Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Itssoeasy

spacecoyote wrote: »

Why, did they dump Cheney?

Yep.

Itssoeasy

Also, in trump world I see that federal investigators are trying to get an ex girlfriend of congressman Matt Gaetz to cooperate with them and also this Saturday his friend Joel Greenberg will have to decide whether to strike a plea deal with the Feds.

amandstu

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Also, in trump world I see that federal investigators are trying to get an ex girlfriend of congressman Matt Gaetz to cooperate with them and also this Saturday his friend Joel Greenberg will have to decide whether to strike a plea deal with the Feds.

A girlfriend or a sex worker?

Overheal

amandstu wrote: »

A girlfriend or a sex worker?

CNN reports that federal investigators are seeking the cooperation of a former Capitol Hill intern who also once dated the Republican lawmaker, according to sources familiar with the matter. (That, of course, is on top of the formal cooperation they could secure from Greenberg, CNN notes. Greenberg is negotiating a plea deal over 33 charges, including sex trafficking of a minor, bribery, stalking, and defrauding the Paycheck Protection Program, and is facing a deadline this week to cut the plea deal with prosecutors.) Investigators are reportedly interested in the assistance of the former girlfriend, who was reportedly on a 2018 Bahamas trip with Gaetz that has come under scrutiny for potentially violating the Mann Act, which makes it a felony to transport people across state lines to engage in prostitution. The ex-girlfriend is believed to “have knowledge of drug use and arrangements with women,” sources told CNN.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/05/matt-gaetz-intern-girlfriend

Itssoeasy

amandstu wrote: »

A girlfriend or a sex worker?

The former.

Rjd2

Cody montana wrote: »

Rip gop.

You don't seriously think Liz Cheney been gone matters to anyone outside the internet bubble?

The only people who are upset are people who were never going to vote for the GOP anyhow.


Their is a lucrative market for horrific GOP people going on CNN and MSNBC and chatting non stop about Trump "and the soul of the GOP and I suspect that was what she had her eye on last few months.

Cody montana

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

R.I.P? More like good riddance, America would be a much better place without them.

Good luck trying to get moderates and independents on their side.

PropJoe10

This vote against Cheney is a remarkable note in the history of the GOP. This is a party that claims to stand for law, order and the constitution - yet, they are continuing to back a man that triggered an armed insurrection against the Capitol building in an attempt to overthrow a fair election.

If they are voted back into control of either the House, Senate or White House in the next 5 years, then it marks the end of law and order in the US. And if they pick Trump as their candidate again in 2024 and he wins, that's the end of the US as a functioning country. Expect to see states breaking away from the union in that situation.

Tell me how

PropJoe10 wrote: »

This vote against Cheney is a remarkable note in the history of the GOP. This is a party that claims to stand for law, order and the constitution - yet, they are continuing to back a man that triggered an armed insurrection against the Capitol building in an attempt to overthrow a fair election.

If they are voted back into control of either the House, Senate or White House in the next 5 years, then it marks the end of law and order in the US. And if they pick Trump as their candidate again in 2024 and he wins, that's the end of the US as a functioning country. Expect to see states breaking away from the union in that situation.

Supported Trump undermining the electoral process laid out in the Constitution.
Blamed him for the insurrection, but voted not to impeach him.

Law and Order is a chant they use, not a belief they live by (unless you are talking about applying it to black people caught with a spliff or something).

Manic Moran

Rjd2 wrote: »

You don't seriously think Liz Cheney been gone matters to anyone outside the internet bubble?

The only people who are upset are people who were never going to vote for the GOP anyhow.

Not sure I agree with that. As Romney observed, removing Cheney isn't going to garner the GOP a single vote they weren't going to get with her in. All it will do is piss off a bunch of Republican voters and entrench the opposition. The GOP no longer is in a position where it has to just stop losing votes. It needs to start attracting them, and this ousting does not do that.

StringerBell

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not sure I agree with that. As Romney observed, removing Cheney isn't going to garner the GOP a single vote they weren't going to get with her in. All it will do is piss off a bunch of Republican voters and entrench the opposition. The GOP no longer is in a position where it has to just stop losing votes. It needs to start attracting them, and this ousting does not do that.

There is theory that Cheney will look to be at the forefront of a new Conservative party with the other never Trumpers or those who have changed from R to I over the last number of years and the likes of the Lincoln project.

