Viability of small dairy farm

TooOldBoots

Pilgrim Hill TG4 @ 23:25
Compulsory viewing for any budding small scale Batchelor Dairy farmer

jaymla627

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Within 5 years you will not be allowed to stock on milking platforms at higher than 3.5 cows/
HA. Dairy farmers in derogations will be regulated by the EPA the same as chicken and pig farms

The epa won't be needed at all, once derogation is scrapped everyone's is put back to having to stay under 170/ha and your dairy cow counts as a 100kgs n, it will be impossible to flood the milking platform with stock unless you want to rent half the ground in the parish

Ford4life

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Within 5 years you will not be allowed to stock on milking platforms at higher than 3.5 cows/
HA. Dairy farmers in derogations will be regulated by the EPA the same as chicken and pig farms

Have 60 acres overall so 25 hectares, thats 87 cows maximum but id never go up to that
Or is it specifically the grazing ground? If so i could possibly try to buy land across the road and tidy it up, increase the grazing land to around 50 acres
How much would land that is covered in furze bushes go for per acre? Good earth underneath the furze, bits and pieces of rock but that could easily be buried.

einn32

jaymla627 wrote: »

The epa won't be needed at all, once derogation is scrapped everyone's is put back to having to stay under 170/ha and your dairy cow counts as a 100kgs n, it will be impossible to flood the milking platform with stock unless you want to rent half the ground in the parish

What is the consequence if you don't comply with the 170kgs of N per Ha? BPS reduced or taken away?

FintanMcluskey

Pilgrim hill is on TG4 tonight at 11:25.

Seen it mentioned in this thread, a great film

Water John

Maybe it was Bass, but on another thread that the 170 kg N will in future equate to 1.91 LU/Ha?

Ford4life

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Pilgrim hill is on TG4 tonight at 11:25.

Seen it mentioned in this thread, a great film

Its been so long since i have watched TV i can barely remember how to turn it on better start now incase i miss it

Ford4life

Water John wrote: »

Maybe it was Bass, but on another thread that the 170 kg N will in future equate to 1.91 LU/Ha?

If it goes to that most fellas milking would probably pack up altogether, after the expansion over the last few years with fellas building huge parlours and sheds etc no way they could keep up with repayments if most have to reduce their herd by atleast 1 cow/ha

Say my name

Ford4life wrote: »

Its been so long since i have watched TV i can barely remember how to turn it on better start now incase i miss it

A bit of a warning. It's on late for a reason.

Pat Shortt gives the acting performance of his career. Not a nice ending.

If you were looking for the positive in this. You could say posters on here are just trying to show tough love.

Keep your optimism whatever you do in life. You've a bunch of that in spades.

Donald Trump

Ford4life wrote: »

Have 60 acres overall so 25 hectares, thats 87 cows maximum but id never go up to that
Or is it specifically the grazing ground? If so i could possibly try to buy land across the road and tidy it up, increase the grazing land to around 50 acres
How much would land that is covered in furze bushes go for per acre? Good earth underneath the furze, bits and pieces of rock but that could easily be buried.

There are various reasons why that land might be covered in furze.



One might be that people, who knew their stuff back in the day, figured out that that was really all it was good for.

FintanMcluskey

Say my name wrote: »

A bit of a warning. It's on late for a reason.

Pat Shortt gives the acting performance of his career. Not a nice ending.

If you were looking for the positive in this. You could say posters on here are just trying to show tough love.

Keep your optimism whatever you do in life. You've a bunch of that in spades.

It’s haunting alright.

The loneliest place in the world.

He referred to being trapped a few times already in the film

TooOldBoots

Say my name wrote: »

A bit of a warning. It's on late for a reason.

Pat Shortt gives the acting performance of his career. Not a nice ending.

If you were looking for the positive in this. You could say posters on here are just trying to show tough love.

Keep your optimism whatever you do in life. You've a bunch of that in spades.

Joe Mullins not Pat Shortt

Bass Reeves

jaymla627 wrote: »

The epa won't be needed at all, once derogation is scrapped everyone's is put back to having to stay under 170/ha and your dairy cow counts as a 100kgs n, it will be impossible to flood the milking platform with stock unless you want to rent half the ground in the parish

EPA have much more power than any Co Council or the department and have the expertise and know how to enforce rules. It unlikely derogations will be abolished however for ages bow all that has happened is dairy farmers went and rented land somewhere to correct any issue no matter the distance.

FintanMcluskey

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Joe Mullins not Pat Shortt

Was thinking Pat got substantially taller alright

Say my name

To the Op.

Garage is also a good film.

Birdnuts

Bass Reeves wrote: »

EPA have much more power than any Co Council or the department and have the expertise and know how to enforce rules. It unlikely derogations will be abolished however for ages bow all that has happened is dairy farmers went and rented land somewhere to correct any issue no matter the distance.

