause for a general weight gain among the population.

But e-scooters/e-bikes for kids do just remove a handy source of exercise. I cycled miles as a kid and without an issue. Does just seem to be one more way for a more sedentary generation to gain more weight.

Starting to sound old and grumpy now. Hahaha

magicbastarder

i think that in the factors relating to the 'if schoolkids are heavier than they were 30 years ago' debate, e-scooters are way down the list.

4km a day (2km each way) would burn fewer calories than a can of coke would provide.

Housefree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117856014#Comment_117856014

Can of coke is 140kcals, so every 20 journeys is around 2800kcals which is about 1lb, all adds up. Younger kids that would play on the street with a bike/skateboard/scooter for hours & hours are just escooting up and down. The less active your are the less you become

Hurrache

The real killer is 'sports' drinks, the amount of kids of all ages you see drinking them regularly is ridiculous.

Ferris

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857315#Comment_117857315

And not a helmet in sight!

No issue with scooters becoming regulated - other EU states have done so. They are probably the least impacting mode of transport out there in terms of safety, impacts to society and environment.

Personally I prefer my ebike as I get some exercise and the range is better. Also the brakes are better and you can still cycle if the battery is flat.

Supercell

With regards escooters.

Looking at the legislation proposed (https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2021/28/eng/initiated/b2821d-p-c-sent.pdf), it states :-

In this section, “maximum continuous rated power” has the meaning given to it in Regulation (EU) No. 168/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 15 January 20131 on the approval and market surveillance of two or three-wheeled vehicles and quadricycles.

Looking at that legislation - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32013R0168&from=EN, it states :-

‘maximum continuous rated power’ means the maximum thirty minutes power at the output shaft of an electric engine as set out in UNECE regulation No 85

So is this with rider weight dependant over 30 minutes or pure raw motor sustained output (not sure what the right terminology is)?

My wife was considering getting one of these instead of a car and is concerned if the 250w will be enough to go up and down any hills at all? (she is thinking of commuting from Loughlinstown to Dun Laoghaire which is quite a hilly route), shes about 55kg in weight.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117894780#Comment_117894780

These are questions that will be answered by the homologation process for manufactured bikes & scooters. A reasonable rating for a complete system will be struck by that process, using a sample unit. The big issues will arise in my view, in respect of user-built/DIY/Kit units where homologation will not be possible as each unit will be 'unique' and unrated. For example, a 36 Volt controller at 10 Amps max continuous will provide 250 watts max continuous at the output shaft, allowing for 70% efficiency. That exact system, will be easily (and almost invisibly) modified to handle 14A max continuous which would result in 350 watts at the output shaft assuming 70%.

In practical terms, I cannot see that the route your wife (who is a waif really) would cause any problems with a 250 watt system. Most continuous ratings can be almost doubled for short bursts of hill- climbing without generating enough heat as to burn anything up. Well-designed units will have good heat- dissemination built in which ought to deal with most Irish conditions outside of mountainous areas.

magicbastarder

It's probably a fair guess that your wife wouldn't be able to put out 250w on a bike for anything other than very short bursts, so if she can cycle it, the motor has enough power. The issue would probably then become one of battery life, not motor power. But 12km to allow for a return trip on a single charge send reasonable?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896179#Comment_117896179

You would easily be able to do a 12 km round trip on even the cheapest E bike. If you are willing to put in a little bit of effort on your part when cycling and don't go overboard on the amount of assistance, then you can get good ranges out of E bike's.

niamh247

Just small question - do we expect the legislation to come to a stage by Nov/Dec this year such that Garda won't stop an escooter on the road purely for legal reasons (license etc)?

This is super important for me as I don't want to take any risk with possibility of Garda stopping me, and I would like t plan based on when it would be almost legal to use the escooter.

Thanks!!

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903154#Comment_117903154

Probably best to check that with Eamon Ryan's Dept. Otherwise, its a matter of how other things take priority in the legislation agenda. Last I heard, E Ryantold the Oireachtais Transport Ctte it wou ld be unlikely it would get to Dail debate until October at tbe earliest.

niamh247

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903226#Comment_117903226

I see. thanks for the pointers! I wonder how so many folks are zipping on the escooters in Dublin. Because Gardai won't stop them as long as they play nice on the road?

Seth Brundle

Dublin Cycling Campaign has made a valid point regarding e-scooters yet nobody is up in arms about the self driving cars which seems to have a bit of an issue seeing people and other traffic...

https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/1438484826831663108

The above video was removed but this is it here...

https://twitter.com/GetRammed69/status/1438616964340006912

Similar vid:

https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1437743602579423233

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903255#Comment_117903255

I was in Dublin last week on a Thursday afternoon. As I was parked at the lights on Griffith Ave, I'd say I saw at least 20 lads on escooters flying by. similarly out in Clontarf. All were minding their Ps & Qs as far as I saw. But technically, every one was illegal!

Paddigol

Update it seems (ignore the standard issue nonsense in par 2);

What will the new law on e-scooters mean for rides? (msn.com)