Benefits of Buying a New Build A Rated Home vs 2nd hand average D rated?

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Curious to get opinions on this from anyone who has experience. Thanks

TheSheriff

We initially started only looking at new builds, but quickly changed tact to focus on second hand homes.

The pros (for second hand) were (these are obviously person specific);

1-More mature setting/settled neighborhood
2- Usually closer to schools/amenities/transport structures
3 - Larger garden generally
4-Usually a bigger plot in general/more space between adjacent front doors/room to expand
5- Presumably no major social housing worries (controversial point, but was a big one for us having relatives who had a nightmare with socially housed neighbors in a new development)

The second hand homes generally needed an injection of cash to re-decorate/re-model as we needed (cons), but usually when all was factored in the total cost (second hand home + redecorate versus new build) were relatively the same, so we felt better ending up in a more mature estate but having to put in the effort of changing things.

I'd love an A3 rated new build in an old park, thats the perfect buy in my opinion.

Lia_lia

I guess the main differences that I've noticed are:

Better heating in new A rated home (obvioulsy)

Older homes generally have much bigger back gardens and often also have a front garden which most new builds lack.

Older homes in more mature areas with better amenities. Not always the case but definitely is here in Cork.

Older homes tend to have smaller kitchens from what I've noticed. Unless renovated/extended.

If you're a FTB you can get HTB for new home.

accensi0n

Heating.

The help to buy is distorting this a lot.

During the early summer, for work, I was in a town that has seen a high amount of development for the past 15 years and has a couple of new development now. Hundreds of houses at least 2 or 3km if not more from the town proper the only facilities were a huge euro spar with a few small shops tacked on to it.

verses

A mature estate with grass verges, trees, big gardens near facilities, mixed-age profile.

That is the choice.

CruelCoin

Style: A rated homes are going to be modern in style, D rated homes will be more "homely". Depends what aesthetic you prefer.

Comfort: get used to cold feet in a D rated house and bigger heating bills.
Though it's a false economy to think A rated homes are cheaper to heat, as they cost more to build, and you're paying that together with mortgage interest.

JimmyVik

Just on the heating.
My parents house is a D rated 3 bed detached bungalow with Granny flat and a garage thats heated too.
Heating bill is about €1100 for the last 12 months.
Maintenance on the D rated house heating system was €90.
Im living in it for over a year now and never felt cold in it.

My brother is in an A rated 3 bed, semi. His heating bill is €650 for the last 12 months.
Maintenance on his heating system was another €450 last year.

I prefer the D rated house.
Its bigger, feels warmer, is cheaper to maintain and it has a nice sized garden and a workshop in the garden.
The difference of roughly €450 per year for fuel doesnt trump that to me.

Creamy Goodness

the price is the price. second hand homes get you into bidding wars and also are generally priced to allow the current owners to move-up so therefore can end up being priced higher.

Milena009

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

the price is the price. second hand homes get you into bidding wars and also are generally priced to allow the current owners to move-up so therefore can end up being priced higher.

precisely that! the 2nd hand market is in an absolute madness state right now.
Apartments going 40k over asking before any viewing [IN person] allowed.

Also, the Help to buy scheme for new builds is a big incentive for people who are renting and could not buy otherwise anytime soon:cool:

TheSheriff

Milena009 wrote: »

precisely that! the 2nd hand market is in an absolute madness state right now.
Apartments going 40k over asking before any viewing [IN person] allowed.

Also, the Help to buy scheme for new builds is a big incentive for people who are renting and could not buy otherwise anytime soon:cool:

These types of price hikes are built into the new build price generally, you just don't see it, as you only see the headline price.

awec

JimmyVik wrote: »

Just on the heating.
My parents house is a D rated 3 bed detached bungalow with Granny flat and a garage thats heated too.
Heating bill is about €1100 for the last 12 months.
Maintenance on the D rated house heating system was €90.
Im living in it for over a year now and never felt cold in it.

My brother is in an A rated 3 bed, semi. His heating bill is €650 for the last 12 months.
Maintenance on his heating system was another €450 last year.

I prefer the D rated house.
Its bigger, feels warmer, is cheaper to maintain and it has a nice sized garden and a workshop in the garden.
The difference of roughly €450 per year for fuel doesnt trump that to me.

Did your brother's heating break? 450 is not normal maintenance money.

MicktheMan

JimmyVik wrote: »

My brother is in an A rated 3 bed, semi. His heating bill is €650 for the last 12 months.
Maintenance on his heating system was another €450 last year.

