Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918098#Comment_117918098

Apparently, even Daily Telegraph readers said they had no desire to return to Imperial, so wonders just who or what this pathetic PR stunt was aimed at.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919013#Comment_117919013

It's a distraction from the damage being done to the British economy

VinLieger

Another sign of the cold, hungry, bubble-less winter the UK has in store for itself

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-20/u-k-soft-drink-makers-have-just-days-of-carbon-dioxide-left

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918695#Comment_117918695

It would have to be Horsepower per inch of standard candle burn.

Actually it's BTUs a unit the Americans love wiki lists 6 different values depending on which BTU you use. It's roughly the energy in a matchstick.

Here carpets and flooring are still priced and advertised in square yards to make it look a little cheaper than square meters which is also displayed as required.

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919566#Comment_117919566

I've been reading about that over the last couple of days. Fizzy drinks seems to be the least of the problems when it comes to a C02 shortage. Poultry and Pork producers running out is a major issue.

The British Government has just reached agreement with CF Industries to restart carbon dioxide production at its UK sites according to The Guardian Live but they don't know when they production will restart to help ease pressures on the UK food chain.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117919928#Comment_117919928

Yeah i remember a few years ago when there was a C02 shortage and even when the shortage ended it was over a month before everything was back up and running at a full pace and i dont think that even involved restarting C02 production it was simply importing it so add several weeks on again.

Enzokk

Gotta love the DUP just always being on the wrong side of the argument. It is astonishing they still have any support left. They hate the NIP, but its what it helping NI possibly avoid the worst of the shortages the UK will experience due to Brexit,

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ni-coca-cola-production-saved-from-uk-co2-crisis-by-protocol-40873699.html

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1440345845862330376

salonfire

Why are the UK prevented from importing CO2 by Brexit?

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922220#Comment_117922220

I think it's more of a capacity in factories + no drivers + no one thinking ahead type of problem more than anything else.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922220#Comment_117922220

CO2 production in the UK is a by-product of nitrogen fertilizer production. Fertilizer is not perishable and can be stockpiled, and in fact it is stockpiled, because demand is of course seasonal.

Right. Nitrogen fertilizer production is an extremely energy-intensive process, energy prices have spiked, and energy supplies are disrupted. It makes sense in this situation to scale back production or temporarily suspend it, and meet demand for fertilizer by running down stockpiles. You can ramp up production again when the energy market is kinder to you.

But, though they stockpile fertilizer, they don't stockpile CO2, which would be a more expensive thing to do - needs to be stored in pressurised containers which have to be monitored. So, when they reduce production and meet fertilizer demand out of stockpiles, they can't meet CO2 demand.

There are no import restrictions that would prevent them from importing CO2 from the EU. But ports are congested, trucking capacity is already overloaded, EU CO2 production is also constrained (though not as much as the UK, because EU energy prices haven't spiked anything like as much) and so switching to imports isn't straightforward.

Nody

Well the deal is now to run the factory for 3 weeks with the cost going into tens of millions for the pleasure and business to expect a five fold increase in CO2 cost (200 to 1000 per ton though probably higher in reality as those are government estimates). Add yet another driver for higher permanent food costs to the issues already going on and I think the Tories are going to have to strike a very controversial trade deal or feel the pain at the election booth (significant food cost increases post Brexit when things should be getting better is a hard pill to swallow even for Brexiteers).

And I think that's the crux of this and many other problems; it's not that a source is not available but that they don't want to pay the new price as their mind are locked into what it used to cost (and hence a five fold increase is not acceptable and they refuse to buy CO2 from the company etc.).

Seth Brundle

Just in terms of the energy prices, they are up across the EU but because the UK left the EU's Internal Energy Market, their prices are much higher...

roosterman71

Senator Brendan Boyle did a big poo poo on the UKs hopes of a quick trade deal. To summarise, UK market is tiny and it's not a priority

https://twitter.com/RepBrendanBoyle/status/1440527117482020869?s=20

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922659#Comment_117922659

Why are we never included in that graph. I've seen it plenty over the past week and we are snipped out of it

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922700#Comment_117922700

It is taken from LCP Enact, an energy analysis company https://thecurrent.lcp.uk.com/europe

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922678#Comment_117922678

There are reports from Bloomberg that the UK recognises that it's not getting a US trade deal of its own any time soon, and is "exploring joining the USMCA" (trade deal between the US, Mexico and Canada.

If true, this is richly ironic. The USMCA deal is so much tailored to the particular concerns and circumstances of the US, Mexico and Canada that its designers took it for granted that no other country would ever want to join; the treaties governing it contain no provision at all for other states to accede. (That's not so say that they couldn't amend the treaties to allow the UK to join, of course.) But this story does suggest that a country which left the EU because it didn't like "rule taking" when it was involved in making the rules is now contemplating becoming a rule-taker for rules that it had no say in making, and which were devised by countries on a different continent exclusively for their own advantage.

