Recording service history

BearsyBoo

So a relative recently purchase a used car that turned out to have fraudulent service records provided, car is ok and was a private sale so just left it be.

This got me wondering how in this day and age service records are not digital, from my own research I see main dealer service records are recorded but only available to the registered user, again a printout that could be easily manipulated

This gave me a brain wave / brain fart and and now I am developing a software to solve the issue of non-existent/fraudulent service records.

I would love to hear any bodies ideas or input or even experience with service records.

Maybe someone in the industry could give me there perspective?

blackbox

I can't think of any justification for garages not sharing service history except that it's too much hassle.

Seth Brundle

Good luck with the software.
Out of curiosity, how will it solve the "solve the issue of non-existent/fraudulent service records"?
Or will it simply be a portal where a mechanic can add a service record for your car? If so, what incentive is there for mechanics to input details onto it?

BearsyBoo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Good luck with the software.
Out of curiosity, how will it solve the "solve the issue of non-existent/fraudulent service records"?
Or will it simply be a portal where a mechanic can add a service record for your car? If so, what incentive is there for mechanics to input details onto it?

there are two options, we can parse the data from the mechanic's invoicing software or the mechanic can input

we see this as a way for independent garages to add value to there offering, if a car owner can maintain value associated with a full service history which follows the car the hope would be that the mechanics would see the value in customer loyalty and to bridge the gap with main dealer service providers

Hopefully we will have a team in place that if you retrospectively provide a record it can be verified and uploaded

We would hope we could educate the customer so that it would chose to go to a garage that offered our digital service book

Seth Brundle

Bear in mind that the likes of my mechanic, a well known BMW specialist, provides detailed invoices outlining the work done and the costs, etc.
All of this is handwritten on paper however (which suits my records)!
He may input it into a digital system but if so, it would have been easier for him to give me a print out.

kirving

I'm pretty sure that all main dealers of all brands will log service records to an internal, internationally accessible database. It's part of what you're paying the dealer for, and it's just not worth the hassle for them to falsify records.

I'm struggling to see how a software based system, isn't prone to the same vulnerabilities as paper records - when filled out by anyone who worked on the car.

I got a printout from Mercedes with my previous E-Class. It was a UK company car with full records, but the Irish dealer said they could find no explicit mention of a gearbox oil change which should have been part of the recommended servicing at that milage.

I called the original UK dealer to check for myself, and with just the UK registration and a few letters of the VIN, they talked me through the full history. They couldn't find any mention of the gearbox oil change either, so I went ahead with it. Painless process.

I filled out the service book myself on a previous car, and kept all receipts. Buyer was happy enough with that. At some point, it would be easier for me to actually do the work than falsify the records.

zg3409

Electronic only service records only available to authorised dealers suit the vehicle importers. In order to get access to the service record you need to be an authorised dealer and if you are not, or were in the past but are no longer, you now have no access to service history and so you cannot tell what has and has not been performed. Also many vehicles have variable service schedules based on driving style, cold starts etc. so normal assumptions based on mileage is not valid.

As others have said how do you propose to get main importers owners of all the dealer network on board, then back street garages, and why would they bother? Ireland is terrible for keeping or even checking service history, in UK service history is far more valued.

I know main dealers only tend to resell used cars with full dealer history and they get rid of cars with non ideal service history as they can't stand over them.

I know on NCT they print previous NCT mileages to try counteract clocking, so something that records mileage during servicing would be good and useful to sites like cartell.ie I know some people clock cars just before NCT or importing so that it does not flag on that system.

I would have thought that companies like cartell would link in with main dealers and scrape their data to try detect suspicious mileage/clocking/ but service records even from main dealers only would be a good addition. I got caught by fake service handwritten notes myself, and I doubt there is any prosecutions to deter it so its probably common like clocking.

colm_mcm

Being straight - I can’t see your idea working.

BearsyBoo

colm_mcm wrote: »

Being straight - I can’t see your idea working.

