2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118400933#Comment_118400933

And there was never before a drought nor a powerful windstorm in the history of the planet until Rudolf Diesel invented the diesel/oil internal combustion engine.

Orion402

As we move into January, the increasing daylight lengths are building up a head of steam now as the North Pole turns closer to the light hemisphere of the Earth-

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/ireland/dublin?month=1&year=2022

At the same time, the circumference where the Sun remains out of sight begins to shrink as the radius between the North Polar latitude and the light hemisphere shortens and this will continue to happen until the circumference disappears altogether on the March Equinox when the Sun comes into view for the first time in 6 months. Then the expanding circumference where the Sun remains constantly in view takes over and with it the decrease in sea ice and the weakening of the polar vortex while at our latitudes, atmospheric conditions warm up.

Planetary climate, in comparison to other planets, is a pleasant affair by virtue that the rate of change from Solstice to Equinox or even Solstice to Solstice across hemispheres is not dramatic like Uranus nor is it benign like Jupiter and Venus but just right for life on Earth.

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118400585#Comment_118400585

If we had vehicles that were “powered by CO2” then AGW most likely would not be problem, think first. 🤦‍♂️

To dissemble your other point, your in favour of letting these fires burn through without intervention are you, similarly to letting a child cry itself to sleep. 🤦‍♂️

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402049#Comment_118402049

You really should take a step back to understand some basics before opening up with statements.

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404157#Comment_118404157

In 4 Billion years Earth will be exactly like Venus. Indeed 4 Billion years ago Venus was apparently habitable. The rotation of Venus has no thing to do with being habitable likewise Jupiter is a gas giant so that’s uninhabitable. I think you think nobody knows what your on about with posts about the rotation of the Earth but I do and it seems like your putting the current climate crisis down to the seasonality.

Orion402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404258#Comment_118404258

All planets in the solar system with an atmosphere have a climate irrespective of size and distance from the Sun.

Venus, because of its inclination far removed from the orbital plane, has an equatorial climate as conditions remain the same as it orbits our parent star. Nothing much happens with such an equatorial climate as it represents stability in atmospheric conditions across latitudes.

Uranus, on the other hand, with its inclination close to the orbital plane has wild swings in conditions across latitudes including the Spring storms picked up by Hubble between 1994-98-

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1999/ast29mar99_1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp94gLPjt8c

The trick is to create common traits by which to compare climate among planets and discern the traits which use the motions of the Earth in isolation and in combination.

Nabber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118400933#Comment_118400933

You come across as disingenuous with your posts. Colorado suffers droughts naturally. AGW didn’t bring on droughts as a new event to the region, AGW didn’t bring on wildfires in December as a new disaster to the area, the drought was unmentionable until their was a fire. As always when the layers are peeled away of alarmism you find it’s just more of the same hyperbole, were wild fires are the poster boy of the alarmism campaign.

Akrasia

I have been talking about how climate change has and will extend the wildfire season on this forum for years

Wildfires are natural, but changes to the climate can make them more frequent and more intense and bring them to places that were not previously used to them

The wildfires I mentioned were the most extreme in that state's history, following a record breaking dry autumn and winter for the area

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118402049#Comment_118402049

Right now, we're seeing 1000 year storms happening every few years, We are getting to a point where we are going to see storms and extreme weather of an intensity that no human has ever experienced.

Until the first category 6 hurricane arrives, people like you will continue to bury your head in the sand.

(We may have already seen some with Dorian in 2019 and Patricia in 2015)

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409726#Comment_118409726

Earth and Venus are very similar, similar in size, both have an atmosphere and are volcanic. Volcanic activity on both planets pushed carbon and sulphur etc into the atmosphere but because Venus is much closer to the Sun and therefore hotter its liquid water essentially evaporated into space in the form of hydrogen and the oxygen bound with the carbon from the volcanoes which shrouds Venus today which in turn traps all the heat and ultraviolet rays from the sun making Venus hot and extremely hostile to life. This will happen to Earth in 3 to 5 billon years, around the same time the Andromeda Galaxy merges with The Milyway.

When you say orbital plane Im assuming you're refer to Earths as basis point. If that is the case then Venus "orbital plane' is higher than Earths for one half cycle.

Also your claim that nothing happens on Venus is total garbage,

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/venus-temp20110926.html

This has been known for some time^

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410111#Comment_118410111

The huge differences in orbit, atmospheric composition, rotational axis and velocity etc make casual comparisons between the climate of 2 planetary bodies meaningless

We've seen on Earth that a slight wobble on our rotational axis combined with a change in concentration of some gasses in our atmosphere by a few hundred parts per million has been the difference between a snowball earth and a hothouse earth

Any back of the envelope comparison between earth and Venus is pointless. All of the variables need to be precisely worked out and we don't even know the formula for those calculations

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410165#Comment_118410165

Tell that to orion42. But it is a fact that the Sun will eventually expand and probably consume the plant.

