Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Mrsmum

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That decision could possibly lead to mas outbreaks in hospitals. Total and utter sh!tshow.

Some time back when Belgium was in alot of trouble with Covid ( not sure how they are now) there was a report on the radio and they were saying healthcare workers there with Covid but feeling ok were being brought back in to work with Covid patients, such was the need for them. I remember thinking it was mad but I guess needs must.

wirelessdude01

Mrsmum wrote: »

Some time back when Belgium was in alot of trouble with Covid ( not sure how they are now) there was a report on the radio and they were saying healthcare workers there with Covid but feeling ok were being brought back in to work with Covid patients, such was the need for them. I remember thinking it was mad but I guess needs must.

Part of the reason why NI is in such trouble is that they did this a while back. Resulted in even more medical staff not being available. Double edged sword.

Lillyfae

mcsean2163 wrote: »

It's a very small fraction that have both parents as frontline workers. From the stories I've heard I'm sure something could be done to accommodate them and I'm sure it would be much appreciated. In my experience, frontline workers are incredibly professional but I wonder how they'd feel the next time they have to treat a teacher.

How do you know that there's only a small portion? There could potentially be a lot in this situation. The "something" you're referring to is probably to put them on opposite shifts so there's always someone at home with the children- apart from this how do you expect they be accomodated?

Mrsmum

mcsean2163 wrote: »

It's a very small fraction that have both parents as frontline workers. From the stories I've heard I'm sure something could be done to accommodate them and I'm sure it would be much appreciated. In my experience, frontline workers are incredibly professional but I wonder how they'd feel the next time they have to treat a teacher.

It's a problem because we need these people so badly at work and they themselves are amazingly self sacrificing but providing childcare could put other people at risk. It's like taking one burden from them but maybe causing another. One to one childcare was probably the way to go and should have been provided for situations where both are frontline workers.

mcsean2163

Lillyfae wrote: »

How do you know that there's only a small portion? There could potentially be a lot in this situation. The "something" you're referring to is probably to put them on opposite shifts so there's always someone at home with the children- apart from this how do you expect they be accomodated?

How do you know that there's only a small portion?

Most people in Ireland do not work in hospitals.

how do you expect they be accomodated?

Are you seriously asking me that question? You don't know?

Lillyfae

mcsean2163 wrote: »

How do you know that there's only a small portion?

Most people in Ireland do not work in hospitals.

how do you expect they be accomodated?

Are you seriously asking me that question? You don't know?

You don't know either. There are a huge amount of people working in hospitals, police, supermarkets, nursing homes and so on. All front line, shift workers. They can't move out a deadline or delegate something so that they can stay home to teach their children at the moment. They should be accommodated by opening schools to the children of frontline workers.

khalessi

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I. In my experience, frontline workers are incredibly professional but I wonder how they'd feel the next time they have to treat a teacher.

Short answer wouldnt bother them.

As you point out nurses like teachers are professionals, and according to my ex nursing colleagues, they are fed up being compared to teachers and according to my current teaching colleagues, they are also fed up being compared to nurses.

Neither sensibly enough see the other as competition, as they both think only stupid people try to compare both very different professions to win an argument and score points

As a nurse we never look at professions when treating people as we treat everyone from judges to rapists and murderers all get equal treatment.

By the way thank you for saying teachers are extremely professional because our Taoiseach constanlty refers to teachers as frontline workers

khalessi

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Do you think it's safe to work in a hospital? The amount contracting covid19 is appalling and to add insult to injury there is no educational/ school support for frontline healthcare workers that are working to save lives

Just wondering why you think nurses need further education? Surely they are qualified enough to do the job.

hesaidshesaid

mcsean2163 wrote: »

It's a very small fraction that have both parents as frontline workers. From the stories I've heard I'm sure something could be done to accommodate them and I'm sure it would be much appreciated. In my experience, frontline workers are incredibly professional but I wonder how they'd feel the next time they have to treat a teacher.

