Practice

Cass

How many of you, current situation not withstanding, practice and to what extent.

Is it a few informal rounds whenever you feel like it to keep zero or do you train like you would shoot in a competition and at regular intervals?

Does ammo conservation come into your train of thought or do you fire as many as needed?

Also do you shoot alone? I've found when i practice i think i'm doing fine then someone will tell me i'm flinching or snapping the trigger. I've since found it best to have at least one set of eyes on me to point out my faults rather than blame the firearm/gear.

clivej

I'd practice every Saturday at the range. A lot of pinking but mixed in with full gallery competition practice as well. And also to run competitions as the CRO and call the details.
I'd try to alternate between rifles and handguns, and shotgun when I can.
As you've said it's not been a good year for shooting as both the ranges I'd attend aren't in my county so I can't travel.
BUT today I've got to get to my farm permission to try and drop some vermin, even the very big ones that that farmer classes as vermin.

Peppa Cig

I shoot whenever I get the chance.

Shoot at the range maybe monthly (in normal times) Usually with the .22LR rifle/pistol. This would be on my own mostly but always happy to receive guidance and advice from seasoned sports kin.

Wouldn’t be that shy about using up ammo when
Shooting but proberly would be keeping half note of the number of .308 going downrange.

Lucky to have a bit of land so can shoot whenever. Enjoyed shooting eggs today at 100 metres with the air rifle in between vermin control.

Have yet to enter comps (would not consider myself good enough). Would love to get some
training on PRS.

Wadi14

Most people think you have to be at the range shooting off loads of rounds to be practicing, nothing could be further from the truth.
Dry fire training at home will be the most beneficial training you have ever done.
But like heading to the range and firing off loads of ammo, and doing things wrong dry fire training must be planned and carried out correctly, or its a waste of your time also.

I have to admire the ISSF shooters they figured it out many years ago , they draw up their training plans, they have their scatt machines, they carry out their mental training and they dry fire, so when they like us can enjoy getting back to the ranges again we all will have our bases covered.

Cass

I went through some lean years (financially) so ammo was not always available to me and what i did have i tended to ration which lead to improper training. Then there the availability of some ammo like 9mm. Inconsistent levels of the wanted ammo which meant i had to use other ammo. Now for pistol shooting this was not a major issue, but still caused issues (range length and firearm choice is closely linked).

Dry firing is something i never think to do. In my mind the muscle memory factor doesn't come into it, and all i think of is i won't get the same benefit of actual firing and managing recoil which in retrospect is silly given grip, handling, mag changes, aiming, etc. is vital and can be practiced without firing so thanks for that.

Wadi14

The 2 words that stand out to me there Cass is managing recoil the reason I say this is because if we are talking pistol shooting most of the time we have loads of time to get back onto a target if shooting comps in Ireland. Of course being able to manage recoils is important but its what happens before the gun recoils that is important to me.

To me and maybe I'm the only one that takes this view is, if shooting on the range the recoil may be taking away from some of the information that can be gathered. What I mean by that is we fire the shot and the gun recoils so we are then thinking of getting it back on target, with dry firing you can gather loads of information like, was my sights correctly aligned when I released the shot ? is the barrel moving left or right as I put pressure on the trigger ? am I tightening my trigger hand as I press the trigger ? am I snatching the trigger ? am I following through ?.

JP22

No practice with current restrictions.

In normal times I go to the range (50yd RF BR) weekly and twice a week if possible.

Dry firing is a great way to practice and as others have said its always nice to have someone keeping an on you to observe and bad habits.
Re dry firing - it is not recommended to continually dry fire some firearms. Note - dry firing pins are available for some firearms.

Air rifle (don't have one, yet..) are one of the absolute best and cheapest ways to practice. Due to its slower MV you have to get everything perfect to shoot them super accurate.

Cass

Pistol shooting is something i need as much advice as i can get.

Wadi14 wrote: »

was my sights correctly aligned when I released the shot ?