A little pie in the sky if you ask me but not beyond the realms, and they do love a bit of pageantry.

What I would say, very clearly is this is no good for your country at all, the US does need a strong conservative party to represent those views, not what the GOP has descended into obviously.

Tell me how

StringerBell wrote: »

There is theory that Cheney will look to be at the forefront of a new Conservative party with the other never Trumpers or those who have changed from R to I over the last number of years and the likes of the Lincoln project.

A little pie in the sky if you ask me but not beyond the realms, and they do love a bit of pageantry.

They really have their work cut out given the focus of the GOP party at the state level seems to mostly be aligned with Trump.

StringerBell wrote: »

What I would say, very clearly is this is no good for your country at all, the US does need a strong conservative party to represent those views, not what the GOP has descended into obviously.

It could be argued that it might be the first step towards a better place for the US (I'm most definitely not saying that this is the case at this point) in that were a reasonable 3rd party to emerge, it would be better in the long run than having the intensely polarised situation that exists now.

An absolutely monumental task however, to build something on a national level that could carry any real weight which I think would require significant presence across the country to avoid being just a reactionary short term distraction, which as you say would be a bad thing.

Rjd2

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not sure I agree with that. As Romney observed, removing Cheney isn't going to garner the GOP a single vote they weren't going to get with her in. All it will do is piss off a bunch of Republican voters and entrench the opposition. The GOP no longer is in a position where it has to just stop losing votes. It needs to start attracting them, and this ousting does not do that.

The Paleocon base of the party loath her and her father so from a purely political POV tbf its not suicidal. Those in charge know that forever war is not popular with voters in 2021 so you could argue that its not the worst sacrifice to them.

I think when 2022 comes around it won't matter much outside the internet bubble.

StringerBell wrote: »

There is theory that Cheney will look to be at the forefront of a new Conservative party with the other never Trumpers or those who have changed from R to I over the last number of years and the likes of the Lincoln project.

A little pie in the sky if you ask me but not beyond the realms, and they do love a bit of pageantry.

What I would say, very clearly is this is no good for your country at all, the US does need a strong conservative party to represent those views, not what the GOP has descended into obviously.

What wonderful new ideas would this "conservative " party have?

Have you listened to these people when not talking about Trump?

Its just Zombie Reganism delivered in a much more articulate manner.

Drones and tax cuts for all.

Infini

PropJoe10 wrote: »

If they are voted back into control of either the House, Senate or White House in the next 5 years, then it marks the end of law and order in the US. And if they pick Trump as their candidate again in 2024 and he wins, that's the end of the US as a functioning country. Expect to see states breaking away from the union in that situation.

Honestly running Trump again in 2024 is a double edged sword for them, on the one hand he motivates the idiot base to come out BUT he also would movitate the Dem base to come out against them.

Regardless tho the Republican Party is dead, its the Trump Party in all but name, an eviserated corpse being worn in a similar way to how the Conservatives in the UK are for all intents and purposes Ukippers. They've abandoned any pretense of being a proper democratic party and will engage in Gerrymandering, Voter Supression and entertain delusional conspiracies and even insurrection to try and "own the libs" They're full of Hypocricy and I hope that they're frozen out for a long time and not allowed near power because the next time there might not be another chance to undo the damage

Brian?

StringerBell wrote: »

There is theory that Cheney will look to be at the forefront of a new Conservative party with the other never Trumpers or those who have changed from R to I over the last number of years and the likes of the Lincoln project.

A little pie in the sky if you ask me but not beyond the realms, and they do love a bit of pageantry.

What I would say, very clearly is this is no good for your country at all, the US does need a strong conservative party to represent those views, not what the GOP has descended into obviously.

Here’s a wild prediction: Harris-Cheney 2024

Tell me how

Brian? wrote: »

Here’s a wild prediction: Harris-Cheney 2024

Huh? Competing? Or on a ticket?

No chance either way.

Brian?

Tell me how wrote: »

Huh? Competing? Or on a ticket?

No chance either way.

On the same ticket.

salmocab

Brian? wrote: »

On the same ticket.

Cheney is a hardline conservative, apart from saying the election was not stolen she is as conservative as the people who removed her.

Brian?

salmocab wrote: »

Cheney is a hardline conservative, apart from saying the election was not stolen she is as conservative as the people who removed her.