Can you tell me the reason why?

BearsyBoo

The target market would be the independent garages not the main dealer

Seth Brundle

BearsyBoo wrote: »

The target market would be the independent garages not the main dealer

I couldn't see the brand network providing this information anyhow. It is not in their interest to facilitate it as they want owners to stick with them for servicing indefinitely. By making the service history available to third parties then they are facilitating owners in taking their business elsewhere.

colm_mcm

BearsyBoo wrote: »

Can you tell me the reason why?

A few reasons.

First one is actually getting the data from the likes of the brand dealer networks. Their only concern is their own dealers, who all have access to this info if work was done in dealer network.

Then there’s the data itself, how much info will you realistically get from an invoicing system?

Then even if you get the info from even half the dealer networks, your data is still massively incomplete

Go down the chain to the smaller independent garages and the one man band operation, who won’t have a system to output the data from.



Then you have the issue of verifying the data

Who is going to pay you for the service?

What’s in it for the garage?

kirving

For the basic, and to be honest, and utmost important work like oil and filer changes, main dealers are often not significantly more expensive than independants anyway.

The right service history goes far beyond accurate and truthful data though, the actual quality of the work, or quality of the parts fitted don't matter really either if I'm being cynical. What you're buy at a main dealer, is their reputation, which will give confidence to future buyers.

If a main dealer fits a timing belt and it snaps a week later, they'll very likely eat the cost of the repair to keep the customer happy and make a future sale. That service history has an inherent value which independants don't necessarily come with as there is less incentive.

For someone who knows nothing about cars - a main dealer history is important.
For a community who have a trusted local mechanic who has built a good reputation over years - no service book will beat his word if he assesses a car for you.

There's a gap in between those two of course, but reputation is still important here too, and it's for this reason that the most popular pre-purchase used car checking service is from the AA or RAC. You'd need to link up with a well-known service to get you off the ground IMO.

Even then, no matter how accurate the service history is, it is absolutely no guarantee that you're buying a good car.

whippet

I’d also say the the process for validating the data is the most difficult part.

How can you verify what any mechanic says he has done or not done

Hurrache

BearsyBoo wrote: »

This got me wondering how in this day and age service records are not digital,

I bought a car earlier last year and when I checked the service book, it was completely empty. VW group record everything digitally now.

colm_mcm

There’s also the issue of retrospectively getting the data. How long would it take to build up a useful amount of new data?

Miscreant

Would GDPR regulations be a factor in this at all? It would certainly have to be looked at as I believe there are heavy requirements on being a "Data Controller".

mickdw

I actuqlly think the servicing has gone too far toward the digital side already.
Previously we had a service book which would be stamped.
Not brilliant by itself but if maindealer stamped, it was verifiable by contacting the dealer. This book backed up by invoices and all the random bits of service paperwork gave a very good picture of the servicing history as well as the type of owner.
Recent used cars now come with a crappy print out and / or built in records. All well and good as long as they are legit.
Not a big fan at all.

sumo12

blackbox wrote: »

I can't think of any justification for garages not sharing service history except that it's too much hassle.

GDPR GDPR GDPR

There's 3 reasons...

Seth Brundle

sumo12 wrote: »

GDPR GDPR GDPR

There's 3 reasons...

It wouldn't identify the previous owner(s) so may not necessarily be a GDPR issue

galwaytt

blackbox wrote: »

I can't think of any justification for garages not sharing service history except that it's too much hassle.

GDPR. Came across this reason when buying a car a few months ago. A well-known german franchise with 4 circly bits

Seller gave me the garage info, garage wouldn't share it, period.

Seth Brundle

I think it is used as an excuse nowadays to either tell people to bugger off or when the person is unsure and reckons that anything could fall under GDPR.
Personal data within the GDPR EU regulation is defined as:

"personal data" means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

(https://gdpr-info.eu/art-4-gdpr/)
When you think about it, what relating to the previous owner is provided within the car's service history?
It is the same with the NCT. For years didn't they say that they couldn't provide previous odometer readings because of data protection. Yet here we are now with it printed on the certs.