€650 annually seems very high for heating a rated 3bed semiD (unless it is a larger 3 bed, or it's new and still drying out)

Xoo2

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

the price is the price. second hand homes get you into bidding wars and also are generally priced to allow the current owners to move-up so therefore can end up being priced higher.

Yes there's no bidding wars but I've observed (especially from 2013-2018) huge price jumps for identical new build houses but in different launch phases. People on the waiting list for 1st phase who didn't get one, ended up paying higher in a subsequent phase for the same type of house. Bidding wars on 2nd hand homes are becoming a "thing" again, and there's always that niggling doubt the estate agent is just making up the bids.

Xoo2

Back on topic, we're looking to upgrade to a 3 / 4 bed semi D family home in the near future and have all but ruled out new builds. The social housing element is only a small factor but any we've viewed have absolutely tiny sitting rooms / kitchens compared to older (80s/90s built) in the same area and the estates have a very unwelcoming feel , I dunno is it lack of front gardens or do they just take time to develop character but anyway. We're aware of the renovation costs in buying an older house, have factored roughly 80k of that into our budget (that will go over or under budget depending on level of work required, e.g. existing windows/insulation/kitchen/painting/flooring/etc). That's assuming we ever even find a house, the supply problem is truly shocking at the moment where we're looking.

lindtee

Agree with all the replies here. I have been house searching the past 2 years or so. I am sale agreed on a 4 bed detached C1 property. On my budget I couldn’t have afforded a similar size/location house with an A rating. I don’t qualify for help to buy and I do reckon the prices of new builds are pumped up by this.

cubatahavana

Bought a new build (apartment) in 2007, and now I sold it and bought a new house 4 bed semi A3. Ours it’s in a nice location, very close to amenities and surrounded by mature areas. When the hearing goes off, the house maintains the temperature all day (for example, on the first floor, the temp is always 21 degrees and the heating comes on only 30-45 minutes per day). I understand the fear of social housing, but in a mature estate you never know either how your neighbors will be. For me, I rather live in a new property, even though it has as well negative aspects l

Idbatterim

One potentially very handy one buying older .you can likely put in a garden room if you like...

JimmyVik

awec wrote: »

Did your brother's heating break? 450 is not normal maintenance money.

Some controller unit for the solar had to be replaced.
The year before that something else went wrong on the heat pump, cant remember what he said that was but it was an expensive repair.

JimmyVik

MicktheMan wrote: »

€650 annually seems very high for heating a rated 3bed semiD (unless it is a larger 3 bed, or it's new and still drying out)

Its about 5 years old. I wouldnt think it was that big. I would think of it as an average 3-bed semi. The garden is tiny though. Certainly much smaller than my parents bungalow.

awec

JimmyVik wrote: »

Some controller unit for the solar had to be replaced.
The year before that something else went wrong on the heat pump, cant remember what he said that was but it was an expensive repair.

Yea this is not normal so, not really a fair comparison.

Creamy Goodness

awec wrote: »

Yea this is not normal so, not really a fair comparison.

You mean you don't replace your controller every year? :pac:

---

As an aside I've a heat pump heating system and have lived in the house two years. The maintenance for that time has been €300 ( 2 * €150 annual services).

Also electricity bills are roughly €65-80pm to heat, light and work from the house all year round (would be at the high end of the scale in winter).

From what I've heard of people with heat pump this is far more closer to the norm than €450 a year on maintenance.

j@utis

We've been living in B1 rated house for nearly 10years now and I wouldn't settle for anything less than that. The level of comfort in low BER houses just isn't there. I understand some people are more cold tolerant but I have low blood pressure and I'm constantly cold. I don't have monetary value of heating costs by hand but I've recently calculated kwh we go through the year : gas 5600kwh, electricity 2400kwh, based on 2.5years average, 92sq semi-D.

We stayed in relatives house for 2 nights over xmas. OMG, it was freezing! I slept with my jumper and my socks on, the cold and the dampness gets into your bones, it's awful. They would turn heating on for 3hrs in the morning and same in the evening and that would barely make a difference. House was built in early 2000s, so I guess BER D at the best, 4 bed bungalow.

We're looking to move and if it's not a high BER new build then the other choice is a complete heap that we would bulldoze down and built new one in it's place instead.

Marty1983

We are sale agreed on a A2 house, we are renting an older house and are so excited about the extra warmth.

