What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169291#Comment_122169291

There are many contained in the article, perhaps you should read it as there are many fascist policies contained within as I'm not going to wipe your arse, sorry I mean list them for you

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169325#Comment_122169325

That doesn't count, it has multi-syllable words and no pictures.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169324#Comment_122169324

That's just it..

Trumps ONLY firm beliefs are that he's awesome and that he loves money.

He will facilitate and allow anyone to do anything as long as he gets a taste and he gets to be "special".

That attitude has led to him being surrounded by either Grifters of the highest order and Religious and Political zealots.

For example , Stephen Miller IS a hateful Fascist with a bagful of fascist policies and because he blow smoke up Trumps ass and will go on TV to proclaim Trump as the greatest thing since sliced Bread , Trump will let him do whatever he wants.

Trump isn't a fascist, but he will facilitate fascists because they will give him money and praise.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169362#Comment_122169362

make money. that is all he really cares about. and he doesnt care who gets hurt in the process.

Stanley 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168978#Comment_122168978

Also Big Macs, large fries, chicken nuggets and large Coke, twice a day.

Might occasionally share "coke" with Junior.

randomuser02125

Another page wasted on an obvious attention seeker

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169336#Comment_122169336

it is straightforward and unemotional. i dont think you even read it. to dismiss it as hysterical is very trumpian.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169362#Comment_122169362

As I've said , Trump doesn't really have policies that he'd personally like to implement other than to horde money.

But he will facilitate others that do hold those fascist views as long as they give him what he wants (money)

He will allow the GOP led States to go full Handmaids tail on women, rolling back labour laws to allow child exploitation and more.

He will also allow things like the use of the military to suppress dissent as has already been shown he has suggested.

He will also allow the gross mistreatment of the "different" and has indicated that he plans to allow internment camps for immigrants etc.

His utter disdain for the rule of law and his general disinterest in anything other than himself will enable the "True Believers" to make "different" illegal , whether that's rolling back Womens health , LGBTQ rights , Climate laws , Labour Laws etc. he won't care as long as he gets what he wants from the deal, which is to stay out of jail and keep/grow his money.

And yes , if Trump is in power I guarantee that by inaction he will allow the states to try to over-turn things Obergefell vs. Hodges (Gay Marriage) , Griswold (Contraception) and Loving vs. Virgina (inter racial marriage).

These are all things that the GOP have floated previously and Trump will let them do it because he simply doesn't care.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169227#Comment_122169227

I have a question for you.

What are Trumps policies?

Go on, what actual political policies is Trump currently running on?

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169407#Comment_122169407

Stooped over, hand on each knee, and perhaps lift up flaps on the book

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169529#Comment_122169529

I have attempted to undermine the position that Trump "is a fascist"; that he doesn't have fascist policies. We have seen three conclusions in response to my argument (aside from the Ad hominem comments):

1. Trump isn't a fascist, but he enables fascist supporters.
2. Trump has no policies, but he's still a fascist.
3. Trump wants to become a fascist to generate wealth.

So even among posters on this thread critical of Trump, there is disagreement about whether Trump is a fascist; there's a belief that Trump is a fascist though nobody can point to actual fascist policies; and that unlike other fascists throughout history who cause genocide and expansionism, Trump wants to become a dictator as an income source.

The whole thing is absurd. I think I've pretty much made my point by now.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169572#Comment_122169572

You've made no point. You've been given many examples of trump's fascist ideas, yet you refuse to engage with that evidence.

Tldr you asked for evidence, you received it, you don't want to take those examples as evidence, you alone declare victory and that you're correct

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169572#Comment_122169572

It is very noticeable that you dodged the question.

Its not even a tricky question, name any Trump policies, and you didn't do it.

No need to answer me about facism, I never mentioned it to begin with. I simply asked you to list some of his policies and you couldn't do it.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169362#Comment_122169362

So he's just allegedly a drug taking, raping, tax dodging, debt dodging, work shy, fraudster but he's not a fascist per se, so it's all OK.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169672#Comment_122169672

I didn't dodge the question.

When I asked about which Trump policies were fascist, I was told by most posters that Trump had no policies. It's an unusual form of argument to say that Trump is a fascist without policies — because if he doesn't have policies then he necessarily doesn't have fascist policies. When pressed, the response came that Trump's actual intention to become a fascist is for financial reasons. Not genocide or militarism, but to help out with money.

You yourself have asked me about Trump's policies. Here's a reasonable overview of what he plans to achieve.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169572#Comment_122169572

You seems to think that unless people do exactly what Hitler did then they aren't fascists.