Alkers

Best option is for the vehicle owner to keep detailed records, receipts etc

theliam

Vinwiki exists as a way for you to record the history of a car from a personal standpoint.

To effect change in the whole sector would need involvement from SIMI.

There is also a Mechanics Association of Ireland facebook page which may be of use to you.

mickdw

galwaytt wrote: »

GDPR. Came across this reason when buying a car a few months ago. A well-known german franchise with 4 circly bits

Seller gave me the garage info, garage wouldn't share it, period.

I contacted a mercedes dealer when looking at a uk import from an indy here.
I told them id just bought it and looking to book it in for a service and anything else due.
He looked it up and told me it had not seen a mercedes garage since it was 6 months old and had 6k miles - This was circa 3 year old car with 40k miles even though full mercedes history was promised.
I think the trick is to say you own the car.

I bought a Peugeot 407 about 5 years ago (I think). It was a 2006. I remember it had a service history with it, that had a few stamps from a main Peugeot dealer (somewhere in Limerick if I recall right) and when I gave them a ring, not expecting much, they told me the car was in with them a few times, and although they didn't give specific info or dates, he did make a remark along the lines of 'call back later and we can look it up' (which I didn't do, in the end).

But I presume they had a digital record (or at least a filing cabinet perhaps!) with the history of my car on it.




EDIT: For myself, nowadays, I keep a record that I write out myself. But my cars are unlikely to ever have any value when I'm done with them, so it's just moreso to keep for myself. I use an Indy, and although he uses a computer to issue invoices/receipts etc I am unsure if he actually keeps a record.

User1998

mickdw wrote: »

I contacted a mercedes dealer when looking at a uk import from an indy here.
I told them id just bought it and looking to book it in for a service and anything else due.
He looked it up and told me it had not seen a mercedes garage since it was 6 months old and had 6k miles - This was circa 3 year old car with 40k miles even though full mercedes history was promised.
I think the trick is to say you own the car.

Yeah agreed, this is the best way to do it

bop1977

My 2017 Skoda superb has a digital copy of the service history saved in one of the menus.

kirving

galwaytt wrote: »

GDPR. Came across this reason when buying a car a few months ago. A well-known german franchise with 4 circly bits

Seller gave me the garage info, garage wouldn't share it, period.

The other side of it is, if the garage can make it as difficult as possible for a person to sell a car privately, then the person is more likely to trade in the car.

Also feeds the belief that cars on a forecourt are better quality than one on a driveway, because of two identical cars, one will have a printout and the other wont. Aside from choice and convenience, two big selling points the dealer has are warranty and service history, so they'll do what they can to keep it in house.

colm_mcm

A seller can easily get a record for their car if they want.

angela1711

I work for a main dealer (won’t mention the brand) and to be completely honest most of the time we forget to log the fact that the car was in for service. Well we would always have a copy of an invoice on the system but you are supposed to do a digital record which doesn’t have the customer personal data just chassis number, reg, date of the service and what was done. This is the record you are suppose to give to the customer but dealerships are so busy we forget to do it most of the time.

That means that the car doesn’t have any official service record even if the customer had it serviced regularly. Now there are ways around it and if somebody really wants a record there is a way to backdate time and create all the necessary paperwork.

The old fashioned service books were way more reliable because they had to be stamped by dealerships and unless you work or knew somebody that works in one you wouldn’t be able to forge the stamp.

Toyotafanboi

You can just as easily forget to stamp a book as you can forget to log it digitally though.

For what it's worth, brands where the front of house/ service advisor is expected to log the records, compliance seems to be very low vs brands where the technician is expected to log the record.

Uncoincidentally i would say, brands that i have seen where the technician logs the online record are measured by the manufacturer on workshop throughputs vs online records created and are fined if one is not consistent with the other.