I think you have a point here to be honest. If things are so bad in hospitals that HCWs who are close contacts are being called into work, then it absolutely stands to reason that provision should be made for their children.

However, teachers don't get to decide whether or how this happens. Schools, principals, teachers - we are just part of a system, and never has this been more evident than during this pandemic. Schools, principals, teachers - none of them have individual authority to make decisions for their schools and students. The school in Claremorris (one of many) which was forced by the DES to reopen despite escalating case numbers and inadequate staff proves this.

Yes we have unions. We can email them, they can lobby government on our behalf. But ultimately the government makes the decisions. Anyone who thinks that the schools didn't open for LC or children with special educational needs because of lobbying from the unions is frankly deluded. There was a tsunami of public opinion from parents and LC students themselves which went contrary to re-opening. CMO advised against it. It is particularly difficult to social distance from children with SEN, teachers and SNAs would have ended up out sick. The new variant had arrived and case numbers were escalating. Public health had declared they were not able to test close contacts in workplaces such as schools. Had we opened for even that cohort on Monday, who knows where would be in 2 weeks time?

None of this has anything to do with the unions. In fact, the head of the INTO wrote and published a letter to the DES late one night during the Christmas holidays advising them to keep schools closed until this Monday. The next morning the government announced that this was their plan. I will leave it to you to figure out which of these actually happened first behind closed doors. The DES, especially with Norma at the helm, reigns supreme.

So while I completely agree that something should be done for families with two HCWs as parents, I am unsure of the best way to provide this. But I am absolutely sure that as teachers we will not be asked by the Department of Education for our input into any decisions.

mcsean2163

Lillyfae wrote: »

You don't know either. There are a huge amount of people working in hospitals, police, supermarkets, nursing homes and so on. All front line, shift workers. They can't move out a deadline or delegate something so that they can stay home to teach their children at the moment. They should be accommodated by opening schools to the children of frontline workers.

Tbh, I'm focused on the frontline hospital workers who are working to save the lives of covid19 patients and receiving no support.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/554617/hospital-employment-in-ireland/

69,000

Say half have children of school age and if those, 20% have are both working in the same profession. That's around 3,500 families nationally.

I agree, they should be accommodated. It's shocking. Rather than step forward and answer irelands call teachers have hid behind their unions and ran away, abandoning the families of frontline hospital workers ...again.

hesaidshesaid

khalessi wrote: »

Just wondering why you think nurses need further education? Surely they are qualified enough to do the job.

Khalessi I think he means support for them considering they have kids in school rather than further education for nurses.

khalessi

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Khalessi I think he means support for them considering they have kids in school rather than further education for nurses.

I was being facetious. I know what he meant but written incorrectly when what he means is childcare, a different issue altogether.

hesaidshesaid

khalessi wrote: »

I was being facetious. I know what he meant but written incorrectly when what he means is childcare, a different issue altogether.

Yes. But I agree with mcsean that there should be some childcare support for those healthcare workers. As I said, I don't know who should provide it. All the teachers I know are flat out online, I've been at it all day and still loads of corrections to do.

Maybe the inspectorate could make themselves available? Rather than wasting people's time 'inspecting' online provision.

khalessi

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Yes. But I agree with mcsean that there should be some childcare support for those healthcare workers. As I said, I don't know who should provide it. All the teachers I know are flat out online, I've been at it all day and still loads of corrections to do.

Maybe the inspectorate could make themselves available? Rather than wasting people's time 'inspecting' online provision.

I know am teaching here too and it is a very long day between being online, correcting work, searching for appropriate videos to help explain subjects and creating worksheets but his point is incorrect as education school supports are not childcare.

Would be great if Inspectorate did that but probably not enough to go around.

