Marriage: is it worth it?

Deemed as Normal

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This is why you get a pre nup.

But that must be really awkward?!

Deemed as Normal

Ubbquittious wrote: »

So many people change in a bad way when they realise the person they married cant escape that easily.

I'd really like to know how frequently that actually happens. I hear people say it all the time, but I always get the impression they're just being cynical.

I'd like to know how much of time it's down to the man not being a good judge of character beforehand, and how much of the time it's down to the woman just suddenly changing for the bad!?

Deemed as Normal

Deemed as Normal wrote: »

I'd really like to know how frequently that actually happens. I hear people say it all the time, but I always get the impression they're just being cynical.

Be a hard one to study as you would struggle to get honest responses.

XsApollo

I don’t see marriage as a problem, it’s getting out of it where the problem lies.
Getting divorced is not easy.
Archaic family law in this country which hasn’t seemed to move with the times in regards to equality.

Also there are financial incentives to get married, tax , loans , mortgages ,
That don’t apply unless ye are married, but yet another set of rules come in if you decide to break up unmarried suddenly ye might be treated as if ye were.

It’s the treatment of marriage and laws and stuff in this country that make marriage a bad thing when it goes wrong.
Of course people don’t realise that until they actually have to navigate it.
It should come with a big Disclaimer basically until laws and stuff have been changed.

For men anyway

I will be finding out soon enough. The financial and legal side of it doesn't mean much to me. Instead it is about a feeling, all the feelings. It solidifies something inside for me. It isn't about declaring our love in front of others but declaring it to ourselves.

We are having all the bells and whistles because fùck it I never thought I'd see the day. All of that is a completely separate element though to the actual union and I think people can easily get caught up in the spectacle and lose sight of the what and why.

Crocodile Booze

martinedwards wrote: »

Married 28 years and still loving every second!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say she knows your boards username?

eviltwin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I will be finding out soon enough. The financial and legal side of it doesn't mean much to me. Instead it is about a feeling, all the feelings. It solidifies something inside for me. It isn't about declaring our love in front of others but declaring it to ourselves.

We are having all the bells and whistles because fùck it I never thought I'd see the day. All of that is a completely separate element though to the actual union and I think people can easily get caught up in the spectacle and lose sight of the what and why.

But you have those feelings of love anyway don’t you? How will getting married make your relationship better or stronger? I’m 13 years married, together 25 in total. I don’t see much of a difference tbh personally. We aren’t any more loving or less annoying to each other than we were before.

I can understand the importance of marriage years ago when you were basically stuck together for life. Now though it’s not the commitment it was. Having children together or even buying a property is a bigger bind.

People put marriage on a pedestal for some reason. I’m very happy with my marriage and have no regrets but apart from the legal protections I don’t see a point in it.

XsApollo

XsApollo wrote: »

I don’t see marriage as a problem, it’s getting out of it where the problem lies.
Getting divorced is not easy.
Archaic family law in this country which hasn’t seemed to move with the times in regards to equality.

It should be really hard to get married and really easy to divorce. Not the other way round.

Ubbquittious

Deemed as Normal wrote: »

I'd really like to know how frequently that actually happens. I hear people say it all the time, but I always get the impression they're just being cynical.

I'd like to know how much of time it's down to the man not being a good judge of character beforehand, and how much of the time it's down to the woman just suddenly changing for the bad!?

I have seen it happen enough times to put me off. Could also be the man who changes for the bad

Mister Vain

Would you go skydiving if you knew the chances of the parachute not opening was the same as the chances of a marriage ending in divorce?

Wibbs

I do wish people would stop automatically extrapolating American online cultural notions and idiocies on marriage and divorce rates and making out Ireland is the same. Never mind the American divorce rate isn't 50% or anything near it, so even the "source facts" are completely bloody arseways.

Ireland has one of the lowest divorce rates in the western world and the lowest in Europe.