Another benefit about a new house/estate is that its possible there will be other couples/families at similar stages in your life to you (small kids etc).

We ruled out one particular old estate with a renovation as it was full of older people (we have a 4 year old).

LaLa2004

Marty1983 wrote: »

Another benefit about a new house/estate is that its possible there will be other couples/families at similar stages in your life to you (small kids etc).

We ruled out one particular old estate with a renovation as it was full of older people (we have a 4 year old).

This is very true.

Dolbhad

We were sale agreed originally on a new build, 3 bed semi. It was the first phase. By phase 3 the same houses were 35k more expensive. The A rating is a big plus along with HTB and the green interest rating with banks. But I don’t like new build estates. In the end it felt like all the houses were on top of each other, tiny garden, small rooms and no front gardens.

We settled on a detached house c2 rating. I’ll admit the house was much warmer than I expected. Very mature estate, lovely gardens. But second hand houses do come with issues - ours was the drains so do expect some extra cost on that.

New builds estate do have some pros. We don’t have kids but maybe when we do we may feel like it would have been better to be in an estate with other kids than the older neighbours we have.

JimmyVik

Dolbhad wrote: »

We were sale agreed originally on a new build, 3 bed semi. It was the first phase. By phase 3 the same houses were 35k more expensive. The A rating is a big plus along with HTB and the green interest rating with banks. But I don’t like new build estates. In the end it felt like all the houses were on top of each other, tiny garden, small rooms and no front gardens.

We settled on a detached house c2 rating. I’ll admit the house was much warmer than I expected. Very mature estate, lovely gardens. But second hand houses do come with issues - ours was the drains so do expect some extra cost on that.

New builds estate do have some pros. We don’t have kids but maybe when we do we may feel like it would have been better to be in an estate with other kids than the older neighbours we have.

I would have a similar opinion on new build estates.
What is with the tiny gardens nowadays?

Creamy Goodness

JimmyVik wrote: »

I would have a similar opinion on new build estates.
What is with the tiny gardens nowadays?

it's to use the space the best way possible. Couples buying today - especially for the first time - don't want a front garden, they want space for 2 car parking spaces and usually don't have time to upkeep gardens especially two.

JimmyVik

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

it's to use the space the best way possible. Couples buying today - especially for the first time - don't want a front garden, they want space for 2 car parking spaces and usually don't have time to upkeep gardens especially two.

So its because people dont actually want a garden bigger than a postage stamp?

Creamy Goodness

JimmyVik wrote: »

So its because people dont actually want a garden bigger than a postage stamp?

no I didn't say that.

Gardens are smaller now because it allows them to fit more homes into the available land. more profit for the builders, more homes and ultimately less homeless.

My brother bought 12 years ago, new build, one parking space in every house, leads to people's cars being parked on the road, lots of scratches and blockages in the morning school runs.

My new build estate - built in the last 2 years - has 8 houses that came with a front garden and 1 parking space, out of the 8 houses, 6 of them have removed the garden to make way for another car.

cruizer101

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Gardens are smaller now because it allows them to fit more homes into the available land. more profit for the builders, more homes and ultimately less homeless.

County councils and planning is a big part of it. Planning was refused for a new estate near me as the density wasn't high enough for the planners and it was fairly dense already I thought.
I'm sure developers are happy enough to squeeze them in and get more profits also.

awec

JimmyVik wrote: »

So its because people dont actually want a garden bigger than a postage stamp?

It's two reasons mainly.

1. Land is so expensive that if developers gave each property big gardens the resultant property would end up too expensive. It is easier to sell more cheaper houses than fewer very expensive houses.

2. Councils expect certain density to ensure the best possible use of land, generally large gardens will prevent developers getting enough properties onto the site and they won't get planning approved.

JimmyVik

awec wrote: »

It's two reasons mainly.

1. Land is so expensive that if developers gave each property big gardens the resultant property would end up too expensive. It is easier to sell more cheaper houses than fewer very expensive houses.

2. Councils expect certain density to ensure the best possible use of land, generally large gardens will prevent developers getting enough properties onto the site and they won't get planning approved.

Think id prefer the big back garden myself to whats being built in estates these days tbh.

Creamy Goodness

JimmyVik wrote: »

Think id prefer the big back garden myself to whats being built in estates these days tbh.