Here's the dictionary definition of Fascism

Lets look at Trump and what Trump would enable ,shall we ?

• Exhalts Nation and race above the Individual ? - Check
• Autocratic Government ? - Check
• Headed by a dictatorial leader? - Check
• Economic and Social Regimentation ? - Social regimentation , Absolutely .Economic - Kind of in that they will prioritise Profit over everything else
• Forcible Suppression of Opposition ? - Check
• A tendency toward Strong Autocratic/Dictatorial control ? - Check

So , Trump and the modern GOP he facilitates solidly tick pretty much every box for Fascism in the dictionary definition of the term.

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169744#Comment_122169744

You're given the wiki link to project 2025 which contained many facist policies. You're refusal to accept black and white evidence is just trolling (and juvenile) at this stage

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169788#Comment_122169788

No, you're exaggerating the terms of the definition to squeeze Trump into it. It's a populist attempt at playing to the gallery.

I suggest we listen to what you claimed less than 1-hour ago:

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169744#Comment_122169744

"Trump has increasingly used dehumanizing and violent rhetoric against his political enemies."

"Trump has called to bring independent agencies such as the Federal Communications Commission and Federal Trade Commission under direct presidential control."

"Trump promised to order the Justice Department to investigate political rivals and Joe Biden, and fire Attorney Generals who disobeyed him.[98] Trump has called for stripping employment protections for thousands of career civil service employees and replacing them with political loyalists if deemed an 'obstacle to his agenda' within federal agencies"

Imprisoning political rivals, purging anyone who disagrees with him from power. Increasing personal power on the president like a dictator. Inviting violence against minorities.

3 fascist policies taken directly from your own link (it also links project 2025 which was linked here as well which has more).

Also I am not sure why his motivations are that relevant. Fascism for personal gain is still fascism.

Leroy42

Does it matter whether he is a defined fascist, or that he allows fascists to be open and have their policies enacted?

You seem particularly focused on whether Trump meets the exact definition of a fascist.

Let's take your view that he isn't. Does that change how we should see him? Should we ignore his calls to be a dictator? Should we ignore his refusal to accept the democratic will of the people? Should we ignore the multiple alleged crimes? SHould we ignore the sexual assault, and the contempt of court? What about the lying, the cheating, the attempt to steal classified documents? What about his attempt to bring in a Muslim ban? How do you classify someone who targets individuals based on their religion?

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169858#Comment_122169858

I think perspective and context are worth having, yes.

By all means criticize Trump's individual policies and rhetoric. I don't agree with all of them, either.

But there comes a point when reasonable critique of policies metastasizes into hyperbole and distortion.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169572#Comment_122169572

pigeon chess

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169930#Comment_122169930

OK. So your point is that it is incorrect for anyone to claim he is a fascist and that doing so brings the debate down?

A definition of fascist was provided and the reasoning behind claiming Trump to be one was given. An explanation that you simply ignored.

That you don't see him as a fascist is perfectly fine, but then you seem to be overly concerned about how he is exactly defined rather than looking at his words and actions.

He has long stated how much he admires leaders such as Putin, Xi and others. Doesn't that give you cause for concern over exactly what he wants to do? Doesn't his attempt to steal the election for the democratically elected Biden not give you cause for concern?

He has also just taken a case to the supreme court on the basis that a POTUS should be immune from any and all criminal liability, essentially being above the law. Isn't that a concern?

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169744#Comment_122169744

Did you actually read the link you supplied ??

Trump has campaigned on vastly expanding the authority of the executive branch over the federal government.[7] This would be accomplished through the reimposition of the Jacksonian spoils system,[8][9] invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military onto American streets,[10][11] and directing the Department of Justice to go after domestic political enemies.[11] Other campaign issues include: implementing anti-immigrant policies and a massive deportation operation;[12] pursuing an isolationist "America First" foreign policy agenda;[13][14] repealing the Affordable Care Act;[15][16] pursuing a climate change denial and anti-clean energy platform;[17][18][19] terminating the Department of Education;[18] implementing anti-LGBT policies;[20][18] and pursuing what has been described as a neomercantilist trade agenda.[21][22]

Trump has been leaning into violent and authoritarian rhetoric throughout the campaign.[23][24][25][26] Trump has increasingly used dehumanizing and violent rhetoric against his political enemies.[23][27][28] His 2024 campaign has been noted for leaning into nativist[29] and anti-LGBT rhetoric.[30] The Trump campaign has been noted for its close connections to Project 2025,[31][11][26] which has been heavily criticized and described as an attempt for Trump to become a dictator and a path leading the United States towards autocracy, with several experts in law criticizing it for violating current constitutional laws that would undermine the rule of law and the separation of powers.[32][33]

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170051#Comment_122170051

You don't understand the game, only @concerned_tenant gets to decide what's fascist or not, despite what 3rd party universal definitions are sent to them

Quin_Dub

I think it's probably reasonable to say that Trump doesn't hold to any particular ideology but he has identified a methodology that facilitates his goals - Which is to accumulate as much power and money as he possibly can.