FACT: The divorce rate in Ireland was the lowest in Europe in 2015 according to Eurostat figures. It showed less than one divorce occurred for every 1,000 people – 0.7 in every 1,000 to be exact. Malta and Montenegro were the only other countries with less than one divorce for every 1,000 people – they came in at 0.8 and 0.9 respectively. Under one in a thousand marriages is just a little different than half or a quarter. Under one in a thousand are pretty bloody good odds.

Again stop copying plastic Yank cranks online with their heads up their arses. Not just around divorce either. This is not America thank fuck.

Church on Tuesday

Louis Friend wrote: »

It is worth it.

I wouldn’t allow marriages that have turned sour to colour your views.

It’s a public declaration of love and the formation of a family unit in front of family, friends, and the State.

Plus it’s important if kids are on the agenda.

But yet if you are a father it won't make any difference in any event as you will have no rights only obligations.

Strumms

McTigs wrote: »

If you go into marraige with any thought of "what's in it for me" you have completely missed the point and are bound to be unhappy

Why ? I get that being selfless is a positive thing, ‘to a point’.

In life though, you have to look after yourself and your wellbeing.

Life is not a rehearsal, you have one chance at this. If you fûck up the consequences can be very grave. Picking the wrong wife, husband and entering into a legal commitment with them that’s forever binding and if things fall apart you might be going from.....

Nice house to bedsit.

BMW to 41 BUS.

Holiday in Torremolinos to a few beers in Termonfeckin.

I saw my cousin get shafted and if it wasn’t for the help of my Dad and his mates...as well as some damning WhatsApp conversations she sent him in anger which he was savvy enough to save... he managed to get out pretty much 50/50. But that was not always looking likely he had all sorts of accusations made against him, thankfully a very strong judge and legal team absolutely tore her to ribbons. She in the end was another ‘mintal health’ screecher just conveniently at the end.....when things were hitting the rocks...

What’s in it for you should be a prime concern. Not the only concern but a concern for definite. One needs to protect themselves in this life. Enough screwballs and chancers out there.

kerryjack

Nobody gives a ****e now if you are married or not. It was different 20, 30 years ago parents putting pressure on there kids to get married I was the first one in my family to live with partner befor we got married, we lived together for about 4 years before we got married, My mother didn't like it, kind of snubbed us, plenty hints like you better make an honest women out of her. Thank god now that has changed.

1874

Wibbs wrote: »

Never mind the American divorce rate isn't 50% or anything near it, so even the "source facts" are completely bloody arseways.

Ireland has one of the lowest divorce rates in the western world and the lowest in Europe.

FACT: The divorce rate in Ireland was the lowest in Europe in 2015 according to Eurostat figures. It showed less than one divorce occurred for every 1,000 people – 0.7 in every 1,000 to be exact. Malta and Montenegro were the only other countries with less than one divorce for every 1,000 people – they came in at 0.8 and 0.9 respectively. Under one in a thousand marriages is just a little different than half or a quarter. Under one in a thousand are pretty bloody good odds.

Again stop copying plastic Yank cranks online with their heads up their arses. Not just around divorce either. This is not America thank fuck.

You seem to be suggesting/inferring that this is because people are happy? yes/no? if so, I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. I'm more inclined to think a lot of people (mainly men I'd say) don't even try to get out because it can be/usually is a lot worse (particularly for a man) than staying in an unhappy marriage, whereas a woman can get out with a certain amount more ease and a security net not afforded to a husband.

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

But you have those feelings of love anyway don’t you? How will getting married make your relationship better or stronger? I’m 13 years married, together 25 in total. I don’t see much of a difference tbh personally. We aren’t any more loving or less annoying to each other than we were before.

I can understand the importance of marriage years ago when you were basically stuck together for life. Now though it’s not the commitment it was. Having children together or even buying a property is a bigger bind.

People put marriage on a pedestal for some reason. I’m very happy with my marriage and have no regrets but apart from the legal protections I don’t see a point in it.