Orion402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410111#Comment_118410111

Venus is Earth's sister planet, the Earth has a rapid rotation rate, a 26 mile spherical deviation between equatorial and polar diameters with both plate tectonics and volcanic activity. Venus has residual rotation, no spherical deviation and the largest volcanic activity in the solar system. This is how you make planetary comparisons with differential rotation across latitudes in the rotating viscous material beneath the surface crust as a basis for the driving mechanism of plate tectonics on Earth.

A planet's atmosphere is also a viscous material and also subject to differential rotation across latitudes like Jupiter-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POiAoF8TyGA

The 3 degree inclination of Jupiter doesn't allow for the seasonal variations which facilitate atmospheric conditions to change like the great storm seen in the Southern hemisphere, whereas the temperature fluctuations across the Earth with it's inclination closer to the orbital plane are conducive for hurrricane season, Arctic sea ice development and major events like that-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNHRLgjLjA

If you guys want to worry yourselves about petrol pumps and cows, then be my guest, the real issues of planetary climate refer planetary dynamics to cause and effect while using modelling to compare different conditions, for example, if the Earth had an inclination like Jupiter (equatorial climate) or Uranus (polar climate). The Earth has a largely equatorial climate with a sizable but minor polar component.

When I proposed differential rotation across latitudes to make plate tectonics fit neatly with the 26 mile spherical deviation of the Earth, I discovered that those who attempted to work with planetary rotation couldn't handle the arguments properly and made a dog's dinner of the explanation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics#Driving_forces_related_to_Earth_rotation

Unlike some people who whine and complain about being recognised, it takes some consideration to link different facets of Earth sciences together like climate, geology, biology and all the other inter-connecting components needed to explain present and past conditions, just like the meteorologist Alfred Wegener once suggested-

“Scientists still do not appear to understand sufficiently that all earth sciences must contribute evidence toward unveiling the state of our planet in earlier times, and that the truth of the matter can only be reached by combing all this evidence." Alfred Wegener

Orion402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410165#Comment_118410165

Back of the envelope indeed * !.

It takes skill and consideration to compare conditions between two planets that are similar like Earth and Venus. In geology, I looked at the conditions which distinguish a vibrant Earth in terms of plate tectonics whereas Venus is just a volcanic planet with no spherical deviation. It extends on to comparisons with the Earth for bow shocks-

Goodness forbid that Earth sciences became fun to work with instead of the computer generated hallucinations created by the subculture of climate change modelling.

If it is any consolation, making planetary comparisons using disciplined physical considerations is not for everyone.

*It is like describing the 1509 Commentariolus of Copernicus a 'back of the envelope' description of a moving Earth in a Sun-centred system.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410716#Comment_118410716

Yeah, in billions of years as our star runs out of hydrogen and enters a new phase of its lifespan. Its not really relevant to this thread at all and I have no interest in engaging with Orions wierd astrological musings on this site

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410999#Comment_118410999

Well that’s the only reason I brought it up. Orion 42 is saying that climate change is seasonal and using and hiding that fact within a black bag of rubbish just like MT did imo.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410076#Comment_118410076

1000 year storms? Really, European settlers are only on the north American continent for less than half that time, and we haven't even weather records of much value for half of the time European settlers have been there either.

This talk of 1000 year storms and indeed alot of the climate change talk is just like Philip Nolan's Covid19 models - way off.

Orion402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411041#Comment_118411041

You are a naughty boy, but then again, when within a subculture, you only see what you want to see so no fault there.

All planets have a climate based on the degree of inclination to the orbital plane and therefore it amounts to the rate of change in atmospheric/surface conditions across latitudes.

People will get such a satisfying experience by making planetary comparisons and particularly between Earth and Venus yet that being said, it extends onwards to all the other planets in the solar system. Those who approach the Earth's atmosphere like a common greenhouse look rough and crude and no wonder they are a dull and dour bunch who live off hysterical conclusions by stitching weather events together within the 24 hour news cycle. Nothing can be gained there so happy enough to see them off doing their own thing.

https://www.geolsoc.org.uk/~/media/shared/images/education%20careers/KS4/Chapter%201/chapter%201%20slide%2018.jpg?la=en

Wegener used the fossil record from biology, to join the African and American continents in order to suggest plate tectonics so, by comparing Venus with the Earth in terms of dynamics, it becomes possible to extend that work to include a rotational mechanism (differential rotation across latitudes) which neatly accounts for an evolving crust and the 26 mile spherical deviation simultaneously.

To get to planetary climate, it is necessary to explain the dynamics behind daily temperature fluctuations, seasonal temperature fluctuations. Unfortunately, we live in a world where empirical modellers can't even get the daily temperature fluctuations right and imagine the dark/light hemispheres pivot off an Earth with a zero degree inclination to explain seasonal variations-

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap210922.html

Goodness me!.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411102#Comment_118411102

We have this thing called Maths that allows us to extrapolate data from a set and calculate probabilities from a known distribution

We don't need to know the climate for a full thousand years. We just need to know the current climate and we can plot the distribution

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/event-tracker/how-can-we-call-something-thousand-year-storm-if-we-don%E2%80%99t-have-thousand

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411240#Comment_118411240

Right O

Orion402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411305#Comment_118411305

Thank you and have a ball annoying the rest of society, they have had enough anxiety to last them a lifetime with covid so probably won't have a budget for speculative conclusions passed off as factual certainties.