Lillyfae

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Tbh, I'm focused on the frontline hospital workers who are working to save the lives of covid19 patients and receiving no support.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/554617/hospital-employment-in-ireland/

69,000

Say half have children of school age and if those, 20% have are both working in the same profession. That's around 3,500 families nationally.

I agree, they should be accommodated. It's shocking.

This is far too much information to assume- but I do agree with your overall point.

JimmyVik

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Tbh, I'm focused on the frontline hospital workers who are working to save the lives of covid19 patients and receiving no support.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/554617/hospital-employment-in-ireland/

69,000

Say half have children of school age and if those, 20% have are both working in the same profession. That's around 3,500 families nationally.

I agree, they should be accommodated. It's shocking. Rather than step forward and answer irelands call teachers have hid behind their unions and ran away, abandoning the families of frontline hospital workers ...again.

Im pretty sure if a system was put in place to mind the children of healthcare workers that teachers would probably volunteer. Hell I would volunteer myself if it helped.


It is up to our government to put such things in place. You should be taking it up with them.


Coming on to a message board and insulting people and entire professions is not going to help. You need to go to the government.


I think your red mist has clouded your judgement. And you are not thinking clearly at all at all.


As my mother says to us. You are like a little bucket of rage there. Cop yourself on and get out of your fantasy world thats against you.

wirelessdude01

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I wonder how they'd feel the next time they have to treat a teacher.

I would expect the same way I would to a parent who is a bit of 'mare'. You just do your job.

Really don't see the point of what you just typed. Assume you belong to that group who think we should be put on the PUP because we are working from home?

mcsean2163

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I would expect the same way I would to a parent is a bit of 'mare'. You just do your job.

Really don't see the point of what you just typed. Assume you belong to that group who think we should be put on the PUP because we are working from home?

You're right, it was a stupid jab.

mcsean2163

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im pretty sure if a system was put in place to mind the children of healthcare workers that teachers would probably volunteer. Hell I would volunteer myself if it helped.


It is up to our government to put such things in place. You should be taking it up with them.


Coming on to a message board and insulting people and entire professions is not going to help. You need to go to the government.


I think your red mist has clouded your judgement. And you are not thinking clearly at all at all.


As my mother says to us. You are like a little bucket of rage there. Cop yourself on and get out of your fantasy world thats against you.

I logged in and the first post I saw was protect teachers. I guess it set me off.

In the first lockdown my partner worked over 20 days in a row and we're lucky because I don't work in frontline hospitals although my job was essential work. I lost that job because I chose to mind the kids and having just found and started a job again I'm nearly back in the same boat but so what.

I don't know how the many families we know are coping when both are hospital workers. I think it's awful there is absolutely no provision for people in their situation.

Have to say very impressed by the online support from our school this time around and in general have great admiration for the teachers our children have been through. Good luck all and apologies for going a bit over the top, government, I need to write to them, not here.

ninebeanrows

I would anticipate an announcement on 28 January that schools will reopen on 15th February, we need 2 more weeks to crush the virus, community transmission is still too high.

wirelessdude01

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

I would anticipate an announcement on 28 January that schools will reopen on 15th February, we need 2 more weeks to crush the virus, community transmission is still too high.

The 22nd. The 15th is midterm for the majority of primary schools who take the full week.

hesaidshesaid

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I logged in and the first post I saw was protect teachers. I guess it set me off.

In the first lockdown my partner worked over 20 days in a row and we're lucky because I don't work in frontline hospitals although my job was essential work. I lost that job because I chose to mind the kids and having just found and started a job again I'm nearly back in the same boat but so what.

I don't know how the many families we know are coping when both are hospital workers. I think it's awful there is absolutely no provision for people in their situation.

Have to say very impressed by the online support from our school this time around and in general have great admiration for the teachers our children have been through. Good luck all and apologies for going a bit over the top, government, I need to write to them, not here.

I think you may well be the first person on this forum to ever reconsider a statement they made. Fair play to you, you've reinstated my faith in boards!