Virtually every brand is different however.

angela1711

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You can just as easily forget to stamp a book as you can forget to log it digitally though.

For what it's worth, brands where the front of house/ service advisor is expected to log the records, compliance seems to be very low vs brands where the technician is expected to log the record.

Uncoincidentally i would say, brands that i have seen where the technician logs the online record are measured by the manufacturer on workshop throughputs vs online records created and are fined if one is not consistent with the other.

Virtually every brand is different however.

Oddly enough in our dealerships the service advisors do a digital record but if it’s an older car that still has a service book that would be stamped by a technician and people normally look at their book when collecting their car so if a stamp is missing they would tell us immediately.

Most people don’t even realize that they are suppose to get a copy of their digital service record.

averyon

Hi , my e class was subject to a recall 14 July contacted the mercedes garage to book it in as we are going to France in 2 weeks . Never got to speak to the service dept but the receptionist informed me that the recall work was done in June when it was been serviced. The recall work does not appear on the invoice or the on line service record . Can I be sure the recall work was done ? Should it have been recorded .

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346323#Comment_119346323

Recall work wouldn't be shown on the invoice and isn't a service issue. It's quite normal for recall work to be done at a service before a general recall is issued.

goochy

I would have thought distributors would be doing some sort of quality checks to make sure services are being logged. Forgetting to do it isn't really acceptable , you don't forget to charge the customer .

MrMusician18

There is no real motive here for the garage, but the car owner. A car owner that's minded to do this however will likely keep the invoices for the work anyway.

I keep the paper invoices but I also scan and mail the invoices to a single purpose email account which date and timestamps all the work too. When I sell my vehicle, I'll give the new owner the email address and password.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/115910505#Comment_115910505

Yes, but a customer like myself is going to check the service book for the stamp before leaving the garage whereas I wouldn't have a clue regarding any digital record.

averyon

It's all about trust , mercedes ireland tell me there is a recall , my dealer after a 5 hour wait tells me it was done back in June . I do keep all invoices , and expect that the recall will be recorded . Am going to call another main dealer Monday and see if they will accept the car for the recall using the vin number . Thanks for comments .

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346629#Comment_119346629

Typically after recall work the dealer gets customer to sign the paperwork, but they don't give the customer a copy. The paperwork with the customer signature is so they can claim the labor from the manufacturer to prove the recall work is done. The person paying for the work to be done is the manufacturer not the customer. May not happen in all brands. It's common for recalls to be done during servicing.

In terms of service records I doubt there is money in creating a service, maybe a cheap worldwide system for back street garages to produce some sort of limited history from their system linked to billing and booking system, but I assume similar systems exist such as used motor factors where they look up vehicle details based on car registration. Most back street garages have access to such a system if over the phone to local motor factors. I know these systems have various price tiers, as in if you want to link your stock of car parts to a website with vehicle registration look.up.its more expensive than just a basic motor factor system. I presume they have some sort of a link back to most car manufacturer systems and pay a fee for access to "as built" manufacturer data. I do know the wrong data is often provided so they give out the wrong part compared to official dealers.

bucketybuck

I know the OP is old now, but as somebody who came from independent garages and moved into main dealers, there is no chance in hell that I am letting a third party have access to our dealer management systems.

From the IT standpoint alone I can think of multiple problems.

If the OP wanted to buy the info legally then it might be considered, but trust me, the price it would take for it to be worthwhile to me, would very likely make the OP's business unfeasible anyway.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346323#Comment_119346323

Consider it though, you did not pay for that recall, so why should it be on your invoice?

And I am not familiar with Mercedes, but does their online service record only include service work? Or does it include all jobs done? Because there is a difference there, and I have seen records that depending on your access will only display actual service items and leave out all the warranty repairs, for various reasons. Again, the manufacturer paid for those warranty repairs, they do have some say in what is made available.