Ireland is a pretend football country

Strumms

dan1895 wrote: »

I know that but the point is there is the physical space there for those capacities and really would it cost €35 million to bring both grounds up to a decent standard suitable for the league of Ireland. Keep in mind the new Dalymount isn't suitable for group stage european football.

Problem with Dalymount too is it’s location. Every stand and terrace backs onto residential properties at very close quarters too.

I’d say there would be some disagreement amongst traditionalists but I think Bohs should have left Dalymount.

The stadium is not fit for purpose. The redesign and upgrade leaves it with greater comfort but ...capacity still under that as required by UEFA to hold European games which I believe is 9,000.. Stephen Kenny who I wouldn’t often agree with but a former Bohs man agrees...

https://www.dublinlive.ie/sport/dalymount-park-plans-show-lack-17023815

A lack of ambition is 100% accurate...

Moving to Aviva for European games is a cod...a giveaway of home advantage, a carnivorous stadium with 15000-20000 people maybe...does nada for atmosphere. 35-45% of capacity.

Pity the government(s) wouldn’t back football even to a small extent the governments have backed the gaa.

breezy1985

Agree Lansdowne would be a disaster unless you were playing one of the really big European sides. Dublin teams would be much better off in the RDS if it came to it

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Problem with Dalymount too is it’s location. Every stand and terrace backs onto residential properties at very close quarters too.

I’d say there would be some disagreement amongst traditionalists but I think Bohs should have left Dalymount.

The stadium is not fit for purpose. The redesign and upgrade leaves it with greater comfort but ...capacity still under that as required by UEFA to hold European games which I believe is 9,000.. Stephen Kenny who I wouldn’t often agree with but a former Bohs man agrees...

https://www.dublinlive.ie/sport/dalymount-park-plans-show-lack-17023815

A lack of ambition is 100% accurate...

Moving to Aviva for European games is a cod...a giveaway of home advantage, a carnivorous stadium with 15000-20000 people maybe...does nada for atmosphere. 35-45% of capacity.

Pity the government(s) wouldn’t back football even to a small extent the governments have backed the gaa.

Very hard to build new stadia on the footprint of the old ones in urban areas but in general I prefer to see them stay where they are embedded in the community. A 6,000 seater stadium seems very small for both clubs requirements though, is there going to be any scope to expand beyond that once this project is completed?

While Government backing for infrastructure would be great, do we really trust the FAI to manage any such infrastructure?

dan1895

[Deleted User] wrote: »

is there going to be any scope to expand beyond that once this project is completed?

Not that I'm aware.

EmmetSpiceland

breezy1985 wrote: »

Agree Lansdowne would be a disaster unless you were playing one of the really big European sides. Dublin teams would be much better off in the RDS if it came to it

Might be better off in Donnybrook than in the RDS.

breezy1985

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Might be better off in Donnybrook than in the RDS.

How would a stadium the same size as new Dalymount be a good idea given that the issue is the Champions League doesn't allow stadia that size ?

dan1895

dan1895 wrote: »

Not that I'm aware.

Honestly seems a massive waste in that case. In a city the size of Dublin, both clubs should be able to outgrow that capacity in time.

Did you smash it

As I said in the OP Irish football is smalltime and until we face up to that and commit more to it we are swimming against the tide. That a revamped Dalymount will only have 6k capacity is proof positive of that. That stadium has to be 10k minimum.

EmmetSpiceland

breezy1985 wrote: »

How would a stadium the same size as new Dalymount be a good idea given that the issue is the Champions League doesn't allow stadia that size ?

Sorry, I thought you meant for atmosphere. Is there nowhere else? Always felt bad for soccer players having to play on a rugby pitch.

tastyt

Have to agree with what’s being said . It really is so “ Irish “ in football terms to be celebrating a 6k seater stadium for one of the biggest clubs in the country slap bang in the middle of a city of one and a half million .