I wish to God the DES and government in general would take a leaf out of that book and be ok with saying they are not going to get things right all the time. Instead we get this ongoing rhetoric of absolutes. There are no absolutes in a pandemic and pretending there are just leads to loss of trust and respect.

the kelt

Lillyfae wrote: »

This is far too much information to assume- but I do agree with your overall point.

You agreeing with a post bashing teachers, well theres a shock for everyone on this thread!

Lillyfae

the kelt wrote: »

You agreeing with a post bashing teachers, well theres a shock for everyone on this thread!

My apologies for not deleting that sentence when quoting but if you had read the discussion between the other poster and myself you might have realized the point I was referring to. Which wasn’t about teachers or unions. I’ve edited my post.

wirelessdude01

mcsean2163 wrote: »

You're right, it was a stupid jab.

I wouldn't classify it as stupid.

It should be filed under unnecessary and ignorant to both professions.

Locotastic

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I logged in and the first post I saw was protect teachers. I guess it set me off.

In the first lockdown my partner worked over 20 days in a row and we're lucky because I don't work in frontline hospitals although my job was essential work. I lost that job because I chose to mind the kids and having just found and started a job again I'm nearly back in the same boat but so what.

I don't know how the many families we know are coping when both are hospital workers. I think it's awful there is absolutely no provision for people in their situation.

Have to say very impressed by the online support from our school this time around and in general have great admiration for the teachers our children have been through. Good luck all and apologies for going a bit over the top, government, I need to write to them, not here.

No provision was ever made for those workers who we need the most right now, the country shut up shop at a minutes notice last March with no thought to the fact that essential healthcare workers might also be parents.

How has this not caused an outrage and how have their unions allowed it, on top of their current unenviable work environments? I guess it's because they are far too busy with doing the work they have to do right now.

And same story now again this January, no consideration made for those workers. You have every right to be annoyed.

khalessi

Locotastic wrote: »

No provision was ever made for those workers who we need the most right now, the country shut up shop at a minutes notice last March with no thought to the fact that essential healthcare workers might also be parents.

How has this not caused an outrage and how have their unions allowed it, on top of their current unenviable work environments? I guess it's because they are far too busy with doing the work they have to do right now.

And same story now again this January, no consideration made for those workers. You have every right to be annoyed.

Yes it is a disgrace childcare was not sought for HCWs, Leo and Simon were supposed to sort it during the last lockdown but they fecked up. It is the government people should be riled at about this, not picking certain professions and giving out they aren't doing it.

vid36

It is pure speculation at this point, but I think the Leaving Certs will be back first in early February. Everyone else after the mid-term.

Stateofyou

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I do indeed. I know my wife is frontline healthcare but we're not too bad as we'll still have a salary if I'm fired for having to take time off, assuming my wife doesn't die from covid19.

I know other other families with two doctors or a nurse and a doctor. My heart goes out to them as they've been abandoned by the educational system and teachers. Nothing for frontline staff, nothing for special needs. Teachers first.

WTF is wrong with your logical thinking in that post there? It's community and hospitals first. As obviously 1million + students and staff mixing are going to affect what happens on a broader scale. Your wife is a frontline healthcare worker and you can't see that schools closing is to protect the health care system primarily? FFS.

Stateofyou

mcsean2163 wrote: »

It's a very small fraction that have both parents as frontline workers. From the stories I've heard I'm sure something could be done to accommodate them and I'm sure it would be much appreciated. In my experience, frontline workers are incredibly professional but I wonder how they'd feel the next time they have to treat a teacher.

Maybe it's on the GOVERNMENT not retaining and hiring enough health care workers year after year to staff our hospitals? It's not the fault of teachers, who have families too, who have to stay home and teach remotely while minding their own families. You need to direct your anger and begrudgery to the proper place - the people in charge who haven't managed the HSE well enough, going back decades now. But surely you know that, seeing as your wife is a HCW.