Not always and that in itself is a problem.

is the barrel moving left or right as I put pressure on the trigger ?

Yes.

am I tightening my trigger hand as I press the trigger ?

Yes.

am I snatching the trigger ?

I do, not always but more often than i realise.

am I following through ?.

No.

In have one major issue, other than lack of practice. My hands. I've seemingly small hands. This results in an improper grip on the pistol or more accurately the feeling of an improper grip. Now the pistol is great and accurate as hell, when rested and the rest takes the aim/weight out of the equation. However i always feel like i'm not in "full control".

I hope that doesn't come across as dangerous or unsafe cause its not. I mean i am focusing so much on proper grip that i lose focus on sights, target and eventually follow through/trigger pull.

Its a Sig with double stack mag which makes the mag well larger and a little too large for comfort. This gets "in my head" when firing and i focus too much on it and disregard the rest of the basics.

Now the simple solution is to ignore it, but even when i do i still have trouble. I can hit the target and have an average score but no matter what i try i find i'm not improving. Granted more practice would help, but practicing with my mistakes is causing a stagnancy in my ability.

As for the rest, i definitely need help.

Trigger pull. The trigger is heavy, but not hugely so. About 3lb. There is a little creep but i'm used to my own gun so know the breaking point. When i fire a shot the gun will recoil back, obviously, but i get a "wobble". If it were a rifle the way i'd describe it is instead of recoiling straight back into my shoulder the gun would come back and left. Always left. I presume this is down to grip as i do ten to squeeze my hands as i fire. I'm right handed and use my right index finger to pull the trigger so exert more pressure with my right hand and hence the left pull. Well actually its more a push.

Sights. I had a nightmare trying to install a red dot (never got to fire a shot a shot with it) so went back to my target/original sights. Front sight and adjustable rear sight. I can focus on the front sight and blurred target, or clear rear sights and slightly blurred target, but not all three. I tried the front sight only method and was all over the target. I then tried a suggestion to not try to hold the pistol rock solid, but instead allow my natural movement, convert it to a sideways figure 8, and fire as it crosses the bull. My figure 8 goes from the 7/8 ring at 3 to 7/8 ring at 9 (about 3 inches) and me firing as it crosses the bull.

It helped at short range, but back at 20 - 25 yards not so much and again i'm holding 4 to 5 left each time. The effect was worse at 25 yards but i suspect that is because of distance as the closer i get the less the pull has time to cause effect.

The follow through is not great due to this instability in firing.

Cass

JP22 wrote: »

No practice with current restrictions.

Tell me about it. Even under level 3 i cannot go, the range is outside my county. Last February is when i was last at the range. Hope my Super is understanding come renewal.

Re dry firing - it is not recommended to continually dry fire some firearms. Note - dry firing pins are available for some firearms.

Sig, as my biggest issue is pistol shooting, not only don't recommend it they specifically say don't. To the extent they have a de-cocking release on the pistol so you don't dry fire to de-cock.

Air rifle (don't have one, yet..) are one of the absolute best and cheapest ways to practice. Due to its slower MV you have to get everything perfect to shoot them super accurate.

I had a 22 pistol with the intention to use it to break bad habits, learn the fundamentals and then hopefully translate that to my CF pistol. The pistol turned out to be a lemon and after weeks of fighting with it i gave it back. Never got another since, but might need to readdress that.

Do you reckon a 22 would act as a good "surrogate"?

JP22

Cass wrote: »

Tell me about it. Even under level 3 i cannot go, the range is outside my county. Last February is when i was last at the range. Hope my Super is understanding come renewal.

Do you reckon a 22 would act as a good "surrogate"?

Absolutely Cass.

Served for 34 yrs myself and we practiced with .22 RF and air rifles indoors, that is those of us who liked to shoot competitively and those on shooting teams.

Folks think 22's are easy, but try shooting wee dots at 50yds.

Wadi14

Firstly I know exactly what you mean when saying, not being in full control.