Very small time and short sighted stuff. I can see bohs having a big European tie in a few years and everyone pissing and moaning about not being able to play it at home. If 9k is the European standard for games well then it should be built for 9k. We are actually building something brand new that is already out of date and obsolete by European standards

It sums up Irish football though , half arsed , bad planning , not enough money and will probably take 10 years to happen

Did you smash it

If we accept we don’t really care about sport as a nation then fair enough. It’s not for us.

But what really stirs my ****e is that we go on like we are sports mad but ultimately where it counts (investment) we aren’t.

Leroy42

We are sports mad, just not for LOI football.

Just because the majority of people don't ascribe to one particular aspect of sport, doesn't make them not into sport. There is a massive following for soccer in this country, hence the massive support for EPL, internationals etc.

LOI is just not something that the vast majority of people in this country watch. It has been given any advantage to try to push it. Massive media following, live matches, all Internationals FTA. But people have made their opinions clear by not supporting the clubs or the league.

And the idea that football is suffering due to a lack of investment is simply not true. It has had millions pumped into it, both by the football governing bodies and the government. That the FAI choose to waste the vast majority of that is not the fault of the supporters or the wider public.

Did you smash it

Leroy42 wrote: »

And the idea that football is suffering due to a lack of investment is simply not true. It has had millions pumped into it, both by the football governing bodies and the government. That the FAI choose to waste the vast majority of that is not the fault of the supporters or the wider public.

You’re entitled to your opinion but I’d be of the opinion football in this country and other sports as well suffer from under investment.

We are a rich country with two UEFA standard football stadia in the country. That is galling even with indifference towards the LOI.

Did you smash it

Here’s an article showing the top 10 stadiums in Europe’s poorest country Albania and a country that has qualified to one tournament in their entire history and never qualify to CL groups or Europa groups either.

https://www.albanopedia.com/travel/albanian-stadiums

It puts us to absolute shame. Every other European country puts us to shame.

We are a joke of a football country or a pretend one as I said in the OP. A lot of the reasons for that is underinvestment - by government, the private sector and the general public.

Strumms

tastyt wrote: »

Have to agree with what’s being said . It really is so “ Irish “ in football terms to be celebrating a 6k seater stadium for one of the biggest clubs in the country slap bang in the middle of a city of one and a half million .

Very small time and short sighted stuff. I can see bohs having a big European tie in a few years and everyone pissing and moaning about not being able to play it at home. If 9k is the European standard for games well then it should be built for 9k. We are actually building something brand new that is already out of date and obsolete by European standards

It sums up Irish football though , half arsed , bad planning , not enough money and will probably take 10 years to happen

I remember the Jodi stand being built in Dalymount, it was about 10 years from being talked about and plans to bums on seats..if not longer.

That’s short sighted guff is simply continuous.

Dalymount “the home of Irish football”.... getting dewy-eyed over a facility and location not fit for purpose, located in a place not suitable for expansion that can enable you to play Champions League is just so irish...

Teams and their successes... not dew eyed reminiscing over run down stadia...then replacing them with stadium upgrades that you aren’t even allowed to play in IF you reach European elite.

Should have sold Dalymount and tried to get funding for a 11,000 all seater somewhere in North Dublin for both clubs, that can be expanded if required.

The Arts Council gets a grant, in 2021 of 130 million

http://www.artscouncil.ie/funding/


It would cost about 18-20 million to build a new stadium... a one off investment that can make a profit.

Arts council get investment every year, millions.

Leroy42

So we should just build stadiums to keep up with the Jonses even if supporters don't want them?

There isn't the required level of support. We could of course spend money on building them, but why? So we can act Billy big balls at the Uefa dinner?

The clubs, and FAI, need to figure this out, not simply hope for someone else to sort it for them.

How do they plan to attract new supporters? Football has been given plenty of chances plenty of advantages. Maybe instead of a new stadium we build proper tennis courts, swimming pools, velodrome, gymnastics, basketball, netball, cricket etc.