There's plenty of stock of houses that have bigger gardens, but as Awec says will they be in the budget?

awec

JimmyVik wrote: »

Think id prefer the big back garden myself to whats being built in estates these days tbh.

I think most people would prefer a big back garden if that was the only choice they had to make, but a new build with a big back garden would just be too far out of budget for the majority so it's rare to see developers do it.

Of course even in new builds you do get the odd house with a large garden just because of where that house is within the site, but it would still be smaller than what would be considered large for an old house.

grassylawn

I bought a second-hand D-rated home.

One thing I would highlight is that there's a greater risk of finding more issues than you're made aware of at sale time. It would be worth paying for a full structural survey over a homebuyers' report, The former is more thorough and I think might leave the surveyor liable if certain things are missed. Two years in and I am still finding issues to be fixed. Some emergent issues have been serious, like multiple gas leaks, a very problematic sewage system, very bad mould and damp on a cold bridge in the main bedroom, concealed behind a fitted wardrobe. A dodgy septic system can take some time to get to the point where it doesn't need very regular attention (NBS Sprang is great in the meantime). The number and severity of issues caused me significant anxiety in addition to the effort and cost involved in resolving them.

Another point is that the BER rating might be inaccurate in an older build. Our energy use is more in-line with a B-rated home than the D-something rating it has.

We have a really really nice garden, that I think could only develop over the course of years, so if that is a factor for you, look at older builds.

If you're looking for a one-off build you might have trouble finding a new one compared to an older one. A moderately common strategy is to buy an old one-off build to tear down and replace with a new house as the planning will already be there for it.

In favour of old house:
Affordability
Availability of one-off builds, if that is something you want
Possibility of a mature garden

In favour of new house:
Energy efficiency
Less risk of emergent issues imo

Dolbhad

JimmyVik wrote: »

I would have a similar opinion on new build estates.
What is with the tiny gardens nowadays?

A friend of mine always refers to new build estates as concrete jungles. And although the new build was west facing, because of the density of other houses, our sun would have been blocked. We were lucky we had the choice to decide because we lived with family. If we had to rent and save, HTB all the way as we would have needed it for the deposit.

I’ll admit I was very anti new build when we started looking and glad I didn’t go with one. But I’ve see the benefits of new builds so wouldn’t say to someone don’t buy one. If you don’t feel the need for a garden, I think new builds are the way to go. They may not require much maintenance for decades.

Our house requires a wall to be underpinned and drains replaced. We got detailed reports so we were aware before buying and had price knocked off to reflect this. But if we didn’t know, it would be massive hit. We had detailed engineer reports, drains testing, costing of the above works so did incur about €1500 in reports ourselves.

awec

Dolbhad wrote: »

A friend of mine always refers to new build estates as concrete jungles. And although the new build was west facing, because of the density of other houses, our sun would have been blocked. We were lucky we had the choice to decide because we lived with family. If we had to rent and save, HTB all the way as we would have needed it for the deposit.

I’ll admit I was very anti new build when we started looking and glad I didn’t go with one. But I’ve see the benefits of new builds so wouldn’t say to someone don’t buy one. If you don’t feel the need for a garden, I think new builds are the way to go. They may not require much maintenance for decades.

Our house requires a wall to be underpinned and drains replaced. We got detailed reports so we were aware before buying and had price knocked off to reflect this. But if we didn’t know, it would be massive hit. We had detailed engineer reports, drains testing, costing of the above works so did incur about €1500 in reports ourselves.

Aside from the most desirable areas of Dublin even new builds will have a garden that's a usable size.

There'll be space for patios, decking, sheds, barbeques, lawn etc. Certainly the modern trend of the garden basically being an outdoor room is possible in most cases.

What you won't have is a garden big enough for say a football match between your kids, but that's also why new build developments these days come with green areas generally. You're not going to have loads of flower beds, or lots of big trees / bushes either.

GarySmith

There are many differences but to say main I would say gardens in traditional homes are much bigger with the same we get front garden as well which we don’t get in the new build homes, next is the interiors of the homes are almost same specifically in old kitchens if it’s not renovated. Next, the areas where old homes are built are more mature not in all the cases but in some areas I have noticed so keep this point in the list. Yes in new homes we get a new A rated heating which is plus and no need to do anything in this part and start enjoying this but in the new homes, also old homes are near to schools, transporting such as bus stop, bus station, tube station, shopping points and other amenities.