She's a traditional conservative. She's not an evangelical or a populist. Which these days put her closer to Harris than the GOP.

Tell me how

Brian? wrote: »

She's a traditional conservative. She's not an evangelical or a populist. Which these days put her closer to Harris than the GOP.

But still a million miles from a Dem ticket.

How do you think Democrats who aspire to one of the Presidential positions would feel if they saw someone such as Cheney be welcomed in to the party and put in such a position.

Horrendous thought.

marno21

Brian? wrote: »

Here’s a wild prediction: Harris-Cheney 2024

Pure off the wall stuff.

Cheney is more conservative than most of the people who are overthrowing her. She has a better rating with the ACU than her replacement Elise Stefanik.

Cheney and Harris could not be further apart on policy. Their only common ground is in relation to losing candidates of presidential elections mounting insurrections against the US.

I really hope the Dems learn the lessons of 2020 and have someone better than Kamala Harris in mind for the 2024 election also.

Leroy42

marno21 wrote: »

Pure off the wall stuff.

Cheney is more conservative than most of the people who are overthrowing her. She has a better rating with the ACU than her replacement Elise Stefanik.

Cheney and Harris could not be further apart on policy. Their only common ground is in relation to losing candidates of presidential elections mounting insurrections against the US.

I really hope the Dems learn the lessons of 2020 and have someone better than Kamala Harris in mind for the 2024 election also.

What is wrong with Harris?

My take form the 2020 election was that you need a competent person, that sticks to a message and comes across as sincere and likeable.

I don't know enough about Harris to make a judgement on where she sits on those. What they also need to learn, and they did in 2020, was not to underestimate the other side, which HC very much did in 2016 (and tbh in 2008 with Obama).

Quin_Dub

marno21 wrote: »

Pure off the wall stuff.

Cheney is more conservative than most of the people who are overthrowing her. She has a better rating with the ACU than her replacement Elise Stefanik.

Cheney and Harris could not be further apart on policy. Their only common ground is in relation to losing candidates of presidential elections mounting insurrections against the US.

I really hope the Dems learn the lessons of 2020 and have someone better than Kamala Harris in mind for the 2024 election also.

Agreed on Cheney

Here's the thing though.

If trump is still available , he will be the 2024 GOP Candidate and he will pick whoever the hell he likes as VP.

He won't accept an "establishment pick" like Pence a second time around so you literally could have any kind of nutter as his running mate.

Although I suspect that Stefanik would fancy her chances snaking that gig - She's clearly willing to say/do pretty much anything to get ahead.

On that basis , there really isn't all that much wrong with a Biden/Harris ticket again.

Tell me how

marno21 wrote: »

Pure off the wall stuff.

Cheney is more conservative than most of the people who are overthrowing her. She has a better rating with the ACU than her replacement Elise Stefanik.

Cheney and Harris could not be further apart on policy. Their only common ground is in relation to losing candidates of presidential elections mounting insurrections against the US.

I really hope the Dems learn the lessons of 2020 and have someone better than Kamala Harris in mind for the 2024 election also.

You mean the election they won?

What did you see during the 2020 campaign that would have you think they should regret their choice?

Tell me how

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Agreed on Cheney

Here's the thing though.

If trump is still available , he will be the 2024 GOP Candidate and he will pick whoever the hell he likes as VP.

He won't accept an "establishment pick" like Pence a second time around so you literally could have any kind of nutter as his running mate.

Although I suspect that Stefanik would fancy her chances snaking that gig - She's clearly willing to say/do pretty much anything to get ahead.

On that basis , there really isn't all that much wrong with a Biden/Harris ticket again.

I'd bet on DeSantis at this point but I wouldn't put it past him to try to get Ivanka in there with the insistence that 'The people want Trump'.

marno21

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is wrong with Harris?

My take form the 2020 election was that you need a competent person, that sticks to a message and comes across as sincere and likeable.

I don't know enough about Harris to make a judgement on where she sits on those. What they also need to learn, and they did in 2020, was not to underestimate the other side, which HC very much did in 2016 (and tbh in 2008 with Obama).

Tell me how wrote: »

You mean the election they won?

What did you see during the 2020 campaign that would have you think they should regret their choice?

Biden manages to come across with a well received message and is seen as a safe pair of hands. One of the things he excels at is appealing as a centre left (by US standards) candidate economically without getting dragged into the cultural/social black hole that other candidates tend to get dragged into.