Football is well catered for in this country, certainly well ahead of other sports.

tastyt

Did you smash it wrote: »

Here’s an article showing the top 10 stadiums in Europe’s poorest country Albania and a country that has qualified to one tournament in their entire history and never qualify to CL groups or Europa groups either.

https://www.albanopedia.com/travel/albanian-stadiums

It puts us to absolute shame. Every other European country puts us to shame.

We are a joke of a football country or a pretend one as I said in the OP. A lot of the reasons for that is underinvestment - by government, the private sector and the general public.

This really does put us to shame .

However there is the obvious elephant in the room....

We have stadiums the same size and bigger than a lot of those in places like Portlaoise, Tullamore , Ennis , Thurles , Cavan , Kilkenny but they are not football stadiums because we are not a football country .

We are an outlier in that we are the only country in Europe that has its own indigenous sport that has the hearts and minds of the country , the influence of government and the backing of millions and millions from private corporate Ireland .

It’s just a fact . Now it’s absolutely no excuse for the shambles that has been the way football is run but is the main reason that “ professional “ football clubs in Ireland haven’t a pot to piss in

Did you smash it

Leroy42 wrote: »

So we should just build stadiums to keep up with the Jonses even if supporters don't want them?

Albania aren’t the Jones’s. They are the family who need the help of the Vincent the Paul to make ends meet.

breezy1985

Did you smash it wrote: »

You’re entitled to your opinion but I’d be of the opinion football in this country and other sports as well suffer from under investment.

We are a rich country with two UEFA standard football stadia in the country. That is galling even with indifference towards the LOI.

We are also a country of only 5 million but have Croke Park, PuC, Thomond Park and Lansdowne which are all top level stadia and add to that large more basic set ups like Semple, PnaG and the RDS and we are doing pretty well and probably better than the other 5m countries in Europe

Strumms

Leroy42 wrote: »

So we should just build stadiums to keep up with the Jonses even if supporters don't want them?

There isn't the required level of support. We could of course spend money on building them, but why? So we can act Billy big balls at the Uefa dinner?

The clubs, and FAI, need to figure this out, not simply hope for someone else to sort it for them.

How do they plan to attract new supporters? Football has been given plenty of chances plenty of advantages. Maybe instead of a new stadium we build proper tennis courts, swimming pools, velodrome, gymnastics, basketball, netball, cricket etc.

Football is well catered for in this country, certainly well ahead of other sports.

It’s not keeping up with the jonses.

It’s having facilities that are quality, comfortable and fit for purpose...ie. compliant with European Competition standards.

We have proper and excellent tennis facilities, swimming pools, I’m a swimmer I know... I go to watch a lot of cricket, always can get tickets for internationals.

What chances or advantages has football received ? It’s a massive sport yet gets crumbs... people want to grow it further by having the best facilities but the government do fûck all, or governments.

Investment in football will create in the long term more jobs, more successes.

Did you smash it

tastyt wrote: »

This really does put us to shame .

However there is the obvious elephant in the room....

We have stadiums the same size and bigger than a lot of those in places like Portlaoise, Tullamore , Ennis , Thurles , Cavan , Kilkenny but they are not football stadiums because we are not a football country .

We are an outlier in that we are the only country in Europe that has its own indigenous sport that has the hearts and minds of the country , the influence of government and the backing of millions and millions from private corporate Ireland .

It’s just a fact . Now it’s absolutely no excuse for the shambles that has been the way football is run but is the main reason that “ professional “ football clubs in Ireland haven’t a pot to piss in

It’s a fair point, I wouldn’t be of the opinion personally that the government provides huge support to the GAA. That’s a narrative that’s out there alright. The government get a lot back from the GAA in terms of economy and tax revenue as its by far the biggest sport in the country. I don’t want a tedious GAA vs soccer/ football argument.

Government certainly provide more to GAA than soccer / football for sure.

Leroy42

Did you smash it wrote: »

Albania aren’t the Jones’s. They are the family who need the help of the Vincent the Paul to make ends meet.

So we do it because the poor kid has it?

It doesn't matter how you spin it, you normally do things like building projects because there is need. Not simply to make you feel better in the room.

We don't need another champions league level ground for the once a decade match they might make, when we could use Aviva.