Planetary climate is really only for those who can actually discuss the climate of planets and I shrug if that discussion is something less than it should be.

Akrasia

The climate of planets...

Planets with an atmosphere have extremely complex and dynamic climates. Your reductionist assertions that a few orbital variables dictate climate is absurd and is easily easily proven to be absurd

Its up there with the claim that went around these circles a year or two ago that the atmospheric density was the primary driver of climate. Density is one variable, The proportion of gases in the atmosphere are another variable, the variability in the orbit and inclination are another property, the speed of axial rotation, the mass of the planet, the proportion of the planets surface that is solid versus liquid, and the distribution of those continents, the variability in geo-thermal activity, the distance from the sun, the magnetic field, the variability of that magnetic field, the presence of tides, the number of moons and how they are distributed, the albedo of the planet, the presense of larger more massive bodies in proximity to the planet.... all of these and many many more variables all affect the climate of a planet

With climate change, we are talking about a single planet, Earth, where we have measured the variables that affect weather and climate, and there have not been any changes in any of the variables that are sufficient to explain the observed changes other than the proportion of gasses in the atmosphere. We have measured an increase in greenhouse gasses. everything else is either static, or forcing towards cooling rather than warming at the moment.

Orion402

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118414144#Comment_118414144

The climate of all planets and the common traits by which individual planetary climates can be compared is not for everyone and clearly I wouldn't count you among those capable individuals, at least at the moment.

It is not just the relationship between axial inclination to the orbital plane, but also the circumference generated by that relationship that we know as the Arctic and Antarctic circles. The equivalent of Jupiter's Arctic/Antarctic circles are tiny compared to the Earth while the circumference of Uranus's circles are enormous compared to the Earth.

Planetary climate for all planets is really the rate of change in atmospheric and surface conditions across latitudes as a planet orbits the Sun irrespective of orbital periods or distance from the Sun. The Earth has its own unique climate based on this criteria and enjoyed on that account.

The value of modelling here would be to use different axial inclinations for the Earth from 0° to a maximum 90° so that genuine researchers can get a handle as to why we have the climate we do as a planet and then from a geographical point of view (maritime climate, continental climate ect) as a separate approach. Trying to build up a picture of climate through weather events is for the hapless.

If you want to irritate people with dire conclusions then be my guest, the answer is not to conjure up even more dire conclusions into a bigger can of worms as the other fella tried to do but to do something few people do at the moment - they actually look at the Earth and its motions.

Danno

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/irish-electrical-vehicle-supports-benefit-the-wealthy-study-finds-1.4817841

Can you imagine my shock at reading this article. Class warfare at its finest - wealthy folks subsidised by the poor folks again.

Orion402

https://www.met.ie/improving-our-understanding-of-the-north-atlantic-system-and-its-impact-in-ireland

"EC-Earth CMIP6 temperature change (℃) for the year 2100 with respect to the pre-industrial period (1850-1900) under the four main IPCC AR6 ScenarioMIP pathways – Figure courtesy of Paul Nolan."

It all looks very dramatic and I am sure it makes people frown to see deep reds show up in less than 100 years time.

So, the modellers project definite temperature rises, however, they reference it to the juncture of the industrial/pre-industrial era rather than providing a base temperature against which the speculative rises are measured. It is just a way to dump anxiety on humanity by misusing the Earth science of climate.

I find it remarkable, but then again, dumping anxiety on humanity seems to be some sort of sporting indulgence by the same people who gave us drunken speculative conclusions on covid. Although I don't play computer games I imagine others do enjoy it as a pastime, however, I wouldn't want to make it a formal venture apart from short term weather modelling.

Nabber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404258#Comment_118404258

Wooops, misquoted by me.

Nabber

‘We are actually living through the consequences’ of the climate-change crisis with Russia’s attack of Ukraine, Kerry says

climate change is to be blamed for everything

Orion402

In less than a week, the Sun comes into view for the one and only time in 6 months as the North pole turns into the light hemisphere of the Earth. It does not 'tilt', that polar latitude where daily rotation velocity is zero turns in a circle to the central/stationary Sun as a function of the orbital behaviour of the Earth-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPshCulaJHU&t=89s

This is positive news for any genuine person who is curious about our planet and what makes life possible. Whatever modelling is involved, it is done so for interpretation rather than predictions, dire or otherwise.

For the next 3 months, the area where the Sun remains in view with the North pole at its centre begins to expand until it reaches its maximum circumference (Arctic circle) on the June Solstice while the area where the Sun remains out of view is reached at the Antarctic circle with the South polar latitude at its centre.

The study of planetary climate follows on from this as it is the relationship of the North/South poles relative to the orbital plane that determines the extent of the Arctic/Antarctic circles.

NedsNotDead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792820#Comment_118792820

I take it you've moved on to this thread as posters had stopped taking notice of the 2 threads you'd previously started

Pussyhands

Measuring disasters in $ terms is surely nonsense considering inflation?