Marriage doesn't make love or take it away. The dynamic between the two people is what decides those things. I love my Fiancé more than I thought I could love anyone and to my great surprise its reciprocated. Getting married means something to us that's beyond legal and financial. I can't articulate why it matters for us but it does.

I didn't alway think that way but when I met him those beliefs were changed along with me.

1874

Deleted User wrote: »

Marriage doesn't make love or take it away. The dynamic between the two people is what decides those things. I love my Fiancé more than I thought I could love anyone and to my great surprise its reciprocated. Getting married means something to us that's beyond legal and financial. I can't articulate why it matters for us but it does.

I didn't alway think that way but when I met him those beliefs were changed along with me.

Sounds a reasonable way to view things, what if she changes her tune, 12 yrs or 2 yrs or 2 weeks after you're married?
If the other person is reasonable then you're ok, but if not or it blatantly wasn't apparent and then either suddenly or gradually changed, then what, I'll tell you what, you'll be flucked.
The whole inheritance thing is a State approved wallet pilfering scam, zero benefit to you if you die what happens after, but the State is happy to browbeat/scam people into the benefits, but on the other hand offers no or limited benefits to genuine cohabiting couples?? so people should be pressured to marry for those reasons, same reason there is no Stamp duty charge to add a spouses name to a property you already own, I'm sure going the opposite direction there is, assuming you can even do that.

1874

1874 wrote: »

Sounds a reasonable way to view things, what if she changes her tune, 12 yrs or 2 yrs or 2 weeks after you're married?
If the other person is reasonable then you're ok, but if not or it blatantly wasn't apparent and then either suddenly or gradually changed, then what, I'll tell you what, you'll be flucked.
The whole inheritance thing is a State approved wallet pilfering scam, zero benefit to you if you die what happens after, but the State is happy to browbeat/scam people into the benefits, but on the other hand offers no or limited benefits to genuine cohabiting couples?? so people should be pressured to marry for those reasons, same reason there is no Stamp duty charge to add a spouses name to a property you already own, I'm sure going the opposite direction there is, assuming you can even do that.

I'm the "she"

I have no interest in any of the financial "what ifs" around my relationship ending. Its likely those concerns would be the last thing on my mind. Of course every one is different and other people do have such concerns.

Thelonious Monk

I would say we have a low divorce rate because divorce wasn't even an option until relatively recently and it's not really part of our culture, maybe the Catholic guilt thing has a part to play too. Instead we probably have a lot of unhappy marriages or maybe we're just good at accepting the banality of it all compared to other countries.

XsApollo

Wibbs wrote: »

I do wish people would stop automatically extrapolating American online cultural notions and idiocies on marriage and divorce rates and making out Ireland is the same. Never mind the American divorce rate isn't 50% or anything near it, so even the "source facts" are completely bloody arseways.

Ireland has one of the lowest divorce rates in the western world and the lowest in Europe.

FACT: The divorce rate in Ireland was the lowest in Europe in 2015 according to Eurostat figures. It showed less than one divorce occurred for every 1,000 people – 0.7 in every 1,000 to be exact. Malta and Montenegro were the only other countries with less than one divorce for every 1,000 people – they came in at 0.8 and 0.9 respectively. Under one in a thousand marriages is just a little different than half or a quarter. Under one in a thousand are pretty bloody good odds.

Again stop copying plastic Yank cranks online with their heads up their arses. Not just around divorce either. This is not America thank fuck.

Plenty of people separated in this country because divorce wasn’t available at the time, you had to wait 5 years, now 3, people afraid to go to solicitors for the cost involved, not taking on the task themselves, Family law itself, stigma due to Catholic Churches influence, the list goes on.
Can be years getting a divorce here,
Our divorce rate will climb over the next few years as younger generation get older.