So you have to deal with the pistol grip before anything else, if the grip is too large can you explore any other options, can aftermarket smaller grips be sourced? can you get someone to make you grips with thinner back strap or even no front to the grip., wood grips maybe.
I always explain it as, if you where going to a wedding and your new suit trousers where too long in the leg you would have them adjusted to fit you, same with pistol grips.

The reason your pistol recoils to the left , isn't the fault of the right hand its mostly the fault of the left hand, the energy from the recoil will force the pistol to take the path of least resistance, the left hand should be filling the void between the right thumb and fingers on the grip, if it is not the pistol finds that gap and goes that direction.

Sights and aiming , number 1 you wont be able to hold the pistol still no one can so don't beat yourself up on that one.
As we get older we cant focus on more than one thing in the sight picture and I'm sorry to say you need to go back to focusing on the front sight, I got glasses made up to focus closer as I was having difficulty seeing close as the front sight.

Moving all over the target has to do with everything from the grip, hold, stance, alinement , there could be a lot of things going on there.

I'll end where I started, you need to do something about the grip on the pistol, take that grip off and replace it with anything it will make a big difference.

Cass

The one thing the 22, for as short a while as i had it, did teach me was one glaring fault i didn't know i had.

Was on the range, firing the CF. Doing average as usual. I switched to the 22 for a while as i was getting frustrated. On my first shot, while aiming, i leaned forward and when the recoil of the CF did not happen i noticed how i almost stumbled forward. Now that is an over exaggeration, but i did in fact anticipate the recoil so much that i leaned into the shot and done so excessively. It was one of those "a-ha" moments (and not the band).

I tried to undo this habit i didn't know i had by purposely checking my stance, staying upright and allowing my arms to absorb the recoil (although i don't know if this is correct either).

BTW when i'm say i'm not great at pistol shooting i used to have a decent shot, better than average actually, but over the years i let the pistol shooting slip in favour of other disciplines (rifle mostly) and that little muscle memory i had built up was gone. I kept up with my pistol shooting but due to various reasons my practice went from a few thousand, between comps, to a couple of hundred and fewer comps.

Trying to amend that since last February but thank you covid, ya bastard. :D

Cass

I should add, in case it seems i'm making a case for not deserving a pistol, i like my pistol, like the shooting, and want to at least get back to where i was a few years back, but since the downturn in pistol owners the pool of lads to turn to for advice has shrunk, considerably. So i'm like any newbie (all over again) and trying to figure it out by reading, but reading and practical application of that information are two distinct things.

Cass

Wadi14 wrote: »

So you have to deal with the pistol grip before anything else, if the grip is too large can you explore any other options, can aftermarket smaller grips be sourced?

I changed the timber, original, grips out for a hogue rubber grip. Its the same size/diameter but with finger knurls and rubber texture i have a great sense of secure grip. Problem being they were installed last March and i haven't fired the gun with them on it since i installed them due to lockdown.

The reason your pistol recoils to the left , isn't the fault of the right hand its mostly the fault of the left hand, the energy from the recoil will force the pistol to take the path of least resistance, the left hand should be filling the void between the right thumb and fingers on the grip, if it is not the pistol finds that gap and goes that direction.

Ah. Makes sense. My left wouldn't have filled void with the old grips, but seems to with the new ones. However won't be able to tell until i get to fire it.

Sights and aiming , number 1 you wont be able to hold the pistol still no one can so don't beat yourself up on that one.

Coolio.

As we get older we cant focus on more than one thing in the sight picture and I'm sorry to say you need to go back to focusing on the front sight, I got glasses made up to focus closer as I was having difficulty seeing close as the front sight.

In my 40s now so perhaps its time to admit i need glasses. Side note, i'm having "trouble" reading things i didn't before so i suppose i could get that sorted before returning to the range.

Moving all over the target has to do with everything from the grip, hold, stance, alinement , there could be a lot of things going on there.

Yeah, i've thrown a lot at you, and as i say when trying to help lads i could sort it in 5 minutes if i seen it, but through an internet forum it can be a hassle so i appreciate any help and don't be shy about treating me like a noob.