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922700#Comment_117922700

According to this link,Ireland's energy supply is closely linked to GB.

http://ireland2050.ie/questions/where-does-irelands-gas-come-from-and-what-determines-its-price/

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922820#Comment_117922820

That's because there is, as yet, no electricity interconnector between Ireland and the mainland. That was less of a problem when the UK - with which we do have interconnectors - was in the EU, and therefore in the EU's electricity market, but with Brexit it becomes more of a problem, for reasons which in the present circumstances are obvious.

For that reason a long-mooted project to construct a Celtic Sea Interconnector between Ireland and France was greenlit after the Brexit referendum in 2016. Construction is scheduled to begin in 2022, and the interconnector should be energised and operational by 2026. Until then we may be in for a rough ride, energy-price-wise.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922678#Comment_117922678

Biden was similarly non-committal following the meetings with Johnson yesterday.

He also took the time to remind him of the importance of the GFA and that Brexit should not in any way put that at risk.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922912#Comment_117922912

and when POTUS was saying this, Johnson interrupted him. I think his mumbling was a form of agreement...

https://twitter.com/EmmandJDeSouza/status/1440449596623228932

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922800#Comment_117922800

That was mentioned on the Newsnight program. Hannan said that he'd spoken with people in the US and it was looking positive. Boyle replied saying he's on the committee that votes for it and he'd never heard of it. Hannan doubled down. It was kind of funny.

It's at about 10mins 30secs here.

(3) Will there ever be a post-Brexit US-UK trade deal? - BBC Newsnight - YouTube

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117923402#Comment_117923402

Their ability to simply ignore reality and explain away all of the news(aka spout rambling nonsense) that is contrary to their narrative is pretty impressive all the same.

There was another Government minister quoted as saying that "Biden just didn't understand the NI Protocols fully when he said what he said" , he then made some weird comment about Potatoes by way of explanation of NI to GB trade barriers.

They're like Anti-Vaxxers at this stage - "Look , I know you're a Professor of Immunology but you just don't understand the facts " says Johnny the plumber

Mr.Nice Guy

That was the British Environment Secretary, George Eustice. His comments about who he thinks Biden is listening to were interesting:

https://twitter.com/Alan_McGuinness/status/1440571991392542726

This is seemingly an acknowledgement that they don't carry the same level of influence as the EU. Also can't help but notice the usual habit of treating us as if we are not members of the EU.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924263#Comment_117924263

I wouldn't read it like that at all. My reading is that Eustice is saying that the US currently do not understand as all they know are the headlines and what the EU tell them, which of course (from the UK POV) is completely untrue and missing the entire point of the NIP.

By extension, if only people would listen to the UK then everything would be alright. It is yet another way of blaming others. The failure to get any trade deal with the US is not because the UK has messed up, it's because people simply won't listen and accept that the UK is right.

And that sums up the entire attitude since the vote. Brexit isn't a disaster because it was always going to be, it is only a disaster because others (mainly the EU) are being mean and trying to punish the UK etc.

Lemming

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117923402#Comment_117923402

Good god that was a car crash for Hannah and I'm not so much "Not sure what he was thinking" as perhaps that he didn't think at all when he tried to go on the offensive as a form of defense with the display of crocodile-tears/butt-hurt feels about being lectured to about the need to have a vested interest in NI. B*llocks. Most Tories couldn't tell you where Northern Ireland was on a map never mind having a vested interest in keeping the peace, and on top of that making thinly veiled innuendo swipes at someone who a) understands the issues a great deal better than he ever will and b) has a direct input into any desired trade deals is not the best strategic move to make.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117923513#Comment_117923513

Back during the referendum debates framing the experts as some sort of bias elite or even traitors was pretty common. It even went as far as people just wanting Brexit to spitefully give the experts "a bloody nose"

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924263#Comment_117924263

I also think Eustice using potatoes as a trade example also shows what he thinks of us as well.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922678#Comment_117922678

It does illustrate how utterly deluded the Brexit Govt and Brexit press are in their 'world view'. It's almost painful to watch.....a bunch of 'billy no mates' thinking with their newfound sovereignty and freedom that they are a global power and big hitter on the world stage.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924705#Comment_117924705

And (surprise surprise) he's also wrong. The US does have restrict plenty of fruit and veg between some states.

https://twitter.com/sgourl/status/1440575977348734980?s=19

The potato is actually allowed from all states but plenty of other fruit and veg aren't.

20silkcut

It’s depressing to see the U.K. so out of touch with US politics that they are floundering like this. Maybe it was just the times I grew up in where the British , US and Irish governments were all singing off the same hymn sheet. Perhaps in the context of history that period from the mid 80’s to 2016 was the outlier .

If this was 1990’s there would be no question of creating any conditions which might give rise to a border anywhere near Northern Ireland whether on the island or in the sea. Accepting a few Eu regulations is a small price to pay .

I have zero sympathy and zero understanding for brexiteer grievances with EU regulations. Absolute zero. And most of the western world I’m sure is the same. It’s a selfish , insular, mean spirited destructive ‘cause’.