That methodology happens to align pretty well with standard issue Autocratic dictatorship which in itself is given to Fascist behaviours as has been previously explained.

In order to achieve his goals he needs like minded people around him and he needs to enable their goals - They largely do adhere to the ideology of Christian Nationalism which is fascism by any other name but critically their ideology allows Trump to get what he wants , and what Trump wants is all that matters to him. The "how" is irrelevant as is the impact on anyone or anything else as long as he gets his.

Trump isn't interested in "Making America Great Again" or establishing some long lasting legacy - He couldn't care less what happens after him. He just wants his cake NOW.

But to get his cake he is willing to allow the rest of them to burn the place to the ground pursuing their Christian Nationalist Uptopia.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169930#Comment_122169930

Here's some perspective, you think it's a good Idea to give power to the guy who tried to overthrow a democratic election. He's also tried to extort a foreign leader to get dirt on his enemies. In a normal democracy, he'd be facing prison time.

concerned_tenant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170051#Comment_122170051

Yes, though I would be very cautious in taking any strong interpretations based on how the article is written.

Just to take one statement:

invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military onto American streets.

This sounds very dramatic but when you look into the actual sources, it reads:

Campaigning in Iowa this year, Donald Trump said he was prevented during his presidency from using the military to quell violence in primarily Democratic cities and states.

Calling New York City and Chicago “crime dens,” the front-runner for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination told his audience, “The next time, I’m not waiting. One of the things I did was let them run it and we’re going to show how bad a job they do,” he said. “Well, we did that. We don’t have to wait any longer.”

This sounds very reasonable to me.

The rioting in many Democrat cities has been outrageous. Anything that exists to ensure the military can quickly put an end to this violence is definitely worth having.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169744#Comment_122169744

Honestly, I don't think you know what a fascist is, whatever about not engaging with the evidence you've already received.

Here's Umberto Echo's 14 common features of fascism

The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

Aiming for the Christian conservative vote. Removing a women's right to choose.

The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

"Inject bleach to cure COVID". Dismantle the pandemic preparation unit.

The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

It's how he speaks, isn't it? "I like him cos he speaks his mind" is what we hear a lot from his supporters (even when he reverses course mere hours later.

Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

Remember this?

Trump Says Haley Donors Will Be ‘Barred From the MAGA Camp’

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/us/politics/trump-haley-donors-maga-blacklist.html

Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

Uh huh. "They send us their rapists, drug dealers etc"

Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

Make America Great AGAIN. Was America ever great for those on the lower rungs? With darker skin? The use of the word AGAIN states that it is as good for some people. They want those people.

The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”

Uh huh. The victim complex of all these court cases being a democrat plot. It's worth remembering that Trump has been named in over 4,000 court cases in his life. And that is not because that's how business works. There are many other property magnates that haven't been involved in that money.

The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

Biden is an old fool with dementia who can barely stand, but also behind everything that's affecting Trump, from court cases, to weaponising the FBI and the judicial system.

Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

Uh huh. We have just seen one trump acolyte try to remove the speaker of the house for daring to cooperate with the Dems

Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

Trump disparaged U.S. military casualties as ‘losers,’ ‘suckers,’ report says

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-disparaged-u-s-military-casualties-as-losers-suckers-report-says

Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

Lol. He couldn't have hit this more on the nose if he tried.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Garden_of_American_Heroes

Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

So, not just his stupid "military parade". I think we can throw in his "grab em by the pussy, 'locker room talk'" And now he's talking about controlling contraceptives.

Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

Remember how republicans used to be about, "facts don't care about your feelings"? But now when presented with evidence they don't like, they seem to veer towards, "I know what it says, I just don't/can't believe it".

Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning

I mean if you or any other Trump supporter does read this, I'm sure your first thought will be something along the lines of, "fake news".

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170288#Comment_122170288

Yet when he had the ability to do so , he refused to "call in the military" to quell the riots on January 6th because he agreed with their actions.

What he wants is the ability to use the army to suppress things he doesn't like not for "the greater good" etc.

Everything in "Project 2025" is about the consolidation of power under the Executive (aka Dictatorship).

Framing it around specific incidents deliberately obscures the underlying goal.