My stance is usually good enough but would you suggest Isosceles or Weaver or is it a case of which feels right?

I'll end where I started, you need to do something about the grip on the pistol, take that grip off and replace it with anything it will make a big difference.

It seems to and i should have thought of that before posting, but i wasn't expecting the thread to be solely about pistol shooting but a happy surprise.

Feisar

In terms of rifle shooting I have found dry firing a great benefit. This was my first year in the Midlands and had great intentions but lockdown put paid to that. I'm practicing about three times a week. Working on the fundamentals except sight picture, I presume since I've nothing to aim at my comfy position is my NPA and tried to replicate when I got to the range just before Xmas. Ryan Cleckner says he dry fires in the dark so I'm not put out by the fact I can't aim at something.
Anyway I noticed a definite jump in my abilities. On the range trip before Xmas I set up a target at 300, by the time I had myself all comfy behind the rifle it had blown off. Not to be put out I started at the shards of clays on the bank behind which is what, the guts of 340 yards? I know with plinking at reactive targets one remembers the hits more than the misses but I had definitely taken a step up.
Now my mistake above is I have no fixed anything as to where I am at, I now have a notebook ready to keep track of progress.

Without anyone to see where I'm at or evaluate or provide coaching it's impossible to know where I'm at so I've decided to stop worrying about it and plug away at the fundamentals. The biggest fundamental for me is missing though, patience! Get rid of paralax fully, get my NPA down, if my breathing doesn't line up with my sight picture let the shot pass.

One thing that might of been obvious to others but dopey here never picked up on. Ye know the whole get as low as you can behind the rifle? I'd be uncomfortably low. It should be get as low as you can comfortably go.

Anyway the goal this year is to put five into one of those 1.5 inch orange target stickers.

Wadi14

Maybe you could open a coaching thread lol where we all can ask or impart things we have learnt on all firearms shooting whether it be pistol, rifle or shotgun. Ohh probably would need 3 sub groups maybe.

So your a step ahead and have changed the grip, I would take that a bit further, on handling the pistol if I feel high bits on the grip I would take some sandpaper and take them off, the closer the grip fits the hand the better, it's not the better the hand fits the grip.
Another simple thing to try is a pair of shooting cloves, they do seem to help give a solid grip, not a death grip a firm grip on the pistol.

For the eyes, if its just the close near sight is going and the rest of your vision is ok, a +0.50 or +0.75 diopter strength is usually good for pistol shooting.
The reading glasses in the shops usually don't go that low, so say a +1.5 set will be great close up but very blurry for 25m.
I think +0.50 and +0.75 can be got online.
If you get you eyes tested and find you need distance lens as well you would get +0.50 or +0.75 diopter added to your prescription for pistol shooting glasses.

Stance, The simple answer would be what ever works best for the individual shooter that is repeatable and gives you the best results.
Weaver came about from being adapted from the single hand shooting that was the norm in the past, a few guys Weaver being one of them started to hold the pistol with a support hand which was never done before. As you know it's more a pull/push method.
Isosceles is a more modern stance that most competition shooters use nowadays I think it's better suited to what we do on the range here in Ireland, the targets are static we are static face on to the target with good support from out Isosceles frame.

Cass

Feisar wrote: »

This was my first year in the Midlands and had great intentions but lockdown put paid to that.

Without anyone to see where I'm at or evaluate or provide coaching it's impossible to know where I'm at so I've decided to stop worrying about it and plug away at the fundamentals. .

Might be a while but when i get back over keep an eye out for me and i'll happily help out where and if i can. Rifle shooting is what i'm comfortable with so might have a few pointers.

Cass

Wadi14 wrote: »

Maybe you could open a coaching thread lol where we all can ask or impart things we have learnt on all firearms shooting whether it be pistol, rifle or shotgun. Ohh probably would need 3 sub groups maybe.