The new homes if are a bit far from town then they are connected with good roads, transportation to all points’ amenities and schools so need to make the priorities as individual needs and future plans.

suilegorma

Mature all the way. Usually a good mix of ages & stages. I can't imagine an estate where we all have young kids, then all teenagers at the same time. Much more balanced with a mix, as older estates tend to have. Bigger greens too, most new estates have tiny gardens, no front gardens and very small green areas. They also feel crowded, especially those with three floors.

ToxicPaddy

Had this dilemma ourselves when buying a couple of years back.

Main issue we saw was overall cost when you included redecorating, upgrading insulation and heating, modernising kitchens etc.

When looking at the overall cost, we went for new in a small development as it included the kitchen with granite worktops, new appliances which we upgraded anyway, larger rooms and we were lucky as it's a small development of only 11 houses and nearly all are locals living thete and all are very friendly.

The new house has an A2 rating, (still issues with heating which is frustrating but getting that sorted). Large bedrooms, 2 ensuite bathrooms and 5 min walk to main street of town and also near a beach.

The second hand ones definitely had bigger gardens, one had a garage and they were all in nice areas but larger estates with some having issues with gangs of kids causing problems (only found this out later)

One house we really loved due to style and location (small cul de sac, near town and walking distance of train station) needed a fair bit of work, upgrading of the heating system, windows replacing as noise proofing from outside was non existant, kitchen wasn't great and it looked like it wasn't painted in a good few years and kitchen dining area needed some reorganising so a wall had to come down.

Got rough idea of costs and was heading north of 100k for everything all in. Plus they were taking the piss on price and not budging on it which it clearly wasn't worth and was still for sale a year later.

The only other one we found was over budget for what it was and was facing a large plot which we also found out had planning permission for an office block. However we may have stretched if it wasn't for the office block.

Beside a housing estate on the edge of town. Who builds an office block?? ffs :rolleyes:

By buying new we actually saved about 50k in the overall scheme of things plus a lot of time and effort, yes we sacrificed on the garden size but there is a nice green area at the front where all kids play and no garage, but everything else is perfect for us.

Looking back now, I think our original budget for what we wanted was a bit of a pipedream and we soon found this out but luckily we saved a good bit and sold a property to buy this one so we only borrowed 40k more than we original planned to.

I can definitely see the appeal of buying a second hand house in a mature area. We saw some fabulous houses for sale but were either beyond our budget or too much work involved.

For us, the costs and time involved were just not worth the effort and we were planning to start a family, have a 3 month old now, so all that work with a new born in the house wasn't really something we wanted to take on.

Just my 2c on personal experience.

ebayissues

grassylawn wrote: »

I bought a second-hand D-rated home.

One thing I would highlight is that there's a greater risk of finding more issues than you're made aware of at sale time. It would be worth paying for a full structural survey over a homebuyers' report, The former is more thorough and I think might leave the surveyor liable if certain things are missed. Two years in and I am still finding issues to be fixed. Some emergent issues have been serious, like multiple gas leaks, a very problematic sewage system, very bad mould and damp on a cold bridge in the main bedroom, concealed behind a fitted wardrobe. A dodgy septic system can take some time to get to the point where it doesn't need very regular attention (NBS Sprang is great in the meantime). The number and severity of issues caused me significant anxiety in addition to the effort and cost involved in resolving them.

Another point is that the BER rating might be inaccurate in an older build. Our energy use is more in-line with a B-rated home than the D-something rating it has.

We have a really really nice garden, that I think could only develop over the course of years, so if that is a factor for you, look at older builds.

If you're looking for a one-off build you might have trouble finding a new one compared to an older one. A moderately common strategy is to buy an old one-off build to tear down and replace with a new house as the planning will already be there for it.

In favour of old house:
Affordability
Availability of one-off builds, if that is something you want
Possibility of a mature garden

In favour of new house:
Energy efficiency
Less risk of emergent issues imo

This is spot on. Viewing a house multiple homes before you buy it won't highlight issues all the issues. It's when you move in that's when you discover the skeletons under the closet.

I moved into a 2nd hand house and first I found the neighbour's boiler makes erratic noises when on and loads of other stuff.

I'd still favor buying in a well mature estate than a new build.

poker--addict

2nd hand market in our locality is almost non existent, especially for houses not in large developments.

Likely positives include slightly bigger sites, more privacy, more mature neighbours. Concrete built!

That does come at a cost of unknown problems but that is I suggest rare compared to what people might thing, with a small amount of aesthetical improvements often sufficient to arrive at your desired level of comfort.

