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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭ dublin49


    when you listen to Frost and the DUP they have a point,Brexit has been shown to have absolutely no economic upside so the only gain they can focus on is regaining their sovereignty.What the protocol signals is that NI can have a vastly inferior version of EU membership if they accept some EU jurisdiction,not a good look for the sponsors of the brexit fiasco,They would prefer to have NI in the same mess as England ,Scotland & Wales and take their chances with a border in Ireland,Not my view but understandable from their POV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Strazdas


    They were way too close to the extreme Brexiteers and not to the 'moderates' in the Conservative party. There are photos of Paisley Jr and Wilson with the likes of Farage, Banks, Kate Hoey etc during this period - they hitched themselves in with the ERG crowd and associates. Even at the moment, Arlene Foster is a guest presenter on GB News and writing anti-EU articles for the Daily Express.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    A fair few on here were salivating over the idea that Brexit would bring about Irexit which is why they are on here now desperately crying for the end of the NIP and telling us the HGV problem is worldwide



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 28,913 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha


    Previous Unionist politicians knew and understood their place in Westminster, IE that both they and Northern Ireland were at best, distractions and at worst, nuisances to London. Carson and Craig knew this full well. It's a sign of how far political standards have fallen IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    Back in the days of Carson and Craig the last thing they wanted was Westminster paying any attention to the barely democratic gerrymandered state that the UUP ruled.

    The current crop would have agreed to Brexit no matter the cost to look like good Englanders



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,868 ✭✭✭ fly_agaric


    Perhaps an independent regulatory entity to oversee any disputes could be the answer.

    I think that may prove impossible for the EU to accept in ways that weakening/changing Customs processes protecting the Single market for the sake of NI/Ireland are not.

    It is at base (to over use the word) a "sovereignty" thing. These are a subset of EU rules and laws still applying in NI despite Brexit and being administered by UK in order to let the NI-Irish trade & movement of people etc. around the NI-EU border remain "as-is" without normal customs infrastructure and checks ever impinging on them. I don't think the EU will allow either the UK or some 3rd party to make final judgements on these parts of its own rule book. You'd have the rules potentially impacting all 27 member states (given the goods can circulate in Ireland and then the rest of the EU) being decided upon by some external body for sake of NI. It is just not going to happen as far as I can see (?) so something has to give.

    Yes, it is the UK here compromising on the totality/completeness of Brexit by allowing these "EU/foreigner rules" to continue existing on a bit of its own territory which Frost now appears to find intolerable but as we all know, NI has been and is a somewhat contested space and politically unstable (hence idea of some special arrangement instead of just actualising/crystallising practical effects of a new external EU-UK border where they are "supposed" to be).

    IMO, If the UK govt. does push this point about eliminating EU oversight all the way to the end (which I think will lead to a serious breakdown of EU-UK relations) they are setting down a marker that the special cases for NI are irrelevant in face of Brexit and reestablishing their geopolitical interests in NI again as an integral part of the UK Union where no foreign influences (like NI protocol) can be permitted to linger. The Unionists will be delighted with that anyway (!) even if it potentially craters the NI economy unless they can get a big bung of money from London to help out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭ fash


    What I find interesting is that I think there is a reasonable chance (maybe 40%?) that the UK will go trade war here (and eventually they will lose any trade war) yet sterling doesn't seem to price any of this in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,868 ✭✭✭ fly_agaric


    I don't know, don't follow what the currencies are doing but maybe it is hard for people to accept things are getting that bad (?) and surely something must come along to reestablish sanity/normality or else that all of this is just tactics on the UK part and it will be resolved.

    I think the UK can still lose a trade dispute with the EU (in sense of its economy being badly damaged, and criticism for the situation being heaped on them by US) while not backing down here. I am not in the UK but I get impression the govt. may be able to get enough people to rally round the flag against the external enemies "bullying the UK" and accept hardships if the worst comes to the worst.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,838 ✭✭✭ correct horse battery staple


    His father is from Northern Ireland yet no mention what happens to NI, Brexiteers really didn’t think much of that corner of UK



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭ fash


    Money markets don't buy in to government spin. If I understand correctly it suggests the markets don't believe there will be a trade deal (note similarly, the markets believed there would be a TCA deal - sterling barely moved when the discussions went from the "will they, won't they & looks like it will be WTO" to "deal" (although it rose in subsequent months from around 1.12 to 1.17/1.18.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    Kate Hoey is another one from NI who seemed to have forgotten all about the border. There was a couple of Irish in UKIP too and IIRC the head press officer was from ROI



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    Ya your right actually. I should have said they didn't talk about it rather than forgot



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    His pamphlet turned out to be the best political satire piece in the modern history written unintendedly 😎

    Comedy gold. Should be put into the Guinness Book of World Records.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Strazdas


    No insults

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 86,954 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    Norway accepts the free movement of goods, capital, services and people within the EEA. Schengen. Accepts many EU laws and standards over which it has no veto. Is subject to European courts. Doesn't get a rebate so pays the same per capita as the UK did. Has to accept the EU doing it's global trade deals except for food and drink.

    Red lines all over the place. Of course Farage was lying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Strazdas


    A cynic might argue that the real Farage / Vote Leave 'plan' was to wreck the relationship with Europe and kick the foreigners out. That was the sum total of Brexit (apart from enriching the Brexit toffs and millionaires as a bonus).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    The foreigners were only innocent victims in the crossfire. It was really about getting away from the pro worker and pro health EU regulations that were holding rich business people back from Britain becoming the crap food dodgy medicine sht hole that is the USA



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,868 ✭✭✭ fly_agaric


    I think you meant they (the currency markets) don't really believe there will be an EU-UK trade dispute just as they didn't believe the UK would finally exit with no trade agreement with the EU? (and were correct of course).

    Maybe neither side wants this, but it is very easy to misjudge when following a policy of deliberately being provocative/antagonistic + playing "hardball" (if that is what the UK is doing here as a tactic).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Strazdas


    Fintan O'Toole suggests in that article today that the British public themselves may well be the real targets of the Brexiteers - the ones who get swindled or cheated out of all they own, even the people who voted to Leave.

    Would be far from the first time a government was elected which hated its own electorate and even the people who voted for it and just wanted to be in power for the sake of it or to enrich themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985


    The stories coming out about Sunak falling out of favour for questioning Johnsons massive cash spend in the next budget would certainly point to a PM who doesn't give a FK about anything long term past his own reign.

    Kinda reminds me of Ahern vs McReevy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭ Strazdas


    Yes, and talk in the same articles about Sunak regarding No.10 as being "economically illiterate".



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