1874

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm the "she"

I have no interest in any of the financial "what ifs" around my relationship ending. Its likely those concerns would be the last thing on my mind. Of course every one is different and other people do have such concerns.

IMO it still holds true, regardless of he/she, ie if someone changes (Im not trying to convince you or anyone otherwise, I certainly dont try persuade anyone already going down that road with my opinions)
In reality, a woman has a lot less to fear from changing circumstances, especially if there are children, its an unfortunate fact, a guy could get a house he previously bought in his own name taken off him, wouldnt go the other way.

XsApollo wrote: »

Plenty of people separated in this country because divorce wasn’t available at the time, you had to wait 5 years, now 3, people afraid to go to solicitors for the cost involved, not taking on the task themselves, Family law itself, stigma due to Catholic Churches influence, the list goes on.
Can be years getting a divorce here,
Our divorce rate will climb over the next few years as younger generation get older.

Well hopefully divorce rates will be affected by less people getting married until things change for the better in terms of real equality. If marriage rates fall, I'd say it would practically guarantee the State would introduce changes to cohabiting durations and onus/responsibility on unmarried men.
There is no equivalent benefits for cohabitating couples re inheritence, how many aspects of family law cant or haven't been challenged at a national or European level is questionable imo, regarding mens rights, assets (especially those brought by one party into a marriage).

bertiebomber

Ubbquittious wrote: »

You are basically paying a few 100 quid for a piece of paper from MeHole martin that names the person you're supposed to shag for the rest of your days

I dont see the point at all. So many people change in a bad way when they realise the person they married cant escape that easily.

you can always escape by just walking out the door it depends on how much you value your freedom against how greedy you are...... many a woman just opened the front door and said hasta la vista baby never to be heard from again but you only hear the about the sh it shows !!

pgj2015

This is how paranoid I am about marriage. If I meet someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. We will both live in our separate homes, no kids. That way if it doesnt work out, both of us can just walk away scot free.

corner of hells

pgj2015 wrote: »

This is how paranoid I am about marriage. If I meet someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. We will both live in our separate homes, no kids. That way if it doesnt work out, both of us can just walk away scot free.

Sounds amazing.

Wibbs

1874 wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting/inferring that this is because people are happy? yes/no? if so, I'm not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. I'm more inclined to think a lot of people (mainly men I'd say) don't even try to get out because it can be/usually is a lot worse (particularly for a man) than staying in an unhappy marriage, whereas a woman can get out with a certain amount more ease and a security net not afforded to a husband.

And yet our divorce figures suggest women aren't getting out to nearly the degree some seem to think. If it were much of an advantage for them to do so then why aren't the numbers higher? And let's say the figures are low because of [insert reasons]. OK, double them, triple them, quadruple them. It's still not within an asses roar of the "half of all marriages fail"(or a similarly high percentage) stuff you hear some people come out with. If you look at a world map of divorce even the highest rates are still pretty damned small. In essence many more people stay married than divorce. Age, social status and education comes into it too. Countries like the US with earlier ages of marriage are more likely to have high divorce rates. University educated couples in their 30's have much lower rates.

I'm no cheerleader for marriage. Never even occurred to me no matter how much in love I've been and it still wouldn't occur to me.* However while marriages and long term relationships can have their downsides as well as up, though mostly meh sides from what I can tell, most people it seems are content enough to stick around and most people are happier in a relationship than not.






*"Oh you could meet someone tomorrow and they'd be The One and you'd just know." Sure, but if I felt like that I'd triple check myself as that's just fantasy nonsense and it has been my observation usually with a touch of desperation in one party.

cms88

As much as people say otherwise it's much better for the woman. There are women out there who are only interested in having the big day out etc, get a house and have a baby, in whatever order, and then leave as they have everything they want/need.

HBC08

pgj2015 wrote: »

This is how paranoid I am about marriage. If I meet someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. We will both live in our separate homes, no kids. That way if it doesnt work out, both of us can just walk away scot free.