The key in 2024 will be appealing to the voters that voted Dem in 2020 without getting stuck in endless debates about abortion/guns/the myriad of divisive social issues that cause the Dems to lose elections. The Republicans are masters of getting them bogged down like this and have been playing that card with years. Elizabeth Warren had some very popular economic policies but could not keep away from these type of unwinnable debates.

I can't see Harris winning the race to 270. She may win the popular vote but the focus in 2024 has to be winning the 270 electoral votes, as it was in 2020.

Quin_Dub

Tell me how wrote: »

I'd bet on DeSantis at this point but I wouldn't put it past him to try to get Ivanka in there with the insistence that 'The people want Trump'.

I can't see DeSantis taking a VP gig.

Why would he hitch his wagon to that likely failure?

If Trump runs DeSantis will sit it out and go around again as Florida Gov.

He won't run against Trump in the GOP Primary and running as VP and losing gets him nothing and casts him adrift for years.

He's pretty young he's only 43 or so , all the time in the world for him to build towards a 2028 run.

He'll pick up another 4 years as Gov in 2022 and then declare for 2028 and run then.

Tell me how

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I can't see DeSantis taking a VP gig.

Why would he hitch his wagon to that likely failure?

If Trump runs DeSantis will sit it out and go around again as Florida Gov.

He won't run against Trump in the GOP Primary and running as VP and losing gets him nothing and casts him adrift for years.

He's pretty young he's only 43 or so , all the time in the world for him to build towards a 2028 run.

He'll pick up another 4 years as Gov in 2022 and then declare for 2028 and run then.

74M votes and the full backing of the Republican party.

(Plus, either he has already hitched his wagon to Trump or they are somewhat kindred spirits given his propensity for bully boy tactics)

Again, I'm coming from the position that I don't at all think Trump is dead set to lose should he run in 24 no matter how much I hope that to be the case and if so, DeSantis might view 4-8 years as VP and then run himself at 50 or 54 as a pretty attractive proposition.

Niki Halley is still in the mix also. I previously mentioned her as a possible Republican front runner in 24 but given she announced recently that she will not run against Trump, maybe in fact she is positioning herself for the VP position at that time.

Christy42

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I can't see DeSantis taking a VP gig.

Why would he hitch his wagon to that likely failure?

If Trump runs DeSantis will sit it out and go around again as Florida Gov.

He won't run against Trump in the GOP Primary and running as VP and losing gets him nothing and casts him adrift for years.

He's pretty young he's only 43 or so , all the time in the world for him to build towards a 2028 run.

He'll pick up another 4 years as Gov in 2022 and then declare for 2028 and run then.

Is it a guaranteed failure? After they lost this year they immediately started putting in the work to make it as hard as possible to vote against them. Near as I can see those efforts have been pretty successful and Democrats will have severe issues ensuring that their base can and will vote in the face of the GOP suppression.

They already got 74 million votes, they have people who will never ever think anything bad about Trump locked in for 4 years. Now they just need to stop those who don't like them from voting and they may well succeed.

Quin_Dub

Tell me how wrote: »

74M votes and the full backing of the Republican party.

(Plus, either he has already hitched his wagon to Trump or they are somewhat kindred spirits given his propensity for bully boy tactics)

Again, I'm coming from the position that I don't at all think Trump is dead set to lose should he run in 24 no matter how much I hope that to be the case and if so, DeSantis might view 4-8 years as VP and then run himself at 50 or 54 as a pretty attractive proposition.

Niki Halley is still in the mix also. I previously mentioned her as a possible Republican front runner in 24 but given she announced recently that she will not run against Trump, maybe in fact she is positioning herself for the VP position at that time.

I know what you mean , but even if Trump was to win in 2024 , the GOP would then be beyond toxic by the time 2028 rolls around , so unless DeSantis is happy with a one term stint as a VP there's not much upside for him.

The smarter play is the long game , he can be a full throated Trump booster in 2022 and 2024 but still be able to pivot away as needed later on.

Assuming he runs and win the Florida Governorship again in 2022 , the timing for a Presidential run in 2028 from a second Biden term works well , equally if it was a Trump term then he just takes another 4 year stint in Florida from 2026 and again has a glide path to 2032 and still only in his early 50's.