Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

FraserburghFreddie

Another Taoiseach suggesting the EU needs to compromise over the "too strict"protocol according to this link(one of many available saying the same thing)A bit of commonsense from all concerned would take the wind out of the sails of extremists whichever side they are on.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/01/02/mistakes-were-made-on-all-sides-in-handling-of-brexit-says-varadkar/

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059789#Comment_120059789

Ie, both sides nonsense. Mistakes were always going to be made but the greatest problem has always been British treachery.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120059914#Comment_120059914

This. The EU has been signalling for a long time that steps could be agreed to alleviate problems arising from the Protocol, and indeed pointing to the process that the Protocol itself provides for negotiating and agreeing such steps, which the UK has been refusing to participate in. The barriers have been (a) the UK actively promoting the impression that it won't abide by any steps that are agreed, plus (b) the UK demanding steps, not to address practical problems, but to revisit fundamental aspects of the Protocol that they have already agreed — e.g. the role of the CJEU.

We've been here before in the Brexit process, several times — the UK and the EU negotiate and reach a compromise; the UK trousers the compromise, treats it as a new baseline and complains that the EU never compromises; the UK repudiates the compromise it has already agreed. This pattern of behaviour naturally make the EU wary; it effectively discourages the EU from offering any compromise unless the behaviour of the UK encourages them to think that the UK actually wants to compromise and intends to honour any compromise it makes.

Leroy42

I wonder what the UK is willing to give to the EU in any negotiations. All the talk, from UK ministers, is about how the EU must accept that change is needed. But like in any negotiation, what is it for the other party?

Grassey

5 minutes of quiet? Works for unruly kids!

FrancieBrady

Seems fairly clear now the DUP are not going to get the removal of the Protocol and the choreographing to a deal is ramping up. What does Jeffrey do now?

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1612458361521602561

serfboard

I read Varadkar's comments as one of those speeches that is made from time to time to try and encourage the other side. It gives Unionism and the Tories some red meat to throw to their base, so that they can then go back into negotiations.

To me, the real crux of it is the following:

"anything we’ve done since then ... was an attempt ... to avoid a hard border on our island, to make sure that human rights in Northern Ireland are upheld ... and ... that the European Single Market is protected, and they’re my firm red lines.

The backstop, the protocol, were just mechanisms to achieve those objectives and, so long as we can achieve those objectives, I’ll be as flexible and reasonable as I can be.”

In other words, whatever we call it, and however we work it, so long as it does what is necessary, then we'll go along with it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086892#Comment_120086892

That was never going to happen though. All that time and energy spent by the Tories sabre-rattling was just a tragic waste. The protocol could have been improved through amicable negotiations but it just became another cynical ploy to hold the anti-EU coalition together. Worst of all, the Unionists fell for it. Again.

weemcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086892#Comment_120086892

Whatever he takes to grassroots Loyalism gets rejected, such is the monster they've made out of the protocol, nothing less than it's complete removal will do. Especially not when there is a Nationalist First Minister. Nothing changes, is what I'd bet...

FrancieBrady

Cleverly again displaying the lack of understanding and care they have for NI as a whole, by refusing to meet the leader of SF. SDLP were right not to stand for it either.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095466#Comment_120095466

Agreed. Fair play to the SDLP.

Standard behaviour for an arch-Brexiter though. NI is once again nothing more than an inconvenience.

weemcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095466#Comment_120095466

I was pleasantly surprised by SDLP today, as they usually spend all their time running down Sinn Fein. They should use this as an opportunity to pivot away from that, because I don't think it does them any favours with voters.

Abhorrent from the Tories today, but I'm not one bit surprised considering.

pixelburp

Superficially understanding what happened, I think it was a bad tactical move. The meeting was regards the North (Protocol) and insisting McDonald be there needlessly technical, ultimately scuppering a chance for progress - and maybe shades of throwing one's authority around.

AFAIK Michelle O'Neill was herself present in her capacity as co First Minister, that should have been enough for SF representation. But I suppose you don't get to be leader of a political party by refusing the limelight, or letting others take charge.

FrancieBrady

Sam McBride pinpoints what yesterday may have really been about. The stunt by the British/NIO created quite the smokescreen for this border post development, with Unionists distracted again.

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1613292261479010317

Did the NIO/British realise that the upshot would be forcing nationalist solidarity though?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120097451#Comment_120097451

As long as they're the ones that have to approve a referendum, they don't care. They've already fatally undermined the union.

FrancieBrady

Mood music intensifying.

https://twitter.com/timmckane/status/1613982845973954562?s=20

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120096115#Comment_120096115

Was Donaldson not there though? Just lacks a bit of consistency.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120104839#Comment_120104839

I don't think there is any misunderstanding that the UK government wants a good relationship with the EU far more than it wants a good relationship with the NI unionists. Whilst the Tories don't care about NI at all (as we know), they do care about England's business interests!

The jingoistic stuff in recent years was for the English market only. Now that they are politically content, HMG know they need to return to business as usual. The likes of NI unionists won't stop this.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120105743#Comment_120105743

The British tacitly withdrew when the GFA was achieved. Everything since has underlined that. Boris treated them (Unionists) like chums tbh. And Sunak will do it again. They and the Tories know they’ll never have to account for that to the UK electorate.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120104940#Comment_120104940

It's not without question marks but the manner McDonald had to make it a snub to her was itself distracting from the substance of the issue. SF already has leadership contextual to the North, and just looked like it was undermining O'Neil's authority accidentally or otherwise.

Seth Brundle

Looks like we are nearing a framework to move forwards - how will the DUP react (and if they react favourably, will they change their mind afterwards)...

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1614889896786759681?s=20&t=N6Z5GXaV7vOSByUjl0bLKw

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120114749#Comment_120114749

They will be against it of course because EU has proposed it; the fact London is behind it will be glossed over as it is yet another backstab by EU to NI and the GF agreement. Anything else would at this stage honestly shock me; EU could state NI will get 10k GBP / citizen every year and DUP will still find it's bad and somehow backstabbing etc.

FrancieBrady

A rare wrong call from Tony Connelly with just a holding statement released today.

A wrong call or are there other developments behind the scenes. The ERG flexing muscles again?

FrancieBrady

Fair play to MLMD. The British public need to hear this reasonable and fortright explanation of the issues concerning the island of Ireland.

https://twitter.com/JoeEDwyer/status/1616014509981720576

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128503#Comment_120128503

Doesn't mean they'll care. I'd say any sane Unionist is praying nightly for Labour to take over.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128506#Comment_120128506

The hardliners won't but those signalling that they think Brexit was a mistake/hasn't gone well need to hear this again and again. And I think many do care.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128532#Comment_120128532

The British public by and large do not care about NI. It's always been an inconvenience at most to them. There are plenty of moderates who do but I don't think the public as a whole prioritise NI at all.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128608#Comment_120128608

I agree. They don't care through ignorance mostly. Which is why this calm and reasonable message is important for them to hear.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128695#Comment_120128695

Sure but it'll be ignored. McDonald presents herself well but it's ultimately futile as is the case with Scotland. Brexit means Brexit sadly, even if it costs the Union.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120128723#Comment_120128723

Polling is showing Brexit regret. That will grow if these messages are heard loud and clear.