LOI Football is not supported by enough people in this country to justify it.

If the FAI, and the clubs, actually put a plan together. A thought out multi year progress plan to increase support, increase the teams levels, drive player retention etc, then by all means plan a stadium.

But at the moment? No, it isn't remotely justified.

Did you smash it

Leroy42 wrote: »

So we do it because the poor kid has it?

It doesn't matter how you spin it, you normally do things like building projects because there is need. Not simply to make you feel better in the room.

We don't need another champions league level ground for the once a decade match they might make, when we could use Aviva.

Football is not supported by enough people in this country to justify it.

If the FAI, and the clubs, actually put a plan together. A thought out multi year progress plan to increase support, increase the teams levels, drive player retention etc, then by all means plan a stadium.

But at the moment? No, it isn't remotely justified.

A 10k football stadium in Dalymount is absolutely justifiable.

We get 6k.

We are small timers in the shadow of Albania and every other country in Europe in terms of football infrastructure.

Strumms

You don’t get it Leroy, fûcking invest in the product, the facilities and more people will come. More revenues, more expansion and it goes on, you have to start somewhere.

breezy1985

Did you smash it wrote: »

It’s a fair point, I wouldn’t be of the opinion personally that the government provides huge support to the GAA. That’s a narrative that’s out there alright. The government get a lot back from the GAA in terms of economy and tax revenue as its by far the biggest sport in the country. I don’t want a tedious GAA vs soccer/ football argument.

Government certainly provide more to GAA than soccer / football for sure.

Also yes the government probably give more to GAA than to soccer but also give way more to soccer than they do to cycling or tennis. Bigger the sport bigger the funding so soccer cant complain too much about the arrangement

Did you smash it

breezy1985 wrote: »

Also yes the government probably give more to GAA than to soccer but also give way more to soccer than they do to cycling or tennis. Bigger the sport bigger the funding so soccer cant complain too much about the arrangement

Or all sports could complain about the funding they receive.

There is no wow factor in Irish sport infrastructure, no ambition. That’s for GAA or soccer or anything else.

Strumms

This is the air Albania stadium in Tirana, Albania.

Capacity : 22.500

Tenants : KF Tirana / FK Partizani Tirana

Cost : 85 million.

Something lower spec for about 30 million, 11,000 seats is what’s required.

If they can do that in Albania !

breezy1985

Did you smash it wrote: »

A 10k football stadium in Dalymount is absolutely justifiable.

We get 6k.

We are small timers in the shadow of Albania and every other country in Europe in terms of football infrastructure.

Actually Albania seem to be the outlier as they have recently embarked on a building drive and had LOI level capacities up until a few years back. The other nations ranked similar to the LOI dont look much better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%9321_Moldovan_National_Division
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veikkausliiga
Finland is a very interesting comparison to Ireland. Both have roughly 5m population both were occupied until post WW1 and both were agricultural backwaters till for them the 50s and us a little later. Neither class soccer as the big game as the Finns have ice hockey as the biggest sport

Cilldara_2000

Did you smash it wrote: »

Or all sports could complain about the funding they receive.

There is no wow factor in Irish sport infrastructure, no ambition. That’s for GAA or soccer or anything else.

Croke Park, the Aviva, Semple Stadium, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Castlebar, Thomond, various racecourses, etc. Plenty of fine infrastructure which took ambition to build/upgrade.

Literally every other sport in the country can get their act together, put plans in place, raise money themselves and then put the hand out for a few bob from the government. Meanwhile soccer people moan that everything hasn’t been handed to them on a plate and accuse others of lacking ambition. Smh.

breezy1985

Strumms wrote: »

This is the air Albania stadium in Tirana, Albania.

Capacity : 22.500

Tenants : KF Tirana / FK Partizani Tirana

Cost : 85 million.

Something lower spec for about 30 million, 11,000 seats is what’s required.

If they can do that in Albania !

That is the national stadium so how is it in any way relevant to Bohs and their situation. You slyly left Albanian national team out of the list of tenants