Its not great, but how about this - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115964807#post115964807

So your a step ahead and have changed the grip, I would take that a bit further, on handling the pistol if I feel high bits on the grip I would take some sandpaper and take them off, the closer the grip fits the hand the better, it's not the better the hand fits the grip.

I'm slightly the opposite in that i like the knurled feeling. I've had two stocks mad and both had this, at my request, made into them.

Another simple thing to try is a pair of shooting cloves, they do seem to help give a solid grip, not a death grip a firm grip on the pistol.

Have three pair, but never used them due to "fiddliness" when relaoding, but i'll start to use them.

For the eyes, if its just the close near sight is going and the rest of your vision is ok, a +0.50 or +0.75 diopter strength is usually good for pistol shooting.
The reading glasses in the shops usually don't go that low, so say a +1.5 set will be great close up but very blurry for 25m.
I think +0.50 and +0.75 can be got online.
If you get you eyes tested and find you need distance lens as well you would get +0.50 or +0.75 diopter added to your prescription for pistol shooting glasses.

Must save the above so i can remember it.

Stance, The simple answer would be what ever works best for the individual shooter that is repeatable and gives you the best results.

Isosceles works best for me so stick with it?

Feisar

Cass wrote: »

Might be a while but when i get back over keep an eye out for me and i'll happily help out where and if i can. Rifle shooting is what i'm comfortable with so might have a few pointers.

Thanks, I’ll take you up on that. Another of the lads here msgd me last year but then Covid

Feisar

I also disassociate the wallet lightening trip to the RFD with my shooting. I’d never enjoy it if I was thinking: BANG - €2.50!

JP22

Feisar wrote: »

In terms of rifle shooting I have found dry firing a great benefit. This was my first year in the Midlands and had great intentions but lockdown put paid to that. I'm practicing about three times a week. Working on the fundamentals except sight picture, I presume since I've nothing to aim at my comfy position is my NPA and tried to replicate when I got to the range just before Xmas. Ryan Cleckner says he dry fires in the dark so I'm not put out by the fact I can't aim at something.
Anyway I noticed a definite jump in my abilities. On the range trip before Xmas I set up a target at 300, by the time I had myself all comfy behind the rifle it had blown off. Not to be put out I started at the shards of clays on the bank behind which is what, the guts of 340 yards? I know with plinking at reactive targets one remembers the hits more than the misses but I had definitely taken a step up.
Now my mistake above is I have no fixed anything as to where I am at, I now have a notebook ready to keep track of progress.

Without anyone to see where I'm at or evaluate or provide coaching it's impossible to know where I'm at so I've decided to stop worrying about it and plug away at the fundamentals. The biggest fundamental for me is missing though, patience! Get rid of paralax fully, get my NPA down, if my breathing doesn't line up with my sight picture let the shot pass.

One thing that might of been obvious to others but dopey here never picked up on. Ye know the whole get as low as you can behind the rifle? I'd be uncomfortably low. It should be get as low as you can comfortably go.

Anyway the goal this year is to put five into one of those 1.5 inch orange target stickers.

Like any other discipline is life shooting accurately is all about practice, practice............., repetition, repetition............, this builds up good muscle memory.

The only downside to practicing alone is that inexperienced users cannot see what mistakes they are making. This is where a second pair of experienced eyes comes into play.

Patience - you must be patient, if you cannot be patient and calm it can play havoc with your heart rate and breathing.

Years ago I shot lots clay pigeon (expensive), the best money I ever spent was on a coach for a couple of hours of basic tuition.

Books, there are lots of good books available and some are well worth getting. They lay down the basic principles of good marksmanship.

https://www.intershoot.co.uk/acatalog/Books.html

This probably should have gone under the new section of Target Shooting.

Feisar

Regarding books I was looking at getting Ways of the Rifle, would you recommend it?

Yea a bit of tuition would be great hopefully when things open up again it'll happen. You need it in any sport. I see my father-in-law there, he'd be counted a very good golfer, he still goes to a lad for coaching/tune ups.