Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121457085#Comment_121457085

Sure, the spectre and vocality of them but no proper thorough investigation - at least from ‘official Ireland’

similar, in fact, to Dublin City centre crime and lack of policing

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447940#Comment_121447940

Hilarious. Must be a parody.

We have control over monetary policy do we? lol

The Bundestag has control over our monetary policy, make no mistake. Through the EU they call the shots. They also get to approve our budgets before Irish people even see it - did you know that?

Germany introduced before WW1 the concept of nations that were not nations. It's called "limited sovereignty". States pretending to be sovereign when they were not really sovereign - as in Ukraine (but it was first tried in a fake Kingdom of Poland in 1917). It's a very good idea implemented to perfection in countries like Belgium, the Baltic states and Ireland.

You have a pretence that this country controls it's own sovereignty and destiny. It doesn't.

There is no point in lying to yourself or pretending to yourself anymore.

Our politicians have surrendered our sovereignty (sometimes with the backing of the Irish people based on lies or being economical with the truth) to further their own personal ambitions.

Our country is left a colony. Make no mistake, that is what we are.

Hotblack Desiato

Nonsense from beginning to end.

For starters the Bundestag does not control the ECB.

Disgusting that you would describe modern-day Ireland as a colony, when it actually used to be one and this directly led to the suffering and death of millions of Irish people.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485715#Comment_121485715

Considering you spent the guts of 7 years predicting Ireland's ejection from the Single Market on this very thread, at every single news article that confirmed your bias, perhaps you should take the time to reflect that your opinion on EU matters mightn't be launching from sturdy foundation. Especially the histrionic chatter about the Bundestag controlling our monetary policy.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485968#Comment_121485968

Especially as the main reason we joined the EU in the first place was because the UK did. And for quite a period after, had the UK left we would have left before. It is why Dev felt the need to make a show of neutrality at Hitler's death because he knew we were not independent. We had to take whatever rules the British implemented for themselves or suffer. Now we have a say in those rules and get to discuss them.

And if we don't like it enough we can also leave and just suffer the financial consequences. I would not advocate such a position for obvious reasons but it should be stressed we have the freedom to not enter financial agreements that benefit us or to leave them.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486031#Comment_121486031

epecially right now when the bundestag was told by the verfasungsgericht, it cant even controll its own budget the way it wants, as it does not confirm with the law ....

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486198#Comment_121486198

Problem is "Ireland is controlled by the verfasungsgericht" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485715#Comment_121485715

Through the EU they call the shots.

Obviously it has been abundantly clear long before now, but this is the final nail in the coffin of any idea whatsoever that you have the slightest idea how the EU actually functions. This, of course, is the same bullheaded ignorance that led Brexiteers to think that the solution to the problems they created lay in Berlin and not Brussels or Strasbourg (or even Dublin).

yagan

Oh look, same auld brexity "zee Germans" tropes.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485715#Comment_121485715

Mod: Do not post in this thread again - you have been told numerous times to stop posting obvious false information to further your anti-EU bias

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121485715#Comment_121485715

Oh dear, you have picked the wrong country to try peddling that nonsense, even Farage eventually figured that one out. You see Ireland and Switzerland are unique in Europe in having a sovereign people and it is very hard to convince such citizen that they don't have control when they vote on the strategic decisions for their country, reject international treaties and so on and so fourth.

• So the Bundestag never controlled a currency, the Deutsche Bundesbank on the other hand did
• And the Fiscal Compact compact applies to all Euro Group states, with the same rules being applied to all and approved by the Irish voters
• We'll just assume you are clueless on how the EU is actually governed to save time
• Your lack of knowledge of the German state from Bismarck on wards is obvious

You can pretend of that all this stuff is true if you wish to demonstrate your gullibility in believe such nonsense, but you are trying to sell it in the wrong country.

Nody

Remember that glorious USA trade deal that was going to unlock all those Brexit benefits? Yea; Biden was rude and actually required UK to have some worker right standards which derailed it; but don't fret in 2025 Trump will surely give the surviving Tory government the deal they always wanted (but failed to agree the first time around; this time Trump is much more open for free trade surely)...

Joe Biden has dashed hopes of a post-Brexit transatlantic trade deal with the UK as he looks to bolster US industry as part of his bid for re-election.

Since taking office, the 46th president has made a point of pushing for worker protections in all international trade agreements, but the lack of robust labour standards in an outline for a US-UK proposal that circulated earlier this year raised hackles among Senate Democrats

The first source also described the American negotiators as being “very focused” on “labour standards”, as well as “on environmental issues [and] these very worthy things”.

Taken from the Independent article here.

breezy1985

Imagine the Yanks questioning your labour standards.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512964#Comment_121512964

To be fair, it is brazenly political nonsense. UK labour standards are not good, but being dictated to by the US is a joke. They have no moral authority to be doing so.

