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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭rock22


    We have all got it completely wrong apparently. The UK economy is doing much better post Brexit than the EU and Brexit has saved the UK from nasty nationalism "the UK has not witnessed the rise of the nasty nationalism seen across the Channel."


    Who knew Brexit was such as success



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Poor form to just dump a link here with a snappy comment.

    Basically this.

    I always find comparisons by columnists between Brussels and Washington to be a bit disingenuous. Washington is the central government of the United States whereas the European Commission is not a governing body, but a regulatory one. Are these people advocating for a United States of Europe? I doubt it. It makes some sense to compare the two but throwing shade on the EU because the US is doing well is a poor argument.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Correct, and there is no acknowledgment in the amateur mainstream media about this.

    Essentially, these people styling themselves as “Irish nationalists” and British nationalists.

    They are six degrees away from the British army and loyalist terrorists, but as it does not involve Sinn Féin, RTÉ, IT, etc as usual, ignore it - instead they focus on “Irish were immigrants once sh1te” rather than call them out.


    A Sinn Féin victory would be interesting if only to see how they deal with Rowan Croft et al, a Brit soldier claiming he and his squaddies knows what best for Ireland



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,293 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Golgafrinchan 'B' Ark


    I didn't realise going to private schools and/or elite universities was in itself proof of qualification for office!

    But the privately educated are massively over-represented in Irish politics, and even more so in the UK's.

    Here's what you could have won.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The only real qualification you need in the UK is the ability to impress the relevant committee of your local party.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭joeysoap




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,652 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's essentially a well paid version of the clowns who used to come on here every few months waving an article about a single piece of investment and proclaiming how wrong we all were.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,293 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Golgafrinchan 'B' Ark



    Really?

    Yesterday:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/12/04/spicebag-welcome-to-the-new-ireland-warts-anger-and-all-the-choices-we-make-now-will-determine-our-future/

    Ireland has also become a pet project for the British far right. Ireland has been graced with the presence of Tommy Robinson, celebrity hate-monger and founder of the English Defence League.

    While many on the nationalist right are appalled by generally unionist right-wing “Brits“ sticking their noses in, the relationship does connect the Irish right to a sophisticated and continent-spanning network of networks, and all the tactics and support that brings with it.

    Saturday:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/12/02/building-for-a-long-time-how-the-global-far-right-jumped-on-dublins-anti-immigration-riots/

    Last week’s events sent these discussions into overdrive and not just in the UK, where prominent far-right figures such as former British National Party president Nick Griffin and anti-Muslim provocateur Tommy Robinson have been regularly discussing the violence.

    Last September:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/09/21/who-are-the-oireachtas-protesters-and-what-were-they-protesting-against/

    Some of those in attendance are veteran activists in the anti-immigration and conspiracy theory sphere. Rowan Croft, an ex-British soldier, who came to prominence spreading the Q Anon conspiracy theory through YouTube and attempting to tie it to Irish matters, was there after a long absence from the far-right scene.


    Here's what you could have won.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    He's not wrong to say that it's not a disaster but that's a terribly low bar to set for pretty much anything. A well-paid columnist who arguably doesn't work all that hard is probably not well placed to say in any case.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,598 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh



    True, but due to the fact they are constantly in the headlines and coupled with the absurdity of the whole thing, I still think it is quite minimal coverage.

    Where is the prime time special, where is the Garda surveillance - they are subversives


    Poppy seller/Royal British legionnaire Kenneth Geary of Santry - another combat wearing Walter Mitty





  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I never said it was. I just said you would expect the make up of a legislature to be weighted more towards those with a 3rd level degree than the general population.

    Obviously the UK (and apparently Ireland, I really don't know the figures) are extremely weighted towards certain schools and certain universities. This is not a good thing. I just think it needs to be put in context and a) not have people lying about 70% of MPs being Oxbridge educated and b) acknowledge that no matter what it will never reflect the general make up of the population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,652 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    3rd level education isn't the issue when discussing Westminster. Anyone can go to university.

    The problem is how many of the cabinet and parliament went to the likes of Eton. A child these days actually has more ability to choose their gender than choose to go to one of these king maker secondary schools.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭flatty


    When I ponder this, I always think how quickly Argentina for instance has moved in and out of default. If anything is potentially profitable, people have conveniently short memories.

    I would be surprised if there is any significant move on the part of the UK in the next 20 years though. That is only four parliamentary terms.

    Most likely would be a move towards a rubber stamp open visa (maybe).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I never argued differently.

    Someone said 70% of MPs went to Oxbridge which is a mistake/lie.

    It is up for debate what the number should be, but suggesting it should reflect the general population level is also misguided.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The thing I struggle with is that there are things that a UK government could do to boost growth here. The obvious one would be to link up Oxford, Cambridge, & London via high-speed rail and build more garden cities. Of course, the EU never stood in the way of this but now that we're out, it's a bit of a surprise that so much political airtime has been devoted to the restoration of imperial units and other trivial things instead of real wins that could be achieved with planning reform and investment. We just had a decade of low interest rates where we could have used borrowing at close to zero cost to properly invest in growth. Instead, we got Liz Truss looking manic while saying things like "pork markets" and "anti-growth coalition". Biotech, where my experience is, struggles to hire because of the absurd cost of living, even in places like Babraham which is very rural and has a small biotech cluster. It's not well connected and this could be remedied with enough determination from a sensible government.