Put that on your Tinder blurb.

Wilbury Twist

I think a good prerequisite for both parties to the marriage is that both are financially independent prior to signing on the dotted line. They wouldn't admit it of course but the free meal ticket element of deciding to marry is a real factor involved for many, not exclusively on the woman's side of things but more so than the other way around based on what I've seen in my social circle.

When money comes in the front door love can often run out the back door to the divorce courts for a nice financial package nest egg.

For men especially it's a case of Caveat Emptor in order to avoid buyers remorse and not being able to hand the receipt back in for a refund!

Potential-Monke

pgj2015 wrote: »

This is how paranoid I am about marriage. If I meet someone I want to spend the rest of my life with. We will both live in our separate homes, no kids. That way if it doesnt work out, both of us can just walk away scot free.

I'd be in a similar boat here. I'm 37 and have had 2 x 7 year relationships since I was 16ish. Both were great until we moved in together and slowly things started going downhill (imo). First one ended up shifting another lad, and while I tried to make it work after that, the trust was gone so we ended it less than a year later. Second one I ended because she wanted kids and I didn't.

But in both those situations, I thought I really knew these women before we moved in together. It's when you're living together that the truth comes out. Not saying I'm an angel, but I don't think I did anything wrong, other than be myself. As someone else said, add in kids, a mortgage, probably a pet... things get messy easily.

My parents are married 50 years this March. 50. I can't even fathom liking someone that long, let alone loving them! But, my mother will say that if it was modern Ireland, she wouldn't have lasted 50 years. She can think of 3 very specific times when she was close to ending the relationship, and only stayed because of the stigma (one of those times I was brought on a "holiday" with her, little did I know at the time that was the closest she was to leaving. Should have sussed something was up when there was no definite "go home" day, but she bought me Point Blank and the G-Con for the PS1 before leaving so I didn't care). But that was their time, marriage was a necessity to "get along" in older Ireland.

Nowadays, marriage is a great concept, but the law needs to be dramatically changed so people can get the exact same benefits (ie: tax, etc) as a married couple without actually getting married. I believe steps have been made on that regard, but I'm not 100% on it.

Most people I know who are married are not exactly happy, but most are not sad either. They all realise they're caught in this limbo, and if anything goes wrong they know it's going to be hell to deal with. My best friend is married over 10 years (in a relationship 18) and has 2 kids. When they got married, neither wanted kids. Then she got broody, he said ok just to keep her happy and believed her when she said it would be great. After the second kid he got the snip, and I'm forever hearing about all the negatives, the drop in sex, the constant arguing, the lack of time for oneself, the fact that 80% of the money he works hard for is gone before he can go near it, and lives on a few hundred a month for himself.

Maybe I'm just lucky to be surrounded by people who not only agree with my way of life (single, couldn't be arsed trying, tis great really), but actively encourage me to keep it. Even my parents are coming round to my way of thinking, having being involved in all the issues with my siblings and their partners (one of which is "happily" divorced).

But again, the law is lacking in every regard when it comes to marriage. It needs to be updated asap to reflect modern living and not the catholic controlled version that's still in play here. Marriage was a necessity once, but no more.

pgj2015

Wilbury Twist wrote: »

I think a good prerequisite for both parties to the marriage is that both are financially independent prior to signing on the dotted line. They wouldn't admit it of course but the free meal ticket element of deciding to marry is a real factor involved for many, not exclusively on the woman's side of things but more so than the other way around based on what I've seen in my social circle.

When money comes in the front door love can often run out the back door to the divorce courts for a nice financial package nest egg.

For men especially it's a case of Caveat Emptor in order to avoid buyers remorse and not being able to hand the receipt back in for a refund!

The last few women who have asked me out have been gold diggers, one asked me straight out did people in my profession make much money lol some of them cant hide it but its the ones who can that would worry you.

I always let on that I havent a penny, 99% of the time you never hear from them again.