Yes - they are the principle body that implements the EU water directive of which all industries are subject too, it was under this directive that the Dutch had to destock dairy farms recently

farawaygrass

Saw a billboard ad on a main road yesterday from aurvio. It said to contact them if thinking of getting into dairy farming. Two things crossed my mind 1) it was a nice change from the vegan anti farming add, and 2) it reminded me off the whole buying the foreign properties during the boom time.

Bass Reeves

Birdnuts wrote: »

Yes - they are the principle body that implements the EU water directive of which all industries are subject too, it was under this directive that the Dutch had to destock dairy farms recently

As well they are not directly answerable to a Minister the way the Department and Co Council's are. If they are given a job and a budget they will be getting on with it

K.G.

farawaygrass wrote: »

Saw a billboard ad on a main road yesterday from aurvio. It said to contact them if thinking of getting into dairy farming. Two things crossed my mind 1) it was a nice change from the vegan anti farming add, and 2) it reminded me off the whole buying the foreign properties during the boom time.

I think you re right and its not going take a milk price crash to sort the men from the boys its just the margin aint there to cover the capital cost.the other gas thing the area thats getting the lowest milk price is seeing the most expansion.if i hear the justification for going milking is theres nothing in suckers ,its the dumbest logic ive ever heard

Donald Trump

K.G. wrote: »

I think you re right and its not going take a milk price crash to sort the men from the boys its just the margin aint there to cover the capital cost.the other gas thing the area thats getting the lowest milk price is seeing the most expansion.if i hear the justification for going milking is theres nothing in suckers ,its the dumbest logic ive ever heard

The correlation would be expected.


If the creamery suddenly has potentially double the supply from lads going mad and expanding, then they won't need to pay as much to get it in the gate.

wrangler

K.G. wrote: »

I think you re right and its not going take a milk price crash to sort the men from the boys its just the margin aint there to cover the capital cost.the other gas thing the area thats getting the lowest milk price is seeing the most expansion.if i hear the justification for going milking is theres nothing in suckers ,its the dumbest logic ive ever heard

I wouldn't agree with you, if you're young and want a career in farming, you may milk cows, why would you keep the farm in the same enterprise just because your father did it.
It's difficult to pin dairy guys/gals on here on profit per cow or even production per cow but a farmer I know was on an ad during the week and he was producing 8000ltrs/ cow so at the very least the cow is grossing €3000 plus calf.
Why would anyone farm sheep or cattle with that available, as for the difference in price.... is it €100/cow despite all the complaining.
I often accuse the public service of '' Pulling up the ladder'' maybe it applies to dairy farmers too

Mooooo

wrangler wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with you, if you're young and want a career in farming, you may milk cows, why would you keep the farm in the same enterprise just because your father did it.
It's difficult to pin dairy guys/gals on here on profit per cow or even production per cow but a farmer I know was on an ad during the week and he was producing 8000ltrs/ cow so at the very least the cow is grossing €3000 plus calf.
Why would anyone farm sheep or cattle with that available, as for the difference in price.... is it €100/cow despite all the complaining.
I often accuse the public service of '' Pulling up the ladder'' maybe it applies to dairy farmers too

Not many 8000 litre cows calving every year, not a mind getting 38 cent a litre. Averages are closer to 5500 and maybe 34/ 35 cent depending on the coop and solids this year, calf price last year if gone early was prob 50 to 100 down here anyway. Most are also prob closer to the tonne of meal at that as well.
It's simple enough at the end of the day, do out a plan and see if it will work for ye. Plenty of the commentary for and against come from lads who aren't at cows anyway so go away and join a good discussion group and talk to people how have experience of it. Every farms case is different

K.G.

wrangler wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with you, if you're young and want a career in farming, you may milk cows, why would you keep the farm in the same enterprise just because your father did it.
It's difficult to pin dairy guys/gals on here on profit per cow or even production per cow but a farmer I know was on an ad during the week and he was producing 8000ltrs/ cow so at the very least the cow is grossing €3000 plus calf.
Why would anyone farm sheep or cattle with that available, as for the difference in price.... is it €100/cow despite all the complaining.
I often accuse the public service of '' Pulling up the ladder'' maybe it applies to dairy farmers too

Ah sure cant say i didnt warn them.i ve no doubt some will do well but i m sure i can do figures that show if you have a beligan bull weanling out every sucker every year that dosent get scour or pneumonia you will do very nicely.

wrangler

Mooooo wrote: »

Not many 8000 litre cows calving every year, not a mind getting 38 cent a litre. Averages are closer to 5500 and maybe 34/ 35 cent depending on the coop and solids this year, calf price last year if gone early was prob 50 to 100 down here anyway. Most are also prob closer to the tonne of meal at that as well.
It's simple enough at the end of the day, do out a plan and see if it will work for ye. Plenty of the commentary for and against come from lads who aren't at cows anyway so go away and join a good discussion group and talk to people how have experience of it. Every farms case is different