    Again, EU membership was never an impediment to a sensible industrial or infrastructural policy.

    The other thing is that I struggle to identify a group more deserving of contempt than left wing Brexiters. I'm not referring to traditional Labour voters but those on the economic left who voted for what was essentially a Conservative disaster capitalist project. Brexit was never going to be based around workers, jobs, or unions but by the whims of press barons, oligarchs and Conservative party donors. This was fairly obvious at the time. David Cameron implemented devastating cuts so the idea that voting for Brexit would improve on that was patently ridiculous.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They are building an (albeit slow) rail line from Oxford to Cambridge. Which will be wonderful as it is currently quicker to go on train via London, though hideously more expensive. It's an hour from Oxford to Paddington and 45 min Cambridge to King's Cross. Not sure high speed rail would add much there.

    The real problem in both Oxford and Cambridge are their green belts that completely constrain any development.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭rock22


    @ancapailldorcha "Poor form to just dump a link here with a snappy comment."

    I don't know what you problem is with my post. This isn't the first time I have gotten a similar comment from you. I noticed you had no problem discussing the post and its' content with others.

    Don't worry , I won't be posting here again. I know not to cross the moderators.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,652 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He literally tells you what his problem is with your post 🤣



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 37,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod Note: You failed to add anything worthwhile to your post. By the time I saw it, it had been responded to so I left it. However, I would have otherwise removed it as it did not meet the standards.

    Secondly, as you claim to know how moderation works, then you will also be aware that the comment from ACD was clearly not in a mod capacity but was a normal observation so here was no need for a snide remark.

    ---end----



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    “MPs are not chosen by 'the people' - they are chosen by their local constituency parties: thirty-five men in grubby raincoats or thirty-five women in silly hats.” - Sir Humphrey

    And this can be bypassed if they've been parachuted into a safe sea.


    On the radio here I've heard ads advising business about how to get help for when the UK implement more of the rules next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,718 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Even parachuted-in candidates have to get through the local constituency party.

    It works like this:

    • To seek nomination for the Tory party in any seat you must first be pre-approved by Conservative Central Office. They look at your "skills and attributes", and supposedly also do due diligence checks, although as we know these are not infallible.
    • You can then present yourself to one (or more) local parties to seek nomination.
    • A local party committee draws up a longlist of (up to 8) potential candidates from among those seeking nomination. But they travel to national headquarters do do this, and they do it with the, um, support of national party officials. It's at this point that the national party can use its influence to ensure that a favoured candidate gets onto the longlist for a safe seat. They also ensure that only one favoured candidates is on the longlist for each safe seat - they don't want favoured candidates knocking each other out.
    • The longlisted candidates are then interviewed by the local party executive, who narrow it down to a shortlist, usually of 2 or 3. There's no formal mechanism by which the national party can intervene to ensure the favoured candidate is on the shortlist, but no doubt there are informal channels through which persuasion can be exerted, if necessary.
    • The local party then holds a special general meeting, at which any party member can attend and vote. The meeting chooses one of the shortlisted individuals to be the candidate.

    This full process only operates in a constituency that doesn't have sitting Tory MP or in which the sitting Tory MP is standing down. If there's a sitting Tory MP who wants to stand again, the local party executive can simply readopt them as the candidate without any long- or shortlisting of alternative candidates, and it is rare for this not to happen.

    The Labour process is slightly different. There is no pre-approval of potential candidates; any party member of more than 12 months standing, and who is a member of a trade union, can seek a nomination. But the longlist for each constituency is not drawn up by the local party, but by the national party, so they can always put a favoured candidate on the longlist for a safe seat. The longlist is narrowed down to a shortlist by a local party committee, and a hustings is held at which rank-and-file members of the local party vote to choose a candidate.

    In both cases, the national party can ensure you're on the longlist, and can exert some indirect influence to try to ensure that you make it to the shortlist. But you still have to face the local party members, who will have the choice of at least one other nominee.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,851 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Hardly a surprise. Imperial units and blue passports are easy ways to shout independence when you are insecure about it.


    Same reason Dev gave condolences over Hitler dying, it is to make a show of independence when you know, for economic reasons, you are not truly independent. Ireland largely had to follow UK rules in the 1940s (and later for a bit) due to economic reasons and now the UK needs to follow EU rules for economic reasons and so look for symbols to try and claim independence with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,293 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Golgafrinchan 'B' Ark


    Nearly smashed my phone against a wall a few years ago listening to Eamonn McCann on a podcast talking absolute waffle about "Lexit".

    "Useful idiot" does not even begin to describe anyone thick enough to fall for that whopper.

    Did it ever occur to any of them to ponder why the UK was always trying to opt out of EU social legislation and worker protection?

    Here's what you could have won.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭yagan


    Visiting an old Canarian haunt Ive returned to every few years and it's really noticeable how many union jack type businesses have shut up.

    Interestingly where there were no curry houses before now there's several.

    One of complaints the curry house owners had before brexit was about how hard it had become to hire curry house chefs, so I wonder if some have pivoted away from Britain.



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