L1011

The UK has clothing sweat shops, their labour standards are that poor.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512991#Comment_121512991

Nobody is dictating anything to anyone. If you want to do business with me on favourable terms I can agree to do so, or not.

ArmaniJeanss

I doubt it's out of any concern for poor downtrodden UK workers. More just to protect the competitiveness of equivalent US workers/jobs/industry.

You can accept cheap foreign imports ignoring local working conditions (as the USA and Europe has done for decades) or set terms that protect your own industries but means the product isn't as cheap when it reaches the consumer (previously tariffs have been the main weapon to ensure this, but working conditions is a valid way as well).

Ultimately the stronger partner can set such terms in any negotiation, and the weaker partner is always free to walk away.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513290#Comment_121513290

They are dictating terms of a potential agreement, so I would disagree. Everyone is, of course, free to walk away from it.

It is the reality of negotiation, and I have no sympathy for the UK. I still think its a bit farcical for the US to be insisting on minimum labour standards in an agreement with the UK. I suspect they would ask for them in an agreement with the EU also.

I would reject any framing of this as "the UK's standard are so bad even the US won't do business with them" though.

ancapailldorcha

Seems to me that the Americans would rather the UK reduce what labour standards we have here rather than encourage more unionisation and better conditions. Unless of course they want to make UK products and services less competitive for the American market. I'm delighted that this has been delayed though given the current state of the Tory party. They can't function as a unit, never mind negotiate a deal with the world's most powerful country.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513432#Comment_121513432

The US seeks minimum labour standards in all its trade deals. Trade deals have to be approved by Congress, remember, and domestic support for trade deals is eroded if they are seem simply as mechanisms to make the offshoring of production even easier than it already is.

Leroy42

But surely the UK, by dint of being in the EU for so long, has good labour laws? Holidays, sick pay, redundancy, health and safety etc.

Agreeing to minimum labour law levels shouldn't be any reason to hold up a trade deal.

Lots of other reasons no doubt, but labour laws seems an odd one.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516795#Comment_121516795

If the US trade deal contains a non-regression clause on labour standards, then signing the US deal will mean abandoning the idea of using of Brexit "freedoms" to roll back labour standards, which is a cherished objective of at least some brexiters.

Although very few Brexiters appear to know this, US trade deals are ultimately controlled not by the President but by Congress, and in particular by the House of Representatives. The President (and officials reporting to him) negotiates trade deals only to the extent that Congress authorises him to, and within limits set by Congress, and when he does negotiate a deal it goes back to Congress to decide whether to accept it or not.

Currently trade deals are negotiated under an authority granted in 2015, and this stipulates that the US must seek to include (among other things) a provision to the effect that the parties to the deal cannot diminish their labour standards in order to attract trade or investment.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516636#Comment_121516636

I know, and I'm sure they'd ask for the same in an EU trade deal.

I still think its absurd theatre and ultimately just politicking. Which they're perfectly entitled to do.

roosterman71

British honey companies staring down the barrel of dual labelling now after the EU tweaked it's labelling laws for honey. Up to now the requirements aligned but the EU have updated theirs to try curb the dilution of honey with sugar syrup and passing it off as honey. Up to now you'd have seen on jars that they state "blended form a mix of EU and non EU honey" or something like that. But now the labels will have to show the % and country used to produce the honey.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/19/british-honey-companies-attack-new-eu-laws/

Of course this is half painted as the big bad EU being out to get the UK

“An overzealous EU approach to solve a problem we do not believe to be widespread in the UK and based on an EU study we believe lacks veracity, is unlikely to be in the best interest of British honey companies or consumers,”

Sam Russell

I think UK honey producers should be quite clear that their honey is only made from UK honey, and not blended.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517503#Comment_121517503

But now the labels will have to show the % and country used to produce the honey.

Pedantry potentially, but to be clear they will have to show this only if they want to export to the EU. Which they will and so they will have to comply with rules and regulations they have no control over. Which is what Brexit was always going to end up in.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517679#Comment_121517679

Brussels drew up the new legislation after a European Commission study found honey was being adulterated with cheap sugar syrup.

Almost half of all EU honey imports were deemed likely to be fraudulent, and all ten of the UK samples failed the authenticity tests.

There's a reason they are whining about it...

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517836#Comment_121517836

Well, I will not buy non-EU honey or blended honey that includes non EU honey.

eire4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518072#Comment_121518072

Personally I just bought some Mileeven pure and raw unblended Irish honey:) and its great:)

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519146#Comment_121519146

I was given a jar of D8 honey from Dublin 8, and it looks good. I have yet to try it, but it is a small jar (because the honey bees in Dublin 8 are small) but it will be used over the coming few days.

I am looking forward to it.