I love the idea of an a-rated home. I despise the idea of a 3rd or 4th bedroom being a shoebox with almost no sound proofing, as is too often the compromise.

mloc123

Issues I notice with new builds is the move to 3 storey houses. You get a 4 bedroom house, but the footprint and as a result the groundfloor living area is smaller than a 2 storey house.

Front gardens rarely exist in new builds now also, you get 2 parking spaces in front of the house.

You will also have an estate full of teenagers 12-15 years after they are built. It can be hard to predict how an estate will mature... Some work out better than others.

Personally I have preferred to buy in mature, established areas and spent money on upgrades etc..

Somebody mentioned buying a house for granite worktops... Personally I prefer to install a new kitchen in a nice mature estate.

youcancallmeal

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

You mean you don't replace your controller every year? :pac:

---

As an aside I've a heat pump heating system and have lived in the house two years. The maintenance for that time has been €300 ( 2 * €150 annual services).

Also electricity bills are roughly €65-80pm to heat, light and work from the house all year round (would be at the high end of the scale in winter).

From what I've heard of people with heat pump this is far more closer to the norm than €450 a year on maintenance.

I've an A2W heat pump as well. Been in the house 4 years and it's working out around 1k a year for heat and electricity. I asked the heat pump expert when we moved in if it needed annual maintenance and he said no, just make sure its configured properly and give them a call if there's any problems. He reckoned it would be 10-15 years before it would need any maintenance/replacement of parts. All good so far anyway.

As to ops question we had the same dilemma when buying whether to go for new build or 2nd hand in a our desired area. New build is 4 bed and has small driveway and back garden. It is actually 2 story which seems to be the exception to the rule in recent years of tall narrow 3 story. The 2nd hand houses we were looking at and could afford in the area where we wanted to live were only 3 bed and had poor energy ratings. In the end the htb and 4 bed swung it for us. I'm fairly happy but the wife is still hoping we can sell up in a few years and get a 4 bed 2nd hand in our originally desired area. I'd really miss the heat pump, there's a lot to be said for hassle free constant house temp and 24/7 hot water.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

How much would a A rated house save in bills a year approximately vs say a C or D rated house?

awec

MattS1 wrote: »

How much would a A rated house save in bills a year approximately vs say a C or D rated house?

There is a big difference between a C and a D.

An A2, which is the best BER you'd get from a developer, would probably save you 1-2k a year, fluctuating on whether or not it's a good C or a bad D.

cruizer101

youcancallmeal wrote: »

I asked the heat pump expert when we moved in if it needed annual maintenance and he said no, just make sure its configured properly and give them a call if there's any problems. He reckoned it would be 10-15 years before it would need any maintenance/replacement of parts. All good so far anyway.

I would check the manufactuters recommedations on this. I know someone who didn't get theirs serviced and ended up with a hefty bill that they were told could have been avoided if the unit was serviced.

hmmm

When I was younger I'd have focused a lot on the property, but these days I focus more on the community. I'd prefer an older place in a settled community. You can fix draughts, but you can do nothing about your neighbours.

MicktheMan

MattS1 wrote: »

How much would a A rated house save in bills a year approximately vs say a C or D rated house?

Maybe +/- €1000 per annum ish for a standard 3 bed semi.

I wouldn't be getting too hung up on the energy rating and its effect on bills though. All things being equal, in general, the bills should be lower for better ratings but when it comes to housing all things are definitely not equal unfortunately.

For example, I live in a 210 sqm 1970's house with an official BER of C1. If my house was to perform as a C1, you would expect by bills for heating and hot water to be around the €2,200 mark. My actual average annual bills over the last five years for heating & hot water is €650, equivalent to a BER somewhere in the A1/A2 region.

Why is this? Imo, it is because there are too many assumptions and not enough testing of existing houses to make the BER system anything other than a box ticking waste of time for the existing housing segment.

Btw, you can also get so called A rated houses performing in real life like a C or a D rating.

SEPT 23 1989

I would pay the extra for fuel in exchange for the space and reduced noise levels

Worth every cent

IHateNewShoes

Very interesting thread. I am in a similar position to the OP myself.

It is hard to justify spending 300k approx on a second hand house Vs. paying 350k on a similar new build when you factor in the HTB in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, it is very frustrating seeing new builds that have gone from 335k to 350k since September last year due to the HTB being raised to 30k. It really is lining the pockets of developers!