.
Actually two ton meal, it's way ahead of drystock and for someone who's starting their farming career it has to be considered,
Fattening store cattle doesn't work, too many hobby farmer at it giving too much money for store cattle and most part time farmers can't take time off to calve cows/ lamb ewes.
So it's full time dairying or nothing, the threatened withdrawal of subsidies will finish the reat

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

.
Actually two ton meal, it's way ahead of drystock and for someone who's starting their farming career it has to be considered,
Fattening store cattle doesn't work, too many hobby farmer at it giving too much money for store cattle and most part time farmers can't take time off to calve cows/ lamb ewes.
So it's full time dairying or nothing, the threatened withdrawal of subsidies will finish the reat

It all depends weather your comfortable mortgaging the place to facilitate the switchover in alot of cases and commiting to 20 odd years of been tied to cows before you could consider pulling the pin, when milk was at 20 odd cent in the summer of 2016 it was no joke

wrangler

K.G. wrote: »

Ah sure cant say i didnt warn them.i ve no doubt some will do well but i m sure i can do figures that show if you have a beligan bull weanling out every sucker every year that dosent get scour or pneumonia you will do very nicely.

8000 lttrs is averaged over 100+ cows..... this guy has two helping him plus a relief they have a teenage son as well so handy number, they fatten all progeny also

cute geoge

wrangler wrote: »

8000 lttrs is averaged over 100+ cows..... this guy has two helping him plus a relief they have a teenage son as well so handy number, they fatten all progeny also

So there is at least 4 drawing a wage from the 8000 litre cow you can probably add a wage for the vet as well ,the profit gets small very quick by the time everyone will be paid

wrangler

cute geoge wrote: »

So there is at least 4 drawing a wage from the 8000 litre cow you can probably add a wage for the vet as well ,the profit gets small very quick by the time everyone will be paid

Still, €300000 +120000 for progeny...... there's a bit of spending in it

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Still, €300000 +120000 for progeny...... there's a bit of spending in it

Paper never refused ink and O suppose we should day now that a screen never refused a keystroke. By your figures he is achieving 1200 average hot progeny. On every business there are outliers for profitability and.losses. Neither should be considered as the norm. It like Teagasc's and Farmers Journal hyping of the top 10%. If the average run of the mill unit cannot make a profit then the industry is in trouble. Generally 8k litre cows would be average fat and protein depending on volume to achieve extra profit. These cows are doing 1800 gallons these type of cows are not for everyone.

1200/ cow average for progeny is either pedigree sales or a drystock unit as well. You also made a sweeping statement I. Another post regarding the reason for poor profitability in drystock blaming part-time back on the hobby horse again. Saying lads were paying too much for stores, quite simply matter if the store man is not making a margin he will exit the game as well.

At present rations are about 280/ton no matter how efficient you are you cannot make a margin at that. Reason there is no margin is every year the winter finisher loses he will be bailed out. The answer is not looked at where the issue is.

However I digress, no matter how efficient you are or what type of cow you look at milking on 40-50 acre platforms is gone or going out the door

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Paper never refused ink and O suppose we should day now that a screen never refused a keystroke. By your figures he is achieving 1200 average hot progeny. On every business there are outliers for profitability and.losses. Neither should be considered as the norm. It like Teagasc's and Farmers Journal hyping of the top 10%. If the average run of the mill unit cannot make a profit then the industry is in trouble. Generally 8k litre cows would be average fat and protein depending on volume to achieve extra profit. These cows are doing 1800 gallons these type of cows are not for everyone.

1200/ cow average for progeny is either pedigree sales or a drystock unit as well. You also made a sweeping statement I. Another post regarding the reason for poor profitability in drystock blaming part-time back on the hobby horse again. Saying lads were paying too much for stores, quite simply matter if the store man is not making a margin he will exit the game as well.

At present rations are about 280/ton no matter how efficient you are you cannot make a margin at that. Reason there is no margin is every year the winter finisher loses he will be bailed out. The answer is not looked at where the issue is.

However I digress, no matter how efficient you are or what type of cow you look at milking on 40-50 acre platforms is gone or going out the door

You should read over your posts they're difficult to make out some times, relying too much on predictive text.
I said hobby farmers paying too much for cattle, plenty of those around, specially those that get cattle just dropped off from a dealer.
I'm sure the progeny of that farm gross 1200/hd, any way it was just a guess, say 1000/hd, €100000 if you like. their dairying supples all the infrastructure for feeding efficiently. but it gets my point across, farmers are entitled to convert to a better enterprise and there's lots of reasons for converting.